Life LIFE, believe, is not a dream So dark as sages say; Oft a little morning rain Foretells a pleasant day. Sometimes there are clouds of gloom, But these are transient all; If the shower will make the roses bloom, O why lament its fall ? Rapidly, merrily, Life's sunny hours flit by, Gratefully, cheerily, Enjoy them as they fly ! What though Death at times steps in And calls our Best away ? What though sorrow seems to win, O'er hope, a heavy sway ? Yet hope again elastic springs, Unconquered, though she fell; Still buoyant are her golden wings, Still strong to bear us well. Manfully, fearlessly, The day of trial bear, For gloriously, victoriously, Can courage quell despair ! Charlotte Bronte SNIPPET: BRONTE is the family name of three sisters who became famous novelists - Charlotte, Emily and Anne. Their lives and works are associated with the lonely moors of Yorkshire, England, where they were born Their brother Branwell painted a lovely portrait of his sisters. Their father, born Patrick BRUNTY in Emdale, parish of Drumgallyroney, County Down on St. Patrick's Day 1777, was a poor, rather eccentric Irishman who became the parish clergyman in the small, isolated town of Haworth, Yorkshire in England. Charlotte's famous novel, "Jane Eyre," (1847) was largely biographical. Through the heroine, Charlotte relived the hated boarding school and her experiences as a governness in a large house, although the hero and master of the house, Rochester, was fictional. At the time it was published, some of her contemporaries were shocked that the character, Jane, wanted to be regarded as a thinking and independent person as opposed to a weak woman. Charlotte wrote a first-hand account of her visit to the Crystal Palace at the The Great Exhibition, in 1851, at Hyde Park, London. n Sir Joseph PAXTON's Crystal Palace contained a floor area of more than 800,000 square feet and contained over eight miles of display tables. Charlotte wrote - "Yesterday, I went for the second time to the Crystal Palace. We remained in it about three hours, and I must say I was more struck with it on this occasion than at my first visit It is a wonderful place - vast, strange, new, and impossible to describe. Its grandeur does not consist in one thing, but in the unique assemblage of all things. Whatever human industry has created you will find there, from the great compartments filled with railway engines and boilers, with mill machinery in full work, with splendid carriages of all kinds, with harness of every description, to the glass-covered and velvet-spread stands loaded with the most gorgeous work of the goldsmith and silversmith, ! and the carefully guarded caskets full of real diamonds and pearls worth hundreds of thousands of pounds. It may be called a bazaar or a fair, but it is such a bazaar or fair as Eastern genii might have created. It seems as if only magic could have gathered this mass of wealth from all the ends of the earth -- as if none but supernatural hands could have arranged it thus, with such a blaze and contrast of colours and marvellous power of effect. The multitude filling the great aisles seems ruled and subdued by some invisible influence. Amongst the thirty thousand souls that peopled it the day I was there not one loud noise was to be heard, not one irregular movement seen; the living tide rolls on quietly, with a deep hum like the sea heard from the distance."

Hi Pete, it is interesting to note that on the Matheson survey of surnames in Ireland (births/1890) that there were only 30 births of O'SHAUGHNESSY, principally in Limerick in the province of Munster. That could turn out to be a good clue. The breakdown was 18 Munster, 8 Leinster, 3 Connaught, and only 1 Ulster. (Interestingly, there were 41 SHAUGHNESSY births that same year, breakdown is somewhat different, being 26 in the province of Connaught, 9 Munster, 6 Leinster and 0 in Ulster). Births in Ireland (1891) showed 219 for BURNS, principally in Cos. Antrim, Down and Armagh in the Northern Ireland part of the province of Ulster. The breakdown was 140 in the province of Ulster, 49 Munster, 18 Leinster, 12 Connaught. The Munster BURNS births were chiefly in Cos. Clare, Cork, Kerry and Tipperary. The Matheson survey free search can be found at www.ancestryireland.com While it says it pertains to Ulster surnames, it actually gives surname distribution in 1890 (births that year) for the entire island. You were asking about a placename "acclemore." Using the all-Ireland IreAtlas townland search engine at the Leitrim-Roscommon website, there are 2,071 placenames in Ireland that end with "more." Then there are others that end with "our." Nothing really close that I could find, but many "sound-alike" possibilities to include Acre More, Annagh More, Annaghmore, Mullaghmore, Aghamore, Oughtymore, Ballaghmore, Aghalour, Aggard More, Oughterard, Aghafore, Maghera More, Magheramore, Evlaugh More, Aghafore, Knockanour, Lackamore, Inishmore, Arklow, Eskermore. There are also townlands that begin with Eccle... You can set the townland search engine to "exact spelling," or "beings with" or "ends with" or "anywhere in field" searches. You can also bring up townlands in one particular county, etc. My advice would be to do some serious research in the KNOWN places they lived (with the help of a professional genealogist or historical society) to pin a particular county down. Once you had a handle on the correct county, that would narrow townlands down. For now, a good clue could be the fairly rare O'Shaughnessy surname. Doesn't apply to your case, but apparently there is a Maclemore surname found on some records, on doing a Google search. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "ENSEMBLE BIBUX" <bibux@btopenworld.com> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 1:24 AM Subject: [UK-Irish] Burns ancestors "accle-a-moor" > Hi I have been researching my Burns ancestors for over 20 years, and am still struggling to progress...... > > Here are the details... My gt-gt-grandfather, Patrick Burns married in preston in 1865 to Ann Kidd... He & his wife are both classed as born in Ireland on the 1871 census..He died in 1875... She is not the witness at death and is unheard of afterwards.. > > Through research I have uncovered 2 brothers & 2 sisters all of whom married in Preston between 1864 & 1885... John married Maria Heneghan in 1864 ( This is the first documentation I have of the family in the UK) ,Maria died in 1884, and the following year John married Mary Maloney an Irish widow.... > > Bridget married Francis McGurty in 1870 and converted through adult baptism to Catholocism the following year.... It is from her adult baptismal record I have the mother's maiden name.. > > Margaret married Owen Connolly in 1867... & she died in 1870... > > Thomas married Mary Cain in 1877... He was a lot vyounger than the others & onlky seems to have popped up when Margaret & Patrick died.. > > Basically, the first record I have is the 1864 marriage of John & Maria Heneghan... I know she was from Mayo, as where the witnesses ( census detail) ... This is the only marriage cert, I have where one of the siblings did not witness, therefore I presume they were not in the UK at that time... > > Census Detail is poor... Whilst several neighbours are given a county & even townland the only census return from 1871 - 1901 to state other than Ireland is Thomas Burns in 1901 who is redorded as being boirn in "Ireland, Accle -a- moor"... I cannot find any trace of such a place in searches of Irish townlands.... > > Also Bridget had an illegitimate son James Burns born in Ireland according to the 1871 census in 1860... > > The ages on birth & death certs is such that I guess the yrs of birth to be ... JOHN c. 1840, MARGARET c. 182, PATRICK c. 1843, BRIDGET c. 1844, THOMAS c. 1856.. > > All were married in Church Of England, John & Patrick had their children bapt. in C of E,Bridget (see above) married in Cof E then bap.t as Catholic herself, children all RC... Margt's one daughter was RC, althoughb her parents md. in CofE/// > > From marrriage certs father's name JOHN BURNS alternately LABOURER or FARMER on theses marriage certs. Mother's name ( from Bridget's adult baptism) MARY ANN O'SHAUGHNESSY... > > So I desperately need help tracking a family with these names form a place called "accle-a-moor" > > Regards, > > Pete Burns.

