> > >I'm curious about your comment that your ancestor probably came from Tipperary town because no townland was noted > Yes, Nora, most annoying! Since every single baptism and marriage I obtained for this family had not one townland noted, I am now transcribing the whole Griffiths Valuation (from Otherdays.com) for the civil parishes of the Tipperary Catholic parish and then will look at where the Flanagan and O'Connor names occur...since I didn't get a good baptism for my Timothy, I think he was from out of the Cashel & Emly diocese and moved there because that is where his wife, Catherine Flanagan lived (I have her baptism). I have also started transcribing the Tithes for the Tipperary Catholic parish which were conducted about 20-30 years previously. Hopefully, both of these exercises will give me some clues as to where my great grandfather was born in County Tipperary. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

Great site, Gene. Love the graphics. What program did you use for your logo? -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

Dear Friends, I have been undertaking the task of developing a FOTTRELL FAMILY WEB SITE. . http://Mywebpages.comcast.net/Fottrell.net After years of help from Ann Gregg, Pat Connors, Jane Lyons, Willie O'Rourke, Elizabeth Cardinal. Bev Ellison and Anthony Roche as well as hundreds of others (and the FHC of LDS), I have been able to trace my immediate family back to Ireland in 1790. As part of this research, I have identified over 100 other surnames thru marriage, sponsers, god-parents etc. If you go to the Other Surnames section, you will possibly be able to find some ancestors. I have also found FOTTRELL branches in Belgium and Australia as well as at least three branches in the United States. I wish you good luck. If you are able to add anything to this project, I would be pleased to add it. Gene Fottrell New Jersey, USA

Dear Listers -- Just a note to say don't give up on making headway in your research. Serendipty is alive and well! Perhaps you have an address or a notation on the back of old photograph that can provide a breakthrough. A couple years ago I posted a query to an e-mail list regarding a few WWI era "mystery photos" I had acquired copies of at a FORD/GEORGE family reunion in Milwaukie, OR. One photo from an album was of a group of soldiers taken in England identified as - "A. G. FORD, Reg. CARGILL and Fred BLOOMFIELD." I wondered if "A. G." could be my father's eldest brother, but since I had been given incorrect information by an aunt years before re Alfred's middle name, I wasn't sure. I knew that Alfred FORD had been born in Liverpool, father Michael Ford/e from Ireland and mother Sarah Ann GEORGE, a Liverpudlian, and that the family had lived at #50 New Road, Tuebrook, West Derby, Liverpool, Lancashire England for 30 years ending circa 1922-23. After posting the scant notations on the back of three photos with some descriptions to the e-mail list, I finally heard back from a lister who said that he knew someone in Brackley Northants, England, whose father was a Reginald CARGILL with Liverpool connections and gave me his address. Knowing that it was a longshot, I nevertheless copied a couple of the old photos and sent a letter off to England three weeks ago, enclosing a prepaid IRC (International Reply Coupon) from the postoffice for stamps for a reply. I asked if he recognized any of the people in the photos. Imagine my delight when I received a reply yesterday morning. Turns out this gentleman's CARGILL family and my FORD family were neighbors and friends for years on New Road in Liverpool. The CARGILL family had a provisions shop. Enclosed in his letter to me was an absolutely wonderful photograph of my paternal grandmother, Mrs. Sarah (George) FORD, in her "best dress" taken with his CARGILL family circa 1931. Sarah had been widowed and emigrated to the USA in 1925, then returned back to visit family and friends in England a few years later. He said she had stayed with them for three months and that he was the little boy "front and centre" in the photograph. Mr. CARGILL said that he was a writer and painter and almost 82. My letter had made his day! He knew that my uncle Alfred had resided in Seattle (true!). He also said that his father, like Alfred, his friend, had been injured by mustard gas but survived the war. They were evidently in the Somme in 1918 together with its terrible fighting (60,000 Allied troups dead in one day!) and were army buddies as part of the "Liverpool Pals" Battalions. He said that his father and my uncle likely attended school together and possibly also church, so I will try to find out something more regarding St. John's. Bottom line - Keep searching, don't give up! Jean

hi although nothing to do with me your efforts made me speechless you certainly deserved to win, congratulations, i think i have given up on mine time and energy are fast running out best wishes for your efforts in future Liz Hamilton, one of the Kyle, Mcculloch line god bless iretonhenry@aol.com

