Jean, I'm happy I can help out. Not too long ago I had only questions on the mailing list. Nora jeanrice@cet.com writes: Hi Nora, Thank you so much for your very useful information. Whenever I post a brief informational-type "snippet," I am hoping that a lister or two will come forward with added comments, new details or corrections. In addition, it is especially nice when I learn that a post has stirred up old memories. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: <Irishcolleen45@aol.com> To: <IRISH-AMERICAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 9:30 AM Subject: [Irish-American] Re: Land Valuation Office, Dublin > Yes, Jean, you can undertake your own research at the office but you are > charged a fee. I think it's about 20 Euro plus additional fees for copying. > The original books' notations are in color with dates so you can figure out > which change is correlated with which date. > Keep in mind it's a government office like the General Register Office (GRO) > so it closes for lunch hour (like the GRO). > Nora > jeanrice@cet.com writes: > SNIPPET: The Land Valuation Office, Dublin, has a wbsite. Just enter > those words into your browser. They can apparently trace all transactions on > particular parcels of land from the Griffith's Valuation to the present using > their current land books, cancelled land books, survey, tenure, field books > and old maps. <snip>

That's how I heard it pronounce when I was there last year. Nora nymets11@pacbell.net writes: > > >How do you pronounce Darragh? > I would say, Darra, but I am no expert. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA

Did you know there is a US Government Land Management site where you can search and see if your ancestors received a patent to homestead? I just found this link on another list. http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/ Click on "Search Land Patents" and then follow the instructions. If you find an ancestor's patent, you can then send for the records. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

I have updated the Ireland books section of my website which includes Ireland Parish History, Local History, Genealogy, History, and all other category of books pertaining to Ireland. Many have lookup volunteers. If you made a submission, please check it for accuracy. Also, if you want to add fiction/novels pertaining to Ireland, submit the book on the Ireland Book website form and use either Fiction or Novel for category. I would like to start a new webpage for this category next month. You can access this section of my website by going to the URL below my name. On my homepage, under Ireland, click on Ireland Books. This will take you to the Ireland Books Discussion Mailing List webpage and you will find the links to the book webpages near the bottom of the page. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

Yes, Jean, you can undertake your own research at the office but you are charged a fee. I think it's about 20 Euro plus additional fees for copying. The original books' notations are in color with dates so you can figure out which change is correlated with which date. Keep in mind it's a government office like the General Register Office (GRO) so it closes for lunch hour (like the GRO). Nora jeanrice@cet.com writes: SNIPPET: The Land Valuation Office, Dublin, has a website. Just enter those words into your browser. They can apparently trace all transactions on particular parcels of land from the Griffith's Valuation to the present using their current land books, cancelled land books, survey, tenure, field books and old maps. You need to have a good idea where your family lived, i.e., a particular townland, and there is some sort of a fee involved. This data can be very useful in determining when a family may have emigrated. Some of the record books are said to contain notations in the margins with potentially important information for a family historian. I believe you can undertake your own research if you visit their office. Jean