Dear Tim: The GRO holds births, deaths and Catholic marriages from 1864. They also hold non-Catholic marriages from 1845. Prior to 1864 you need to check the Parish records. Try the Genealogical Office in the National LIbrary (www.nli.ie). There they have the microfilm of almost all the RC parish registers from the late 17th centyr in the east at from the mid 19th century in the South West. You could also try: www.familysearch.org and click on the library search button. Then search by county or town and it will give you film numbers. You can then order them from you local Family History Centre (LDS). A lot of protestant records were burnt in 1922, but duplicates exist of some. Try www.ireland.anglican.org/library.libroots Hope this is helpful in some way. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Brooke" <tim.brooke@FaberMusic.com> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: RE: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > Many belated thanks to all who have assisted me in tracking down John and > Mary. It is much appreciated! > > If I could persist for a moment longer, does anyone know how I would go > about tracking down Patrick Carney (b c1861) in Ireland, possibly it seems > in Killucan and Ballinameen (Roscommon)? If I can find the Patrick's birth > certificate establishing parnets as John Carney and Mary Riley then it > would > be a major breakthrough and one of my relatives would surely jump on the > next plane to Knock! Alternatively the marriage of John and Mary c 1860. > Does anyone knwo where the records are held for such things? > > best wishes > > Tim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] > Sent: 11 May 2006 16:13 > To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > > Yes, you've made some progress and that's always good! > Susan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Brooke" <tim.brooke@FaberMusic.com> > To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:47 AM > Subject: RE: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > >> Many thanks Susan, >> >> I actually already have Mary's maiden name. It is RILEY. So Bridget KELLY >> was a RILEY before her marriage. Bridget was a widow in 1871, yes. She >> must >> be the sister of Mary, as her relationship to John is sister in law. >> Though >> there again she could have been a KELLY who married a CARNEY brother of >> John's and reverted back to her maiden name when she was widowed. This >> latter scenario is less liely I think. >> >> So as I see it there are 2 avenues open for exploration: John and Mary's >> marriage c 1860 or so, or Patrick's birth c 1861. Given the use for >> family >> names it's quite likely presumably that Patrick would have been named >> after >> John or Mary's father, or grandfather.... >> >> from MaryPat's email the other day two of the possibilities for John and >> Mary were from the same place, making them very likely candidates as they >> didn't often marry outisde their immediate circle.. >> >> CARNY, Joannem Christening >> Gender: Male >> Christening Date: 29 May 1841 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, >> Roscommon, Ireland >> Collection: Roman Catholic >> Father: Michaelis CARNY >> Mother: Annae BEIRNE >> Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 >> >> REILY, Mariam Christening >> Gender: Female >> Christening Date: 9 Mar 1842 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, >> Roscommon, Ireland >> Collection: Roman Catholic >> Father: Joannis REILY >> Mother: Brigidae BERMINGHAM >> Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 >> >> >> All very interesting and tantalising!! >> >> Tim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] >> Sent: 10 May 2006 20:03 >> To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley >> >> >> Hello Tim, >> I sent an image of the 1871 English Census off list to you, but in the >> interests of everyone seeing it, I have transcribed it below: >> >> Andrew Carney 1863 Batley, Yorks >> John Carney 1843 Ireland Labourer >> Mary Carney 1845 Ireland >> Mary Carney 1870 Batley, Yorks >> Michael Carney 1867 Batley, Yorks >> Patrick Carney 1861 Ireland >> Bridget Kelly 1841 Sister in Law Ireland rag picker >> James Kelly 1861 Nephew Ireland. >> >> So, there you have it, they came to Yorkshire sometime between the birth >> of >> Patrick (1861) and the birth of Andrew (1863). I think a useful thing to >> do >> now would be to go onto FreeBMD and find the GRO reference for the birth >> of >> Andrew. Then order the cert from the GRO. That will give you Mary's >> maiden >> name. >> >> Plus, you now have the extra info of Bridget Kelly and James Kelly. I >> can't >> remember if Bridget is a widow or not, you can check when you get the >> image. >> >> She may be either a sister of John or of Mary or she may be the >> wife/widow >> of a brother of Mary. A bit more investigation will reveal which one. Of >> course, if you get Mary's maiden name, and you find it is Kelly, then >> it's > >> a >> >> very good chance she was married to a brother of Mary. On the other hand, >> she may be Mary's sister, who had a child out of wedlock. Many >> possibilities. >> >> I am now going to try, on the off chance, for the same people on the 1861 >> census, in case Patrick was born earlier in the year in Ireland, and then >> they moved to England that same year. >> >> Susan >> Canada >> >> >> >> ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== >> The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: >> http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ >> >> ============================== >> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. >> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> >> The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, >> may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). >> Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is >> unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not >> disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete >> all copies immediately. >> >> Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy >> of > >> this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It >> is > >> the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for >> viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any >> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not >> necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding >> or fellow subsidiary companies. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. >> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== >> The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: >> http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ >> >> ============================== >> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your >> ancestors > >> at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: >> > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta > rgetid=5429 >> >> > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, > may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). > Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is > unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not > disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete > all copies immediately. > > Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of > this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is > the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for > viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any > views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding > or fellow subsidiary companies. > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >

FOND MEMORY It was a school where all the children wore darned worsted, where they cried -- or almost all -- when the Reverend Mother announced at lunchtime that the King had died peacefully in his sleep. I dressed in wool as well, ate rationed food, played English games and learned how wise the Magna Carta was, how hard the Hanoverians had tried, the measure and complexity of verse, the hum and score of the whole orchestra. At three o'clock I caught two buses home where sometimes in the late afternoon at a piano pushed into a corner of the playroom my father would sit down and play the slow lilts of Tom Moore while I stood there trying not to weep at the cigarette smoke stinging up from between his fingers and -- as much as I could think -- I thought this is my country, was, will be again, this upward-straining song made to be our safe inventory of pain. And I was wrong. -- Ms. Eavan BOLAND

A DRINKING SONG Wine comes in at the mouth And love comes in at the eye; That's all we shall know for truth Before we grow old and die. I lift the glass to my mouth, I look at you, and I sigh. -- William Butler Yeats THE COMING OF WISDOM WITH TIME Though leaves are many, the root is one; Through all the lying days of my youth I swayed my leaves and flowers in the sun; Now I may wither into the truth. -- William Butler Yeats

SNIPPET: In the 9th century, figures began to appear along with decorative designs on Irish crosses. This stylistic change was probably based on cultural influences, per "British Heritage" periodical. The movement for reform within the Church put a new emphasis on biblical events as models for behavior. Also, the frequency of Viking raids on Ireland evoked appeals to God, which was reflected on the crosses in portrayals as God's assistance to His chosen people. Clonmacnois, in County Offaly, was one of the most famous monasteries of the pre-Norman era. Today, its peaceful setting is littered with remnants of monastic churches, round towers, grave slabs (one of the best collections in Ireland) and high crosses. The South Cross is part of the transitional period; there are bosses and mouldings and remains of what may once have been cap, it is also covered with spirals, protuberances and interlacings and has a crucifixion panel on the western side. Two crosses at Castledermot in County Kildare exhibit transitional features that include on the South Cross, rich decorative design on one face while the opposite face has a crucifixion in a central position within a ring of a wide range of biblical scenes. The North Cross is similar except that scenes cover both sides. The fall of man occupies the central ring position on one side and the crucifixion on the other. The South Cross at Kells in County Meath probably predates both the Clonmacnois South Cross and the Castledermot crosses and can be classified as a transitional cross, combining biblical scenes with large areas of decorative designs. Known as the cross of Saints Patrick and Columba, this cross is one of the four remaining at Kells. The site is probably best remembered for the "Books of Kells," one of the most beautifully illuminated manuscripts ever produced and now housed in Trinity College Library, in Dublin. This particular Kells high cross seems to echo the ornamentation of the "Book of Kells": abstract designs as well as interlaced and intertwined birds and animals. Even the biblical scenes seem to be more ornamentation than portrayals of events. Carved in low relief with abstract designs in between, they seem to run into each other in the same continuous way the interlacings do. The high cross at Moone in County Kildare is unique. Possessing none of the flowing, continuous lines of the Kells Cross of Saints Patrick and Columba, the Moone cross is one of flat relief and stripped-down detail. The charm, humor, and originality of this particular cross sets it apart from others of the same period. On the base of the cross beneath the scene of the crucifixion are pictured the 12 apostles: armless, geometric figures standing in three rows of four, one row above the other, looking like acrobats on each other's shoulders. The other scenes all show the same originality of design: a bulbous-nosed, dour Abraham sacrifices his son, Isaac, while the calf that will be substituted for Isaac hovers just above him; a goggle-eyed, somewhat bewildered-looking Daniel stands armless in the midst of seven lions who look more like kittens than fierce lions. Spanning the period from the mid-9th century into the 10th century are the masterpiece crosses that represent the fullest development of the high cross. They are distinguished by having the ornamentation confined to the ring and sides of the cross, and their biblical scenes are highly organized into a logical sequence. Usually, the crucifixion occupies the center of the ring on one side with New Testament scenes presented in the panels. Christ in judgment typically occupies the center of the ring's reverse side and is surrounded by panels of Old Testament scenes. The high cross at Durrow in County Offaly is a good example of this. Christ's crucifixion is portrayed in the center of the cross's west side. On the other side we see Christ in majesty looking very much like the Egyptian god of the dead, Osiris. The sides of the Durrow cross carry scenes as well as designs. There is a particularly lovely illustration of the flight into Egypt, showing a worried Joseph holding his chin. Walking in front of him is Mary, holding the Christ child on her back. Kells boast two high cross that fall into the masterpiece category; the West Cross and the Market Cross. Standing in the churchyard close to the earlier cross of Saints Patrick and Columba, all that remains of the West Cross is the bottom half of what once must have been one of the most magnificent of the high crosses. What is left is enough to show the quality of the carving. There is an interesting depiction of Noah's ark with Noah and his sons peering through the windows. There is also a panel of Christ's baptism in the river Jordan: John the Baptist pours water from a spoon over Christ's head while two spectators witness the event. Kells Market Cross stands a short distance from the churchyard where the other three Kells high crosses are situated. It may once have marked the limits of the sanctuary of the Kells monastery. The upper part of this cross is damaged and there is a legend that it once served as the town gallows. The carving covering the entire cross, including the base, is remarkable. Monasterboice in County Louth is rich in reminders of the early days of the Church in Ireland. The site, one of the foremost monastic establishments in pre-Norman Ireland, boasts two churches, several early tombstones, a round tower and what many consider to be the finest surviving example of a high cross. The carving of Muirdach's Cross, both the scenes on the east and west faces as well as the abstract interlacing and vine scrolls, is remarkable. The sculptor was a master in perfect control of his medium. He knew both how to organize his scenes for effect and how to execute them with skill. But it is the amount of detail in each panel that make the cross such a masterpiece. One example is the Christ in Judgment depicted in the ring. Assembled on Christ's right are the blessed praising him to the accompaniment of David's harp. On Christ's left the damned troop off to hell, prodded along by Satan's trident and the kick of an energetic assistant devil. Below Christ's feet the! archangel Michael weighs a soul while a demon attempts to tip the scale in Satan's favor. The period of the masterpiece crosses was followed by a century in which the quality of the carving declined. Biblical scenes disappeared to be replaced by high-relief carvings of Christ, often accompanied by a bishop or abbot. Most characteristic of these late crosses is the general absence of the carving that distinguished the crosses of preceding centuries. One of the latest high crosses Dysert O'Dea, in County Clare, is also one of the most unusual. Though it has the characteristic 12th century high-relief carving of the crucifixion and an abbot (perhaps St. Tola), it is completely ringless. The carving is so sparse and free of decoration that the cross appears modern. The low-relief carving covering the reverse side barely emerges from the stone. In a way, the high crosses had come full circle, from the stark simplicity of an early pillar with a cross design to the simplicity of a monumental piece of stone, bearing one or two high-relief carvings. The era of the Irish high cross ended with the high-relief crosses. Although the Irish landscape was once profusely dotted with these stone monuments, today perhaps less than 100 remain and may of these are in fragments. But the few survivors bear noble witness to the era that produced them

