Wendy, I live in South Dakota, in the Black Hills outside of Deadwood and their in NO resource center here so I rely heavly on the internet. I have tried getting things inter-library loan but it doesn't always work out. The nearest city of decent is Denver and it is about 6 hours away. But, thank you for the suggestion. Yes, please send the census for Michael and Mary. I know they had seven children with only two surviving. I was told this by family but then I saw it on a census for Mary who was living with her daughter Alice's family. I was told some children died on the voyage over from Ireland but I am not sure. James and Alice where the two that survived to adulthood and they were born in 1871 and 1880, after the children you mentioned. According to the ships records they came with no children or at least arrived with no children. Would it say on the ships records (below) if they traveled with children but the children died before arrival? I also found Whitehall St on a map, it is very near the Staten Island Ferry. I take it that is NYC Manhatten area. Do you know what kind of area it was? Or a knickname for the area? 37 Whitehall Street was where Michael and Mary lived when Michael got his Naturalization Papers in October 1868. His daughter Alice married Eli Kellem who lived at 37 Whitehall. Eli's father signed the Naturalization papers. I thought or was told Kellem was a German name but when I did a look-up there were a lot of Kellem's in Ireland. The 1900 census, Brooklyn, Ward 29, Ft Hamilton Ave in NY has the following entry: Eli A. Kellem, 29 yrs old, born Sept 1870 in NJ, Father born in NJ, mother born in SC, occupation-pipe fitter Alice F., wife, 28 yrs old, born Dec 1871 in NY, father born in Ireland, mother born in Ireland, married for 8 yrs, had 8 children with 3 living Alice F., daughter, age 6, born Oct 1893 in NY Albert J., son, age 3, born Nov 1896 in NY Ethel M., daughter, age 1, born Oct 1898 Mary E. (Dineen) O'Donnell, mother-in-law, age 58, born April 1842 in Ireland, father born in Ireland, mother born in Ireland, widow, had 7 children with 2 living; to the United States in 1863, in this county for 37 years. From what I have found out, Michael and Mary came from Mulnamin Beg, Inishkeel Parish, County Donegal. Irish to America, 1846-1865 O'Donnell, Michael Age : 25 O'Donnell, Mary Age : 23 Country of Origin : Ireland Date of Arrival : May 20, 1863 Final Destination : USA Port of Debarkation : New York Ship's Name : Bridgewater Manifest ID Number : 901923 Port of Embarkation : Liverpool Purpose for Travel : Staying in USA, but not a citizen of USA Mode of Travel : Steerage I couldn't find any couple, named either Michael/Mary or James/Mary arriving in the US with any children :-( Lindel Thank you so much for your time and effort! Kathleen O'Donnell Grone >>>I can't help you with the marriage lookup, you need to go to the baptism records and marriage records and that is by going to the family resource center in your area and looking them up. You need to kind of know where they were born and married in. In 1870, there is a Michael and Mary who had children in New York. He was a shoemaker and the children were Kate, Thomas & William. Kate and Thomas were born in Ireland and William who was only 1 was born in New York. If these are the ones, I can send you the census image. If James was born in 1881, there is a possible social security for him on the death record and it would give you more information. Wendy Thank you so much! Kathleen For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of peace shall not be removed, says the LORD, who has compassion on you. Isaiah 54:10 --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online & more. Check it out!

