This makes so much more sense! I guess it's like, what is an American??? well ... we are people born in America, but with ethnic backgrounds from all over. still, weren't the migrations so long ago, that the different ethnic mixes by now have blended into ... an Irishman? with his/her own unique genetic makeup? America has only been America for 221 years. I appreciate very much the information, and especially about the Gaels and Celts. We have the same in America in the American Indian tribes, different tribes but in the same linguistic group. Now ... about the Fir Bolgs ... are they historical, or are they mythological? I thought they were mythological. But .. if your wife is a Fir Bolg ... she's gotta be real! So I would like to learn about Fir Bolgs. Just the name, is intriguiging. Thanks! Phyllis >Hi Phyllis, > >We have a couple of families, like your Doyles who are Scandinavian/Viking >in origin. We also have a number of families who are Normans, who in turn >were originally Danes. But most Irish families are Irish, not Viking nor >Norman. > >Remember that the Irish aren't a race, but a nation made up of a number of >different migrations. We had (and still have) tribes of tall pale blonds >(Leinster), short freckled red-heads, middle height and tall sandy >blond/brunettes (Connacht), short stocky barrel-chested dark-complexioned >brunettes (west Cork), tall big-boned Fir Bolg with jet black hair (Kerry), >just to name a few. In addition to the Irish who have been in Ireland since >(or before) the last ice age, we had identifiable immigrations by Celtic >tribes like the Brigantes (the Gorman family is part of this tribe), the >Menapii (the Monaghans seem to descend from these), the Belgii (Fir Bolg in >Irish, including my wife), etc. Then we had later >migrations/invasions/settlements by Vikings (your Doyles) and Normans >(Burkes, Fitzgeralds, Butlers, etc.), all of whom eventually became >Irish-speaking. So eventually, all these people became Celts, which is a >linguistic group (i.e., Celtic-speaking), not a racial/genetic group. > >I would suggest that today an Irishman/Irishwoman is a person born in >Ireland who wants to be called an Irishman/Irishwoman. (Some people in the >north don't want to be called Irish.) In contrast, a Gael in the Irish >language is a Gaelic speaker, no matter where born. A Gael can be of any >ethnicity and of any citizenship. I'm a Gael even though I was born and >raised in America. I have friends who are Gaeil who have never been to >Ireland. > >Hope that's helpful. > >Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, - Jerry > >

Me too. Aren't we clever! On the other hand, these 71-year-old blue eyes don't have quite the sparkle that they used to. In my college days, we used to put on our mascara and then add Vasoline to give shine to the lashes. We didn't have all the eye enhansing make-up back then. Now when I really need it, the new stuff ends up caking in the wrinkles. Damn! You can't win! Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] IRISH-AMERICAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 43 > <quote: By the way, is it a fallacy that most Irish tend to have thin > lips > rather than the Angelina Jolie type? I've always envied gals who had > those lush lips! > > > To me, this is no fallacy, but a reality. From my GrGrnparents, both of > whom migrated from different areas of Ireland, we have thin lips. My > mom's family, also of Irish descent, all the same...thin lips. I think of > that masterful Boston Celtic, Larry Byrd...have you seen recent pictures > of him? Really thin lips! > > I too envy lucious lipped females, but am not about to become a collagen > ejectee to produce them. Don't we always envy those on the other side of > the mountain? I just wear very pale lipstick, and highlight my eyes > instead! > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry > at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The blood type analysis and the DNA analysis are two different things. The people doing the DNA analysis are geneticists. They have found different genetic patterns from identifyable genetic markers from which they have classified populations throughout the world into groups called haplogroups based on their genetic similarity. This is based on the changes occurring in the genetic structure over time, which is very, very slow in the case of mtDNA. However, it only works by tracing back on the male line using the Y-chromosome DNA from father to grandfather to great-grandfather etc., or conversely by using the mtDNA from mother to grandmother to great-grandmother, etc.. Essentially, we are talking about variations on the same theme because if you go back far enough, you arrive at a particular woman with a particular genetic makeup who becomes the mother of everyone. This can be proven by science because we know from archeology the time frame in which homo sapiens first appear, and we know the approximate rate of variation in mtDNA. Assuming the hypothesis that there was one original mother, scientists can calculate when she lived based on the known approximate rate of variation and the observable extent of genetic variation throughout the world. Then, they can compare that with the known time frame for homo sapiens living on planet earth. If we assume more than one original mother with different genetic makeup, we would have to have much more genetic variation today than what scientists actually observe in order for it to fit within the time frame. If we assume more than one mother with the same genetic makeup, i.e. identical twins, then we also have to admit that both had the same biological mother which gets us to the same result of one original mother. Michael O'Hearn ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com

Thanks, Michael. That is amazing! Am I correct that you are saying that I could not find others of my maiden name - Gavagan (originally Gavican) through a DNA test because I am female, but I could discover my geographical origin through my maternal line? Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Hearn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:54 PM Subject: [IRISH-AMER] Thin lips?....What is an Irishman/woman? > It depends on what you are looking for. > > If it is connected to a surname, then the Y-chrmosome > would work in the paternal line to tell you whether > there is any degree of common ancestry among people of > that surname as compared with people in Ireland of any > surname. The mtDNA test would not work because it is > only inherited through the female line. > > However, if you are trying to find out where your > mother's maternal ancestors originated, then the mtDNA > test would work. I contacted a guy in New Zealand who > found that his mother's Irish maternal line went back > to the Ukraine in Eastern Europe, thus corroborating > the view that Indo-European settlers whether Celt or > Viking provided her maternal lineage. > > > > Michael O'Hearn > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry > at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

An Irishman is One, of two kinds of people, the other, is those that wish they were!! Any Irishman will tell you that!! Have a great day.... Ed McCarthy

Exactly, Fran. But the location on the maternal line would go back many, many generations. Bryan Sykes originally found seven distinct groups in Europe with seven varying types of mtDNA. Today, if I am not mistaken, the number has increased to nine. What the test will do is tell you which group the ancestor belonged to, this being your mother's mother's mother's mother's. . . etc. . . .mother who at that time shared identifyable genetic characteristics with one of those groups. Michael O'Hearn ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/

Very welcome, Rosemary. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rose Mary A. (McGrath) Neal Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] So What Is An Irishman, Anyway? Jerry, Thank you so very much for this informative bit of information. Ro [email protected] wrote: Hi Phyllis, We have a couple of families, like your Doyles who are Scandinavian/Viking in origin. We also have a number of families who are Normans, who in turn were originally Danes. But most Irish families are Irish, not Viking nor Norman. Remember that the Irish aren't a race, but a nation made up of a number of different migrations. We had (and still have) tribes of tall pale blonds (Leinster), short freckled red-heads, middle height and tall sandy blond/brunettes (Connacht), short stocky barrel-chested dark-complexioned brunettes (west Cork), tall big-boned Fir Bolg with jet black hair (Kerry), just to name a few. In addition to the Irish who have been in Ireland since (or before) the last ice age, we had identifiable immigrations by Celtic tribes like the Brigantes (the Gorman family is part of this tribe), the Menapii (the Monaghans seem to descend from these), the Belgii (Fir Bolg in Irish, including my wife), etc. Then we had later migrations/invasions/settlements by Vikings (your Doyles) and Normans (Burkes, Fitzgeralds, Butlers, etc.), all of whom eventually became Irish-speaking. So eventually, all these people became Celts, which is a linguistic group (i.e., Celtic-speaking), not a racial/genetic group. I would suggest that today an Irishman/Irishwoman is a person born in Ireland who wants to be called an Irishman/Irishwoman. (Some people in the north don't want to be called Irish.) In contrast, a Gael in the Irish language is a Gaelic speaker, no matter where born. A Gael can be of any ethnicity and of any citizenship. I'm a Gael even though I was born and raised in America. I have friends who are Gaeil who have never been to Ireland. Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, - Jerry Rose Mary A.(Mc Grath)Neal ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi! I'm such a mish-mash of Co. Kerry - SULLIVANS, CONNORS/O'CONNORS, SHEAS; Co. Roscommon - GAVICANS, BEIRNES, HANLEYS; Co. Tyrone - MCELROYS, TAGUES, CASSIDYS; and CARROLLS and LYNCHES from Co. ?...with redheads and blue-eyed dark haired folks with fair skin, and black hair and eyes and swarthy skinned "black Irish" - all of which produced me - black wavy hair, fair skin and blue eyes (no freckles). By the way, is it a fallacy that most Irish tend to have thin lips rather than the Angelina Jolie type? I've always envied gals who had those lush lips! That's as far as I've researched my gene pool, but there's also some English in there, so I guess the Irish DNA hunt wouldn't work for me. Or would it? And I've been under the impression that the DNA test was only effective for men. Is that correct? Thanks! Fran Weeks

Hi Phyllis, We have a couple of families, like your Doyles who are Scandinavian/Viking in origin. We also have a number of families who are Normans, who in turn were originally Danes. But most Irish families are Irish, not Viking nor Norman. Remember that the Irish aren't a race, but a nation made up of a number of different migrations. We had (and still have) tribes of tall pale blonds (Leinster), short freckled red-heads, middle height and tall sandy blond/brunettes (Connacht), short stocky barrel-chested dark-complexioned brunettes (west Cork), tall big-boned Fir Bolg with jet black hair (Kerry), just to name a few. In addition to the Irish who have been in Ireland since (or before) the last ice age, we had identifiable immigrations by Celtic tribes like the Brigantes (the Gorman family is part of this tribe), the Menapii (the Monaghans seem to descend from these), the Belgii (Fir Bolg in Irish, including my wife), etc. Then we had later migrations/invasions/settlements by Vikings (your Doyles) and Normans (Burkes, Fitzgeralds, Butlers, etc.), all of whom eventually became Irish-speaking. So eventually, all these people became Celts, which is a linguistic group (i.e., Celtic-speaking), not a racial/genetic group. I would suggest that today an Irishman/Irishwoman is a person born in Ireland who wants to be called an Irishman/Irishwoman. (Some people in the north don't want to be called Irish.) In contrast, a Gael in the Irish language is a Gaelic speaker, no matter where born. A Gael can be of any ethnicity and of any citizenship. I'm a Gael even though I was born and raised in America. I have friends who are Gaeil who have never been to Ireland. Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, - Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Phyllis Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] So What Is An Irishman, Anyway? Okay ... here's the next question. My mother, who is so very Irish, has black hair and blue eyes, with fair skin that freckles. Does this tell you anything about her Irish genetic makeup ... possibly Turkey, Balkan, etc influence on the Irish? I have read that the Basques of the Iberian Peninsula accounts for the black hair. Could the black hair possibly have come from a Mediterranean line such as the Turkish etc areas. Btw, I am told that Mediterranean in the sense of the Alpha Thallasemia Trait encompasses Italy, Northern Africa, the Middle East, and Asia/Oriental. And there are other Mediterranean traits, as well. I may have another of them .. it is being explored by testing at this time. This blows all my concepts of what Irish means (genetically). I always think of Irish as being Scandanavian/Viking in origin. One of our strong lines is DOYLE, which is supposed to be descendants of Vikings. So where am I going wrong on that one? The DOYLES had the blonde hair/blue eyes, our HAGARTY/HEGARTY line had the black hair & blue eyes. Our DOYLES were from Roscommon & Galway, our HAGARTY/HEGARTYs were from Longford, Parish Templemichael ... and still are there, in the Farnagh area of northern Longford. The deceased are buried in the Ballymacormack Cemetery and the living cousins are still farming. Thanks for your information. I am puzzling through all this and I have to tell you, am rethinking the concept of "What Is An Irishman" !! (Besides being the best people in the world, that is!!) If you had to come up with the recipe of that an Irishman is, you could throw in many ingredients, apparently! that would make him a hybrid of the best sort, and hybrids are usually the strongest organisms. Cheers! Phyllis >In the studies mentioned, the closest European population group would >be the one in the Balkans region. The gene may have been transmitted >with the early neolithic settlers from the Middle East who came across >Anatolia (modern day Turkey). This would be Mediterranean but not >necessarily Oriental or Asian. > > Because of the Mediterranean element, my guess is that it was >originally transmitted from somewhere in Asia perhaps along a trading >route and then through southern France, southern Germany, or >Switzerland. > > > > > >type O is disproportionately prevalent in both Ireland and among the Berbers of North Africa. > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

DNA testing can be done on male and female, Fran. Try this website for starters http://www.familytreedna.com/tutorial_A.html Fran Weeks wrote: >Hi! > I'm such a mish-mash of Co. Kerry - SULLIVANS, CONNORS/O'CONNORS, SHEAS; Co. Roscommon - GAVICANS, BEIRNES, HANLEYS; Co. Tyrone - MCELROYS, TAGUES, CASSIDYS; and CARROLLS and LYNCHES from Co. ?...with redheads and blue-eyed dark haired folks with fair skin, and black hair and eyes and swarthy skinned "black Irish" - all of which produced me - black wavy hair, fair skin and blue eyes (no freckles). > By the way, is it a fallacy that most Irish tend to have thin lips rather than the Angelina Jolie type? I've always envied gals who had those lush lips! > That's as far as I've researched my gene pool, but there's also some English in there, so I guess the Irish DNA hunt wouldn't work for me. Or would it? And I've been under the impression that the DNA test was only effective for men. Is that correct? > Thanks! >Fran Weeks > >====Irish American Mailing List===== >Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

<quote: By the way, is it a fallacy that most Irish tend to have thin lips rather than the Angelina Jolie type? I've always envied gals who had those lush lips! > To me, this is no fallacy, but a reality. From my GrGrnparents, both of whom migrated from different areas of Ireland, we have thin lips. My mom's family, also of Irish descent, all the same...thin lips. I think of that masterful Boston Celtic, Larry Byrd...have you seen recent pictures of him? Really thin lips! I too envy lucious lipped females, but am not about to become a collagen ejectee to produce them. Don't we always envy those on the other side of the mountain? I just wear very pale lipstick, and highlight my eyes instead!

SNIPPET: In the May-June 2005 issue of Dublin's "Ireland of the Welcomes" magazine, readers commented: Peggy WALDON, Denver, CO: "For many years the pages of your magazine have allowed me to experience my long time dream of someday visiting Ireland. This longing was based on a letter dated 1861, which my great-great-great-grandmother wrote to my great-great-grandmother. I always wanted to find my roots in County Cork and the towns mentioned in her letter. In July 2004, after all those fifty-plus years of dreaming, the trip became a reality. My sister, cousin and I experienced a truly wonderful ten-day trip to Ireland. We chose to join the 'Best of Ireland' tour and it truly was the very best. On my return home, two large binders of pictures weren't enough to capture the wonder, colour and feel of the trip. Memories and mental pictures of Ireland kept filling my head, so I decided to capture them through the medium of my hobby -- stained glass. The phrase 'a picture speaks a thousand words' kept going around in my head. The completed piece contains castles, dancers, a claddagh ring made from old church glass, Connemara marble, a lace background and lots of green. I hung it in one of the windows in my workroom to remind me of the trip and encourage me to return to Ireland as soon as possible ....." Michael B. MERWICK, Seattle, WA, shared: I am compelled to report that a pervasive heart-wrenching sadness occurs when your brilliantly written magazine finally reaches my lap. (I've given up trying to be first reading it because my wife of fifty-four years, always wins the race for the treasured magazine). My sadness hardly diminished while reading every word on every page; however the fascination, awe and thankfulness for this piece of Ireland coming to our home quietly seeps into my bones. My sadness, apparently pathological, according to my physician friend DOWNEY from Killarney, is described by him as simply a mental hiccup that must be tolerated. I know exactly how to cure this phenomenon: move directly to Ireland immediately. My grandparents' parish credentials offer citizenship. My wife suggests that I will be moving alone, because of our seven grandchildren, but she assures me that she would positively visit on a regular schedule. Thus my affliction would vanish, as I spend my remaining years simply tracing, in person, the diverse and wonderful places you describe in each issue. Only twice in the bosom of your land, during our second trip we travelled for thirty days in the Southwest, mostly Cork. In Eyeries, we visited a cousin with the same first and last time who lived in the very stone house which was built by my great-great-grandfather circa 1700; another cousin also with the same name lives and teaches in Bandon. Riobard O'DWYER, of Eyeries, a bard, retired teacher, genealogist and great accordion player explained carefully, that his great-grandfather and mine escaped from a shipwreck off the Southwest coast while sailing from the east coast of Ireland; they swam to shore together and established themselves within the same parish. Among Riobard's credo's is his trio to Butte, Montana, as a quest of Irish folk there seeking his knowledge about their past in Ireland. With your Jan-Feb 2005 issue in my lap, featuring Cork City Gaol, Wooden Boats, the photographs and the wonderful advertisements bring lumps to our collective throats. Next year, when our number two grand-daughter moves to Dublin for her third college year, we pray that God willing, we and others of this clan may also enjoy the fresh air, spirit and people of home. God Bless you for your work."

It depends on what you are looking for. If it is connected to a surname, then the Y-chrmosome would work in the paternal line to tell you whether there is any degree of common ancestry among people of that surname as compared with people in Ireland of any surname. The mtDNA test would not work because it is only inherited through the female line. However, if you are trying to find out where your mother's maternal ancestors originated, then the mtDNA test would work. I contacted a guy in New Zealand who found that his mother's Irish maternal line went back to the Ukraine in Eastern Europe, thus corroborating the view that Indo-European settlers whether Celt or Viking provided her maternal lineage. Michael O'Hearn ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news

In addition to that, in terms of science, most of the superficial characteristics we observe in people are relatively unimportant genetically speaking. For example, given the frequency of type O blood and other genetic markers, the populations of Europe and Africa are closer in ancestry than are either to the populations of Asia and Oceania. So obviously, skin, eye and hair color have very little to do with it. Given the relatively high frequencies of blood types O and Rh-negative among the Irish, Berbers in the Atlas Mountains of North Africa, and the Basques of Spain, there was probably some sea trade between North Africa, the Iberian Peninsula and Ireland in Neolithic times, whether or not in reindeer hides for ship sails I cannot speculate. But then again, we cannot read too much into this because both type O and type Rh-negative are simpler blood types and therefore probably represent earlier types. They remain high in the above-mentioned locations precisely because these are relatively isolated and far removed from where the later types became prevalent, such as in the Middle East where agriculture developed. Just in terms of frequency, the basic type Irish numerically speaking has dark hair and blue eyes. The blond hair and blue eye type probably became widespread among the Finns and Scandinavians as a protection from predators e.g. wolves, and also from other hostile tribes. It is harder to spot in a cold, snowy landscape, so over a period of many, many millions of years, the lighter characteristics, even though recessive genetically, would tend to be inherited and passed down to succeeding generations in ever increasing numbers. Just as an afterthought, Turkey in the Near East has the lowest incidence of hg1 blood type at 1.8% on a spectrum stretching from the Near East across Europe with the Spanish Basques at 89% and Connaught Irish at 98% frequency. In the American colonies, all settlers from Ireland that I know about identified themselves as being Irish. It was only later that the terms Scotch-Irish and Anglo-Irish began to be used. Keep in mind that we atre talking about frequencies of genetic markers. Michael O'Hearn ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com

Jerry, Thank you so very much for this informative bit of information. Ro [email protected] wrote: Hi Phyllis, We have a couple of families, like your Doyles who are Scandinavian/Viking in origin. We also have a number of families who are Normans, who in turn were originally Danes. But most Irish families are Irish, not Viking nor Norman. Remember that the Irish aren't a race, but a nation made up of a number of different migrations. We had (and still have) tribes of tall pale blonds (Leinster), short freckled red-heads, middle height and tall sandy blond/brunettes (Connacht), short stocky barrel-chested dark-complexioned brunettes (west Cork), tall big-boned Fir Bolg with jet black hair (Kerry), just to name a few. In addition to the Irish who have been in Ireland since (or before) the last ice age, we had identifiable immigrations by Celtic tribes like the Brigantes (the Gorman family is part of this tribe), the Menapii (the Monaghans seem to descend from these), the Belgii (Fir Bolg in Irish, including my wife), etc. Then we had later migrations/invasions/settlements by Vikings (your Doyles) and Normans (Burkes, Fitzgeralds, Butlers, etc.), all of whom eventually became Irish-speaking. So eventually, all these people became Celts, which is a linguistic group (i.e., Celtic-speaking), not a racial/genetic group. I would suggest that today an Irishman/Irishwoman is a person born in Ireland who wants to be called an Irishman/Irishwoman. (Some people in the north don't want to be called Irish.) In contrast, a Gael in the Irish language is a Gaelic speaker, no matter where born. A Gael can be of any ethnicity and of any citizenship. I'm a Gael even though I was born and raised in America. I have friends who are Gaeil who have never been to Ireland. Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, - Jerry Rose Mary A.(Mc Grath)Neal

Greetings I had my DNA tested a few years ago. Does anyone out there know where a person can have the results interpreted as to what all the numbers mean and where the roots trace back to. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you. jc

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2003/january8/genetics-18.html My family lore has always been that physical traits only last 6 generations. I don't understand all of this, but it is fun learning !! Cece

It's very curious that the outfit that tested your DNA didn't also give you an interpretation of the results. Certainly with the present-day DNA testing services, e.g., FamilyTreeDNA, the interpretation of results is the most important part of the test. Maybe you should go back to your testing company and see if you missed something. BTW, my Irish forebears, Slowey, Brown, Davidson, and maybe Gallagher put my mtDNA in the H* haplogroup. My Y-DNA puts me in the I1a haplogroup by reason of my northern European forebears. Any cousins out there??? [email protected] wrote: >Greetings > >I had my DNA tested a few years ago. Does anyone out there know where a >person can have the results interpreted as to what all the numbers mean and where >the roots trace back to. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you. > >jc > >====Irish American Mailing List===== >Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Okay ... here's the next question. My mother, who is so very Irish, has black hair and blue eyes, with fair skin that freckles. Does this tell you anything about her Irish genetic makeup ... possibly Turkey, Balkan, etc influence on the Irish? I have read that the Basques of the Iberian Peninsula accounts for the black hair. Could the black hair possibly have come from a Mediterranean line such as the Turkish etc areas. Btw, I am told that Mediterranean in the sense of the Alpha Thallasemia Trait encompasses Italy, Northern Africa, the Middle East, and Asia/Oriental. And there are other Mediterranean traits, as well. I may have another of them .. it is being explored by testing at this time. This blows all my concepts of what Irish means (genetically). I always think of Irish as being Scandanavian/Viking in origin. One of our strong lines is DOYLE, which is supposed to be descendants of Vikings. So where am I going wrong on that one? The DOYLES had the blonde hair/blue eyes, our HAGARTY/HEGARTY line had the black hair & blue eyes. Our DOYLES were from Roscommon & Galway, our HAGARTY/HEGARTYs were from Longford, Parish Templemichael ... and still are there, in the Farnagh area of northern Longford. The deceased are buried in the Ballymacormack Cemetery and the living cousins are still farming. Thanks for your information. I am puzzling through all this and I have to tell you, am rethinking the concept of "What Is An Irishman" !! (Besides being the best people in the world, that is!!) If you had to come up with the recipe of that an Irishman is, you could throw in many ingredients, apparently! that would make him a hybrid of the best sort, and hybrids are usually the strongest organisms. Cheers! Phyllis >In the studies mentioned, the closest European >population group would be the one in the Balkans >region. The gene may have been transmitted with the >early neolithic settlers from the Middle East who came >across Anatolia (modern day Turkey). This would be >Mediterranean but not necessarily Oriental or Asian. > > Because of the Mediterranean element, my guess is that it was >originally transmitted from somewhere in Asia perhaps >along a trading route and then through southern >France, southern Germany, or Switzerland. > > > > > >type O is disproportionately prevalent in both Ireland and among the Berbers of North Africa. > >

Thank you, Michael, for presenting us with this fascinating article. What an incredible amount of information is to be found in it, and what an amazing amount of misinformation it ballyhooed! It is remarkable how many "historians" felt justified in changing or inventing facts to make things look as they wished them to. What gall! and how frustrating for those researchers and scholars who spent their lifetimes trying to separate fact from fiction. Anyway, I feel better informed now about my Irish roots than I did before I read it. And, by the way, I believe that I am among the most common of blood types - "the Universal Donor" - O+. Thank you. Fran Weeks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O'Hearn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] [IRISH-AMER } MCV & blood types >I have discovered that I was probably right the first time about it being a >rare blood type. Not type O but type Rh-negative. > > http://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/bronze/celts.htm > > > > > > > Michael O'Hearn > > > > --------------------------------- > Never Miss an Email > Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry > at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message