Total number of births for the name Hally in Ireland registered in 1890 was 13 all in Tipperary. Hally households in all Ireland Griffiths Valuations were. Cork City, 1 Donegal, 2 Galway, 3 Kilkenny, 2 Louth, 1 Tipperary, 78 Waterford, 81. Hope this helps. Raymond. http://www.raymondscountydownwebsite.com

Thanks, Sandra. Best, - Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of sjhawley Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] O'hAilche / O'Hally Jerry and Michael, It has been extremely interesting following your discussion. It is my belief that in Ireland, the family in question was known as Hally and it was not until they emigrated to the US that the name began to be spelled Hawley. I have also found the name in the US spelled as Howley and Holley. One of the sons of Michael Hally and Catherine English used the name Holly. Another point of interest that may help confirm the surname as Hally is that the birth certificate for my grandfather listed him as Willie Hally in 1893 in Wisconsin. Michael Hally and Catherine English were his great great grandparents. Around 1960, however, there was a note added to his birth record that indicated a change from Hally to Hawley and from Willie to William. However, I think there is no doubt that the family was known as Hally in Ireland and not Hawley. Whether Michael Hally or his ancestors moved to Aughvanlomaun township, Newcastle Parish in Co Tipperary from another county may not be something that can be proven. The Dan Hawley mentioned in these e-mails is not from the town of Newcastle, but from San Diego, California but has relatives in Ardfinnan Co Tipperary which is next to the town of Newcastle. We have not proven any family relationship and if there is one, it probably goes back a ways. Dan Hawley is the one who directed me to the bed & breakfast where we stayed when we visited Ireland as he had been there with his daughter and recommended it to us. You can feel free to contact me off-list if you like. Sandra J Hawley San Juan Island Friday Harbor, WA USA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] O'hAilche / O'Hally Dear Michael, Very interesting. Many thanks. Best,- Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael O'Hearn Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:06 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] O'hAilche / O'Hally Jean and Jerry, Here is some additional information which may or may not be of interest. I first found out about the Hally family connection from reading a paper of an address given by my paternal grandmother's cousin Rev. Lambert Scanlan, descended from the same line of Hawleys and very active in the local AOH, at a Hawley reunion some number of years ago. In the paper, he says something to the effect that Pat Powers was a Catholic lad from County Waterford who was interested in Ellen Hawley of Tipperary, daughter of Michael Hawley who was a Protestant soldier from County Cork and Kate English of a Tipperary family, but that Pat and Ellen could not be married in Ireland due to religious differences so that is what prompted them to come to America. I no longer have the paper and this is from memory. Later I received information regarding the posthumous notes of Rev. Scanlan on various families which indicated for Michael and Kate Hawley the location as Cork and Tipperary. Several years later I found out from Sandra Hawley before she made the trip to Ireland that from her research she had deduced that both Michael and Kate were from Tipperary, and someone in the Newcastle area, perhaps it was Dan Hawley, had the baptismal records information for two or three of their children from that area, and that they were in fact Hallys in Ireland. This caused me to question the belief which I previously held that, as you suggested Jean, Michael Hawley was of English descent. However, I was still skeptical because Rev. Scanlan had mentioned County Cork and I was of the belief that they were of the same descent as the Haly family there just a ways east of south Tipperary near Mitchelstown I believe. But I did receive the baptismal information from Dan Hawley confirming that the children were baptized Catholic and that the family did indeed live in Aughavanlomaun in the vicinity of Newcastle. This is where Dan provided the information regarding the alleged views of Geoffrey Keating, and advised me that the family was indeed O'hAilche as was his own family, and not from County Cork where the branch of the O'hAinle (Haly, O'Hanly) had settled from County Limerick. As I continued to receive more information, I corresponded with someone who was from a Hawley family of Borrisokane in the north of County Tipperary, and I learned that the Hawley families in that area were in fact Anglo-Irish Hawleys of English descent, and I believe most to have been Protestant. Several years later, Sandra Hawley and others of her family made the trip to Ireland and she was able to obtain confirmation that the family was indeed Hally, and that they were Catholic, by copying the baptismal certificate information for all but two or three of the thirteen children, including names of the baptismal sponsors, and also discovered that the family was from the town of Aughavanlomaun, while Kate's family was from Grange, a section of Newcastle. This information is posted somewhere, as well as photographs of the area and two churches, one in Newcastle and one in a neighboring town. When Michael and Kate emigrated to America, several