Hi Phyllis, We have a couple of families, like your Doyles who are Scandinavian/Viking in origin. We also have a number of families who are Normans, who in turn were originally Danes. But most Irish families are Irish, not Viking nor Norman. Remember that the Irish aren't a race, but a nation made up of a number of different migrations. We had (and still have) tribes of tall pale blonds (Leinster), short freckled red-heads, middle height and tall sandy blond/brunettes (Connacht), short stocky barrel-chested dark-complexioned brunettes (west Cork), tall big-boned Fir Bolg with jet black hair (Kerry), just to name a few. In addition to the Irish who have been in Ireland since (or before) the last ice age, we had identifiable immigrations by Celtic tribes like the Brigantes (the Gorman family is part of this tribe), the Menapii (the Monaghans seem to descend from these), the Belgii (Fir Bolg in Irish, including my wife), etc. Then we had later migrations/invasions/settlements by Vikings (your Doyles) and Normans (Burkes, Fitzgeralds, Butlers, etc.), all of whom eventually became Irish-speaking. So eventually, all these people became Celts, which is a linguistic group (i.e., Celtic-speaking), not a racial/genetic group. I would suggest that today an Irishman/Irishwoman is a person born in Ireland who wants to be called an Irishman/Irishwoman. (Some people in the north don't want to be called Irish.) In contrast, a Gael in the Irish language is a Gaelic speaker, no matter where born. A Gael can be of any ethnicity and of any citizenship. I'm a Gael even though I was born and raised in America. I have friends who are Gaeil who have never been to Ireland. Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, - Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Phyllis Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] So What Is An Irishman, Anyway? Okay ... here's the next question. My mother, who is so very Irish, has black hair and blue eyes, with fair skin that freckles. Does this tell you anything about her Irish genetic makeup ... possibly Turkey, Balkan, etc influence on the Irish? I have read that the Basques of the Iberian Peninsula accounts for the black hair. Could the black hair possibly have come from a Mediterranean line such as the Turkish etc areas. Btw, I am told that Mediterranean in the sense of the Alpha Thallasemia Trait encompasses Italy, Northern Africa, the Middle East, and Asia/Oriental. And there are other Mediterranean traits, as well. I may have another of them .. it is being explored by testing at this time. This blows all my concepts of what Irish means (genetically). I always think of Irish as being Scandanavian/Viking in origin. One of our strong lines is DOYLE, which is supposed to be descendants of Vikings. So where am I going wrong on that one? The DOYLES had the blonde hair/blue eyes, our HAGARTY/HEGARTY line had the black hair & blue eyes. Our DOYLES were from Roscommon & Galway, our HAGARTY/HEGARTYs were from Longford, Parish Templemichael ... and still are there, in the Farnagh area of northern Longford. The deceased are buried in the Ballymacormack Cemetery and the living cousins are still farming. Thanks for your information. I am puzzling through all this and I have to tell you, am rethinking the concept of "What Is An Irishman" !! (Besides being the best people in the world, that is!!) If you had to come up with the recipe of that an Irishman is, you could throw in many ingredients, apparently! that would make him a hybrid of the best sort, and hybrids are usually the strongest organisms. Cheers! Phyllis >In the studies mentioned, the closest European population group would >be the one in the Balkans region. The gene may have been transmitted >with the early neolithic settlers from the Middle East who came across >Anatolia (modern day Turkey). This would be Mediterranean but not >necessarily Oriental or Asian. > > Because of the Mediterranean element, my guess is that it was >originally transmitted from somewhere in Asia perhaps along a trading >route and then through southern France, southern Germany, or >Switzerland. > > > > > >type O is disproportionately prevalent in both Ireland and among the Berbers of North Africa. > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jerry, Thank you so very much for this informative bit of information. Ro [email protected] wrote: Hi Phyllis, We have a couple of families, like your Doyles who are Scandinavian/Viking in origin. We also have a number of families who are Normans, who in turn were originally Danes. But most Irish families are Irish, not Viking nor Norman. Remember that the Irish aren't a race, but a nation made up of a number of different migrations. We had (and still have) tribes of tall pale blonds (Leinster), short freckled red-heads, middle height and tall sandy blond/brunettes (Connacht), short stocky barrel-chested dark-complexioned brunettes (west Cork), tall big-boned Fir Bolg with jet black hair (Kerry), just to name a few. In addition to the Irish who have been in Ireland since (or before) the last ice age, we had identifiable immigrations by Celtic tribes like the Brigantes (the Gorman family is part of this tribe), the Menapii (the Monaghans seem to descend from these), the Belgii (Fir Bolg in Irish, including my wife), etc. Then we had later migrations/invasions/settlements by Vikings (your Doyles) and Normans (Burkes, Fitzgeralds, Butlers, etc.), all of whom eventually became Irish-speaking. So eventually, all these people became Celts, which is a linguistic group (i.e., Celtic-speaking), not a racial/genetic group. I would suggest that today an Irishman/Irishwoman is a person born in Ireland who wants to be called an Irishman/Irishwoman. (Some people in the north don't want to be called Irish.) In contrast, a Gael in the Irish language is a Gaelic speaker, no matter where born. A Gael can be of any ethnicity and of any citizenship. I'm a Gael even though I was born and raised in America. I have friends who are Gaeil who have never been to Ireland. Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, - Jerry Rose Mary A.(Mc Grath)Neal