There was no civil registration of births in Ireland until 1864. There was no civil registration of marriages until 1864 except for Church of Ireland marriages. So it's very likely you will have to rely on church records. Microfilm copies of nearly all Roman Catholic marriage and baptismal registers are held at the National Library of Ireland in Dublin. Those from all but one diocese, I believe, are available for viewing. Few if any are indexed. They are not available online. If you know the Catholic parish it may take only an hour or two at the NLI to find the data; if you don't it could take a very long time. The Family History Library in Salt Lake City has microfilms of the registers of some Roman Catholic parishes. Copies are viewable at Family History Centres. Check the FHL holdings to see if they have your parishes of interest. Sean On 5/16/06, Tim Brooke <tim.brooke@fabermusic.com> wrote: > Many belated thanks to all who have assisted me in tracking down John and > Mary. It is much appreciated! > > If I could persist for a moment longer, does anyone know how I would go > about tracking down Patrick Carney (b c1861) in Ireland, possibly it seems > in Killucan and Ballinameen (Roscommon)? If I can find the Patrick's birth > certificate establishing parnets as John Carney and Mary Riley then it would > be a major breakthrough and one of my relatives would surely jump on the > next plane to Knock! Alternatively the marriage of John and Mary c 1860. > Does anyone knwo where the records are held for such things? > > best wishes > > Tim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] > Sent: 11 May 2006 16:13 > To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > > Yes, you've made some progress and that's always good! > Susan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Brooke" <tim.brooke@FaberMusic.com> > To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:47 AM > Subject: RE: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > > > Many thanks Susan, > > > > I actually already have Mary's maiden name. It is RILEY. So Bridget KELLY > > was a RILEY before her marriage. Bridget was a widow in 1871, yes. She > > must > > be the sister of Mary, as her relationship to John is sister in law. > > Though > > there again she could have been a KELLY who married a CARNEY brother of > > John's and reverted back to her maiden name when she was widowed. This > > latter scenario is less liely I think. > > > > So as I see it there are 2 avenues open for exploration: John and Mary's > > marriage c 1860 or so, or Patrick's birth c 1861. Given the use for family > > names it's quite likely presumably that Patrick would have been named > > after > > John or Mary's father, or grandfather.... > > > > from MaryPat's email the other day two of the possibilities for John and > > Mary were from the same place, making them very likely candidates as they > > didn't often marry outisde their immediate circle.. > > > > CARNY, Joannem Christening > > Gender: Male > > Christening Date: 29 May 1841 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, > > Roscommon, Ireland > > Collection: Roman Catholic > > Father: Michaelis CARNY > > Mother: Annae BEIRNE > > Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 > > > > REILY, Mariam Christening > > Gender: Female > > Christening Date: 9 Mar 1842 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, > > Roscommon, Ireland > > Collection: Roman Catholic > > Father: Joannis REILY > > Mother: Brigidae BERMINGHAM > > Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 > > > > > > All very interesting and tantalising!! > > > > Tim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] > > Sent: 10 May 2006 20:03 > > To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > > > > > Hello Tim, > > I sent an image of the 1871 English Census off list to you, but in the > > interests of everyone seeing it, I have transcribed it below: > > > > Andrew Carney 1863 Batley, Yorks > > John Carney 1843 Ireland Labourer > > Mary Carney 1845 Ireland > > Mary Carney 1870 Batley, Yorks > > Michael Carney 1867 Batley, Yorks > > Patrick Carney 1861 Ireland > > Bridget Kelly 1841 Sister in Law Ireland rag picker > > James Kelly 1861 Nephew Ireland. > > > > So, there you have it, they came to Yorkshire sometime between the birth > > of > > Patrick (1861) and the birth of Andrew (1863). I think a useful thing to > > do > > now would be to go onto FreeBMD and find the GRO reference for the birth > > of > > Andrew. Then order the cert from the GRO. That will give you Mary's maiden > > name. > > > > Plus, you now have the extra info of Bridget Kelly and James Kelly. I > > can't > > remember if Bridget is a widow or not, you can check when you get the > > image. > > > > She may be either a sister of John or of Mary or she may be the wife/widow > > of a brother of Mary. A bit more investigation will reveal which one. Of > > course, if you get Mary's maiden name, and you find it is Kelly, then it's > > > a > > > > very good chance she was married to a brother of Mary. On the other hand, > > she may be Mary's sister, who had a child out of wedlock. Many > > possibilities. > > > > I am now going to try, on the off chance, for the same people on the 1861 > > census, in case Patrick was born earlier in the year in Ireland, and then > > they moved to England that same year. > > > > Susan > > Canada > > > > > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > > > ============================== > > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, > > may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). > > Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is > > unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not > > disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete > > all copies immediately. > > > > Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of > > > this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is > > > the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for > > viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any > > views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > > necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding > > or fellow subsidiary companies. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > > > ============================== > > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > > > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > > > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta > rgetid=5429 > > > > > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete all copies immediately. > > Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding or fellow subsidiary companies. > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >

Many belated thanks to all who have assisted me in tracking down John and Mary. It is much appreciated! If I could persist for a moment longer, does anyone know how I would go about tracking down Patrick Carney (b c1861) in Ireland, possibly it seems in Killucan and Ballinameen (Roscommon)? If I can find the Patrick's birth certificate establishing parnets as John Carney and Mary Riley then it would be a major breakthrough and one of my relatives would surely jump on the next plane to Knock! Alternatively the marriage of John and Mary c 1860. Does anyone knwo where the records are held for such things? best wishes Tim -----Original Message----- From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] Sent: 11 May 2006 16:13 To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley Yes, you've made some progress and that's always good! Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Brooke" <tim.brooke@FaberMusic.com> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:47 AM Subject: RE: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > Many thanks Susan, > > I actually already have Mary's maiden name. It is RILEY. So Bridget KELLY > was a RILEY before her marriage. Bridget was a widow in 1871, yes. She > must > be the sister of Mary, as her relationship to John is sister in law. > Though > there again she could have been a KELLY who married a CARNEY brother of > John's and reverted back to her maiden name when she was widowed. This > latter scenario is less liely I think. > > So as I see it there are 2 avenues open for exploration: John and Mary's > marriage c 1860 or so, or Patrick's birth c 1861. Given the use for family > names it's quite likely presumably that Patrick would have been named > after > John or Mary's father, or grandfather.... > > from MaryPat's email the other day two of the possibilities for John and > Mary were from the same place, making them very likely candidates as they > didn't often marry outisde their immediate circle.. > > CARNY, Joannem Christening > Gender: Male > Christening Date: 29 May 1841 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, > Roscommon, Ireland > Collection: Roman Catholic > Father: Michaelis CARNY > Mother: Annae BEIRNE > Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 > > REILY, Mariam Christening > Gender: Female > Christening Date: 9 Mar 1842 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, > Roscommon, Ireland > Collection: Roman Catholic > Father: Joannis REILY > Mother: Brigidae BERMINGHAM > Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 > > > All very interesting and tantalising!! > > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] > Sent: 10 May 2006 20:03 > To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > > Hello Tim, > I sent an image of the 1871 English Census off list to you, but in the > interests of everyone seeing it, I have transcribed it below: > > Andrew Carney 1863 Batley, Yorks > John Carney 1843 Ireland Labourer > Mary Carney 1845 Ireland > Mary Carney 1870 Batley, Yorks > Michael Carney 1867 Batley, Yorks > Patrick Carney 1861 Ireland > Bridget Kelly 1841 Sister in Law Ireland rag picker > James Kelly 1861 Nephew Ireland. > > So, there you have it, they came to Yorkshire sometime between the birth > of > Patrick (1861) and the birth of Andrew (1863). I think a useful thing to > do > now would be to go onto FreeBMD and find the GRO reference for the birth > of > Andrew. Then order the cert from the GRO. That will give you Mary's maiden > name. > > Plus, you now have the extra info of Bridget Kelly and James Kelly. I > can't > remember if Bridget is a widow or not, you can check when you get the > image. > > She may be either a sister of John or of Mary or she may be the wife/widow > of a brother of Mary. A bit more investigation will reveal which one. Of > course, if you get Mary's maiden name, and you find it is Kelly, then it's > a > > very good chance she was married to a brother of Mary. On the other hand, > she may be Mary's sister, who had a child out of wedlock. Many > possibilities. > > I am now going to try, on the off chance, for the same people on the 1861 > census, in case Patrick was born earlier in the year in Ireland, and then > they moved to England that same year. > > Susan > Canada > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, > may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). > Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is > unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not > disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete > all copies immediately. > > Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of > this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is > the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for > viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any > views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding > or fellow subsidiary companies. > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete all copies immediately. Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding or fellow subsidiary companies. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

AFTER A CHILDHOOD AWAY FROM IRELAND One summer we slipped in at dawn, on plum-colored water in the sloppy quiet. The engines of the ship stopped. There was an eerie drawing near, a noiseless coming head-on of red roofs, walls, dogs, barley stooks. Then we were there. Cobh. Coming home. I had heard of this: the ground the emigrants resistless, weeping, laid their cheeks to, put their lips to kiss. Love is also a memory. I only stared. What I had lost was not land but the habit of land: whether of growing out of, or settling back on, or being defined by. I climb to your nursery. I stand listening to the dissonances of the summer's day ending. I bend to kiss you. Your cheeks are brick pink. -- Ms. Eavan BOLAND

Greetings all: My gt. grandfather JOHN IGOE born Ireland 1850 married in London in 1872. On his mar.cert. it mentions father "Lawrence". On the 1881 census it says he was from Sandyford, Dublin, but I have found no trace of him there. There is a Lawrence Igoe in Glasson, Westmeath, mentioned as a godfather and I know there are several Igoe families there, and in Muckenagh, Noughaval. My problem is to find where John was born and hopefully trace his family. I shall be visiting in September and am anxious to find a few clues before I arrive. John married Mary Jane Watts,born 1847,dau.of James Watts, boot & shoemaker, of Stillorgan.. I imagine one reason for them leaving Dublin was because he was catholic and she was church of Ireland. Any other suggestions? Thanks for your help. Irene of Seattle, former Londoner. ----- From: <IRISH-IN-UK-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: IRISH-IN-UK-D Digest V06 #69

Philip LARKIN, born in Coventry, England, in 1922, worked at numerous libraries including the University at Hull and Queen's University at Belfast. Larkin died in 1985. "DAYS" What are days for? Days are where we live. They come, they wake us Time and time over. They are to be happy in Where can we live but days? Ah, solving that question Brings the priest and the doctor In their long coats Running over the fields. -- Philip Larkin (1922-1985)