I thought this was a bit interesting- although I would like to learn more.NY : MANHATTAN : HELL'S KITCHEN LOCATIONThe West Side of Manhattan, between 39th and 59th streets, west of 8th avenue. The neighborhood is sometimes called "Clinton". POPULATION / CROWDTraditionally a blue-collar neighborhood, Hell's Kitchen has been gentrifying for decades now. At this point it's safe to say the typical resident is either a white-collar professional or a relatively successful actor. Hell's Kitchen does have a significant gay community, but nowhere near as visible as in the West Village or Chelsea. SAFETYThings have changed since the days when Irish gangs ruled Hell's Kitchen. Nowadays, apart from the sketchy Port Authority scene (west and south of 42nd street), the neighborhood is safe. FOODA number of restaurants along 9th avenue and on "Restaurant Row" (West 46th street). Many cheap ethnic eats along with classy restaurant catering to monied theatergoers. Perhaps of the former categ! ory, "Uncle Vanya" is one of my personal favorites. SYNOPSISHell's Kitchen retains much of its unpolished charm, but the proximity of Times Square, Lincoln Tunnel, Port Authority Bus Terminal and Broadway all make it a busy commercial neighborhood - often unpleasantly so. ________________________ Anyone read this book? Is it worth reading? Thank you! The Westies : inside the Hell's Kitchen Irish mob By:T J EnglishType:English : Book : Non-fictionPublisher:New York : Putnam, ©1990.ISBN:0399135405 Subjects:Westies (Gang) -- History. | Gangs -- History. -- New York (State) -- New York | Irish American criminals -- History. -- New York (State) -- New York | Hell's Kitchen (New York, N.Y.) For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of peace shall not be removed, says the LORD, who has compassion on you. Isaiah 54:10 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

My Kerner family lived on Elm Street. I am told this was near "Hell's Kitchen". Where exactly is "Hell's Kitchen"? My Michael and Mary Dineen O'Donnell's lived at 37 Whitehall for a time (1860's-1870's) - this was listed on the Naturalization paper. Later they moved to Hamilton Ave. 1900 Census has them at - Ward 29, Ft Hamilton Ave in NY I have Rufus Creen, father of Isabell M. Creen O'Donnell renting at 65 Green Street Brooklyn. Charlotte hadn't divorced him yet. 1910 Census There is an Elm Ave and an Elm Place in Brooklyn, do not see an Elm Place in Manhattan but that does mean it was not there is 1860ish. I believe Hell's Kitchen is Manhattan - west side up around 59th St. Try googling it and you may get a better perspective. I just have Elm St.? At the following site you can get a glimpse of a house on Elm circa 1880 and an old map. Click here: sgreenfield Elm Avenue is close to Brooklyn College which is near Flatbush. Elm Place is in downtown Brooklyn. If you have any other information about this address, I could help you place it more closely. The only Whitehall I know is in lower Manhattan near Battery Park and Staten Island Ferry. The recruiting station 1876 my Mulvey's lived at 89 Hamilton Avenue. (6th Ward) James J. O'D lived on Hoyt Street. I was told this was a horrible area as well - tenement housing. His first wife, Mary Harrigan O'D - died there (my great grandmother). Later in life he moved to 265 89th Street in Brooklyn. He was born on Presidents Street. It was not a great area, very poor, very Irish. I would say that 89th St was quite a step up. My father was born at 106 President St in 1903. and later 17 Hausman Street, Brooklyn, NY What kind of Neighborhood was Flatbush? My grandfather Lester was born there. Was President St in Flatbush? President Street is Red Hook. Is this in Brooklyn? What time frame are you talking about for Flatbush. My folks came to Flatbush from Ireland in 1860. And I lived there until 1970 s0 I know a lot about Flatbush. Do you know where in Flatbush the family lived. On his Soc Sec application he put Flatbush, Brooklyn, NY. His wife Isabell Creen lists 59th Street as one of their addresses Thank you for your time and trouble! Kathleen For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of peace shall not be removed, says the LORD, who has compassion on you. Isaiah 54:10 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

The canal was dug around 1808 to drain the Collect, a nearby pond. the pond was drained and filled in by 1811- but, the canal and later sewer- remained untill 1820 when it was covered and paved. See "History of the City of New York" its origin, rise and progress. pub, 1877 Virginia native New Yorker in FL ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 3:54 AM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Canal Street > Yes, there was a canal there. > > But does anyone know the story behind the canal??? > > Now you know it couldn't be that easy! :) > > Take care, > Tracy > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY list admin > http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com > http://www.inyc.freeservers.com > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > To unsub, send an email with "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) to either: > [email protected] (List Version) > [email protected] (Digest Version) > You can also unsubscribe from the website: > http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

