Forgot to mention the fact that a number of the births I have located in the parish registers were never registered with the civil authorities, even though they occurred in England after 1837. This includes my great grandfather, Michael Muckian, born in Newcastle in September 1851. Also worth remembering that a lot of people were illiterate back in those days, and spellings of surnames were very variable. On 10/03/06, Michael Muckian wrote: > > I have been able to do quite a lot of research on my Catholic ancestors > in 19th century Newcastle and Co Durham by ordering microfilms of parish > registers through my local LDS Family History Centre. > > Have a look at > http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp > to see what may be available for your interest locations. > > Happy hunting > > Michael Muckian > www.muckian.net > > > >

I have been able to do quite a lot of research on my Catholic ancestors in 19th century Newcastle and Co Durham by ordering microfilms of parish registers through my local LDS Family History Centre. Have a look at http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp to see what may be available for your interest locations. Happy hunting Michael Muckian www.muckian.net

On 3/7/06, Pat Wood <twigs3@harbornet.com> wrote: > Is it correct the RC parishes were not formed in England until sometime after 1900? Many Catholic parishes in England (and other parts of Britain) were formed well before 1900. When new parishes were formed by dividing existing parishes, the older parish usually kept the records for the old undivided area. So even if a parish is of recent foundation, there may be old records for its area in an adjacent older parish. > ...where would one find baptismal records for RC in the 1800s in England? Some Catholic baptismal registers are still held by the parish; others are held in archives. In some cases where the originals are held by the parish, copies are available in libraries. The best way to find out where the records are is to contact the parish. Sean

Pat, I always thought your explanation was the correct one. I never had it growing up. My Irish Grandmother came over in 1905 and she never made it but she served plain boiled potatoes for lunch every day. My half Italian husband is the one who introduced me to it! His Irish comes from his mother who grew up on a remote island off Newfoundland. They only had a milk cow so any beef had to come over from the mainland by boat. They had no electricity so it had to be salted. We've had plenty of testimony here that no one in Ireland ever heard of it and the source for the other version is only the intro to a Meat Preparation Fact Sheet, not any food history research report, so I think someone is talking through their hat and it ain't us. Margaret

Try a local Records Office, Reference Library or the Parish Priest the latter isn't always an easy job! Where in England are you looking? Gill N Wales ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Wood" <twigs3@harbornet.com> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:54 AM Subject: [UK-Irish] ? re RC records > Is it correct the RC parishes were not formed in England until sometime > after 1900? > > If that's the case, then, where would one find baptismal records for RC in > the 1800s in England? > > Thanks very much. > > Pat in WA > **** All outgoing mail scanned by Norton Anti-virus **** > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > >

Is it correct the RC parishes were not formed in England until sometime after 1900? If that's the case, then, where would one find baptismal records for RC in the 1800s in England? Thanks very much. Pat in WA **** All outgoing mail scanned by Norton Anti-virus ****

from the Irish Heritage newsletter.... Old Fashion Corned Beef & Cabbage Ingredients (8 servings) 5 lb Corned-Beef brisket 1/2 cup pickling spice 8 Medium Potatoes, pared 1 Medium cabbage,cut in wedges Chopped parsley 1 Clove Garlic 10 Whole black Peppers 8 Medium Carrots, Pared 8 Medium yellow onions, peeled 2 tb Butter Instructions Wipe corned beef with damp paper towels. Place in large kettle, cover with water. Add garlic, cloves, black peppercorns, and bay leaves. Bring to boiling. Reduce heat; simmer 5 minutes. Skim surface. Cover kettle; simmer 3 to 4 hours, or untill corned beef is fork-tender. Add carrots, potatoes, and onions during last 25 minutes. Add cabbage wedges during last 15 minutes. Cook vegetables just till tender. Slice across the grain. Arrange slices on platter with cabbage. Brush potatoes with butter, sprinkle with chopped parsley. Serve along with rest of vegetables and "Mustard Sauce". My comments: I use ketchup, not mustard. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