SNIPPET: Katherine Ann PORTER was no fan of Communism, but she, like many writers and artists, was appalled by the "witch hunts" of the 1940s and 1950s led by Senator Joe McCARTHY and others determined to root out Communist sympathizers. When PORTER, a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer of poems, novels, biographies, screenplays, and librettos, was invited to teach at Colorado State College, she was asked to sign an "oath of allegiance" to the United States government (and against Communism). PORTER found the request offensive and sent the school's president, Dr. William ROSS, the following letter dated March 4, 1951: "Dear Dr. Ross, I cannot possibly sign the oath of allegiance you sent me, and I'm sorry I was not told in your first letter that this would be required of me, for a good deal of time and trouble would have been spared for both of us. This is the first time I've encountered this dangerous nonsense, but I have known from the beginning what my answer must be. My memory goes back easily thirty years to the time this law was passed in Colorado, in a time of war, fright, and public hysteria being whipped up by the same kind of people who are doing this work now. Only now we're worse for thirty years of world disaster. I believed then, and still do believe, that this requirement of an oath of allegiance was more of a device for embarrassing and humiliating honest persons than an effective trap for traitors and subversive people. We, all of us, do quite a lot of ceremonial oath-taking on many important occasions of life as an act of faith, a public testimony of honorable inten! tion, and it is the mere truth that an oath binds only those persons who meant to keep their promises, anyway, with or without an oath. The others cannot be touched or controlled in any such way. We all know this is so why assist at such a cynical fraud. I'm entirely hostile to the principle of Communism and to every form of totalitarian society, whether it calls itself Communism, Fascism, or whatever .... It is not the oath itself that troubles me. There is nothing in it I do not naturally and instinctively observe as I have and will. My people are the old stock. They helped to found colonies, to break new trails, and to survey wildernesses. They set up little log cabin academies, all the way from Virginia and Pennsylvania to Kentucky and clear into Texas. They have fought in all the wars, they have been governors of states, and military attaches, and at least one ambassador among us. We're not suspect, nor liable to the questionings of the kind of people we would! never have invited to our tables. You can see what the root of my resentment is. My many family branches helped make this country. My feeling about my country and its history is as tender and intimate as about my own parents, and I really suffer to have them violated by the irresponsible acts of cheap politicians who prey on public fears in times of trouble and force their betters into undignified positions ... Nothing really effective is being done here against either Communism or Fascism, at least not by the politicians because they do not want anything settled. Their occupation and careers would be gone. We're going to be made sorry very soon for our refusal to reject unconditionally the kind of evil that disguises itself as patriotism, as love of virtue, as religious faith, as the crusader against the internal enemy. These people themselves are the enemy. I do not propose to sit down quietly and be told by them my what my duty is to my country and my government.! My feelings and beliefs are nothing they could understand. I do not like being told that I must take an oath of allegiance to my government and flag under the threat of losing my employment if I do not. This is blackmail, and I have never been blackmailed successfully yet and do not intend to begin now. So please destroy the contract we have made, as it is no longer valid ... Dr. Ross, I thank you for your courteous letter and hope you will take my word that this letter has nothing personal in it. That towards you I intend nothing but human respect in the assurance that I believe I understand your situation which must he extremely difficult.... Any real study of great literature must take in the human life at every possible level and search out every dark corner. And its natural territory is the whole human experience, no less. It does not astonish me that young people love to hear about these things, love to talk about them, and think about them. It is sometimes s! urprising how gay my classes can be, as if we had found some spring of joy in the tragic state to which all of us are born. This is the service the arts do, and the totalitarian's first idea is to destroy exactly this. They can do great harm but not for long. I am not in the least afraid of them. With my sincere good wishes, and apologies for this overlong letter. Yours, Katherine Anne Porter." (See full letter, "Letters of a Nation," ed. Andrew Carroll (1997). Historical context -- Joseph Raymond McCARTHY (1908-1957), Republican U. S. senator from Grand Chute WI and a graduate of Marquette University was one of the most controversial figures in American politics. He gained worldwide attention in the early 1950s by charging that Communists had infiltrated the government. McCARTHY conducted several public investigations of Communist influence on U. S. foreign policy. Some persons praised him as a patriot, but others condemned him for publicly accusing people of disloyalty without sufficient evidence. His widely scattered charges gave rise to a new word, "McCarthyism." His four-year finger-pointing campaign struck fear throughout America - both fear that Communists might indeed have penetrated all parts of society and fear of being named as a "Red." A number of circumstances caused many Americans to believe his charges - frustrations of the Korean War, the Chinese Communist conquest of mainland China, and the arrest and convict! ion of several Americans as Russian spies. McCARTHY was ultimately severely censured after his nationally televised hearings in 1954. He wrote two books, "America's Retreat from Victory: The Story of George Catlett Marshall" (1951) and "McCarthyism: The Fight for America" (1952).