Jean. I believe Lady Lavery was also depicted as Brittanica on English coinage. Regards Rory --- "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: > SNIPPET: Sir John LAVERY (1856-1941), portrait and > landscape painter, was born in Belfast, educated in > Glasgow, London, and at the Academie Julian, Paris. > In 1883 he paid the first of many visits to > Grez-sur-Loing, south of Paris, where he was > influenced by "plein air" painting, then much in > vogue. A year later he was back in Glasgow and was > associated with the group of avant-garde painters > subsequently celebrated as "The Glasgow Boys." This > marked the beginning of his meteoric rise to fame, a > success that surprised even LAVERY himself. In 1888 > he was commissioned to paint the royal visit to the > International Exhibition in Glasgow. The commission > comprised more than 200 portraits, including that of > the queen, thus establishing him as a society > portrait painter. In 1896 he settled in London, > remaining there till near the end of his life. > During WWI LAVERY was appointed an official war > artist with the Royal Navy and afterwards was > knighted for his work. He was elected an acade! > mician of the Royal Academy in 1921. > > LAVERY's portrait of his second wife Hazel > (1880-1935) as Kathleen Ni Houlihan, personification > of Ireland, was used on Irish banknotes up to the > 1970s. Hazel (Lady LAVERY), also entered popular > legend for a supposed liaison with Michael COLLINS > during the negotiation of the Anglo-Irish treaty. > Following her death, LAVERY spent much time with his > stepdaughter in Ireland. > > For more information please see Kenneth McCONKEY, > "Sir John Lavery" (1993). > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million > records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the > world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

SNIPPET: The July-August 2005 issue of Dublin's "Ireland of the Welcomes" magazine has a very interesting, several-page illustrated article entitled, "Those Kerry Landscapes." The original paintings were done during a 1905 family holiday in the West of Ireland by the late Edward A. WILSON, English scientist, explorer, lecturer and artist. Additionally, there are some of WILSON's charming sketches of British birds and mammals and three old family photographs. The author is Christopher J. WILSON, who lives in Co. Wexford. His Great Uncle, "Uncle Ted," late husband of Oriana (Souper) WILSON, is better known as Edward WILSON of the Antarctic. It is noted that in August of 2005, one hundred years after the Kerry landscapes were painted, eleven stunning watercolours were presented to the Kerry County Museum, Tralee. Back issues of "Ireland of the Welcomes" magazines can be requested at the magazine's website A true nature lover, Edward A. WILSON wrote: "... Things of beauty give me the most intense pleasure, which lasts a long time and can be recalled at will for days, months, sometimes years. There is something in it we don't in the least understand." "I can't explain to anyone how one so can get to love a bird as to kiss every egg in its nest and to pray for them. The many little loves and pathos and small tragedies (of birds and animals) I have felt deeply and always when quite alone out in the country. I often wonder if they are all lost and gone. They were and are so much to me, and nothing to anyone else. I might try my best to get anyone else to feel what I do over them, but I never could." "... How hard it is to live and how hard it is to die. Isn't it a puzzle? And yet what a fund of joy there is in life all the same ... I sometimes think that Time is the only thing that prevents this life from being absolute heaven." WILSON was to perish with Captain Robert Falcon SCOTT (RN) eleven miles from safety, during their 1910-1912 Terra Nova Antarctic expedition. Christopher J. WILSON is a keen naturalist and ecologist, and Warden of the Wexford Wildfowl Reserve, a regular broadcaster on national radio and television, with publications to include "High Skies - Low Lands: an anthology of the Wexford Slobs and Harbour" jointly edited with David Rowe (1996) and "Edward Wilson's Nature Notebooks" (with Christopher's brother, Dr. David Wilson. The latter, "Edward Wilson's Nature Notebooks,' (2004), D. M. WILSON & C. J. WILSON (ISBN 1-873877-70-6), Reardon Publishing, is available at good bookshops and at Wexford Wildfowl Reserve, Co. Wexford; BirdWatch Ireland, Newcastle, Co. Wicklow; The South Pole Inn and the Anchor Guest House, Annascaul, Co. Kerry; Reardon Publishing, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England, and on line at www.edwardawilson.com; www.naturalrapture.ie; www.tomcrean.com; www.amazon.co.uk. All Royalties are being donated to Edward Wilson Memorial projects, per CJW.

Many thanks Susan, I actually already have Mary's maiden name. It is RILEY. So Bridget KELLY was a RILEY before her marriage. Bridget was a widow in 1871, yes. She must be the sister of Mary, as her relationship to John is sister in law. Though there again she could have been a KELLY who married a CARNEY brother of John's and reverted back to her maiden name when she was widowed. This latter scenario is less liely I think. So as I see it there are 2 avenues open for exploration: John and Mary's marriage c 1860 or so, or Patrick's birth c 1861. Given the use for family names it's quite likely presumably that Patrick would have been named after John or Mary's father, or grandfather.... from MaryPat's email the other day two of the possibilities for John and Mary were from the same place, making them very likely candidates as they didn't often marry outisde their immediate circle.. CARNY, Joannem Christening Gender: Male Christening Date: 29 May 1841 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, Roscommon, Ireland Collection: Roman Catholic Father: Michaelis CARNY Mother: Annae BEIRNE Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 REILY, Mariam Christening Gender: Female Christening Date: 9 Mar 1842 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, Roscommon, Ireland Collection: Roman Catholic Father: Joannis REILY Mother: Brigidae BERMINGHAM Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 All very interesting and tantalising!! Tim -----Original Message----- From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] Sent: 10 May 2006 20:03 To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley Hello Tim, I sent an image of the 1871 English Census off list to you, but in the interests of everyone seeing it, I have transcribed it below: Andrew Carney 1863 Batley, Yorks John Carney 1843 Ireland Labourer Mary Carney 1845 Ireland Mary Carney 1870 Batley, Yorks Michael Carney 1867 Batley, Yorks Patrick Carney 1861 Ireland Bridget Kelly 1841 Sister in Law Ireland rag picker James Kelly 1861 Nephew Ireland. So, there you have it, they came to Yorkshire sometime between the birth of Patrick (1861) and the birth of Andrew (1863). I think a useful thing to do now would be to go onto FreeBMD and find the GRO reference for the birth of Andrew. Then order the cert from the GRO. That will give you Mary's maiden name. Plus, you now have the extra info of Bridget Kelly and James Kelly. I can't remember if Bridget is a widow or not, you can check when you get the image. She may be either a sister of John or of Mary or she may be the wife/widow of a brother of Mary. A bit more investigation will reveal which one. Of course, if you get Mary's maiden name, and you find it is Kelly, then it's a very good chance she was married to a brother of Mary. On the other hand, she may be Mary's sister, who had a child out of wedlock. Many possibilities. I am now going to try, on the off chance, for the same people on the 1861 census, in case Patrick was born earlier in the year in Ireland, and then they moved to England that same year. Susan Canada ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete all copies immediately. Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding or fellow subsidiary companies. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

Yes, you've made some progress and that's always good! Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Brooke" <tim.brooke@FaberMusic.com> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:47 AM Subject: RE: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > Many thanks Susan, > > I actually already have Mary's maiden name. It is RILEY. So Bridget KELLY > was a RILEY before her marriage. Bridget was a widow in 1871, yes. She > must > be the sister of Mary, as her relationship to John is sister in law. > Though > there again she could have been a KELLY who married a CARNEY brother of > John's and reverted back to her maiden name when she was widowed. This > latter scenario is less liely I think. > > So as I see it there are 2 avenues open for exploration: John and Mary's > marriage c 1860 or so, or Patrick's birth c 1861. Given the use for family > names it's quite likely presumably that Patrick would have been named > after > John or Mary's father, or grandfather.... > > from MaryPat's email the other day two of the possibilities for John and > Mary were from the same place, making them very likely candidates as they > didn't often marry outisde their immediate circle.. > > CARNY, Joannem Christening > Gender: Male > Christening Date: 29 May 1841 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, > Roscommon, Ireland > Collection: Roman Catholic > Father: Michaelis CARNY > Mother: Annae BEIRNE > Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 > > REILY, Mariam Christening > Gender: Female > Christening Date: 9 Mar 1842 Recorded in: Killucan and ballinameen, > Roscommon, Ireland > Collection: Roman Catholic > Father: Joannis REILY > Mother: Brigidae BERMINGHAM > Source: FHL Film 989741 Dates: 1833 - 1850 > > > All very interesting and tantalising!! > > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] > Sent: 10 May 2006 20:03 > To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > > Hello Tim, > I sent an image of the 1871 English Census off list to you, but in the > interests of everyone seeing it, I have transcribed it below: > > Andrew Carney 1863 Batley, Yorks > John Carney 1843 Ireland Labourer > Mary Carney 1845 Ireland > Mary Carney 1870 Batley, Yorks > Michael Carney 1867 Batley, Yorks > Patrick Carney 1861 Ireland > Bridget Kelly 1841 Sister in Law Ireland rag picker > James Kelly 1861 Nephew Ireland. > > So, there you have it, they came to Yorkshire sometime between the birth > of > Patrick (1861) and the birth of Andrew (1863). I think a useful thing to > do > now would be to go onto FreeBMD and find the GRO reference for the birth > of > Andrew. Then order the cert from the GRO. That will give you Mary's maiden > name. > > Plus, you now have the extra info of Bridget Kelly and James Kelly. I > can't > remember if Bridget is a widow or not, you can check when you get the > image. > > She may be either a sister of John or of Mary or she may be the wife/widow > of a brother of Mary. A bit more investigation will reveal which one. Of > course, if you get Mary's maiden name, and you find it is Kelly, then it's > a > > very good chance she was married to a brother of Mary. On the other hand, > she may be Mary's sister, who had a child out of wedlock. Many > possibilities. > > I am now going to try, on the off chance, for the same people on the 1861 > census, in case Patrick was born earlier in the year in Ireland, and then > they moved to England that same year. > > Susan > Canada > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, > may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). > Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is > unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not > disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete > all copies immediately. > > Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of > this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is > the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for > viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any > views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding > or fellow subsidiary companies. > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >

SNIPPET: Sir John LAVERY (1856-1941), portrait and landscape painter, was born in Belfast, educated in Glasgow, London, and at the Academie Julian, Paris. In 1883 he paid the first of many visits to Grez-sur-Loing, south of Paris, where he was influenced by "plein air" painting, then much in vogue. A year later he was back in Glasgow and was associated with the group of avant-garde painters subsequently celebrated as "The Glasgow Boys." This marked the beginning of his meteoric rise to fame, a success that surprised even LAVERY himself. In 1888 he was commissioned to paint the royal visit to the International Exhibition in Glasgow. The commission comprised more than 200 portraits, including that of the queen, thus establishing him as a society portrait painter. In 1896 he settled in London, remaining there till near the end of his life. During WWI LAVERY was appointed an official war artist with the Royal Navy and afterwards was knighted for his work. He was elected an acade! mician of the Royal Academy in 1921. LAVERY's portrait of his second wife Hazel (1880-1935) as Kathleen Ni Houlihan, personification of Ireland, was used on Irish banknotes up to the 1970s. Hazel (Lady LAVERY), also entered popular legend for a supposed liaison with Michael COLLINS during the negotiation of the Anglo-Irish treaty. Following her death, LAVERY spent much time with his stepdaughter in Ireland. For more information please see Kenneth McCONKEY, "Sir John Lavery" (1993).

Hi Tim, There is no record in Griffiths' for a Patrick GREEN in Tuam, in fact there is only Patrick GREEN living in Galway and his is listed as living in the Parish of Rahoon Co.Galway. There is a GREEN living in TUAM at the time of the Valuations 1848-64, James GREEN, living in the Townland of Carracloon, in the Parish of Tuam. In fact there are only 3 GREEN's living in Co. Galway at this time. (Could it possibly be that his father was Christened as James Patrick, known as Patrick?). This might account for him saying he was from Tuam? I have only one WALLACE, James living on the Galway Road, in the Parish of Tuam, Co. Galway. There are only 5 William WALLACE'S living in Co. Galway at the time of the Valuations. 1 in (Parishes only, although I do have the Townlands), Ballynakill, Belclare, Inishmore, Killower and in St. Nicholas' in Galway Town. Of course these only apply if their families stayed in Galway during the period 1848-64 for the time of the valuations. If they had also moved over to the UK, these of course wouldn't apply! slan Cyril Newsome Loch Garman... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Josephy" <walterjosephy@shaw.ca> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 4:51 PM Subject: [UK-Irish] GREEN and WALLACE of Tuam, Galway to Leigh, Lancs > Hello listers: > I thought I'd post my interests and dates, and see if anyone had any > comments and suggestions. > > John GREEN and Mary WALLACE were married 9 September 9 1850 in Leigh, > Lancashire at St. Joseph's Roman Catholic Church. The church records state > they were both from Tuam, Galway. The civil certificate states John's father > was Patrick GREEN and Mary's father was William WALLACE. > > John and Mary had the following known children: > John born 2 Mar 1852 (died before 1862) > Margaret born 22 May 1853 (died before 1867) > Mary born 12 Aug 1857 (my gggrandmother) > John born 3 June 1862 > Margaret born 11 Jan 1867 > > I cannot locate them with any certainty on the 1851 UK Census. > I have ordered some church records from Tuam, and will be going through > those next week at the Family History Centre here in my town. > Thanks, > Susan > Canada > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

The spellings Kearny/Kearney should also be considered. Might be clearer to speak of moving to GB than UK. Sean On 5/10/06, Walter Josephy <walterjosephy@shaw.ca> wrote: > Hi again, > I did check the 1861, but I believe (I could be wrong) that all the John > Carneys in England at that date would be too young, and most of them would > be "son" rather than "head" > > Looks like Patrick was born when John was 18. Not unless Patrick is Mary's > son from a previous relationships. I see that on the 1871 census she gives > her birthdate as 1845, yet I noticed you gave her birth date as 1841. Could > be just a transcription error, but it could also be Mary trying to make > herself younger. > Susan > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > To unsub or change your subscription: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Irish/IRISH-IN-UK.html > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >

Thanks Susan, Much appreciated. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] Sent: 10 May 2006 16:52 To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley Dear Tim, I have to go out for a bit, but when I get back, I'll have a good look for the 1871 for you. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Brooke" <tim.brooke@FaberMusic.com> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: RE: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > Dear Susan, > > I don't have Ancestry so haven't been able to view the 1871 Census. If you > could send that page I'd be most grateful. > > Best wishes and thanks in advance > > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] > Sent: 10 May 2006 15:17 > To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > > Hi Cyril, > Thank you for your posting... > I did have a bit of a search for John Carney and Mary Riley, and believe I > may have found John on the 1871 (English), but I won't search any more > until > > I hear from the original poster to see if he's already gone down this > route. > Susan > Quesnel, British Columbia > (Cariboo Country - still frosty every morning) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cyril Newsome" <cnews@eircom.net> > To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 12:26 AM > Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > >>I apologise from this end also Susan, >> >> on reviewing Tim's original posting, he doesn't indicate which Census he >> was >> on about either, so sorry for that. >> >> slan >> >> Cyril Newsome >> Loch Garman... >> (Sunshine at last!!) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Walter Josephy" <walterjosephy@shaw.ca> >> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley >> >> >>> Cyril, I am sorry, we are talking at cross-purposes. >>> I misread, and thought that John Carney and Mary Riley had already moved >> to >>> UK, and hence I was asking about the year of the census, so he could >>> pinpoint the approximate year they moved. >>> I know what Griffiths' Valuation is and The Tithe Appointments is, as >> well, >>> but I do thank you for your response. >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== >>> The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: >>> http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ >>> >>> ============================== >>> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >>> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >>> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== >> The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: >> http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, > may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). > Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is > unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not > disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete > all copies immediately. > > Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of > this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is > the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for > viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any > views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding > or fellow subsidiary companies. > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== To unsub or change your subscription: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Irish/IRISH-IN-UK.html ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete all copies immediately. Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding or fellow subsidiary companies. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________

Dear Susan, I don't have Ancestry so haven't been able to view the 1871 Census. If you could send that page I'd be most grateful. Best wishes and thanks in advance Tim -----Original Message----- From: Walter Josephy [mailto:walterjosephy@shaw.ca] Sent: 10 May 2006 15:17 To: IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley Hi Cyril, Thank you for your posting... I did have a bit of a search for John Carney and Mary Riley, and believe I may have found John on the 1871 (English), but I won't search any more until I hear from the original poster to see if he's already gone down this route. Susan Quesnel, British Columbia (Cariboo Country - still frosty every morning) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cyril Newsome" <cnews@eircom.net> To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley >I apologise from this end also Susan, > > on reviewing Tim's original posting, he doesn't indicate which Census he > was > on about either, so sorry for that. > > slan > > Cyril Newsome > Loch Garman... > (Sunshine at last!!) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Josephy" <walterjosephy@shaw.ca> > To: <IRISH-IN-UK-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:50 PM > Subject: Re: [UK-Irish] John Carney & Mary Riley > > >> Cyril, I am sorry, we are talking at cross-purposes. >> I misread, and thought that John Carney and Mary Riley had already moved > to >> UK, and hence I was asking about the year of the census, so he could >> pinpoint the approximate year they moved. >> I know what Griffiths' Valuation is and The Tithe Appointments is, as > well, >> but I do thank you for your response. >> >> >> >> ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== >> The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: >> http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >> >> >> > > > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== > The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > ==== IRISH-IN-UK Mailing List ==== The Irish-In-UK Mailing List Website: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishUK/ ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ The information and attachments (if any) in this email are confidential, may be legally privileged and are intended solely for the addressee(s). Access, copying or re-use of information within it by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient you should not disclose, copy or use any part of it. Please notify the sender and delete all copies immediately. Faber Music Limited is not responsible for the completeness or accuracy of this communication as it has been transmitted over a public network. It is the recipient's responsibility to scan this email and any attachments for viruses. If in doubt please verify the authenticity of the sender. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Faber Music Limited or any of its holding or fellow subsidiary companies. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________