SNIPPET: If your Scottish or Irish ancestors migrated to America in the 19th century, there is a good chance that they did not come directly from the British Isles, but from Canada. They may have first crossed the Atlantic as members of a government-sponsored settlement group. Two such groups settled in the Ottawa Valley in the 1820s. Several thousand Scots, known collectively as the Lanark Society Settlers, came there in 1820 and 1821, while Irish immigrants, the Peter Robinson Settlers, arrived in 1823 and 1825. Many of them settled in the same part of Upper Canada. Although there was no previous connection between the two groups, their reasons for migrating were similar - poverty and unemployment headed the list. In the case of the Irish, those ills were compounded by religious discrimination. Although many of the harsh penal laws which restricted the rights of Roman Catholics and some Protestant groups had been rescinded, some were still in effect until 1829.! After the Napoleonic Wars, there was widespread economic distress in the British Isles. This ended in 1815, but when prices fell as cheap grain, meat, and consumer goods were imported from abroad, it negatively affected the livelihood of farm laborers and craftsmen. Thousands of discharged war veterans also swelled the ranks of the unemployed. In Scotland the weavers were hit particularly hard; the demand for army blankets and uniforms had dwindled, and other woolen goods became a glut on the market because people had less purchasing power. Ireland's woes were compounded by a failure of the potato crop caused by a disease known as potato curl, different from the fungus responsible for the terrible famine years of the 1840s) in 1821; this was a disaster in a country where poorer classes subsisted on potatoes and buttermilk. The British government was under pressure to do something to alleviate the situation. Emigration seemed to be the answer, provided sufficient inducement could be offered to make it attractive to people who had seldom traveled more than a few miles from home The emigration solution proposed by the British government was not entirely altruistic. The 1812 War between the U. S. and the Canadas had been concluded by treaty in 1814, but there was a lingering fear that hostilities could break out again. For some years afterward the British Army had manned forts and garrisons in Upper and Lower Canada, but they were too costly to maintain. The plan was to replace them with settlements filled with men loyal to the Crown, who could form militia units to be called into service in case of need. In Scotland, hundreds of families, many of them unemployed weavers, formed themselves into more than 40 emigration societies preparing to move to Upper Canada. Some were from Glasgow, others from the surrounding countryside. Few of the weavers had worked in factories; most had worked in their own homes, using rented looms. In Canada, these families were known as "the Lanark Society Settlers," although there was no emigration society of that name. That was a blanket terms for members of emigration societies who settled at New Lanark. The actual groups had many different names, such as Springbank, Muslin Street, Glasgow Union Wrights, and the Lesmahagow Society. Each adult male was allocated 100 acres of land which he could own outright for a registration fee of ten pounds and after performing set duties, including clearing a certain acreage of land and building a dwelling house. Tools, seeds, and basic household goods were supplied, and each family received a financial! loan in several installments. This money had to be spent in specified ways and was meant to be repaid later. Many of these loans were eventually forgiven because it was years before profits were able to be made from the land. Cost of the transatlantic passage was three pounds for an adult, less for a child, but only a few of the emigrants could afford to pay their own way. Others were asisted by funds raised by public subscriotion. The first group of families left in 1820, traveling on the ships, "Commerce," "Prompt" and "Brock." Others followed in 1821, on the the "Commerce, " "David of London," Earl of Buckinghamshire," and "George Canning." After a gruelling march from Quebec City, traveling by boat, wagon, and on foot, they were given land in the adjoining townships of Dalhousie, Lanark, North Sherbrooke, and Ramsay, in what is now Lanark County, a short distance from Ottowa. Meanwhile, a response was sent from Britain's Dept. of Colonial Affarirs to Sir John Beverly ROBINSON, Attny. Gen. for Upper Canada, asking him to find a knowledgeable person to travel to Ireland to recruit families there. Sir John chose his brother, Peter ROBINSON, a member of the Legislative Assembly of Upper Canada representing York (now Toronto). Robinson went to the south of Ireland, where he set up recruiting stations with the assistance of the local magistrates and clergy. While the scheme was meant for the relief of the poor, a handful of tradespeople, such as blacksmiths, carpenters, shoemakers, and coopers, were included as being necessary to the backwoods settlements. Only people of "good character" were offered the chance to participate, but it was later discovered that a few men of dubious reputation were given glowing reference by magistrates who saw this as a great way to rid their districts of notorious troublemakers. Once ROBINSON had allayed the fear! s of the people, the response was enormous. For those who were struggling, the prospect of 100 acres of free land for every male over 19 was overwhelming. Free passage, free rations for a year, tools, and basic household goods provided a further inducement. In the spring of 1823, the first group of settlers left Cork Harbor for a two-month voyage on board the ships "Hebe" and "Stakesby." Some of his people found land in Lanark and Ramsay, while others located in the nearby townships of Beckwith, Pakenham, Huntley, and Goulbourn. The last two were later incorporated into Carleton Co. Two years later ROBINSON returned to Ireland and brought out a much larger group, traveling on the ships "Albion," "Amity," Brunswick, " "Elizabeth, " "Fortitude," "John Barry," "Regulus," "Resolution," and "Star.O" Most were taken to a group of townshiops in another part of Ontario, surrounding the town of Peterborough, which they named in ROBINSON's honor. Many of the families who came! as Lanark Society and Peter Robinson settlers were joined by relatives as time went on, although these later arrivals had to pay their own way. Additional Scots came in the 1820s and 1830's, while the great Famine of the 1840's brought numerous people from Ireland. . Ninety percent of the Peter Robinson settlers were Roman Catholic, while the Scots were primarily Presbyterian. During the 19th century, a large number of these new Canadians migrated to the U.S. -- Excerpts, Carol McCuaig's article, "Ancestry" magazine Sept/Oct 1996 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 5/22/2004

