I have updated the County Down births on my website, The County Down Griffiths Valuations 1863 is now working, also there is a more detailed Griffiths Valuation for Banbridge, Dromore, Kilkeel, Maghera, Kilcoo, on their section of the website, and the best of luck in your research. Raymond http://www.raymondscountydownwebsite.com

HI Barbara, Just saw your post but if you are interested in staying in Leitrim then check the Aughavas Self Cater home. They are great people and the home is clean and has what you need to be comfortable and have meals in if you want. They are relatives of ours and we stayed in the home last time we went there. We hope to again soon. Becky

If anyone is interested, the National Geographic site at: https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html has a great amount of info on the Genographic Project they started. I believe this was the "Genome Project" which went around the world collecting DNA from all countries. The bottom line seems to be that we all are descended from African people some 60,000 years ago. The maps on this site will show you the progression of this people around the world. Patricia

Murph, As I suggested in my previous post, 12 markers aren't enough to give you the "precise" information for which you are looking. Upgrade to 25, if your project allows, or 37, which you can do without being part of a project. I noted that my cousin had a 25 marker test, of which he originally had an exact match on 12. This man didn't share a surname, and our MCRA was so far back as to be insignificant to our search. Now with the 25/25 match, the probability of MCRA is 50% for 3 generations (75 years) to 95% within 13 generations (325 years). Our GrGf could have been the MCRA within 3 generations, which would not place us in IRE, as he was in the USA for 80 years (all childbearing years), and was himself, about 3 generations old! 10 generations would be only 250 years, which just barely places us in IRE. In order to narrow the probability of the MCRA, my cousin and his 25 match have updated to a 37 marker test, and I'll keep you updated if you write to me, offlist at [email protected] . The bottom line is that you should upgrade from 12 markers in order to pinpoint more information. I don't know what one gets with a 12 marker test, but we received a longitude latitude measure, which puts us in Cork, IRE, and thus confirms our family "believed to be from Cork, but no one knows for sure" as true! I'm not knowledgeable enough to answer the "estimate" Nial question, but my cousin didn't hit in that line. Best Regards, Patricia [email protected] wrote: Don't forget to add/check your surname to the Irish-American Mailing List Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/Today's Topics: 1. DNA testing and (lack of) uses (Murph) From: Murph <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 22:33:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [IRISH-AMER] DNA testing and (lack of) uses Dear Michael, Patrica, ALL, Yes, I am a member of FTDNA and have my tests online, as well as my surname group and the geographic group of Irish Heritage, which yes, Nial of the Nine Hostages is reputed to be R1b or whatever it was (sorry do not have the exact data in front of me but I know exactly what you are talking about)---the problem I saw, which may or may not be valid, is they "estimated" Niall's DNA halpotype/group --- now how exactly one would "estimate" DNA I do not know and I am sure they have some basis, but...... I was more interested in the practical uses today for research as all of us doing Irish research cannot get records much later than the famine years IF THAT and this seems like a good way to get back further, but I am a bit lost. I did read the definition of my halpotype and yes, what Michael noted I think is what they say on ther FTDNA pages for these groups, but I always wondered, and still do as a "goal" of family research is to figure out who made it through the famine (as my Murphy's did not emigrate to the US till the mid-1920s, right during the civil war in Ireland...in fact my GF was married in England in 1921 as he was there working as a miner) --- and I too matched several people that do not share my surname, odd, so the DNA testing must go back so far it is useless for more recent purposes --- I noticed the FTDNA site has a page for an algorithum for making a closer "Most Recent Ancestor " calculation with added traditional research and further testing of cousins.... but the answers I was and am hoping for are back a tad more than that, but certainly not into BC.....more like who was the first of my Surname in Ireland ....I was looking in the 1659 Census returns for Co. Sligo, some book, and ONE of my surname is listed and it happens to be the Christian name that is most common in my family, John....did not get the book though as I will wait till I get to Dublin as I am sure thay have them --- Even the surname project seems spotty at best..... Anyone know how to better use DNA results (12 Y DNA that is)? Murph --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. To contact the IRISH-AMERICAN list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the IRISH-AMERICAN mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text.