I was wondering if anyone can do marriage lookups for me in NY and Ireland. I also understand that sometimes in Ireland since they don't have birthcertificates for way back when you can sometimes from baptismal records? That would be grand as well. I would like to find a marriage for Michael and Mary E. Dineen O'Donnell - they were born in 1837 and 1842 so I figure they must have gotten married about 20 or so years later. They came to America in 1863 and I am pretty sure, but not positive they were married before they came. I would also like to find the marriage record for James J. O'Donnell and Mary Harrigan. He was born in 1881 and she is 1880, both in Brooklyn. I have an approx. marriage date of 1900. There first child was born 1905. A birth record for Mary Harrigan would be awesome as well, but I don't have a birthday- just year. Her father we think was John Harrigan. Thank you so much! Blessings, Kathleen O'Donnell Grone For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of peace shall not be removed, says the LORD, who has compassion on you. Isaiah 54:10 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

Can anyone tell me if the old Irish of New York City ( pre-potato famine) lived on the Upper East side of Manhatthan? Where Harlem is now? And was it supposed to be a fashionable place to live in the 1850's? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 10:54 PM Subject: IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-D Digest V05 #157

I was going through my records and realized that it may be helpful to post the following information. I hope someone will recognize an ancestor among the godparents and witnesses! The following marriages and baptisms all took place at Visitation BVM RC Church in Red Hook, Brooklyn. Take care, Tracy IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY list admin http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com http://www.inyc.freeservers.com March 27, 1912 Marriage: Thomas J. Cassidy & Mary Lynch Rev. Thomas Casey officiating Witnesses: Arthur Holton & Elizabeth Ryan January 7, 1900 Baptism of Emma Potts Lynch Rev. John P. Wilson officiating Sponsor: Sarah Dougherty (This baptism was part of Emma's conversion to Roman Catholicism.) February 24, 1901 Baptism of James Lynch Rev. Thomas J. Quinn officiating Sponsors: John Monahan & Mary Johnson November 2, 1899 Baptism of Joseph Lynch Rev. Thomas F. Farrell officiating Sponsor: Mary Johnson

Yes, there was a canal there. But does anyone know the story behind the canal??? Now you know it couldn't be that easy! :) Take care, Tracy IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY list admin http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com http://www.inyc.freeservers.com

My great-grandfather, Michael T. Murphy, was a marble polisher from Dublin, who came to NYC & lived very near where Empire State Building is now!

Tracy, ...because there was a canal there before it was filled-in! Vince ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 10:44 AM Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Canal Street > Just a little bit of a brain teaser to ease you into the weekend - > > How did Canal Street get its name? > > Good luck! > > Take care, > Tracy > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY list admin > http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com > http://www.inyc.freeservers.com > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > To post a message to the Irish-New-York-City list, please send your email to: > [email protected] > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >

In a message dated 6/10/2005 1:42:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Could you please let me know how you got in touch with Mark Collins. My > gr. > grandfather owned 5 tenaments on 18th &19th St. Would love to see what is > there now. > Thank you Where exactly on 18th St. and 19th St.? Elizabeth Shannon

Could you please let me know how you got in touch with Mark Collins. My gr. grandfather owned 5 tenaments on 18th & 19th St. Would love to see what is there now. Thank you, Pat