I went back to Troy in 1997 and using the directories and censuses, I tried to figure out the year of his death. I knew my ggrandmother had died in 1892 and through the censuses I found he remarried a Catherine. I found them together in the 1900 census but not the 1910 census, where I found her living with a nephew and listed as a widow. Same with the city directories. However, like many other entries, the directories did not give his date of death. I also checked the NYS state census for 1905 found Catherine by herself, with the nephew. From there I went over to the Troy City Clerks office and asked for a search for the death cert for 1900-1905. Well, they couldn't/wouldn't do it while I waited and I received a message from them when I got back to CA that if was not found! I called the office and they said if he died, somewhere other than Troy, they wouldn't have the record. BTW, there were no cemetery records in St Joseph's for his burial. Back in Troy the following year, 2000, I went over to the Albany archives and searched the death records. They have a room (actually part of the state health department) where they have all the death, marriage and births on fiche by year and alphabet. The info given is name, event date, place and state cert number. Well, it was a fruitless search. I searched from before 1890 through 1915 and came up empty. Did he die out of state? Did he died in NYC? In the meantime, I started searching my grandfather's brothers and the Timothy O'Connor who I thought might be my gggrandfather. I found Timothy's naturalization papers, born in Co Limerick, with same year of emigration as on the censuses for my James. I obtained his death cert and while it only gave Ireland as his place of birth, it gave his parents names...Bryan O'Connor, Ann Gallagher. I also found a naturalization record for James Connors, emigrated as a minor, no age given or year of emigration. All fit nicely with my scheme. The brothers Michael and John took another three years to completely find their wives' names and their children's names. John was particularly difficult because he moved to NYC, took back the O'Connor name and then moved to Albany NY. I had located them in all federal and state censuses, so could estimate years of death. In 2001, I started searching obituaries when in the Albany/Troy area. I now did most of my researching in the state archives in Albany because I had gleamed most of the available info the Troy Library had to offer. The State archives had newspapers from all over the area. In 2002, I had Michael's death date and death cert and found his obituary...well, he died in 1907 and there in his obituary it said his father was alive!!! My head was buzzing since I had him dead by 1905. So, when I got home, I was back to the censuses. Where was he? Well, like I said, I had written down all O'Connor/Connors in searching the censuses so looking at my notes in 1910, the only James Connors I could find that fit his age, was in St Joseph's Poor House in Troy! Yes, that was him alright, he and Catherine had a parting of ways. He stayed in the poor house till I found him in 1920 and 1925 in the Sister of Mercy's Home for the Aged. He no longer appeared in 1930. So, now I am sitting in CA in the fall of 2002, knowing I wouldn't be in NY for almost another year busting with this new information, so I wrote a friend who went to the archives regularly and asked if when she got the time could she check the death fiches for his death date between 1925 and 1930. Well, she not only found his death in 1928 but found his obituary which gave my grandfather and my aunt's name plus a sister's name! So this was definitely my man. I sent to Troy for his death cert and sure enough, his parents were Timothy O'Connor and Catherine Flanagan and he was born in Tipperary, Ireland! Bingo. To check the info, I researched his sister, found her death date and when in Albany this past summer got her death cert which had the very same info! The object of these two posts, is to show some of the exercises I had to go through to get the info I needed to get back to the county in Ireland. I have since paid for research and found James' sister, Catherine's baptism record with the exact date of birth as is listed on her death certificate. James' wasn't found (what else is new?) but I did find they came from Tipperary Parish, no townland mentioned so probably Tipperary Town, and found some of their siblings. I also paid for research and have come up Catherine's parents but Timothy is still up in the air and requires a whole new set of posts to explain him. However, I am happy to know where they emigrated from and will finally put this family aside and work on some of my other families... -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

I am relating a rather long story, so that others can learn about the ups and downs of genealogy research. It is in essence a story on how I found where my O'Connors came from in Ireland ... I started searching my O'Connor family in 1992 when I first got on the internet. All I had in my babybook was that my great grandfather was James O'Connor and was born in Tipperary, Ireland. Now, I knew my grandfather, James was born in Troy NY, so I had to assume he father emigrated. My first trip back to Troy, since I was a child, was in 1995. I visited the Troy Public Library, the Rensselaer County Courthouse and St. Joseph's Church. In the library, I searched the federal censuses on film and found my grandfather's family in 1880 and 1900 and found he had two brothers I had never heard about, and a sister I had known. I found all their baptisms at St Joseph's. In the courthouse I searched naturalization records in very old books with pages ripped out....it should be noted what when I do research, I write down all occurrences of the O'Connor/Connors name. Also, at St Joseph's, I got all the O'Connor/Connor cemetery records (their is also a St Joseph's Cemetery where the parishioners are buried). When I got home from my trip, back to CA, I started to digest all I had found and put it together in some logical order. From the information, I reconstructed my grandfather's family which included these children by birth order: Timothy, Timothy, Michael, James Timothy, Winifred, John. The only one I had ever met or heard about was Aunt Winnie. However, my grandfather did mention he had a nephew who was a priest who still used the O'Connor name. My grandfather was baptized an O'Connor but died a Connors, his father changed the name when he was young. I found from the cemetery records that the first Timothy died as a baby and the 2nd Timothy died at about 7 yrs of age both before my grandfather was born. From the censuses, I found that ggrandfather, James, had emigrated ca 1863. In the 1870 census, he lived next door to Timothy and Catherine O'Connor and their daughter. With Jame's family there was an older couple, William and Bridget O'Connor. Now, having learned about the Irish naming pattern, I had strong suspicions that Timothy was James' father's name since he named his first two children after him. But to prove it, I would need a death certificate. This is getting long, so I am going to do it in installments... -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

> > >Is there any way to learn Irish. I mean is there a way that is better than >the others. I have bought books and practiced my pronunciation to only find >out I was off by a mile. > Near the bottom of the Irish-American website, I have a link to Amazon for a multi-media system to learn Irish. I haven't used it so can't tell whether it works or not. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

On 4/23/04 4:17 PM, "JD" <jedollard@comcast.net> wrote: > Is there any way to learn Irish. You might try one of the recorded lesson ways of learning the language. I have a tape by Berlitz of native Irish speakers, from which I learned different phrases. In my town, there are also classes done by different organizations, such as a University or a cultural society. Ask around to any people of Irish background you know, or contact a group like the Ancient Order of Hibernians and ask them. Youl should also know that there are different accents in different parts of Ireland. Your relatives in Dublin might laugh at a rube from Donegal or a provincial from Antrim just as well. -- We will not forget! www.remember-9-11.com www.ciarancummings.com

Jerry, Is there any way to learn Irish. I mean is there a way that is better than the others. I have bought books and practiced my pronunciation to only find out I was off by a mile. I have a cousin in Dublin and he gets the whole family around the phone when I call and he ask me to speak the Irish I have learned and then I can hear them all rolling in the floor as I say the words I have learned. Then I am politely corrected and there is just no way to even learn the language phonetically. I have tried the internet and so I have run out of options, short of moving back to Kilkenny and starting over. I live in the least Irish of all the states...Atlanta, Georgia all though I am surprised by the history of the area when in the late 1700's the Irish moved in here in droves. We have so many people that have Mc's before their names that don't have a clue that its Irish. Oh well, what's one to do. jd

