I do appreciate your knowledge and your contribution to this page. Perhaps you could answer these questions that I have ben wondering about for a while. I know that the prefix O' means grandson and Ni' means granddaughterbut what do the prefixes Ua, Ha and Hi mean when used with a surname? Thanks Philip O'Brien Jerr Kelly <jerrykelly@att.net> wrote: Hi Meg, Thank you. I'm of limited use on Scots genealogy but I have no expertise in English genealogy. Sorry I can't tell about the � Muireadhaigh / O'Murray yet. But on your Cahills of Clare side, it turns out you're another member of the U� Fhiachrach, like me and MaryPat. Your Cahills are actually the � Cathail of the Cine�l �eda of the U� Fhiachrach In Deiscirt (U.F. of the South) of the U� Fhiachrach of the Connachta of the F�ni. They were originally located in what is now the barony of Kiltartan, Co. Galway but are now found mainly in Co. Clare. In the pagan period, their ancestor-god was Conn. The � Maoilmhiadhaigh are a branch of the Muintir Eolais ('People of Knowledge') of the Conmaicne R�in of the Conmaicne ('Descendants of Conmac') of the Laighin. They were chiefs (the Irish word is r� = "king") of Muintir Chearbhall�in in Magh Nisi in the barony and county of Leitrim, and they were sometimes kings of all Muintir Eolais. In the pagan period, the ancestor-gods of the Conmaicne were Conmac ('Head-Son' or 'Wolf-Son', the wolf was regarded as a noble animal by the Celts, the equivalent in other cultures of the lion) or Lugaid mac Con and Fergus Mac R�ich ('Super-Choice son of Great Steed'). Hope that's helpful, Jerry Kelly NA GAEIL MAGAZINE (coming soon to an internet near you) ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael c haell mulvey" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:15 PM Subject: [Irish-American] Murray/Mulvey - Roscommon > I was wondering Jerry if I could "pick your brain" again. You have been so generous giving out information on various surnames. And this is information that otherwise most of us would have a hard time finding without a fee being involved or a trip to a specialized library. But you are obviously enjoying sharing your "wealth"! > > I would like to ask you what you know of the Murrays & Mulveys of Roscommon. And the Cahills of Clare. I am in no rush for an answer, so you can reply at your convenience. > > Is your study connected to Irish names only or do you have knowledge of Scots/English as well? I have Scots and English as well (my Dad's side) and a relative told me that my great great grandfather, when he emigrated was the only Scot on a street with all Irish in Cambridge MA and that he'd sit out on his stoop at night and play Boyne Waters on his flute much to his nieghbors dismay! > > Happy St. Patrick's Day > > Meg > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > > ==== IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List ==== > The IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List Website and Lookup Service > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > Use this to unsub, change your subscription, links, etc. > ==== IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List ==== The IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List Website and Lookup Service http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ Use this to unsub, change your subscription, links, etc.

Hi Philip, Thank you and good question. Just as you point out, in the nominative case (using any of these words as the subject of a sentence), Ó is grandson, Ní is grand-daughter and used as the female form of Ó surnames, Mac is son, and Nic is a word for daughter used in the female form of Mac surnames. Ua is an older form of Ó which is still used in some dialects. Í is an older form of the word Uí meaning 'descendants' which is used in tribe names (Uí Fhiachrach) and as the plural of Ó surnames. For example, Uí Dhomhnaill means O'Donnells. Mic ('Sons') or the older Meic is used as the plural of Mac surnames. For example, "Tá na Mic Ádhaimh anseo do lón" means 'The Mac Adams are here for lunch." For a number of grammatical reasons, including adding the word Na (plural 'the' in the nominative case) to the tribe name or plural surname, 'h' is added before a vowel. So we wind up with Na hUí Fhiachrach ('the Uí Fhiachrach') or Na hUí Cheallaigh ('the O'Kellys'). So that's an example of when you'll see hUí or hÍ in the Irish texts, which wind up as Hui or Hi or Hy in the English texts. But there's more. Partly because Irish is a couple of thousand years older than English, Irish is a more elegant and complicated language than English. So we had an accusative case (the nominative is used in its place today), we have a dative case (using the word as the object of a preposition), we have a vocative case (addressing the person, place, or thing when speaking to it) and we have a genitive case (using the word as the object of an understood but unstated 'of'). Taking the genitive case as an example, Uí means 'of grandson' and is the genitive of Ó. When used in the genitive, Ó or Ua means 'of descendants' and is the genitive of Uí. In contrast, English has none of this, having developed as a barter pidgen between German-speaking Anglo-Saxons and French-speaking Normans at country markets during the Middle Ages ("Me wantum porque, you Anglo-Saxon chien" / "No, no getum porque, only pig today, you Norman dog."). Not really the basis for an elegant language. English got its first dictionary in 1755 (Samuel Johnson). The Irish language's earliest surviving dictionaries date to the 7th century in the form of lengthy and detailed multi-lingual glossaries and are based on the 6th century exemplars of Isidore of Seville (pre-Islamic Christian Spain). Hope that's helpful, Jerry Kelly NA GAEIL MAGAZINE (coming soon to an internet near you) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip OBrien" <manannan@sbcglobal.net> To: <IRISH-AMERICAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Irish-American] Murray/Mulvey - Roscommon I do appreciate your knowledge and your contribution to this page. Perhaps you could answer these questions that I have ben wondering about for a while. I know that the prefix O' means grandson and Ni' means granddaughterbut what do the prefixes Ua, Ha and Hi mean when used with a surname? Thanks Philip O'Brien