of the family were already married and came separately, as did my ancestors Michael Patrick Powers and his wife Ellen and family. One son remained with the Powers grandparents in Mount Mellary, County Waterford, but upon coming of age, he also immigrated and, after getting married in Wisconsin, his family was one of the first to settle in Escanaba, Michigan where he worked for one of the railroad companies I believe. About that time, another of the Hawleys was a boat captain on lake Michigan and assisted in the rescue on the lake of many settlers stranded there during the Peshtigo fire in northern Wisconsin and Michigan which occurred at the exact same time as the Chicago fire, the atmospheric conditions being such that many fires apparently occurred spontaneously in different places at that time. One of his son joined the Green Bay Police Department and rose to the rank of Police Chief serving quite a number of years before retiring. Continuing my research, I discovered some records of a cemetery somewhere on the road towrd Kilmallock in County Limerick, but still in County Tipperary, which included inscriptions for Hallys or Halleys, leading me to again speculate as to whether they may not have been from the Clare and Limerick areas, and of the O'hAinle family group. At this point, I now believe that the prevailing view is that the O'hAilches were descended from Vikings, probably Danish, and that the Hallys in Newcastle and surroundig areas including Aughavanlomaun were among these O'hAilches, and this is also what I believe strongly to be true. The very best, Michael ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sue, I would appreciate learning whatever it is you have about the WELCH family in Boston in case I can make a connection. I have tons on information going forward from when they arrived in Boston that I'd be happy to share but sorry to say, I've no info about them in Cork or Ireland in general. Thanks. Joanne Massachusetts

Jerry and Michael, It has been extremely interesting following your discussion. It is my belief that in Ireland, the family in question was known as Hally and it was not until they emigrated to the US that the name began to be spelled Hawley. I have also found the name in the US spelled as Howley and Holley. One of the sons of Michael Hally and Catherine English used the name Holly. Another point of interest that may help confirm the surname as Hally is that the birth certificate for my grandfather listed him as Willie Hally in 1893 in Wisconsin. Michael Hally and Catherine English were his great great grandparents. Around 1960, however, there was a note added to his birth record that indicated a change from Hally to Hawley and from Willie to William. However, I think there is no doubt that the family was known as Hally in Ireland and not Hawley. Whether Michael Hally or his ancestors moved to Aughvanlomaun township, Newcastle Parish in Co Tipperary from another county may not be something that can be proven. The Dan Hawley mentioned in these e-mails is not from the town of Newcastle, but from San Diego, California but has relatives in Ardfinnan Co Tipperary which is next to the town of Newcastle. We have not proven any family relationship and if there is one, it probably goes back a ways. Dan Hawley is the one who directed me to the bed & breakfast where we stayed when we visited Ireland as he had been there with his daughter and recommended it to us. You can feel free to contact me off-list if you like. Sandra J Hawley San Juan Island Friday Harbor, WA USA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] O'hAilche / O'Hally Dear Michael, Very interesting. Many thanks. Best,- Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael O'Hearn Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:06 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] O'hAilche / O'Hally Jean and Jerry, Here is some additional information which may or may not be of interest. I first found out about the Hally family connection from reading a paper of an address given by my paternal grandmother's cousin Rev. Lambert Scanlan, descended from the same line of Hawleys and very active in the local AOH, at a Hawley reunion some number of years ago. In the paper, he says something to the effect that Pat Powers was a Catholic lad from County Waterford who was interested in Ellen Hawley of Tipperary, daughter of Michael Hawley who was a Protestant soldier from County Cork and Kate English of a Tipperary family, but that Pat and Ellen could not be married in Ireland due to religious differences so that is what prompted them to come to America. I no longer have the paper and this is from memory. Later I received information regarding the posthumous notes of Rev. Scanlan on various families which indicated for Michael and Kate Hawley the location as Cork and Tipperary. Several years later I found out from Sandra Hawley before she made the trip to Ireland that from her research she had deduced that both Michael and Kate were from Tipperary, and someone in the Newcastle area, perhaps it was Dan Hawley, had the baptismal records information for two or three of their children from that area, and that they were in fact Hallys in Ireland. This caused me to question the belief which I previously held that, as you suggested Jean, Michael Hawley was of English descent. However, I was still skeptical because Rev. Scanlan had mentioned County Cork and I was of the belief that they were of the same descent as the Haly family there just a ways east of south Tipperary near Mitchelstown I believe. But I did receive the baptismal information from Dan Hawley confirming that the children were baptized Catholic and that the family did indeed live in Aughavanlomaun in the vicinity of Newcastle. This is where Dan provided the information regarding the alleged views of Geoffrey Keating, and advised me that the family was indeed O'hAilche as was his own family, and not from County Cork where the branch of the O'hAinle (Haly, O'Hanly) had settled from County Limerick. As I continued to receive more information, I corresponded with someone who was from a Hawley family of Borrisokane in the north of County Tipperary, and I learned that the Hawley families in that area were in fact Anglo-Irish Hawleys of English descent, and I believe most to have been Protestant. Several years later, Sandra Hawley and others of her family made the trip to Ireland and she was able to obtain confirmation that the family was indeed Hally, and that they were Catholic, by copying the baptismal certificate information for all but two or three of the thirteen children, including names of the baptismal sponsors, and also discovered that the family was from the town of Aughavanlomaun, while Kate's family was from Grange, a section of Newcastle. This information is posted somewhere, as well as photographs of the area and two churches, one in Newcastle and one in a neighboring town. When Michael and Kate emigrated to America, several of the family were already married and came separately, as did my ancestors Michael Patrick Powers and his wife Ellen and family. One son remained with the Powers grandparents in Mount Mellary, County Waterford, but upon coming of age, he also immigrated and, after getting married in Wisconsin, his family was one of the first to settle in Escanaba, Michigan where he worked for one of the railroad companies I believe. About that time, another of the Hawleys was a boat captain on lake Michigan and assisted in the rescue on the lake of many settlers stranded there during the Peshtigo fire in northern Wisconsin and Michigan which occurred at the exact same time as the Chicago fire, the atmospheric conditions being such that many fires apparently occurred spontaneously in different places at that time. One of his son joined the Green Bay Police Department and rose to the rank of Police Chief serving quite a number of years before retiring. Continuing my research, I discovered some records of a cemetery somewhere on the road towrd Kilmallock in County Limerick, but still in County Tipperary, which included inscriptions for Hallys or Halleys, leading me to again speculate as to whether they may not have been from the Clare and Limerick areas, and of the O'hAinle family group. At this point, I now believe that the prevailing view is that the O'hAilches were descended from Vikings, probably Danish, and that the Hallys in Newcastle and surroundig areas including Aughavanlomaun were among these O'hAilches, and this is also what I believe strongly to be true. The very best, Michael

Hi Joan, Thanks so much for writing. According to my father yes there were or are relatives in Boston but I don't have any contacts. I could send you the names I do have and what information I've found using the census. Sincerely, Sue Welsh --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

Dear Michael, Very interesting. Many thanks. Best,- Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael O'Hearn Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:06 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] O'hAilche / O'Hally Jean and Jerry, Here is some additional information which may or may not be of interest. I first found out about the Hally family connection from reading a paper of an address given by my paternal grandmother's cousin Rev. Lambert Scanlan, descended from the same line of Hawleys and very active in the local AOH, at a Hawley reunion some number of years ago. In the paper, he says something to the effect that Pat Powers was a Catholic lad from County Waterford who was interested in Ellen Hawley of Tipperary, daughter of Michael Hawley who was a Protestant soldier from County Cork and Kate English of a Tipperary family, but that Pat and Ellen could not be married in Ireland due to religious differences so that is what prompted them to come to America. I no longer have the paper and this is from memory. Later I received information regarding the posthumous notes of Rev. Scanlan on various families which indicated for Michael and Kate Hawley the location as Cork and Tipperary. Several years later I found out from Sandra Hawley before she made the trip to Ireland that from her research she had deduced that both Michael and Kate were from Tipperary, and someone in the Newcastle area, perhaps it was Dan Hawley, had the baptismal records information for two or three of their children from that area, and that they were in fact Hallys in Ireland. This caused me to question the belief which I previously held that, as you suggested Jean, Michael Hawley was of English descent. However, I was still skeptical because Rev. Scanlan had mentioned County Cork and I was of the belief that they were of the same descent as the Haly family there just a ways east of south Tipperary near Mitchelstown I believe. But I did receive the baptismal information from Dan Hawley confirming that the children were baptized Catholic and that the family did indeed live in Aughavanlomaun in the vicinity of Newcastle. This is where Dan provided the information regarding the alleged views of Geoffrey Keating, and advised me that the family was indeed O'hAilche as was his own family, and not from County Cork where the branch of the O'hAinle (Haly, O'Hanly) had settled from County Limerick. As I continued to receive more information, I corresponded with someone who was from a Hawley family of Borrisokane in the north of County Tipperary, and I learned that the Hawley families in that area were in fact Anglo-Irish Hawleys of English descent, and I believe most to have been Protestant. Several years later, Sandra Hawley and others of her family made the trip to Ireland and she was able to obtain confirmation that the family was indeed Hally, and that they were Catholic, by copying the baptismal certificate information for all but two or three of the thirteen children, including names of the baptismal sponsors, and also discovered that the family was from the town of Aughavanlomaun, while Kate's family was from Grange, a section of Newcastle. This information is posted somewhere, as well as photographs of the area and two churches, one in Newcastle and one in a neighboring town. When Michael and Kate emigrated to America, several of the family were already married and came separately, as did my ancestors Michael Patrick Powers and his wife Ellen and family. One son remained with the Powers grandparents in Mount Mellary, County Waterford, but upon coming of age, he also immigrated and, after getting married in Wisconsin, his family was one of the first to settle in Escanaba, Michigan where he worked for one of the railroad companies I believe. About that time, another of the Hawleys was a boat captain on lake Michigan and assisted in the rescue on the lake of many settlers stranded there during the Peshtigo fire in northern Wisconsin and Michigan which occurred at the exact same time as the Chicago fire, the atmospheric conditions being such that many fires apparently occurred spontaneously in different places at that time. One of his son joined the Green Bay Police Department and rose to the rank of Police Chief serving quite a number of years before retiring. Continuing my research, I discovered some records of a cemetery somewhere on the road towrd Kilmallock in County Limerick, but still in County Tipperary, which included inscriptions for Hallys or Halleys, leading me to again speculate as to whether they may not have been from the Clare and Limerick areas, and of the O'hAinle family group. At this point, I now believe that the prevailing view is that the O'hAilches were descended from Vikings, probably Danish, and that the Hallys in Newcastle and surroundig areas including Aughavanlomaun were among these O'hAilches, and this is also what I believe strongly to be true. The very best, Michael ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mary Thank you for that explanation. I had a g.aunt who married a James WHELCH/WALSH and we never new this explanation. James & Nancy went to OR in 1845 on the Oregon Trail. Thanks. Howard Fitzpatrick

> > especially when you add disease, violence and serfdom to the mix. Well, in the 1920s, she didn't have to worry about disease or serfdom, and the civil war was winding down. However, when you are young, the grass always looks greener but she found out soon that there is nothing greener than the grass in Ireland. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

As an addendum, The dissertation given by Father Scanlan was at a Scanlan reunion rather than a Hawley reunion, and included some things about his forebears Denis Scanlan and Patrick Scanlan of County Cork. Most of it was obviously blarney, at least as it pertains to the Hallys. I understand from another Hawley descendant that Father Scanlan also attended Hawley reunions which tended to be quite raucous due to the large number of descendants in the Midwest and other locations. Michael O'Hearn ____________________________________________________________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

Rich Shea: I have a Richard Welch/Walsh in the 1845 census of Nunda, Livingston Co., NY newly married to Bridget Mary Dwyer, both b Ireland. The explanation I heard for the Welch/Walsh confusion is that they were born Walsh, but pronounced it Welch, so the census enumerators all too often wrote it down that way. I have plenty of information on them, but no proof of their parents. Would be glad of help. Mary Fallon Richards

I too have ancestors who came over in the 1850s and started out as Richard Welch and his most common dob was Aug 1837 and arrived in 1853. >From where or when and on what vessel I have no idea. He ended uperving in the 1st Deleware Infantry and married Mary Bridget Fitzgerald of County Wexford and is fist found in the 1870 census of Troy, NY. He was the son of John and Mary Burke Walsh. In the 1900 census of Troy he suddenly is Richard Walsh. We believe we have found his siblings from a probate petition in Albany County NY as being Bridget Reynolds, Sarah Kenary(Canary in census records), William and James. But is the best I have done so far. Rich Shea

Jean and Jerry, Here is some additional information which may or may not be of interest. I first found out about the Hally family connection from reading a paper of an address given by my paternal grandmother's cousin Rev. Lambert Scanlan, descended from the same line of Hawleys and very active in the local AOH, at a Hawley reunion some number of years ago. In the paper, he says something to the effect that Pat Powers was a Catholic lad from County Waterford who was interested in Ellen Hawley of Tipperary, daughter of Michael Hawley who was a Protestant soldier from County Cork and Kate English of a Tipperary family, but that Pat and Ellen could not be married in Ireland due to religious differences so that is what prompted them to come to America. I no longer have the paper and this is from memory. Later I received information regarding the posthumous notes of Rev. Scanlan on various families which indicated for Michael and Kate Hawley the location as Cork and Tipperary. Several years later I found out from Sandra Hawley before she made the trip to Ireland that from her research she had deduced that both Michael and Kate were from Tipperary, and someone in the Newcastle area, perhaps it was Dan Hawley, had the baptismal records information for two or three of their children from that area, and that they were in fact Hallys in Ireland. This caused me to question the belief which I previously held that, as you suggested Jean, Michael Hawley was of English descent. However, I was still skeptical because Rev. Scanlan had mentioned County Cork and I was of the belief that they were of the same descent as the Haly family there just a ways east of south Tipperary near Mitchelstown I believe. But I did receive the baptismal information from Dan Hawley confirming that the children were baptized Catholic and that the family did indeed live in Aughavanlomaun in the vicinity of Newcastle. This is where Dan provided the information regarding the alleged views of Geoffrey Keating, and advised me that the family was indeed O'hAilche as was his own family, and not from County Cork where the branch of the O'hAinle (Haly, O'Hanly) had settled from County Limerick. As I continued to receive more information, I corresponded with someone who was from a Hawley family of Borrisokane in the north of County Tipperary, and I learned that the Hawley families in that area were in fact Anglo-Irish Hawleys of English descent, and I believe most to have been Protestant. Several years later, Sandra Hawley and others of her family made the trip to Ireland and she was able to obtain confirmation that the family was indeed Hally, and that they were Catholic, by copying the baptismal certificate information for all but two or three of the thirteen children, including names of the baptismal sponsors, and also discovered that the family was from the town of Aughavanlomaun, while Kate's family was from Grange, a section of Newcastle. This information is posted somewhere, as well as photographs of the area and two churches, one in Newcastle and one in a neighboring town. When Michael and Kate emigrated to America, several of the family were already married and came separately, as did my ancestors Michael Patrick Powers and his wife Ellen and family. One son remained with the Powers grandparents in Mount Mellary, County Waterford, but upon coming of age, he also immigrated and, after getting married in Wisconsin, his family was one of the first to settle in Escanaba, Michigan where he worked for one of the railroad companies I believe. About that time, another of the Hawleys was a boat captain on lake Michigan and assisted in the rescue on the lake of many settlers stranded there during the Peshtigo fire in northern Wisconsin and Michigan which occurred at the exact same time as the Chicago fire, the atmospheric conditions being such that many fires apparently occurred spontaneously in different places at that time. One of his son joined the Green Bay Police Department and rose to the rank of Police Chief serving quite a number of years before retiring. Continuing my research, I discovered some records of a cemetery somewhere on the road towrd Kilmallock in County Limerick, but still in County Tipperary, which included inscriptions for Hallys or Halleys, leading me to again speculate as to whether they may not have been from the Clare and Limerick areas, and of the O'hAinle family group. At this point, I now believe that the prevailing view is that the O'hAilches were descended from Vikings, probably Danish, and that the Hallys in Newcastle and surroundig areas including Aughavanlomaun were among these O'hAilches, and this is also what I believe strongly to be true. The very best, Michael ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265

SNIPPET: Readers shared their experiences in Ireland in the May-June 1999 issue of Dublin's "Ireland of the Welcomes" magazine: Janet A. SIMMONS, Ashburnham, MA, shared: "It has been my privilege and pleasure to visit Inis Mor on the Aran Islands for the past three years. Each day while I was there, I stopped at a small restaurant in Kilmurvey at noon for 'tea and scones,' where I witnessed an episode that to me, epitomises the wonder of Ireland and the Irish people. I was sipping my tea when I noticed an elderly gentleman opposite me carefully nurturing a sandwich and tea. He stopped briefly and removed several coins from his pocket which he counted slowly. Then he finished his tea and sat looking about, apparently enjoying his stay. At this point, the manager of the restaurant approached him with a full cup of steaming tea, which he placed before the gentleman. The old gentleman took out his coins but the manager waved them away and left. What impressed me was the fact that the entire act was carried out with the deepest respect and dignity, there was no hint of condescension. To me, this is real Ireland - may you never lose your graciousness. I shall return in 1999 to your kind, thoughtful, considerate people." Peter & Bobbie WARNER, Redonda Beach, CA wrote: "My wife and I have been receiving your magazine for several years in anticipation of a trip to Ireland. We finally joined another couple in September 1998 and drove through the beautiful countryside. We concluded our trip with friends in Belfast. Since the second day was rainy, we decided to stay local and visit a village they thought we would like - Hillsborough. Imagine our excitement upon reading your article on Hillsborough in the Nov-Dec 1998 issue. The pictures brought back so many memories of a trip thoroughly enjoyed by all of us..." Edna K. STAFFORD, Wharton, NJ, penned, "While on vacation in Ireland, a friend and I went for a picnic on the Beara Peninsula, in Co. Cork. Cheese, wine, fruit and bread were purchased in the local shop, but ice was not on hand. We drove through some of the most beautiful scenery imaginable while looking for a place to purchase ice. Finally we reached a village and we were directed to a fishing pier with a huge ice-maker and locker. An obliging passer-by opened the locker and we obtained plenty of ice, but no one was around to offer payment to. Some time later while enjoying our picnic in a gorgeous scenic lay-by, a voice called out, 'Did you get your ice?] I replied that I had and asked him how he knew. With a grin he replied that he was in the shop in the village when I had asked for ice. I'm sure when your readers visit Ireland, they will find the stuff for fond memories as I have." Ed TONER, Brick, NJ, shared: "I'm glad to see an Irish shipyard doing a replica of the "Jeanie Johnston." She should be an asset and could prove very useful in many ways, as well as being a shot in the arm for Irish shipbuilding. As an aside, last summer there was a replica of one of the ships in Columbus's flotila, the "Nina," on display at the Barnegat Light Seaport Museum in NJ. My wife Marlene, (who is from Lucan, in Dublin), and I drove down to pay a visit. It was a rewarding experience. The replica was magnificent. Close inspection of the builders plaque, told us that the man behind the project was none other than an Irish-American from NY, Patrick SARSFIELD, whose namesake's demesne is in Lucan today. Small world!" E. Cahalane JENNINGS, Victoria, Australia, wrote: "I have been receiving your lovely magazine since I visited my cousins in Ireland in November 1997 and have been re-visiting them with each issue. As a child I always felt a close affinity with my Irish roots, as I was named after my great-grandmother, who was Miss Elizabeth CAHALANE, before she married. I received her surname as did my mother. I had not been to Ireland since 1981 when my mother generously paid for my trip. She wanted me to see the home of her father John MURRAY, who left Cork in 1887 to sail to Australia. My grandfather's letters home to Ireland were kept by his young brother Denis, who also wrote regularly and sent him the Irish newspapers. These letters were kept in the family by Denis's daughter and they proved invaluable to me when I was writing my Master thesis. The first chapter dealt with an Irish childhood in Australia. As my grandfather died before I was born, I like to think that he would have been pleased with my efforts to reflect on his stories. Fiana GRIFFIN's article on "Why Do the Irish Speak English," in the Nov-Dec 1998 issue reminded me of the impact on first seeing bi-lingual signposts and street names in Ireland. The Irish language is still alive in Melbourne, Australia, where classes in Irish grammar and conversation are run in adult education schools. I enjoy reading IOTW, congratulations on a quality magazine." Eileen SULLIVAN, Kyabram, Victoria, Australia, wrote: "What a lovely surprise for Christmas, IOTW with my favourite section, 'Byways Rather than Highways' featuring 'Towns of Tipperary.' Over the years we have been able to contact many of our relatives in Co. Tipperary and other counties. It is a great feeling to be able to visit the places where our ancestors came from and wonder how they must have felt leaving their home and travelling to this new country, in most cases never to see the rest of their families again. They were very brave or desperate people. We have always marvelled at the great history that surrounds Ireland .... In Australia, we do not see the evidence of an early way of living such as castles, round towers, ring forts and megalithic tombs ... Through IOTW we can share a little bit of Ireland with our friends in Australia." Bobbie Keith HOUSTON, Lafayette, LA, shared: "The photographs in IOTW provide a visual feast for anyone, but especially for those of us who are artists. I first visited your country several years ago and my dream since that time has been to return - just to paint. Last summer I had the good fortune of accompanying a group of fellow artists for the sole purpose of painting for two glorious weeks ... first in the wildly beautiful countryside of Connemara, then in the charming little fishing village of Dingle. Not only is the scenery inspirational, but the people are so wonderfully friendly and many of them were perfect studies for an artist, from the rugged fishermen hauling a boat onto a rocky beach at Killary Bay to the beautiful girl playing Celtic melodies on a flute outside a Dingle pub."

Thanks, Jean. Best, - Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jean R. Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER]English living in Ireland???? Ó hAilche of Tipperary / Hawley Hi Michael & Jerry -- Found this on the web. Perhaps the family was English and they moved to ( implanted in) Ireland. (?) Jean. Name forms Halley, Hally, Hauley, Hauly, Hawley, Hawly Origin English: 1) derived from the Old English words "halig" and "leah", meaning holy and wood. The name was given to those who came from Hawley, a place in Kent, England, which was most probably so named because it was once the location of a hallowed grove. 2) derived from the Old English word "h(e)all", meaning either manor or stone. The name was given to those who came from Hawley, a place in Hampshire, England. 3) derived from the Old Norse word "haugr" and the Old English word "leah", meaning mound and wood. The name was given to those who came from a place that no longer exists called Hawley, near Sheffield, England. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] Ó hAilche of Tipperary / Hawley Thanks, Michael. Happy to see that the Mulhall option has been eliminated. Plenty of options still remaining, though. Too many, and all based on mere supposition. <snip> ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Michael. Best, - Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael O'Hearn Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] S hAilche of Tipperary / Hawley Jerry, The map in question is published by Kane Strategic Marketing in Harbor Springs, Michigan. I just checked it and the family name is listed as O'Holy (Healy) as a noble chieftain family in Upper Kilkenny west. No need to go into a discussion of the Healys of Cork as O'Hart has already done so extensively in a footnote, and the map does give their correct family grouping different from that of O'Holys. The manuscript in question is the first chapter of Laxdaela Saga which relates the settlement of Helgi and his relatives in Iceland, and states that Helgi's mother Rafertach was the daughter of Kjarval. The footnote references King Cearbhall of Ossory whose death is listed in the Annals in the year 888 AD. Interestingly, supposing a Viking origin, the preferred Old English etymology of Hawley is "halig+leah", the "a" being long in halig, corresponding to "holy wood", the first part being cognate with German "helige" as in the German Christmas Carol "Heilege Nacht" and also the supposed Norse name Helge, which I assume was the same at that time in Danish. The first part could also be "h(e)all" in some locations, corresponding to either "hall" or "rock". A conjectural Old Norse derivation from Yorkshire would be "haugr"+leah" corresponding to "mound clearing". (Reference: Hanks and Hodges Dictionary of American Surnames). The best. Michael ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Michael, Translation: "Halley, Hally: pretty plentiful, Waterford, Kilkenny, etc. According to Woulfe they're of Scandinavian stock, but there is confusion with Ó h-Áille, which see." In other words, both Ó hÁille and Ó hAilche yield the name Halley / Hally, so it's hard to tell the families apart. Best, - Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected]b.com [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael O'Hearn Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 8:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] O'hAilche of Tipperary / Hawley Jerry, To shed further light on the subject, perhaps you could assist in the translation of this quote from the Irish Times surname search database: Ó h-Ailche Halley, Hally: cuíosach líonmhar, Port Lairge, Cill Chainnigh & rl. Deir de Bhulbh gur de bhunadh Lochlannach iad, ach tá meascadh le Ó h-Aille, q.v. Michael O'Hearn ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Michael. Happy to see that the Mulhall option has been eliminated. Plenty of options still remaining, though. Too many, and all based on mere supposition. We have to take into account that Ireland was hugely literate at this time (unlike the rest of Europe), with scores of clans making a living keeping records for all the lordships. Vikings amongst the Gaeil were noted in the genealogies, especially if they attained a lordship like Tuath Faralt. That would have been commented upon. Therefore, Woulfe's guess is less likely than Hart's. Hart's guess is less likely than Hogan's. Hogan's at least has the context of Ó hUidhrín's poem in which all the other families of Éile are Cianachta, with Ó hUidhrín making reference in that section to their descent from Cian. But who knows without documentation? It would be good to have Dan Hawley's Céitinn reference to get to the bottom of it. Two other important things to note: a) - the Irish sept is definitely supposed to indicate paternal descent, unlike the Scottish sept which I understand can indicate mere political alliance; b) - the territory of Osraighe and the territory of Éile are known. No need for supposition. Sometimes ancient placenames were replaced and eventually lost, but the loss of a 12th century placename in Ireland is extremely rare. Usually the old placename remained known even if the new placename was always used. Best, - Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael O'Hearn Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 8:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] O'hAilche of Tipperary / Hawley Jerry, Thank you again for the scholarly additions. Where to begin? First, my fourth cousin Sandra Hawley traveled to Newcastle, County Tipperary, Ireland several years ago and obtained information from the baptismal certificates including baptismal sponsors for all of the thirteen children of Michael Hally and Kate English, all of them Hallys including many of the sponsors. As far as I or anyone knows, the name only became Hawley after most of the family, except Patrick Hally who stayed behind, immigrated to America (one son died in transport and another died shortly after arrival). As far as I know, the name Hawley was adopted only after arrival as an anglicized, Americanized version of Hally. I have an Irish ancestral map printed in Michigan which probably follows Hogan's and Carney's suggestions because it lists the name as Holy located in NW Kilkenny around the town of Urlingford which would have been Osraigh territory, although they are listed as Ciannacht, perhaps through a confusion between the earlier Osraigh Cearbhall and the later Eile Cearbhall ancestor of O'Carrolls, unless Eile O'Carroll did in fact extend to that part of Kilkenny at that time which would imply that they were Ciannacht. One son of Michael and Kate in Meridian, Michigan used the name Holly, and that seems to be the preferred pronunciation in America. So based on the location in Tipperary, we are probably talking about O'hAilche insofar as Mulhall of Waterford as Hally would be the exception which proves the rule. Just because the name is Hawley in America by one family does not, in my humble opinion, make all of the Hallys of Aughavanlomaun Mulhalls. O'Hart places Tuath Ferault in Tipperary in the vicinity of Templemore I believe, and extending into Kilkenny in the vicinity of Urlingford. By suggesting that they were a branch of the O'Kennedy's, he seems to me to imply that this territory was part of Ormond. Woulfe likewise places them in and around Templemore, and later appearing as merhants in Cashel and in Kilmallock, County Limerick. This would also tend to suggest that they were of Viking origin, as some Vikings could have become "middle men" after the Viking defeat at clontarf in 1013 AD. As noted previously, the name Ailche, of old memory in Eire, was used as a synonym or substitute for the Norse name Helgi. As previously noted, there was a gentleman named Helgi at that time who was half Norwegian and half Irish being the son of Eivind Austmann of Norway and Rafertach daughter of Kjarval identified with King Cearbhall of Ossory, as I have discovered in a note to a recent addition of Saxo's History of Denmark. (Sorry, I don't have the name of the original saga manuscript but it may be listed in the note.) This would tend to support the view of an Ossory origin of Hally as a Viking or half Viking family. Parenthetically, Hawley is in some cases etymologically of Norse origin which may have influenced the choice of the Americanized version Hawley of the Hally family in America. I referred to the 12th century manuscript "Wars of Ceallachan of Cashel" to provide one explanation of how O'hAilche, if in fact of Danish origin as suggested by Rev. Woulfe, could have been associated with the O'Kennedy sept as stated in O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees where he also says that they were hereditary physicians. I agree that membership in a sept does not necessarily imply paternal descent. However, it does indicate close family bonds, and this is what I take O'Hart to mean when he says that O'hAilche was a branch of the O'Kennedys of Ormond, as I also agree with Woulfe that they were originally Danish Vikings, not to suggest that this was an attempt to falsify a pedigree. Rather, because I believe that they were ordinary Vikings of Waterford or south Tipperary, there is no record of their actual ancestry and probably was none then either. I do agree with you insofar as I do not believe they were transposed from North Tipperary or County Kilkenny to the Newcastle area, also in agreement with Dan Hawley of Newcastle in this respect, who incidentally does believe that all of the Hallys in that area including himself although using a different spelling are O'hAilche. Michael O'Hearn ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Susan, Did any of your WELCH - WELSH relatives land in Boston? I have WELCH ancestors who came to Boston, supposedly from Cork, about 1850s. My John WELCH married a Julia COUGHLIN in Ireland and most of their chidlren were born in Boston. Thanks, Joanne Massachusetts

Jean, Come on now. I have referenced the same etymology as yours. There were Anglo-Irish families like those of Michael Hally's wife Kate English. But what you suggest would be like saying that you or your husband's surname is derived from an English family whose family name pertains to a type of grain customarily thrown at weddings, rather than to a descendant of the Welsh king Rhys (ap Rhys in Welsh). My gg-grandmother Ellen was Ellen Hally before she married and Ellen Powers after she married in Ireland and after she arrived in the USA. Both good Irish names. We are talking Irish here, not English. The best, Michael ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com

Jerry, The map in question is published by Kane Strategic Marketing in Harbor Springs, Michigan. I just checked it and the family name is listed as O'Holy (Healy) as a noble chieftain family in Upper Kilkenny west. No need to go into a discussion of the Healys of Cork as O'Hart has already done so extensively in a footnote, and the map does give their correct family grouping different from that of O'Holys. The manuscript in question is the first chapter of Laxdaela Saga which relates the settlement of Helgi and his relatives in Iceland, and states that Helgi's mother Rafertach was the daughter of Kjarval. The footnote references King Cearbhall of Ossory whose death is listed in the Annals in the year 888 AD. Interestingly, supposing a Viking origin, the preferred Old English etymology of Hawley is "halig+leah", the "a" being long in halig, corresponding to "holy wood", the first part being cognate with German "helige" as in the German Christmas Carol "Heilege Nacht" and also the supposed Norse name Helge, which I assume was the same at that time in Danish. The first part could also be "h(e)all" in some locations, corresponding to either "hall" or "rock". A conjectural Old Norse derivation from Yorkshire would be "haugr"+leah" corresponding to "mound clearing". (Reference: Hanks and Hodges Dictionary of American Surnames). The best. Michael ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/