Hi Nora, Thank you so much for your very useful information. Whenever I post a brief informational-type "snippet," I am hoping that a lister or two will come forward with added comments, new details or corrections. In addition, it is especially nice when I learn that a post has stirred up old memories. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: <Irishcolleen45@aol.com> To: <IRISH-AMERICAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 9:30 AM Subject: [Irish-American] Re: Land Valuation Office, Dublin > Yes, Jean, you can undertake your own research at the office but you are > charged a fee. I think it's about 20 Euro plus additional fees for copying. > The original books' notations are in color with dates so you can figure out > which change is correlated with which date. > Keep in mind it's a government office like the General Register Office (GRO) > so it closes for lunch hour (like the GRO). > Nora > jeanrice@cet.com writes: > SNIPPET: The Land Valuation Office, Dublin, has a website. Just enter > those words into your browser. They can apparently trace all transactions on > particular parcels of land from the Griffith's Valuation to the present using > their current land books, cancelled land books, survey, tenure, field books > and old maps. <snip> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 5/22/2004

Begin forwarded message: > Greetings, > This from a local historical newsletter: > Irish Superstitions at Fort Tejon (California, est. 1853), by William > Gorenfeld. > > "Irish troopers, who formed the backbone of Co. A, 1st Dragoons at > Fort Tejon in 1856, were generally recent arrivals from Erin's green > shores. In the old country, these men, mostly of peasant stock, had > been steeped in the lore of the realm of the supernatural. > There was the "Evil Eye", a silent, fixed stare that was believed to > be fatal if cast upon one sitting before a fire while the moon was > full. A person who wished to avoid being falsely accused of casting an > "Evil Eye" would say "God Bless You" when looking at another. > A grudger had the ability to fix an evil curse upon one's horse. The > only known cure...was to burn the grudger's coat under the nose of the > afflicted animal. > The banshee's lonely croon warned of an imminent death in one's > family. A horse with one foreleg and one hind leg stockinged was > considered to bring bad luck to the rider. Riding a dead man's horse > was considered by the Irish to be a bad idea and, indeed proved to be > for Trooper John GARVEN, late of County Tipperary, Ireland. > During the autumn of 1855, Capt. E.A. Townsend visited Fort Tejon in > the company of Bishop Kip. In his journal, Capt. Townsend made the > following entry for Oct. 1855: > 'Before breakfast this morning, the Bishop buried an Irish soldier of > Gardiner's company. He was the victim of superstition. He happened to > be the first man to ride Lieut. Castor's horse after his death, and > being soon taken sick with fever, his wife persuaded him that he > could never recover because he was the first to ride a dead man's > horse. The surgeon says there was no reason why the man should have > died if his mind had not been so depressed.' > In Irish folklore, the last corpse planted in a grave yard was > required to stand guard over the site until the next corpse was > buried. On the chilly evening of Oct. 15, 1855, in the post cemetery > at Fort Tejon, Trooper GARVEN duly reported to relieve Lieut. Castor > from guard duty." > Dan Hogan >

A good place to look for translations is. www.irishgaelictranslator.com

go to www.mythome.org

> > >How do you pronounce Darragh? > I would say, Darra, but I am no expert. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

How do you pronounce Darragh? I've been looking for a homeland or something similar in Ireland. The family member that gave us the clue said it was something like Denny Daw or Dewy Daw and I've not been able to find anything close to it. Understand that the Irish pronounce things differently than I might expect. Thanks, Cynthia -----Original Message----- From: judy christopher [mailto:ajuntas@rcn.com] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 1:22 PM To: IRISH-AMERICAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Irish-American] Re: Otherdays.com and Origins.com Pat, I agree with Nora. My Foxes have been in Darragh for eons. I have their rent and tax records but they do not appear on Griffiths Eval., but on the rent records in 1829. By the By they are still on that land. Judy Christopher ----- Original Message ----- From: <Irishcolleen45@aol.com> To: <IRISH-AMERICAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: [Irish-American] Re: Otherdays.com and Origins.com > Pat, > I would like to make a comment on the Griffith Valuation Index. That index > was compiled by the National Library of Ireland in the 1950s. It was not > compiled by Griffith and his team when the Griffith's Valuation was done. There > are errors. > I found that out when we noticed my husband's great great grandfather was > missing from the index but was actually in the original books (we viewed in > Dublin). I e-mailed the National Archives of Ireland asking about the > discrepancy and I was informed why that happened. > Nora Hopkins FitzGerald > nymets11@pacbell.net writes: > > > The other day I posted a critical opinion of the Otherdays.com on line > subscription program because there was no way to print or save the > Griffith Valuation images. Well, I heard from Francis Dowling today. > He owns Otherdays and he informed me that they have restored the the > print function and added the ability to save the image, which is a great > improvement in my estimation. I checked out the program and you can > indeed do both. Printing the image, using Netscape browser, I got a > small image printed. However, using a photo program, I was able to > bring up the image that I save and then print it so it filled a full > page which the print was larger and easier to read. > > So the object of this is, if you are using either program to access the > Griffith Valuation, both now have the same ability to print and save. > In my last email, I mentioned that the GV Index was missing a lot of > names and should not be relied on to do you family research. I was > referring to the Broderbund CD tht you can buy on line, not the indexes > being used on Otherdays or Origins. > > -- > Pat Connors, Sacramento CA > > > > ==== IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List ==== > The IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List Website and Lookup Service > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > Use this to unsub, change your subscription, links, etc. > > ==== IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List ==== The IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List Website and Lookup Service http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ Use this to unsub, change your subscription, links, etc. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 4/21/2004