That's great news. Some time ago I was denied access to my grandfather's Navy records (WWI) because I was not an immediate family member, and none were alive. They just told me I was out of luck. Very frustrating! I hope this means I can now access it. Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 12:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [IRISH-NYC] NARA Releases 1.2 Million Military Files! Very exciting news for researchers and history buffs!!! The National Archives will open 1.2 million military personnel files to the general public beginning Saturday, June 11, in St. Louis. Beginning in 1999, NARA and the US Defense Department agreed to work together to release these files due to a very high level of interest from researchers. According to NARA, veterans files are kept private for 62 years before they can released to the public. While Army records are included, most of these records pertain to enlisted personnel in the Navy from 1885 to 1939 and the Marines from 1906 to 1939. Famous figures are also included, including files pertaining to General George S. Patton Jr., Elvis Presley, Clark Gable and Steve McQueen. You have a few options if you want to view any files: 1 - To view the records in person, please call NARA in St. Louis at 314-801-0850 and make an appointment. 2 - To request copies of the records in writing, please send a letter to: National Personnel Records Center 9700 Paige Avenue St. Louis, MO 63132-5100 The copies cost 50 cents per page and will take an average of 90 days to arrive. You can find additional information on the release of these records and how to obtain them at NARA's website: http://www.archives.gov Take care, Tracy IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY list admin http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com http://www.inyc.freeservers.com ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== Please don't flame anyone on the list. If you do, you will be unsubbed. If you are flamed, please contact the list admin privately. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Very exciting news for researchers and history buffs!!! The National Archives will open 1.2 million military personnel files to the general public beginning Saturday, June 11, in St. Louis. Beginning in 1999, NARA and the US Defense Department agreed to work together to release these files due to a very high level of interest from researchers. According to NARA, veterans files are kept private for 62 years before they can released to the public. While Army records are included, most of these records pertain to enlisted personnel in the Navy from 1885 to 1939 and the Marines from 1906 to 1939. Famous figures are also included, including files pertaining to General George S. Patton Jr., Elvis Presley, Clark Gable and Steve McQueen. You have a few options if you want to view any files: 1 - To view the records in person, please call NARA in St. Louis at 314-801-0850 and make an appointment. 2 - To request copies of the records in writing, please send a letter to: National Personnel Records Center 9700 Paige Avenue St. Louis, MO 63132-5100 The copies cost 50 cents per page and will take an average of 90 days to arrive. You can find additional information on the release of these records and how to obtain them at NARA's website: http://www.archives.gov Take care, Tracy IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY list admin http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com http://www.inyc.freeservers.com

Hi, I think there was a canal there in the early days of the city, under the Dutch. Rita

A canal ran beside it or under it or close by or they wanted to dig it up and put one there ? Mary Anne -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

Just a little bit of a brain teaser to ease you into the weekend - How did Canal Street get its name? Good luck! Take care, Tracy IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY list admin http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com http://www.inyc.freeservers.com

For a book I'm researching on my family, I would like to gather anecdotes relating to Irish bricklayers and stonemasons working in NYC from the 1840s to the 1940s. In 1840, my gggrandfather John Fullam emigrated from Dublin to NYC and worked as a bricklayer and stonemason, as did his sons and their sons. One of his sons, my ggrandfather Victor Fullam was killed in 1909 when a steel scaffold collapsed during the construction of the Singer Sewing Machine Building in lower Manhattan. His sons, Andrew, Joseph, Lawrence and Eugene, laid bricks on the Empire State Building and other projects. They also worked civil service jobs in the city's fire, police and parks departments. My father Eugene was a civil engineer who worked below and above ground, supervising construction of foundations and steel erections. Any and all background info or even more specific data relating to these individuals would be greatly appreciated! (I have most of the bmd info on all of them.) Thanks! This is my first post! I've been reading the list for nearly a year, and I really enjoy it. Anne Fullam Goeke

Well all I have to say is that is extremely depressing to hear! Sorry about that folks and Thanks for letting me know! Depressed in South Dakota -- Kathleen >>>>According to www.snopes.com this actually happened in 2003. "mklaffky" [email protected] Kathleen, You may need to post a correction: according to Snopes, this already occurred in August 2003. Please see: http://www.snopes.com/science/mars.asp Regards, Walter Greenspan Unfortunately, this took place 2 years ago, it's NOT happening now. AND (well, you KNOW what comes next...)Michael O'Rourke" For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of peace shall not be removed, says the LORD, who has compassion on you. Isaiah 54:10 --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

....Mark Collins, who kindly photo'd the West 18th and West 25th Street addresses where my grandparents and great-grandparents lived way back in the 1880-1900 era and sent me digital images. One is now a parking lot, the other a contemporary structure. Not that I had any hopes that a 100-year-plus building might still be standing but as I said in my "thank you" to Mark: "Hey! You never know." Again, my warmest thanks to Mark. G. Alexander