A chairde / O friends, My computer went down last week and I've lost all my email correspondence. If you and I were corresponding, and if I still owe you an answer, please let me know. Also, if I already answered your question, it would be a favor to me if you could send me back a copy of our correspondence for my file. Many thanks, Jerry Kelly NA GAEIL MAGAZINE (coming soon to an internet near you)

from LDS film #1481392, Southern District Declaration of Intentions 1855-1917 Colen Stuart Campbell, item 3, page 104 date of court action: 12/29/1908 23 years of age, b Dundee, Scotland on 11/2/1885 resided: Mobile, Alabama ship: Arabia, left Ardrossan, Scotland, arrived: Grief Port Mississippi 12/23/1908 last residence: Dundee, Scotland James Campbell, item 4, page 482 date of court action: 5/24/1915 34 years of age, engineer, b Harrick, Rosebourgh County, Scotland on 10/31/1880 Resided: Bay Minnette, Baldwin County, Alabama Ship: Colombia, arrived New York 3/1/1910 last residence: Walkerburn, Scotland 9/17/1861 George Conner, b Ireland filed US District Court, Mobile Alabama, Confederate States of America 6/2/1917 Patrick Anthony O'Connor, 27, clergyman b Cork, 6/18/1889 resided: Whistler, Mobile County, Alabama Ship: Oceanic, left Queenstown, arrived New York 10/24/1910 his list residence: Cork -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

SNIPPET: Although 1-1/2 million Irish men, women and children were able to escape the potato famine in Ireland in the late 1840s and travel to America, countless others could not afford, or were simply too weak, to leave Ireland. Desperate pleas for assistance poured into the U.S., and concerned family and citizens struggled to raise whatever funds they could to send overseas. When a small group of Choctaw Indians learned of the plight of the starving Irish, they contributed a substantial portion of a $170 donation (worth an estimated $25,000 in present-day dollars) ultimately sent by a relief committee in Memphis, TN. The Choctaws were well aware of the suffering caused by starvation and disease -- in the early 1830s they had been forcibly removed by the U. S. Government from their native land in MS to the Indian Territory, and over a quarter of their people died en route. Writing from the Indian Territory in March 1847, Col. G. W. CLARKE describes to the editor of the "Arkansas Intelligencer" his firsthand account of the Choctaw's compassion: "Dear Sir - The cries of the famishing Ireland have been heard even to this remote corner of the 'great west,' and nobly and generously have they been responded to. On the evening of the 23d inst. a meeting was held at the office of the Superintendent, at which were present most of the neighboring people, and some strangers, who were here on business. On motion, Majr Wm. ARMSTRONG was appointment Chairman, and J. B. LUCE, Secretary. After the reading of a letter from the Irish Relief Committee of Memphis, the chairman adverted to the condition of Ireland, briefly and most feelingly. He spoke of 'Old Erin,' as men of Irish feeling and Irish blood alone can speak; he said 'it is not words she wanted, but substantial food.' A subscription list was then opened, and in a short time $170 were subscribed and paid. By reference to the list you will perceive the names of many full-blooded Choctaw Indians, who knew nothing more, cared for nothing more, than the fact that across ! the Big Water, there were thousands of human beings starving to death. Is not this a sublime spectacle? The Red man of the New, bestowing alms upon the people of the Old world! With them, it is literally complying with the golden rule of Christianity, of returning good for evil. The funds were immediately forwarded to the Committee at Memphis, Tenn. Can your city, famed as it is for its liberality, beat this (?)" Note - Citizens from AR did, in fact, send funds to Ireland, but the total amount is unknown.

Thanks, Pat! Beth

> > >looking for a Levi Rice b. 1796/97 New York married a Prudence Powers b. 1803 in Vermont. They were >married in 1821 New York. Their children were born in Stueben County > Well, Beth, this is a hard one because all live events take place before the law mandated civil registration of birth, deaths and/or marriages in NYS. Other than NYC, not much registration took place before 1880 or so. About the only way you will find what you need is to go county by county, I would start with Stueben County and work my way eastward toward Vermont...you can check each county's available records (state censuses, wills and probates, land grants/mortgages, church records, etc.) on the LDS Family History Library website It will take much work and patience and even after you have searched each county, what you are looking for may just not be available. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