Sorry, I meant these post for the St Louis lists, and I sent it to the Irish-American by mistake, but if anyone is interested since they do contain Irish surnames, they are from the St. Louis, MO Post Dispatch newspaper. Dan Hogan On Thursday, July 1, 2004, at 06:10 PM, ConnorsGenealogy wrote: >> I have decided to enter the spouse's name/age, if available, with the >> more common Irish names. > > > Dan, where are these obits from? > > -- > Pat Connors, Sacramento CA

Pat, I agree with Nora. My Foxes have been in Darragh for eons. I have their rent and tax records but they do not appear on Griffiths Eval., but on the rent records in 1829. By the By they are still on that land. Judy Christopher ----- Original Message ----- From: <Irishcolleen45@aol.com> To: <IRISH-AMERICAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: [Irish-American] Re: Otherdays.com and Origins.com > Pat, > I would like to make a comment on the Griffith Valuation Index. That index > was compiled by the National Library of Ireland in the 1950s. It was not > compiled by Griffith and his team when the Griffith's Valuation was done. There > are errors. > I found that out when we noticed my husband's great great grandfather was > missing from the index but was actually in the original books (we viewed in > Dublin). I e-mailed the National Archives of Ireland asking about the > discrepancy and I was informed why that happened. > Nora Hopkins FitzGerald > nymets11@pacbell.net writes: > > > The other day I posted a critical opinion of the Otherdays.com on line > subscription program because there was no way to print or save the > Griffith Valuation images. Well, I heard from Francis Dowling today. > He owns Otherdays and he informed me that they have restored the the > print function and added the ability to save the image, which is a great > improvement in my estimation. I checked out the program and you can > indeed do both. Printing the image, using Netscape browser, I got a > small image printed. However, using a photo program, I was able to > bring up the image that I save and then print it so it filled a full > page which the print was larger and easier to read. > > So the object of this is, if you are using either program to access the > Griffith Valuation, both now have the same ability to print and save. > In my last email, I mentioned that the GV Index was missing a lot of > names and should not be relied on to do you family research. I was > referring to the Broderbund CD tht you can buy on line, not the indexes > being used on Otherdays or Origins. > > -- > Pat Connors, Sacramento CA > > > > ==== IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List ==== > The IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List Website and Lookup Service > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > Use this to unsub, change your subscription, links, etc. > >

I have just updated the surname registries for Counties Clare, Limerick, Tipperary, Mayo and Galway on my website. Please check your submissions for accuracy. You can access the registries by going to the URL below my name. On my homepage, at the top, under Ireland for you find links for each of the counties. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

I have just updated the O'Connor (etc) surname registries on my website. Please check you submission for accuracy. You can access them by going to the URL below my name. On my homepage, at the top, under Surnames, click on O'Connor/Connors. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com All outgoing mail virus free, scanned by Norton

SNIPPET: The Land Valuation Office, Dublin, has a website. Just enter those words into your browser. They can apparently trace all transactions on particular parcels of land from the Griffith's Valuation to the present using their current land books, cancelled land books, survey, tenure, field books and old maps. You need to have a good idea where your family lived, i.e., a particular townland, and there is some sort of a fee involved. This data can be very useful in determining when a family may have emigrated. Some of the record books are said to contain notations in the margins with potentially important information for a family historian. I believe you can undertake your own research if you visit their office. Jean --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 5/22/2004

