Dear Michael, Patrica, ALL, Yes, I am a member of FTDNA and have my tests online, as well as my surname group and the geographic group of Irish Heritage, which yes, Nial of the Nine Hostages is reputed to be R1b or whatever it was (sorry do not have the exact data in front of me but I know exactly what you are talking about)---the problem I saw, which may or may not be valid, is they "estimated" Niall's DNA halpotype/group --- now how exactly one would "estimate" DNA I do not know and I am sure they have some basis, but...... I was more interested in the practical uses today for research as all of us doing Irish research cannot get records much later than the famine years IF THAT and this seems like a good way to get back further, but I am a bit lost. I did read the definition of my halpotype and yes, what Michael noted I think is what they say on ther FTDNA pages for these groups, but I always wondered, and still do as a "goal" of family research is to figure out who made it through the famine (as my Murphy's did not emigrate to the US till the mid-1920s, right during the civil war in Ireland...in fact my GF was married in England in 1921 as he was there working as a miner) --- and I too matched several people that do not share my surname, odd, so the DNA testing must go back so far it is useless for more recent purposes --- I noticed the FTDNA site has a page for an algorithum for making a closer "Most Recent Ancestor " calculation with added traditional research and further testing of cousins.... but the answers I was and am hoping for are back a tad more than that, but certainly not into BC.....more like who was the first of my Surname in Ireland ....I was looking in the 1659 Census returns for Co. Sligo, some book, and ONE of my surname is listed and it happens to be the Christian name that is most common in my family, John....did not get the book though as I will wait till I get to Dublin as I am sure thay have them --- Even the surname project seems spotty at best..... Anyone know how to better use DNA results (12 Y DNA that is)? Murph --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.