SNIPPET: Leonora Kearney BARRY (1849-1923) was born in Co. Cork and emigrated to the U. S. in 1852. She became a school teacher, married and had three children. When her husband died in 1880, she began working in a clothing factory. Wages and conditions were appalling and she soon joined a local chapter of the Knights of Labor. She quickly demonstrated her leadership abilities and was named in 1886 to the post of general investigator for the Knight's women's department. She served in that capacity for four years, touring the country, writing reports and giving speeches. She resigned in 1990 to marry Obediah R. LAKE, a newspaper printer from St. Louis - hence, her nickname "Mother Lake." For the remainder of her life she remained active in causes related to women's suffrage, temperance and other social reform movements.

Dear Michael, Patrica, ALL, Yes, I am a member of FTDNA and have my tests online, as well as my surname group and the geographic group of Irish Heritage, which yes, Nial of the Nine Hostages is reputed to be R1b or whatever it was (sorry do not have the exact data in front of me but I know exactly what you are talking about)---the problem I saw, which may or may not be valid, is they "estimated" Niall's DNA halpotype/group --- now how exactly one would "estimate" DNA I do not know and I am sure they have some basis, but...... I was more interested in the practical uses today for research as all of us doing Irish research cannot get records much later than the famine years IF THAT and this seems like a good way to get back further, but I am a bit lost. I did read the definition of my halpotype and yes, what Michael noted I think is what they say on ther FTDNA pages for these groups, but I always wondered, and still do as a "goal" of family research is to figure out who made it through the famine (as my Murphy's did not emigrate to the US till the mid-1920s, right during the civil war in Ireland...in fact my GF was married in England in 1921 as he was there working as a miner) --- and I too matched several people that do not share my surname, odd, so the DNA testing must go back so far it is useless for more recent purposes --- I noticed the FTDNA site has a page for an algorithum for making a closer "Most Recent Ancestor " calculation with added traditional research and further testing of cousins.... but the answers I was and am hoping for are back a tad more than that, but certainly not into BC.....more like who was the first of my Surname in Ireland ....I was looking in the 1659 Census returns for Co. Sligo, some book, and ONE of my surname is listed and it happens to be the Christian name that is most common in my family, John....did not get the book though as I will wait till I get to Dublin as I am sure thay have them --- Even the surname project seems spotty at best..... Anyone know how to better use DNA results (12 Y DNA that is)? Murph --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Guys, R1b1c7 is the same haplogroup that was found in great numbers in the NW of Ireland and in Scotland which brought up the question of whether those having this pattern are direct descendants of Niall if the Nine Hostages. Frome what I have been finding out, such as through distribution maps, The R1b type is an earlier type from the R1 group of SW Asia which became the dominant group in Western Europe and is extremely prevalent among the Basques and Irish. A subsequent wave of R1b type entered Europe through Asia Minor (Turkey) and settled in the Balkan region. A later variant of R1 is R1a which forms the bulk of the Kurgan culture stretching from the Ukraine south and east into Russia, Iran, Afghanistan and India, and also north and west into Poland, the Baltic, Germany, Switzerland, France, Spain, Britain etc.. The European migrations of all three types occurred at the end of the Ice Age. This group would include the early Celts whose locations were described by Greek and Roman historians as being in central Europe, based on the greater frequency of the type. R1a however does not show up on the chart for Ireland on the map for western Europe. Rather in addition to R1b type, there are also for Ireland smaller percentages of two later Neolithic groups, the first being a type of haplogroup I originating in the Middle East and travelling westward through northern and southern Europe and very common in Sardinia, and the second in smaller percentages being a type of haplogroup E3B which spread from East Africa west with the expansion of agriculture and is most common among the Berbers of North Africa and also in the Basque regions. Hope this helps. Michael O'Hearn --- Murph <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear David, > > I recently sent a post about DNA testing as some > others were discussing it and I am interested in > this area --- I did not see it go through as I only > get digests but your DNA seems DARN close to mine, > which I know does not seem like much as even family > treeDNA provides a list of exact matches and I > emailed the 4-5 people that I had an exact match > with (no reply yet) so I was wondering if you had > your done on FamilyTreeDNA and is anyone commenting > more on this -- someone, or rather two people seemed > very informed and I was hoping more discussion on > this issue and Irish roots would be forthcoming ! > > Murph > > [email protected] wrote: > Don't forget to add/check your surname to the > Irish-American Mailing List Surname Registry at: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/Today's > Topics: > > 1. DNA ([email protected]) > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 21:39:29 EST > Subject: [IRISH-AMER] DNA > > My DNA Haplogroup from Irish gggrandfather's line is > R1b1c7. Several mutation > steps back has an origin of Iran (Persia). My blood > type is O. As Jim wrote > on another list these results are consistent with > established migration patterns > > David Nicholson > > "Memory is the diary we all carry around with us" > Oscar Wilde > > To contact the IRISH-AMERICAN list administrator, > send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the IRISH-AMERICAN mailing > list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss an email again! > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail > arrives. Check it out. > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing > list Surname Registry at: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com

The Ireland GenWeb County Tipperary website has been updated. New pages have been added for the following civil parishes and for all the townlands in them: Donohill, Ballygriffin, Templebredon, Kilcornan, Clonpet, Terryglass and Carrick. Townland pages added - 83 Townland pages updated - 59 Total townland pages online - 990 New records, maps, surnames, links and resources have also been added. If you have any comments, additions and/or corrections in regard to this website, please email me off list. Also, if you have a surname listed on the site and your email address has change, send me the new one and I'll change it with the next update. If you would like to adopt a civil parish, email me and I'll let you know what is required. Need to know how to make webpages. You can find the site at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irltip/tipperary.htm -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA, website volunteer host http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Dear David, I recently sent a post about DNA testing as some others were discussing it and I am interested in this area --- I did not see it go through as I only get digests but your DNA seems DARN close to mine, which I know does not seem like much as even family treeDNA provides a list of exact matches and I emailed the 4-5 people that I had an exact match with (no reply yet) so I was wondering if you had your done on FamilyTreeDNA and is anyone commenting more on this -- someone, or rather two people seemed very informed and I was hoping more discussion on this issue and Irish roots would be forthcoming ! Murph [email protected] wrote: Don't forget to add/check your surname to the Irish-American Mailing List Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/Today's Topics: 1. DNA ([email protected]) From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 21:39:29 EST Subject: [IRISH-AMER] DNA My DNA Haplogroup from Irish gggrandfather's line is R1b1c7. Several mutation steps back has an origin of Iran (Persia). My blood type is O. As Jim wrote on another list these results are consistent with established migration patterns David Nicholson "Memory is the diary we all carry around with us" Oscar Wilde To contact the IRISH-AMERICAN list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the IRISH-AMERICAN mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. --------------------------------- Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Beth writes: <The discussion is very interesting and seems to have engaged many on the list and that is a good thing. The discussion is a wonderful opportunity to learn new things and to share new learning. But we all need to check out the information for validity and reliability.> I couldn't agree more, and I never fail to do research! I mention the media merely to indicate the "common knowledge" aspect of science. One should always question the "dramatic claims" and "bold headlines". To wit, I offer the following: From my personal life story, I was married to a man of Polish descent who had B- or B+ blood, I don't remember which, but his was a rare blood type, so much so, that he could have sold it for about $100 per pint. But he never donated it to a place that would pay for it... Also, I offer you the following information from the Red Cross Blood Donor site: http://chapters.redcross.org/br/northernohio/INFO/bloodtype.html (I notice that there is a big difference between the 40% population who have O+ blood, and the much smaller 7% of population who have O- blood.) Almost 40% of the population has O+ blood Patients with Type O blood must receive Type O blood About half of all blood ordered by hospitals in our area is Type O Type O blood is the universal blood type and is the only blood type that can be transfused to patients with other blood types Only about 7% of all people have Type O negative blood Type O negative blood is the preferred type for accident victims and babies needing exchange transfusions There is always a need for Type O donors because their blood may be transfused to a person of any blood type in an emergency Patricia

Murph writes: < I like most cannot spend the time learning DNA testing so it is nice to have someone who knows history AND the DNA to comment on this stuff and I urge you to continue, or perhaps you know of or have web sites where it is spelled out a bit more (without the jargon of scientists, unless absolutel necessary).> I'm not aware of a lot of sites, and don't know whether you can randomly access info at FamilyTree DNA (FTDNA), unless you 've been tested through them. Because my cousin was part of a "surname project" he received a "group discount" and took a 25 marker test, which I believe was only available within the "project". I'd suggest that you look for a "Murphy Surname DNA Project" With FTDNA, one can update at any time to a 37 or 67 marker test. The advice that FT gives, is for one to start with the least number of markers, and upgrade if your needs change. With the 25 marker test, our earliest common ancestor was traced to a European area, and we were provided with the latitude and longitude markers! Talk about precision! This ancestor was so far back that he was believe to be part of a community that didn't die out, while other communities within the same area did! However, from this info, we WERE NOT able to determine our Ireland location. Recently, my cousin had a match with 25 of his 25 marker test with a man who does NOT share our surname! This result, opens up the probability that our most recent common ancestor was within 3-13 generations. And fortunately for us, this other line descended from a man whose appearance in Ireland is well-documented. Both my cousin and his match have requested an upgrade to their markers from 25 to 37. Not only will this narrow down where in the "gene pool" our lines crossed, but it might put us into the town from which our GrGf migrated in 1830. Unfortunately, our relatives who came to the USA were illiterate, so we have no written family history. By the way, I'm not employed or otherwise associated with Family Tree, other than to have read through all their explanations for my cousin's test results. I found them easy to follow, though at times, a little too much to think about in one sitting. So, I kept coming back over the course of a week. Patricia

I think I mispoke, and used the wrong word. I see what you mean about "diluted." What I meant is that the Y-DNA gets mixed and traits are dropped, added, depending on the recessiveness or dominance of the trait. So that brings up another thing, that is that there is a difference in speaking about the dna that is used for genealogical matches, and the dna that transfers certain traits. I'm not all that up on what that difference is, but I know that they are different. Maybe someone can speak to that? And, I think it is important to say here, that dna testing is but one more tool for the genealogist. It is not the only one! It's just the most advanced technologically speaking. It is an important tool, in my opinion, for people who may be adopted, or for other reasons have no clue about their ethnicity. It adds icing to the cake for people who know their ethnicity and through dna can determine which sept, clan, haplogroup they belong to, even the common ancestor they share with someone else. It just depends on how much you want to know about your ancestry. For some, it's enough to know their immediate families, others want to know more, and for many it can become an obsession. To know where and who you came from is to know about yourself. There is a certain longing to belong, I think, that is inherent with being human. Even animals seek out others of their own kind. I think Irish descendants have this longing even more than other ethnicities. Wonder why that is? Is it something bred into our genes? Whoever the Irish are, wherever they got their genetic makeup from, they have produced a most beautiful culture. Peace Phyllis >Phyllis wrote: QUOTE: <It's true that Y-DNA is "diluted" after so many generations. But >depending on the number of markers tested and compared, it is still a >pretty good predictor of possible paternal ancestry. It can't "name" a >person as a male's paternal ancestor, it only shows who, in his >lineage, could have been a common ancestor to another person with the same >results as his.> > > I'm not sure, but this sounds to me like you're suggesting that the Y-DNA is fragile, whereas I thought that the mtDNA is the more fragile one. As it is, the whole Y-DNA sequence is not diluted...it is only certain markers within the sequence that are subject to "rapid" mutation. Scientists know which markers these are, and you can see this information within the Family Tree DNA site. > >

So ... have we established that mediterranean traits would not be uncommon among the Irish? That is what I'm asking about ... I don't want to start searching for a "mediterranean" ancestor that might exist before the Ice Age ... talk about brick walls!! or should I say, ice walls. :-P Thanks to everyone who has commented, contributed information. I understand the concepts behind dna to a certain extent, but on the individual level. What is most interesting and what I want to learn about is the concept of "corporate" dna, if you will, in other words, dna shared by large groups such as the Bolgii (Fir Bogs), the Berbers, and so on. What's the name of that book again, the Seven Daughters of Eve? and its author. Is it a good reference book, a compilation of research, or one man's opinion? I have the books "The Story of the Irish Race," by Seamus ManManus, and "Wars of the Irish Kings," by David McCoullough. I'm not updated on the best books to read for information, but would like to know. Wars of the Irish Kings is very interesting! it has me absorbed. Peace Phyllis

TREE Your skeletal form silhouetted against a mackerel sky. Bare twisted branches, gnarled witchlike fingers, pointing skywards, clawing outwards. Performing your dance macabre, to the music of the winter wind. A slanting morning sun, with Midas touch, gliding your gyrating limbs. At eventide, You were bedecked in coal black crows and aping Autumn, shed some feathered leaves. They looped, swooped, tumbled like leaves caught in a September squall. A blast of gunshot rent the air stripping you of your fluttering shroud, leaving your skeletal form, silhouetted against the evening sky. -- Barbara Diamond, "Leitrim Guardian"

My DNA Haplogroup from Irish gggrandfather's line is R1b1c7. Several mutation steps back has an origin of Iran (Persia). My blood type is O. As Jim wrote on another list these results are consistent with established migration patterns David Nicholson "Memory is the diary we all carry around with us" Oscar Wilde

Hi Murph, As you mentioned, Woulfe describes the Ó Murchadha of Sligo as a branch of the Uí Fhiachrach. Given their location, that would be a branch of the Uí Fhiachrach In Tuaiscirt (of the north) who are a branch of the Uí Fhiachrach (descendants of Fiachra, son of Brion Mughmheadhon) who are a branch of the Connachta of the Féni. Go to books like Gill's History of Ireland (Volumes I and II) and T.F. O'Rahilly's Early Irish History And Mythology for information about Irish tribes. Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghuí / Best, - Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Murph Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:24 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [IRISH-AMER] Ireland Surnames, county areas, and DNA Dear Jerry, Henry, All, I found your postings/threads about the characteristics of various groups in Ireland very interesting and I wonder if you would, might you comment on what you know of MURPHY surname in Connaught, particularly Sligo area. From what I have read (which may or may not be good information) on my surname chart, their were three main Murphy septs, and one was from the area of Sligo, going way way back ---and not related to the other Murphy's mainly in Wexford and other areas where the surname is common. In Sligo, where my ancestors are from, their are only 74 listings in Griffiths, and even fewer in the Sligo/Mayo border, with only three (3) known Murphy families, one being mine. I would like to know more of the history but it is hard to find -- anything that those more informed could comment would be appreciated. I recently had DNA 12 Y done and it came back R1b1, which again from what I have read is a large european Halpotype and does not do much to thin things down. I have been debating have more tests or mtDNA test, but if it will not help thin things down what is the use? I like most cannot spend the time learning DNA testing so it is nice to have someone who knows history AND the DNA to comment on this stuff and I urge you to continue, or perhaps you know of or have web sites where it is spelled out a bit more (without the jargon of scientists, unless absolutel necessary). Thanks, Murph ____________________________________________________ [email protected] wrote: Don't forget to add/check your surname to the Irish-American Mailing List Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/Today's Topics: 1. Re: Thin lips?....What is an Irishman/woman? (Elizabeth Tordella) 2. Re: Thin lips?....What is an Irishman/woman? (Michael O'Hearn) 3. Re: So what is an...... WHAT DO PEOPLE IN ROSCOMMON AND TYRONE LOOK LIKE? ([email protected]) 4. Re: DNA & Mediterranean Traits (Mary Pat) 5. Re: So what is an...... WHAT DO PEOPLE IN ROSCOMMON AND TYRONE LOOK LIKE? (MK Douglas) 6. Re: So What Is An Irishman, Anyway? (Michael O'Hearn) 7. Re: So What Is An Irishman... ARE THE FIR BOLG REAL? ([email protected]) From: "Elizabeth Tordella" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:28:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] Thin lips?....What is an Irishman/woman? This conversation would be helped if an hemotologist could weigh in. Many myths exist about heritage. I want scientific statements. Thanks Beth On 1/31/07, Michael O'Hearn wrote: > Exactly, Fran. But the location on the maternal line would go back > many, many generations. Bryan Sykes originally found seven distinct > groups in Europe with seven varying types of mtDNA. Today, if I am not > mistaken, the number has increased to nine. What the test will do is > tell you which group the ancestor --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Elizabeth, If you will check back to January's messages, you will find that in reply to your comment, I mentioned that in addition to the DNA evidence, there was also blood type evidence which had to do with a rare blood type common among the Irish and also among the Berbers of North Africa as cited in the book "The Course of Irish History" from the 1960's, which BTW is available new or used from Amazon.com and other dealers. Then in response to a question, I referred to a website which states that type O blood is common both among the Irish, Basques of Spain, and among the Berbers of North Africa, a scientific fact which to my knowledge is undisputed. It also makes reference to recent mtDNA studies which we were discussing. At that point, I did not think that type O was a rare type as it explicitly states in the website article that it is the most common type, at about 40-45%. Rather, since I had first read about the blood type comparison many years ago, I was only suggesting this as a possibility concerning the book reference which was also a TV documentary at the time. I wasn't making any statement as to the validity of the conclusions reached by the person who wrote the book about dieting on the website. Later, when someone made reference to a person who thought that type O blood was a rare type, I stated that I merely referred to the fact of type O blood being more prevalent relatively speaking among certain groups, and not to imply that it was a rare type. I then checked for other sources to determine whether there was in fact a rare blood type relatively common among certain groups, and then discovered that I had been right the first time, citing another website which again specifies another undisputed scientific fact, that blood type Rh-negative blood is indeed common, relatively speaking, among the Irish, Basques of Spain, and Berbers of North Africa. I am not saying that the conclusions reached by the authors of either article, or of the book for that matter, are correct. Each person may draw their own conclusions from scientific facts. Michael O'Hearn --- Elizabeth Tordella <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, Patricia > > Thank you so much for your very wonderful > elaboration of this topic. > I am aware that the media covers new scientific > discoveries, however, > my bent is science and I guess I need to have > directions to the > science community for explanations before I go to > the public media > world. > > There are many educational aspects being given light > thanks to the > media. But, I know too that the media has only a > limited amount of > space or time to expose new findings. And, I get > very concerned when a > diet is cited as a source of information, which was > done in this > stream. > > It is easy to get caught up in the heat of the > moment and grab onto > something that may be a partial truth or an outright > misrepresentation. My caution is to investigate > further items of > discussion here. The discussion is very interesting > and seems to have > engaged many on the list and that is a good thing. > The discussion is a > wonderful opportunity to learn new things and to > share new learning. > But we all need to check out the information for > validity and > reliability. > > Thanks so much. > > Beth > > > > On 2/2/07, Patricia <[email protected]> wrote: > > Beth states: <You are quite absolutely correct. > Geneticists do study the > > identifiable characteristics of genes. However, > well before geneticists came to be, hematologists > provided the same sort of information. For example, > in the 1970s I had a hematologist explain > > the sources of my blood group and its genotype. > While DNA examination has grown by leaps and bounds, > the story for me remains essentially the same. My > request is that I want to know the credentials of > persons supplying the information.> > > > > Beth, > > You are right in asking for credentials, but > there are many aspects of science that are rather > commonplace because of the media. Every genetic > "breakthrough" is highly publicized, so that one > would have to be a hermit not to know something of > the science of DNA. The basic concepts are not that > hard. > > > > And, it is true that the intricacies of blood > type go well beyond the TYPE. I understand that > even though one says they are type O, A, B, etc., > there's a "long line" of definition behind that > letter designation, which involve science that is > not for the faint of heart. > > > > I'm not a scientist, but never miss the show > Forensic Files, and I'm also remebering some things > from Biology, and what a nurse-friend of mine told > me. > > > > Forensic Files is a TV show that demonstrates > the solving of real crimes by real police and real > scientists. My cousin has also had his Y-DNA tested > to determine from where we came in Ireland, and I > have been the one to read through and explain his > results in layman's terms. (Note, my previous post.) > Not all of the science of DNA is beyond the scope of > a person motivated to understand it. There is no > statement that Michael makes that is incorrect, and > you may verify his knowledge through many web sites, > especially the Family Tree DNA site that he > suggested. > > > > Blood used to be the "gold standard" in > forensics, but it has been replaced by DNA. I > believe, if memory serves me, DNA carries the > instructions for the blood type. I also remember a > day when paternity was proven through blood type, > yet still was subject to dispute! > > > > Now DNA proves paternity to 99.9% accuracy! > Because one level of science replaces another in > certain things, doesn't mean the other is wrong, or > is of no use. A doctor would be way out of bounds > requesting a DNA test, when something can be shown > through blood work. It would be like using a chain > saw to trim a 1 foot bush! > > > > On a purely personal level, it doesn't matter to > a person who has a disease, where the disease > entered the genetic line...that doesn't currently > affect treatment...nor does it give the person with > the disease any comfort knowing that a mutation > occurred 100 years, or 1 million years ago! > > > > And none of this DNA info is meant to discount > the blood disorder being discussed, which was > correctly diagnosed through hematology. To me as a > layperson, it doesn't matter which came first, blood > tests or DNA research, but how they work together! > > > > Another fascinating aspect of all the DNA/genome > studies is the revelation that chimpanzees and > humans share 98% of their genetic makeups. I began > reading up on this, but the discussion goes into > "protein and enzyme reactions" and that is where I'm > over my head. This fascinating study is easily > found by searching "human and chimp genome studies" > on the Net, if anyone is interested in the research. > > > > Patricia > > > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American > mailing list Surname Registry at: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > > > > -- > Elizabeth W. Tordella, MS, RN > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing > list Surname Registry at: > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > Michael O'Hearn ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091

Hi, Patricia Thank you so much for your very wonderful elaboration of this topic. I am aware that the media covers new scientific discoveries, however, my bent is science and I guess I need to have directions to the science community for explanations before I go to the public media world. There are many educational aspects being given light thanks to the media. But, I know too that the media has only a limited amount of space or time to expose new findings. And, I get very concerned when a diet is cited as a source of information, which was done in this stream. It is easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and grab onto something that may be a partial truth or an outright misrepresentation. My caution is to investigate further items of discussion here. The discussion is very interesting and seems to have engaged many on the list and that is a good thing. The discussion is a wonderful opportunity to learn new things and to share new learning. But we all need to check out the information for validity and reliability. Thanks so much. Beth On 2/2/07, Patricia <[email protected]> wrote: > Beth states: <You are quite absolutely correct. Geneticists do study the > identifiable characteristics of genes. However, well before geneticists came to be, hematologists provided the same sort of information. For example, in the 1970s I had a hematologist explain > the sources of my blood group and its genotype. While DNA examination has grown by leaps and bounds, the story for me remains essentially the same. My request is that I want to know the credentials of persons supplying the information.> > > Beth, > You are right in asking for credentials, but there are many aspects of science that are rather commonplace because of the media. Every genetic "breakthrough" is highly publicized, so that one would have to be a hermit not to know something of the science of DNA. The basic concepts are not that hard. > > And, it is true that the intricacies of blood type go well beyond the TYPE. I understand that even though one says they are type O, A, B, etc., there's a "long line" of definition behind that letter designation, which involve science that is not for the faint of heart. > > I'm not a scientist, but never miss the show Forensic Files, and I'm also remebering some things from Biology, and what a nurse-friend of mine told me. > > Forensic Files is a TV show that demonstrates the solving of real crimes by real police and real scientists. My cousin has also had his Y-DNA tested to determine from where we came in Ireland, and I have been the one to read through and explain his results in layman's terms. (Note, my previous post.) Not all of the science of DNA is beyond the scope of a person motivated to understand it. There is no statement that Michael makes that is incorrect, and you may verify his knowledge through many web sites, especially the Family Tree DNA site that he suggested. > > Blood used to be the "gold standard" in forensics, but it has been replaced by DNA. I believe, if memory serves me, DNA carries the instructions for the blood type. I also remember a day when paternity was proven through blood type, yet still was subject to dispute! > > Now DNA proves paternity to 99.9% accuracy! Because one level of science replaces another in certain things, doesn't mean the other is wrong, or is of no use. A doctor would be way out of bounds requesting a DNA test, when something can be shown through blood work. It would be like using a chain saw to trim a 1 foot bush! > > On a purely personal level, it doesn't matter to a person who has a disease, where the disease entered the genetic line...that doesn't currently affect treatment...nor does it give the person with the disease any comfort knowing that a mutation occurred 100 years, or 1 million years ago! > > And none of this DNA info is meant to discount the blood disorder being discussed, which was correctly diagnosed through hematology. To me as a layperson, it doesn't matter which came first, blood tests or DNA research, but how they work together! > > Another fascinating aspect of all the DNA/genome studies is the revelation that chimpanzees and humans share 98% of their genetic makeups. I began reading up on this, but the discussion goes into "protein and enzyme reactions" and that is where I'm over my head. This fascinating study is easily found by searching "human and chimp genome studies" on the Net, if anyone is interested in the research. > > Patricia > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Elizabeth W. Tordella, MS, RN

SNIPPET: The Irish were heavily represented in mining for most of the 19th century. As with so many other occupations which they dominated, mining was appealing because it required few prerequisite skills, besides strength and bravery. Thousands of Irish joined the national frenzy when gold was discovered in CA in 1848, leaving eastern cities aboard ships headed for San Francisco. Still more joined the rush for silver and gold in British Columbia, NV, and CO in the 1850s and 1860s, and on to the Klondike in the 1890s. Among the latter was one Michael MacGOWAN who wrote a wonderful memoir of his adventures in Irish entitled "Rotha Mor an tSaoil" (The Hard Road to Klondike). Another notable personality from the mining camps out west was Nellie CASHMAN. Born Ellen O'KISSANE in Ireland, her work as a nurse and cook in mining camps from Tombstone to the Yukon earned her the nickname "angel of the mines." While most labored as employees of large mining companies, a few notables struck it rich, most notably the so-called Irish Four who made millions mining the Comstock Lode. Gold, and later silver and copper strikes in MT, also drew many Irish, including Cavan-born Marcus DALY whose Anaconda Copper Mine made him one of the richest men in America. Similarly, William H. BROPHY struck it rich in the silver mines of AZ, Thomas KEARNS in those of UT. Other Irishmen headed for the mining districts and made their fortunes selling food, tents, tools, and clothing to eager miners. Peter DONAHUE arrived in San Francisco during the rush and tried his hand at panning for gold but soon opened a blacksmith shop. It later developed into the massive Union Iron Works. Irish Mormon Sam BRANNAN arrived several years before the gold rush and established a dry-goods store. At the peak of the gold rush fever in 1849-50, he pulled in more than $100,000 a month! San Francisco real estate tyc! oon Patrick PHELAN made his initial fortune selling goods to miners. Far less glamorous, but arguably more important to America's industrial development, was the huge coal mining industry. Here, too, the Irish played a significant role, both as miners and occasionally as mine owners. In PA's anthracite region thousands of Irish miners toiled for meager wages in dangerous conditions. One of the wealthiest mine owners was Franklin GOWAN, President of the Philadelphia & Reading RR and the man who eventually saw to it that 20 Irishmen were hanged for their alleged role in violence and murder linked to the Molly Maguires. One area of particularly bitter conflict was the coal-mining region of PA. It was there in the 1860s that Irish miners formed a union called the Workingmen's Benevolent Association (WBA) to resist the abusive labor policies of mine bosses and the Philadelphia & Reading RR, headed, interestingly, by Irishman Franklin GOWAN. Some of its members also formed a clandestine labor organization known as the Molly Maguires that employed intimidation, vandalism, violence, and murder. In 1874 GOWAN set out to destroy the WBA by linking it with the Mollies. Within a year, his stoking of anti-Molly sentiment resulted in more than fifty arrests and many convictions. In all, 20 alleged Molly Maguires were hanged for murder, including ten on a single day, June 21, 1877. Given the fact that many were convicted on specious evidence, it was clear that they were executed not simply for their alleged role in the murders, but also because they were opponents of big business and Irish. Excerpt, "1001 Things Everyone Should Know About the Irish American History," E. T. O'Donnell (2002).

Beth states: <You are quite absolutely correct. Geneticists do study the identifiable characteristics of genes. However, well before geneticists came to be, hematologists provided the same sort of information. For example, in the 1970s I had a hematologist explain the sources of my blood group and its genotype. While DNA examination has grown by leaps and bounds, the story for me remains essentially the same. My request is that I want to know the credentials of persons supplying the information.> Beth, You are right in asking for credentials, but there are many aspects of science that are rather commonplace because of the media. Every genetic "breakthrough" is highly publicized, so that one would have to be a hermit not to know something of the science of DNA. The basic concepts are not that hard. And, it is true that the intricacies of blood type go well beyond the TYPE. I understand that even though one says they are type O, A, B, etc., there's a "long line" of definition behind that letter designation, which involve science that is not for the faint of heart. I'm not a scientist, but never miss the show Forensic Files, and I'm also remebering some things from Biology, and what a nurse-friend of mine told me. Forensic Files is a TV show that demonstrates the solving of real crimes by real police and real scientists. My cousin has also had his Y-DNA tested to determine from where we came in Ireland, and I have been the one to read through and explain his results in layman's terms. (Note, my previous post.) Not all of the science of DNA is beyond the scope of a person motivated to understand it. There is no statement that Michael makes that is incorrect, and you may verify his knowledge through many web sites, especially the Family Tree DNA site that he suggested. Blood used to be the "gold standard" in forensics, but it has been replaced by DNA. I believe, if memory serves me, DNA carries the instructions for the blood type. I also remember a day when paternity was proven through blood type, yet still was subject to dispute! Now DNA proves paternity to 99.9% accuracy! Because one level of science replaces another in certain things, doesn't mean the other is wrong, or is of no use. A doctor would be way out of bounds requesting a DNA test, when something can be shown through blood work. It would be like using a chain saw to trim a 1 foot bush! On a purely personal level, it doesn't matter to a person who has a disease, where the disease entered the genetic line...that doesn't currently affect treatment...nor does it give the person with the disease any comfort knowing that a mutation occurred 100 years, or 1 million years ago! And none of this DNA info is meant to discount the blood disorder being discussed, which was correctly diagnosed through hematology. To me as a layperson, it doesn't matter which came first, blood tests or DNA research, but how they work together! Another fascinating aspect of all the DNA/genome studies is the revelation that chimpanzees and humans share 98% of their genetic makeups. I began reading up on this, but the discussion goes into "protein and enzyme reactions" and that is where I'm over my head. This fascinating study is easily found by searching "human and chimp genome studies" on the Net, if anyone is interested in the research. Patricia