I have decided to enter the spouse's name/age, if available, with the more common Irish names. January 22, 1944: 1. JOST, Lisetta 2. KAHLE-WUNSCH, Elizabeth 3. KINSELLA, Patrick J. 4. LANGENECKERT, Sophia T. 5. LETSON, George M. 6. LOWE, John (partial) 1886: 1. STICKNEY, Nida B. 1892: 1. FINNEGAN, Thomas, 2. GLEASON, John J. 3. HATHAWAY, Thomas B. 4. JELLEY, James H. 5. MURPHY, John J., age 46 6. REAGON, Ellen 7. Vasquez, A.B. December 23, 1896: 1. JOHNSON, Serena Fortuna 2. KANE, Daniel P., age 64 3. LAUDRY, Alexander V. 4. MARTIN, Edward 5. ULLRICH, Harry C. 6. USHER, Mary June 13, 1908: 1. O'CONNOR, John, husband of Mary Kane 2. O'FLAHERTY, Bridget, wife of Patrick. 3. PRUNKARD, Phebe F. 4. WALL, John R. 5. WALSH, Cecilia (partial) Email me for the specifics. Dan Hogan

By the "rent records" do you mean the Tithe ? Evelyn judy christopher wrote: >Pat, I agree with Nora. My Foxes have been in Darragh for eons. I have >their rent and tax records but they do not appear on Griffiths Eval., but on >the rent records in 1829. By the By they are still on that land. Judy >Christopher >----- Original Message ----- >From: <Irishcolleen45@aol.com> >To: <IRISH-AMERICAN-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 9:59 AM >Subject: [Irish-American] Re: Otherdays.com and Origins.com > > > > >>Pat, >>I would like to make a comment on the Griffith Valuation Index. That >> >> >index > > >>was compiled by the National Library of Ireland in the 1950s. It was not >>compiled by Griffith and his team when the Griffith's Valuation was done. >> >> >There > > >>are errors. >>I found that out when we noticed my husband's great great grandfather was >>missing from the index but was actually in the original books (we viewed >> >> >in > > >>Dublin). I e-mailed the National Archives of Ireland asking about the >>discrepancy and I was informed why that happened. >>Nora Hopkins FitzGerald >>nymets11@pacbell.net writes: >> >> >>The other day I posted a critical opinion of the Otherdays.com on line >>subscription program because there was no way to print or save the >>Griffith Valuation images. Well, I heard from Francis Dowling today. >>He owns Otherdays and he informed me that they have restored the the >>print function and added the ability to save the image, which is a great >>improvement in my estimation. I checked out the program and you can >>indeed do both. Printing the image, using Netscape browser, I got a >>small image printed. However, using a photo program, I was able to >>bring up the image that I save and then print it so it filled a full >>page which the print was larger and easier to read. >> >>So the object of this is, if you are using either program to access the >>Griffith Valuation, both now have the same ability to print and save. >>In my last email, I mentioned that the GV Index was missing a lot of >>names and should not be relied on to do you family research. I was >>referring to the Broderbund CD tht you can buy on line, not the indexes >>being used on Otherdays or Origins. >> >>-- >>Pat Connors, Sacramento CA >> >> >> >>==== IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List ==== >>The IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List Website and Lookup Service >>http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ >>Use this to unsub, change your subscription, links, etc. >> >> >> >> > > > >==== IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List ==== >The IRISH-AMERICAN Mailing List Website and Lookup Service >http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ >Use this to unsub, change your subscription, links, etc. > > > >

Pat, I would like to make a comment on the Griffith Valuation Index. That index was compiled by the National Library of Ireland in the 1950s. It was not compiled by Griffith and his team when the Griffith's Valuation was done. There are errors. I found that out when we noticed my husband's great great grandfather was missing from the index but was actually in the original books (we viewed in Dublin). I e-mailed the National Archives of Ireland asking about the discrepancy and I was informed why that happened. Nora Hopkins FitzGerald nymets11@pacbell.net writes: The other day I posted a critical opinion of the Otherdays.com on line subscription program because there was no way to print or save the Griffith Valuation images. Well, I heard from Francis Dowling today. He owns Otherdays and he informed me that they have restored the the print function and added the ability to save the image, which is a great improvement in my estimation. I checked out the program and you can indeed do both. Printing the image, using Netscape browser, I got a small image printed. However, using a photo program, I was able to bring up the image that I save and then print it so it filled a full page which the print was larger and easier to read. So the object of this is, if you are using either program to access the Griffith Valuation, both now have the same ability to print and save. In my last email, I mentioned that the GV Index was missing a lot of names and should not be relied on to do you family research. I was referring to the Broderbund CD tht you can buy on line, not the indexes being used on Otherdays or Origins. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA