Murph, As I suggested in my previous post, 12 markers aren't enough to give you the "precise" information for which you are looking. Upgrade to 25, if your project allows, or 37, which you can do without being part of a project. I noted that my cousin had a 25 marker test, of which he originally had an exact match on 12. This man didn't share a surname, and our MCRA was so far back as to be insignificant to our search. Now with the 25/25 match, the probability of MCRA is 50% for 3 generations (75 years) to 95% within 13 generations (325 years). Our GrGf could have been the MCRA within 3 generations, which would not place us in IRE, as he was in the USA for 80 years (all childbearing years), and was himself, about 3 generations old! 10 generations would be only 250 years, which just barely places us in IRE. In order to narrow the probability of the MCRA, my cousin and his 25 match have updated to a 37 marker test, and I'll keep you updated if you write to me, offlist at [email protected] . The bottom line is that you should upgrade from 12 markers in order to pinpoint more information. I don't know what one gets with a 12 marker test, but we received a longitude latitude measure, which puts us in Cork, IRE, and thus confirms our family "believed to be from Cork, but no one knows for sure" as true! I'm not knowledgeable enough to answer the "estimate" Nial question, but my cousin didn't hit in that line. Best Regards, Patricia [email protected] wrote: Don't forget to add/check your surname to the Irish-American Mailing List Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/Today's Topics: 1. DNA testing and (lack of) uses (Murph) From: Murph <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 22:33:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [IRISH-AMER] DNA testing and (lack of) uses Dear Michael, Patrica, ALL, Yes, I am a member of FTDNA and have my tests online, as well as my surname group and the geographic group of Irish Heritage, which yes, Nial of the Nine Hostages is reputed to be R1b or whatever it was (sorry do not have the exact data in front of me but I know exactly what you are talking about)---the problem I saw, which may or may not be valid, is they "estimated" Niall's DNA halpotype/group --- now how exactly one would "estimate" DNA I do not know and I am sure they have some basis, but...... I was more interested in the practical uses today for research as all of us doing Irish research cannot get records much later than the famine years IF THAT and this seems like a good way to get back further, but I am a bit lost. I did read the definition of my halpotype and yes, what Michael noted I think is what they say on ther FTDNA pages for these groups, but I always wondered, and still do as a "goal" of family research is to figure out who made it through the famine (as my Murphy's did not emigrate to the US till the mid-1920s, right during the civil war in Ireland...in fact my GF was married in England in 1921 as he was there working as a miner) --- and I too matched several people that do not share my surname, odd, so the DNA testing must go back so far it is useless for more recent purposes --- I noticed the FTDNA site has a page for an algorithum for making a closer "Most Recent Ancestor " calculation with added traditional research and further testing of cousins.... but the answers I was and am hoping for are back a tad more than that, but certainly not into BC.....more like who was the first of my Surname in Ireland ....I was looking in the 1659 Census returns for Co. Sligo, some book, and ONE of my surname is listed and it happens to be the Christian name that is most common in my family, John....did not get the book though as I will wait till I get to Dublin as I am sure thay have them --- Even the surname project seems spotty at best..... Anyone know how to better use DNA results (12 Y DNA that is)? Murph --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. To contact the IRISH-AMERICAN list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the IRISH-AMERICAN mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text.