Okay I gave it a go and this is what it looks like to me, Account # 30965 was in the names of Robert McDowell and Charles McDowell Robert was born in 1812 in Longford Clombroney Ireland, he arrived in the US in 1844 per "Artmeker or Aetmeher" The spelling is questionable. Robert is a Porter he lived at 10th St between 2nd / 3rd Ave in South Brooklyn. his wife is Eliz Bivens (?) and he has 3 children. The transaction date was June 30, 1862. Charles McDowell is a laborer born 1816 in Longford, arrived here in what looks like 1861 per "North America", his wife is Catherine Soden. Based on the record all the McDowells were living together...based on birth years and the same place of birth I would hazzard a guess that they are close relatives. Hope this is of some help. Diane K

Thank you, Frank! ...eek....7 months and several phone calls. Ok, I'll call again to both of them. I always do send them a nice donation along with a SASE, I hate taking advantage of them like that. So ok...I can see I have my work cut out for me in calling. They should just computerize it and milk it like the rest of the genealogy sources lol Thanks again! Liz In a message dated 5/5/2005 4:04:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > > > If you request something from the Archives Office NYC, you have to pay > whether they find a record or not. Many of the people doing the searches at > the church are volunteers doing many things besides looking through the > registers. Keep in mind, many of these parishes are quite poor &can use the > money. > >

You must always make a donation to the church with your requests for information. Some have regular fees already established. 7 months is not so long. I have waited over a year and had to call with a change of address once. One time I called just to make sure they got the request and I was told that it was a very busy time of year because of the school and they would get to it. We are all at their mercy. Depending on the nature of my request I start with $20.00 and work my way up. It has never been refused and eventually I do think I get my monies worth. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: Frank McCullough [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 4:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Church Response time I've requested searches at approx. 7 RC Churches in Manhattan & the Bronx. I've only had a real problem with 1...St. Mary's on the Lower East Side. They got me the info I was looking for but it took 3 phone calls and about 7 months. Something I do that I think helps, is make a donation to the church with the request. This is of course a "no strings attached" donation and I make it clear I'll pay additional if they find my records and request additional payment. I believe it is an inducement to them to make my search and of course as a donation it is tax deductible to me. If you request something from the Archives Office NYC, you have to pay whether they find a record or not. Many of the people doing the searches at the church are volunteers doing many things besides looking through the registers. Keep in mind, many of these parishes are quite poor & can use the money. Frank McCullough Calif. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:08 PM Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Church Response time > > I've written to St. Peter's Church in the Bronx and Church of the > Transfiguration on Mott Street, both letters were written about a month > ago. I haven't heard back from either one and I'm wondering if they even > answer these requests. Has anyone had any luck with either one of them? > > I'd appreciate hearing about your experience with them (to give me hope > that I might someday hear back!) > > Liz > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > If you will be away for a few days, please unsub from the list to keep > yourself from bouncing off. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== If you will be away for a few days, please unsub from the list to keep yourself from bouncing off. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Hi! I know I got the information about the website for the Emigrant Bank records on this list. I accessed it when the URL was posted and got two hits on my Robert McDowell. The problem is I can't read the entries! Would someone be kind enough to put his name in and see if they can read the two entries for him. He's a porter (I think) and lists his wife as Eliza and 3 children. That would fit with the family. There are also other names added to his entry. Thank you very much! Barbara

I've written to St. Peter's Church in the Bronx and Church of the Transfiguration on Mott Street, both letters were written about a month ago. I haven't heard back from either one and I'm wondering if they even answer these requests. Has anyone had any luck with either one of them? I'd appreciate hearing about your experience with them (to give me hope that I might someday hear back!) Liz

Hi Barbara, Are you accessing the Emigrant Bank records thru Ancestry or do you have another website? USgenexchange has a website but it has been "closed" so they say for the past month. I would love to search for records at the bank but I don't have ancestry. Thanks Mary > Hi! > I know I got the information about the website for the Emigrant Bank records > on this list. I accessed it when the URL was posted and got two hits on my > Robert McDowell. The problem is I can't read the entries! Would someone be > kind enough to put his name in and see if they can read the two entries for > him. He's a porter (I think) and lists his wife as Eliza and 3 children. > That would fit with the family. There are also other names added to his entry. > Thank you very much! > Barbara > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > List Administrators: > Tracy Cassidy [email protected] > Jim McCarthy [email protected] > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

I've requested searches at approx. 7 RC Churches in Manhattan & the Bronx. I've only had a real problem with 1...St. Mary's on the Lower East Side. They got me the info I was looking for but it took 3 phone calls and about 7 months. Something I do that I think helps, is make a donation to the church with the request. This is of course a "no strings attached" donation and I make it clear I'll pay additional if they find my records and request additional payment. I believe it is an inducement to them to make my search and of course as a donation it is tax deductible to me. If you request something from the Archives Office NYC, you have to pay whether they find a record or not. Many of the people doing the searches at the church are volunteers doing many things besides looking through the registers. Keep in mind, many of these parishes are quite poor & can use the money. Frank McCullough Calif. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:08 PM Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Church Response time > > I've written to St. Peter's Church in the Bronx and Church of the > Transfiguration on Mott Street, both letters were written about a month > ago. I haven't heard back from either one and I'm wondering if they even > answer these requests. Has anyone had any luck with either one of them? > > I'd appreciate hearing about your experience with them (to give me hope > that I might someday hear back!) > > Liz > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > If you will be away for a few days, please unsub from the list to keep > yourself from bouncing off. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Have been watching the replies to George Alexander's request for ideas on the 1895 marriage of his ancestors and have this to suggest. If the couple were Roman Catholic, and married in 1895, it is unlikely there would be a civil record. All of my RC relatives who married before 1900 in NYC did not record a marriage, if they even got a "license" to marry, as it was the Church's position, (unchallenged in a heavily Irish RC City) that marriage was a sacrament between a man, a woman, and their God. Not the State's business. Priest's who officiated at the marriage ceremony routinely refused to return the evidence of the marriage to the civil authorities. Things changed after 1900, but I have a few relatives whose marriages in the early 20th C. I can only prove by a Church record. If the only record is the Church record, it becomes necessary to find the Church and that can get troublesome. Customarily, the wedding was in the bride's parish, but in mid 19th C New York, crossing parish lines to be wed by a favorite priest was not uncommon. In my own case, I have been searching for the c. 1854 marriage of my great grandparents who lived in St. Peter's Barclay Street Parish in Lower Manhattan and have been unable to find a record. Their children were all baptized at that Church, but there is no marriage. I have requested marriage information from the surrounding parishes with no luck after years of looking. The only thing I know for sure is that they had 8 children and appear to have been married in NY as they emigrated from Ireland 2 years apart, she coming in first. My thoughts this AM. Sheila MacAvoy Block

At times John and Jeremiah are interchangeable. It could be that that is the name he was commonly called especially if there is more than one Jeremiah in the family. -----Original Message----- From: bob ryan [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Re: marriage certificates When I got a copy of my grandparents marriage certificate it listed my grandmother's fathers name as John. I later found out it was Jeremiah. I assume that my grandfather applied for the license and didn't her the right name so he just said the first name he thought of. Records were probably one of his least concerns. Bob Ryan Rhode Island ----- Original Message ----- From: "L.J. Wolfe" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Re: marriage certificates >I don't know that this applies to NYC, but in some places you go to a >county office to get your license so there are many marriages that happen >in cities other than the one where the paperwork was filled out :-). > > My $.02, > Lorena /|\ > Searching for: F l a n a g a n (NY state), F l o r i o, C o c c i a, > M a r t i n g a n o; F o l e y, F e r g u s o n, M o r g a n > <http://silver-gateway.com/fam-tree/> > > At 06:53 PM 5/3/05, you wrote: >>My own marriage certificate was issued in the NY town where I and my >>fiancé worked not where we lived. It was easier to apply at lunch time in >>the city hall where we worked. I don't remember any special rules about >>where in the state you had to apply and where you lived. Barbara >> >>[email protected] wrote: >> >>>Lucy, >>>Hmmm...that's a thought. But she did have to sign it so why wouldn't he >>>have waited until he saw her? It was filed in the Bronx. I'll have to >>>look at it again to see who may have filled it out. Just thinking out >>>loud. >>>Thanks. >>>Nora > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Please don't flame anyone on the list. If you do, you will be unsubbed. > If you are flamed, please contact the list admin privately. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== To post a message to the Irish-New-York-City list, please send your email to: [email protected] ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/t our.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

I sent 2 messages to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY and they both ended up in my delete box. Do you know why this happened? Bob Ryan [email protected]

When I got a copy of my grandparents marriage certificate it listed my grandmother's fathers name as John. I later found out it was Jeremiah. I assume that my grandfather applied for the license and didn't her the right name so he just said the first name he thought of. Records were probably one of his least concerns. Bob Ryan Rhode Island ----- Original Message ----- From: "L.J. Wolfe" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Re: marriage certificates >I don't know that this applies to NYC, but in some places you go to a >county office to get your license so there are many marriages that happen >in cities other than the one where the paperwork was filled out :-). > > My $.02, > Lorena /|\ > Searching for: F l a n a g a n (NY state), F l o r i o, C o c c i a, > M a r t i n g a n o; F o l e y, F e r g u s o n, M o r g a n > <http://silver-gateway.com/fam-tree/> > > At 06:53 PM 5/3/05, you wrote: >>My own marriage certificate was issued in the NY town where I and my >>fiancé worked not where we lived. It was easier to apply at lunch time in >>the city hall where we worked. I don't remember any special rules about >>where in the state you had to apply and where you lived. Barbara >> >>[email protected] wrote: >> >>>Lucy, >>>Hmmm...that's a thought. But she did have to sign it so why wouldn't he >>>have waited until he saw her? It was filed in the Bronx. I'll have to >>>look at it again to see who may have filled it out. Just thinking out >>>loud. >>>Thanks. >>>Nora > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Please don't flame anyone on the list. If you do, you will be unsubbed. > If you are flamed, please contact the list admin privately. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Hello List, Does anyone have Directories of NYC for the 1870s that could look up something for me ??? Thank you. Frank

I was just wondering if the rules were different in 1942. My fiance and I filed in Mount Vernon in 1974. Neither of us lived or worked there. I lived and worked in the Bronx and my hubby-to-be lived in Queens and worked in Manhattan. Of course, my mother may have quit her job right before the wedding and was living there. Thanks for your comments, Barbara. Nora In a message dated 5/4/2005 10:01:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Barb F [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes: My own marriage certificate was issued in the NY town where I and my=20 fianc=E9 worked not where we lived. It was easier to apply at lunch time= =20 in the city hall where we worked. I don't remember any special rules=20 about where in the state you had to apply and where you lived. Barbara

Maureen, The application was typed and it doesn't say any thing about the informants but the second page was filled out by the priest (same priest that married my hubby and me in 1974. He was a family friend). I recognized my parents' and the priest's handwriting. Oh well, I'll probably never find out. Thanks for your input. Nora In a message dated 5/4/2005 10:01:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MJ Mann [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) writes: Nora, My grandparents were married in NYC. I obtained both the license & cert. I KNOW my grandfather didn't fill it out. I'm not that familiar with my grandmother's handwriting (she died when I was 8), but the writing doesn't look anything like her signature. .... I'm guessing that the clerk filled out license, priest at least part of the cert, and they signed when/where necessary. Just an idea, Maureen

I don't know that this applies to NYC, but in some places you go to a county office to get your license so there are many marriages that happen in cities other than the one where the paperwork was filled out :-). My $.02, Lorena /|\ Searching for: F l a n a g a n (NY state), F l o r i o, C o c c i a, M a r t i n g a n o; F o l e y, F e r g u s o n, M o r g a n <http://silver-gateway.com/fam-tree/> At 06:53 PM 5/3/05, you wrote: >My own marriage certificate was issued in the NY town where I and my fiancé worked not where we lived. It was easier to apply at lunch time in the city hall where we worked. I don't remember any special rules about where in the state you had to apply and where you lived. Barbara > >[email protected] wrote: > >>Lucy, >>Hmmm...that's a thought. But she did have to sign it so why wouldn't he have waited until he saw her? It was filed in the Bronx. I'll have to look at it again to see who may have filled it out. Just thinking out loud. >>Thanks. >>Nora

Nora, My grandparents were married in NYC. I obtained both the license & cert. I KNOW my grandfather didn't fill it out. I'm not that familiar with my grandmother's handwriting (she died when I was 8), but the writing doesn't look anything like her signature. .... I'm guessing that the clerk filled out license, priest at least part of the cert, and they signed when/where necessary. Just an idea, Maureen On 5/2/05, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Lucy, > > Hmmm...that's a thought. But she did have to sign it so why wouldn't he > have > waited until he saw her? It was filed in the Bronx. I'll have to look at > it > again to see who may have filled it out. Just thinking out loud. > > Thanks. > Nora > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== >

My own marriage certificate was issued in the NY town where I and my fiancé worked not where we lived. It was easier to apply at lunch time in the city hall where we worked. I don't remember any special rules about where in the state you had to apply and where you lived. Barbara [email protected] wrote: > >Lucy, > >Hmmm...that's a thought. But she did have to sign it so why wouldn't he have >waited until he saw her? It was filed in the Bronx. I'll have to look at it >again to see who may have filled it out. Just thinking out loud. > >Thanks. >Nora > > > > >

Re: Nora FitzGerald's and Lucita's posts about parents/ancestors obtaining marriage licenses in one place [e.g., Mt. Vernon] but getting married in another [e.g., The Bronx], is it possible that people might have done the same thing back in the late 1800s? I've had absolutely no luck finding my grandparents' marriage application or license in Brooklyn and Manhattan, circa 1894 or 1895. Both were born in Manhattan and raised their children [including my late father] in Brooklyn, and so I've just assumed they got their license and their vows in one or the other of those boroughs. Both the birth of their first child, my long-deceased aunt, in 1895, and the number of years they claimed to have been married in the 1900 U.S. Census [five], suggest my grandparents married in 1895. A few years ago, on the "freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~blkyn/Marriage" website, I found a listing for a marriage certificate for a "Mary Boyle," my grandmother's maiden name, and a "spouse unknown" in Brooklyn. That hint led nowhere and I've been unable to resurrect that "freepages" site; it appears to have evaporated. Is it possible they applied for a license in Queens, The Bronx, Staten Island or some other NY locale? And why would the groom be listed as "unknown"? Seems to me if my grandmother was the applicant, she certainly knew the name of her intended husband [and my eventual grandfather, Samuel Alexander], so who would enter "spouse unknown"? I find it puzzling, so if anyone can shed light on the matter, I'd be grateful. [Oddly enough, I was able to find my great-grandparents marriage license in Manhattan]. Incidentally, several subscribers responded to my plea for a description of the buildings now standing at certain addresses on Grove, Gansevoort, West 18th and West 25th Streets in Manhattan, all sites where my grandparents and great-grandparents once lived, and said they'd let me know what's there today. So far, I haven't heard anything from anyone. I'd still appreciate any information. Best Regards, George Alexander

In what jurisdiction would a death / marriage / birth on Governor's Island be recorded - circa 1920s? It was a busy U.S. Army post. Manhattan? Thanks. **** All outgoing mail scanned by Norton Anti-virus ****

Hi Nora, > Just me thinking out loud . . . > Maybe your Mom moved from Manhattan to the new apartment in the Bronx before they got married, so she used that address? This way she could start buying or moving furniture and boxes into it? And then they still got married at the church in Manhattan because that had been her 'parish'? > Maybe she told you that she lived in Manhattan (probably with her parents) because back then, that's what single girls were expected to do, and not live on their own. My Mom would have told me the same thing! > Before I got married in 1966, I rented our first apartment on Sept 1st, but we weren't getting married until the 24th. He lived with 2 other guys in a rented home out on LI, and I still lived at home - neither one of us moving in the apartment until after the marriage. And that was in 1966 - not the 40's! > Kathleen New Canaan, CT. > From: [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) Subject: marriage certificates Hi listers, Just want to make a comment on my experience with finding my parents' marriage certificate. My parents were married Feb 11, 1942 at St. Paul the Apostle Church around 59th Street in Manhattan. I always knew that so when I tried to get a copy of the marriage certificate I was surprised when I got back a "no certificate was found". I knew my mother was living in Manhattan at the time of the marriage so what was the issue? I suggested that a search should be done in the Bronx since that's were they lived after the marriage. Imagine my surprise when I received the certificate that my mother had as her address was the first apartment she and my father had in the Bronx. When I was getting married in the Bronx in 1974, my future husband and I applied for our marriage license in Mount Vernon, NY even though I lived in the Bronx. I had put down my Bronx address. It's a state license so my address shouldn't have mattered and it didn't. My question is, in the early 1940s did you have to live in the boro where you applied for the marriage license? I'm just trying to understand why my mother put the Bronx address on the marriage application and not her Manhattan address. Nora Hopkins FitzGerald