This is from the Irish Heritage Newsletter, check the below it for my understanding of the Irish and Corned Beef. The History and Irish Tradition of Corned Beef There are few things better than simmering corned beef with carrots, onions, potatoes and spices. According to the US department of Agriculture Originally "Corned Beef and Cabbage" was a traditional dish served for Easter Sunday dinner in rural Ireland. The beef, because there was no refrigeration at that time was salted or brined during the winter to preserve it, It was then eaten after the long, meatless Lenten fast. However other Irish people feel that Corned Beef and cabbage is about as Irish as Spaghetti and meatballs. That beef was a real delicacy usually served only to the kings. According to Bridgett Haggerty of the website Irish Cultres and Customs she says that their research shows that most likely a "bacon joint" or a piece of salted pork boiled with cabbage and potatoes would more likely have shown up for an Easter Sunday feast in the rural parts of Ireland. Since the advent of refrigeration, the trend in Ireland is to eat fresh meats. Today this peasant dish is more popular in the United States than in Ireland. Irish-Americans and lots of other people eat it on St. Patrick's Day, Ireland's principal feast day, as a nostalgic reminder of their Irish heritage. Corning is a form of curing; it has nothing to do with corn. The name comes from Anglo-Saxon times before refrigeration. In those days, the meat was dry-cured in coarse "corns" of salt. Pellets of salt, some the size of kernels of corn, were rubbed into the beef to keep it from spoiling and to preserve it. Today brining -- the use of salt water -- has replaced the dry salt cure, but the name "corned beef" is still used, rather than "brined" or "pickled" beef. Commonly used spices that give corned beef its distinctive flavor are peppercorns and bay leaf. Of course, these spices may vary regionally. http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/2Kitch/aCBeefCabge.html http://www.kitchenproject.com/history/CornedBeef.htm My understanding: I have always heard that the Irish began eating the Corned Beef dinner in New York City. According to my version, when the boats came in from across the Atlantic, they usually had some meat left in the salty brine (no refrigerators in the day, so this is how the meat stayed fresh). Anyhow, they sold it cheap and the poor Irish bought it and soaked it and poured off the water (we did that when I was young). After most of the salt was gone they threw in all the vegetables they had. Guess they got to like it because I grew up eating it often and making hash with leftovers. Anyone else have a version of the history of the Irish and corned beef. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Looking for - EDWARD FLYNN Metropolitan London Police officer - born Ireland abt 1794 - policeman 1830 - 1846 - died1851 Clerkenwell . Issue - Edward born 1829 , Mary , Sarah , Thomas , Catherine , & Fanny with I st wife Catherine born Ireland . Issue with 2nd wife - Mary Ann Lawrence born Radnorshire Wales - James , John & Margaret . Michael J Hewett Canada hewet@ shaw.ca

Beannachtai na Feile Padraig I would like to wish everyone in my extended Irish family on the list an enjoyable St Patrick's day and that we continue in all our little ways with our contributions to the social economic and cultural life in all parts of the world we inhabit. I am based in London looking for my Irish Americans roots in the USA. If you have a COLGAN name in your family tree with roots from Mayo please contact me. On a historical note Irish immigrants have been making their way to London since the 12th Century. One of the most famous was Grace O Malley who was received by Queen Elizabeth I in the 16th Century. She was a famous female pirate leader around the coast of Ireland France ad parts of Spain. She is up there with all the men in her exploits. In the 18th Century the Irish settlement in London got off the ground around the Tottenham Court Road Covent Garden Bermondsey and Wapping areas of London. The famine period saw the population increase to 100000 plus in the majority unskilled because of their agricultural background. The numbers swelled up to the post WW 2 period. Today as a result their is a huge second generation community in the Capital with a huge presence in all walks of life from medicine to finance to construction. Unfortunately the Irish community is politically unrepresented in proportion to its numbers when it is considered there are up 2 million Londoners with an Irish background. How things and life have changed in Ireland immigration is now curtailed. It is just a drip in an ocean and to reflect the changing nature of the countries population some of Irelands road signs could soon feature signs in Polish Latvian and Czech languages to benefit drivers from eastern European countries. Local newspapers have columns in Russian and Polish. I wonder what our ancestors would think about it all , Go neiri libh go leir Ciaran Colgan chggf@btinternet.com === NY-IRISH Mailing List ==== > The NY-Irish Mailing List Website > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/NYIrishList/ > Get info on how to unsub, change your subcription, links, > archives,recipes, lookups etc. > >

Beannachtai na Feile Padraig I would like to wish everyone in my extended Irish family on the list an enjoyable St Patrick's day and that we continue in all our little ways with our contributions to the social economic and cultural life in all parts of the world we inhabit. I am based in London looking for my Irish Americans roots in the USA. If you have a COLGAN name in your family tree with roots from Mayo please contact me. On a historical note Irish immigrants have been making their way to London since the 12th Century. One of the most famous was Grace O Malley who was received by Queen Elizabeth I in the 16th Century. She was a famous female pirate leader around the coast of Ireland France ad parts of Spain. She is up there with all the men in her exploits. In the 18th Century the Irish settlement in London got off the ground around the Tottenham Court Road Covent Garden Bermondsey and Wapping areas of London. The famine period saw the population increase to 100000 plus in the majority unskilled because of their agricultural background. The numbers swelled up to the post WW 2 period. Today as a result their is a huge second generation community in the Capital with a huge presence in all walks of life from medicine to finance to construction. Unfortunately the Irish community is politically unrepresented in proportion to its numbers when it is considered there are up 2 million Londoners with an Irish background. How things and life have changed in Ireland immigration is now curtailed. It is just a drip in an ocean and to reflect the changing nature of the countries population some of Irelands road signs could soon feature signs in Polish Latvian and Czech languages to benefit drivers from eastern European countries. Local newspapers have columns in Russian and Polish. I wonder what our ancestors would think about it all , Go n_eiri libh go leir Ciaran Colgan chggf@btinternet.com

The Ireland GenWeb County Mayo website has been updated. A new webpage for the Balla Civil parish has been added. The following town(land)s have either been added or updated: Drumadoon, Garhawnagh, Legaturrin, Lagnamuck, Tullybeg, Tully More, Legaun, Moat, Pollavaddy, Rathduff, Ardboley North & South, Ballinagran, Ballykerrigan, Ballymackeogh, Ballymacloughlin, Ballyrourke, Carrowgarve, Carrownabaun, Dooros, Balla Town, Ballyclogher, Gortbaun, Swineford Town, Cuileen, Carrowdoogan, Gladree, Aghaglasheen, Ballina Town, Killadeer (2), Bellaburke, Beltra, Barcull, Castlebar Town New records, maps and links have also been added. If you would like to adopt a civil parish please contact me off list. Also, if you have any additions, corrections or comments about the site, write me off list. You can reach the website at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlmayo/ -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

I am passing this on: Dear listers, Are you planning to visit Ireland this year???? The Clan Rally for the O'Shaughnessys (all spellings) will be held from September 14-17 2006 in Galway and Limerick Ireland. Come see and hear the history of your ancestors. Want to know more then contact Megan Shaughnessy McKenzie meganme@icisp.net.au President of the O'Shaughnessy Society (Worldwide). Spread the word!!!!

SNIPPET: Hillsborough, Co. Down, is the setting for a love story which crossed class barriers, was inextricably linked to a world-famous song and marked by a bizarre coincidence. The area's early contact was with the war drums of the EARL OF ESSEX who had been sent by QUEEN ELIZABETH I to curb the doings of the boisterous O'NEILL clan. In 1573, ESSEX was joined by one Moyses HILL whose family had owned large tracts of land in Devon. General HILL was knighted in 1603 and given some of Ireland's most productive land. Thus commenced the plantation of the HILLs, and by a series of arranged, advantageous marriages, it is estimated that by 1845, the HILLs owned some 120,000 acres in estates in Down, Kilkenny, Wicklow, Kildare and Antrim. The HILL family's seat was Hillsborough Castle, some 75,000 acres in the parish of Kilwarlin. Many grand houses in Ireland were sited in large wooded estates far from the centres of population, but Hillsborough Castle, which was built in th! e 1790s, is almost on the main street and, as such, as a statement of the HILL family's aim to identify with people among whom they lived. Moyses HILL married the sister of Sorley Boye MacDONNELL, while his son married Sorley Boye's daughter, although there were "anti-fraternisation laws" of the time. Successive generations spent much of their money on improving the lot of their tenants. The family is still held in high esteem in the area although they no longer live there. At the height of the Great Famine of the 1840s, the HILLs spent 20,000 pounds alleviating the misery of the local people, and the Marquis said, "I will stand by the people and attend to their wants, even should I be obliged to mortgage my last acre for that purpose." While the HILLs bridged class barriers they objected to the romance between Miss Annie Fortescue HARRISON (1870), the talented, accomplished musician daughter of a Sussex MP, who came to Hillsborough Castle. Lord Arthur HILL and Miss HARRISON(1851-1944) fell in love but the family objected to their second son marrying a penniless, landless commoner. Annie was popular in the village, played the organ in the parish church and ministered to the needs of the poorer people in the parish. Lord Arthur was intent on marrying her but Annie did not want to be the cause of a rift in the family and fled to England. Arthur searched, was unable to find her and married another Annie - Annie Nisida Denham COOKES, but just a year after their wedding she died (1874) and is commemorated in a stained-glass window in the Wakehurst chapel of Ardingley parish church in Sussex. Some time later at a London concert Arthur HILL heard for the first time the plaintive song of parted lovers, "In the Gloaming" - found it had been composed by his lost love! The two were reunited and the HILL family finally gave the couple their blessing and Lord and Lady HILL took up residence in Hillsborough Castle, their marriage lasted 50 years until Lord Arthur's death in 1931. Lady HILL survived him by 14 years. She wrote operettas and her small C. P. ENGLAND organ, dating from 1795, was presented to the parish church of St. Malachi when the HILLs left the area in 1924 and is still played during church services. The church dates from 1636, and the east window with its depiction of angels with wings under their chins is the design of Sir Joshua REYNOLDS. Hillsborough Castle was purchased by the state in 1924 and the castle and grounds are open to the public on Saturdays. IN THE GLOAMING In the gloaming, oh my darling When the lights are soft and low And the quiet shadows, falling, Softly come and softly go When the trees are sobbing faintly With a gentle unknown woe Will you think of me and love me, As you did once, long ago In the gloaming, oh my darling Think not bitterly of me Though I passed away in silence Left you lonely, set you free For my heart was tossed with longing What had been could never be It was best to leave you thus, dear, Best for you, and best for me In the gloaming, oh my darling When the lights are soft and low Will you think of me, and love me As you did once long ago.

Looking for Edward FLYNN born Ireland abt, 1790 - died Clerkenwell Middlesex 1851. Wife Catherine born Ireland abt 1809 . Second wife Mary Ann Lawrence born Radnorshire Wales - born abt 1825 - survived Edward. Michael Hewett hewet@shaw.ca

can the person who was looking for purdy/mc donald contact me please i may be able to help them

The above were my great great uncle and aunt. They were both from Dublin but lived in the Manchester area. Arthur served in the Boer War and WW1. They had four children, three boys and a girl. Their daughter died young. One of their sons, also called Arthur, served on board HMS Searcher during WW2. Unfortunately he died on 15 March 1945 aged 24. He is buried in the Royal Naval cemetery in Orkney. I would love to know if I still have relatives in Manchester. Cathy Daly Dublin, Ireland Cathy Ext. 6468

SNIPPET: In the Nov/Dec 2004 issue of Dublin's "Ireland of the Welcomes" magazine, Margaret HOUNSELL, Bridport, Dorset, England shared: "I have just completed my first year's subscription and wish to say thank you for a beautiful magazine. I have loved every edition and can't wait for the next to arrive. The articles are fascinating and the lovely scenic photographs make me long to return to Ireland .... I, like so many others in England, had an Irish maternal grandmother. Mary was from Boyle, in Co. Roscommon. She and her sister Bridget came over from Ireland as young girls to go into service. They never went back home, but their love of their homeland never dimmed. Grandma was eighty-nine years old when she fell down the stairs and died. I was only fifteen at the time, and although I didn't see her often, I was very sad at her passing. She was a saintly lady, who attended daily Mass and she never had a bad word to say about anyone. She would always beg me! to play 'The Rose of Tralee' on the piano, and was horrified that I couldn't play a note. But I was an English teenager who was into rock' n' roll; all this 'Irishness' bored me. If only I'd known that later in life I would fall in love with Ireland myself. As with so many 'ladies of a certain age,' it all began with Daniel O'DONNELL. I suddenly found I couldn't get enough of all the 'ould Irish Ballads' and Daniel's description of Donegal made me long to visit. When I finally got the chance, I even flew -- something I'd said I'd never do. I wanted to get to Ireland so badly; I didn't care how I got there. And of course, Daniel is right: Donegal is 'Heaven on Earth.' This was the first of many visits; thankfully my husband shares my passion for all things Irish -- we have covered many miles both north and south and love every inch." Robert S. REDMOND, Knutsford, Cheshire, England wrote: "The article 'Gateway to Wicklow's Wilderness' which you featured in your July/Aug 2004 issue, brought back happy memories of a wonderful, natural countryside. What a pity that you did not tell the full story about Aghavannagh. As you stated, it was once owned by Charles Stewart PARNELL, who used it as a hunting lodge. On his death in 1891, however, it was acquired by John REDMOND, and it was the home which he loved for the rest of his life. It is sad to see this building abandoned and neglected, as it is today with its historic connections to two great Irish patriots. Can something not be done to give the place new life? After all, Avondale is well preserved. John REDMOND was, in the opinion of many who have studied his life, the more accomplished and effective political leader. Those who like me, have the honour to bear his name, are proud to do so and would be happy to have him remembered." Martha LASLEY, Troy, PA penned: "When I visited the Ennis Singers Club (Clare) a couple of years ago, what I loved most was the group's reverence for the human voice. Most of the singers were exquisite, but when one young woman forgot the words, everyone lovingly held the space for her to find her voice. That spirit of encouragement was part of the magic that Barbara COYLE captured in 'The Tune is Brother to the Prayer,' which you featured in your May/June 2004 issue. She writes with the same vocal clarity and gleam in her eye that I found at the Ennis Singer's Club. Thanks for transporting me back to Ireland and all its wonder."

Well silly me ( Jean R - Silly Gilly!) Date March 11-12 2006 Sorry ----- Original Message ----- From: Gill Smith To: IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com Cc: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com ; FERMANAGH-GOLD-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 7:29 AM Subject: 2 Day Conference For anyoneinterested and who lives near enough9or not very near!) I thought I'd let you all know about this A Conference to celebrate the historical and cultural hertiage on both sides of the Irish Sea Gwesty Tre-Ysgawen Tre-Ysgawen Hall Hotel Anglesey Gwynedd £10 a day (accomodation extra) Contact with Ireland and Anglesey from around 4000BC There are lectures on Irish and Welsh Languages and Literature. Neolithic Burial and Ritual (the speaker really knows her stuff) Art and Myth A History of Dalkey and alot more If anyone is interestedcontact me and I'll tell more Thanks Gill in North Wales

For anyoneinterested and who lives near enough9or not very near!) I thought I'd let you all know about this A Conference to celebrate the historical and cultural hertiage on both sides of the Irish Sea Gwesty Tre-Ysgawen Tre-Ysgawen Hall Hotel Anglesey Gwynedd £10 a day (accomodation extra) Contact with Ireland and Anglesey from around 4000BC There are lectures on Irish and Welsh Languages and Literature. Neolithic Burial and Ritual (the speaker really knows her stuff) Art and Myth A History of Dalkey and alot more If anyone is interestedcontact me and I'll tell more Thanks Gill in North Wales