Hi, Can someone help with New York? I have been looking for a Levi Rice b. 1796/97 New York married a Prudence Powers b. 1803 in Vermont. They were married in 1821 New York. Their children were born in Stueben County but that is not where they were from in New York. Is there a list of early marriages on line in New York? Or someplace to write other than sending money and not getting an answer. I have tried Historians but unless I have the right county they can't help. This has been a brick wall for over 8 years. Beth

http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~rbillard/clipping.htm

SNIPPET: In the Jan-Feb 2000 issue of Dublin's "Ireland of the Welcomes" magazine is a several-page article featuring singer Daniel O'DONNELL by Alf McCREARY, writer, author, award-winning journalist who lives in Belfast, with several colorful photos by Brian LYNCH. Per O'DONNELL - "I feel more complete as a person in Donegal than anywhere else the world ... At home, the people are not influenced by what I do. It's no big deal to them, and that's the way it should be." His musical talent, professionalism, and easy-going manner have come together in such a way that he has become outstandingly successful in his chosen profession. Daniel has performed before thousands at London's Wembley Arena, New York's Carnegie Hall, the Sydney Opera House and in many venues along the length and breadth of Ireland, etc. The youngest of five children, Daniel O'DONNELL was born in the early 1960s in the small farming village of Kincassalagh. His parents, both from Donegal, met in the Shetland Islands while working in a fish-gutting factory. Jobs in Donegal were scarce, and his father had to work as a migrant labourer. He died at 49, when Daniel was only six. His mother Julia, a strong woman, raised the family single-handedly. Daniel says, "Although times were hard, I never felt that it was a tough childhood. There was a sense of freedom, amid the beaches and the beauty of the landscape. There was no danger for us as children of Donegal, though we had to be respectful of the sea. We used to cross over to Owey Island for the summer holidays. I had an awareness of the great beauty of the island and of the ocean. Donegal can be very wild and windy, especially in winter-time but it has its own rare beauty, and I loved it in summer. You would wake up, knowing that the promise of a good da! y lay before you. Later on, near the harbour, you could hear the sound of wellington boots on the gravel as the fishermen brought home their catch, and maybe they would give you a wee bit to see how it tasted. At home I remember the crabs roasting over the fire, hanging on a big crook over the burning turf." There was a highly-developed sense of community in Donegal. "There were 'wakes" when a neighbour died, and story-telling by great characters. During my boyhood there was lots of music around. Nearly everyone was able to sing, and there was a great deal of dancing." From an early age he began singing at social events in the village. In his chapel beautiful carols like 'Silent Night,' were sung at Christmas-time, in a wonderful atmosphere with people who had come back 'home' to rediscover their roots. As a young man Daniel worked part-time in a local store, and after passing his Leaving Certificate, he took a summer job washing dishes in a Dublin hotel. His older sister, Margo, who had established herself as a singer, encouraged Daniel to focus on a career in music. Daniel could afford to live anywhere in the world, but he chooses to remain at Kincasslagh. He has a Fan Club in Wembley, Middlesex, England. Tourists from all over will gather at the Viking House Hotel in Kincasslagh for a cup of tea with their favourite singer. O'DONNELL has recorded many beautiful inspiration and Irish songs and has written his autobiography which is simply titled, "Daniel O'Donnell: My Story." And Daniel says of Donegal -- "This is home to me, and what I enjoy most is having space and quietness, the opportunity to play cards and golf with the friends. In the long run it's the people who matter. I have never wanted for anything, and I never wanted much materially. If it all fell apart tomorrow, I could still live happily in Donegal. Here, you know that if you need assistance, the neighbours will help you. There's always an open door.". Note -- One of the photos is of the clean sheltered beach on nearby Arranmore Island which can be reached by a small car ferry from Burtonport.

If you have a website or if you want to find a website having to do with the surname you researching or a county in the USA, Rootsweb has an excellent resource center where you can check links or add your link(s) at: http://resources.rootsweb.com/ They are also adding World Countries and at present have: Australia, Canada and New Zealand One word of warning...don't go there if you are short of time, I have just spent an hour on the site and need to go back because I have just scratched the surface of resources. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton