Remember, when replying to the list, delete most of the email that you are replying to, and just keep the pertinent part of the message, if needed. If you are replying from the digest form of the message, not only is it important to delete most of the digest, but to also change the subject to reflect your message. Thanks for your cooperation. -- Pat Connors, visiting Port Charlotte FL, list admin http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Linda Hess - Two of my great-grandparents, both born in Ireland, had middle names. One was ANN JANE and known as ANN. The other one, her husband, was JOHN ROBINSON DAVIS. ROBINSON was his mother's maiden name................Virginia <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

All of these explanations have helped me come to the conclusion that my great-great grandfather probably was married to two women with the last name McAtee. There was one wife named Marie E. and one named Mary Helen. I wondered for years about whether her name was Mary or Marie and why the different middle names. I was able to find one marriage license but not the other and couldn't decide if there was one wife or two because dates I found in various records were very close. So I think he married one sister and then the second sister. Maybe the first one died and then he married the second one. I'm still going to keep searching for the actual birth, marriage, and death records to confirm whether or not there were two wives and have conclusive evidence. [email protected] wrote: Linda Hess - Two of my great-grandparents, both born in Ireland, had middle names. One was ANN JANE and known as ANN. The other one, her husband, was JOHN ROBINSON DAVIS. ROBINSON was his mother's maiden name................Virginia ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

What a wonderful endorsement. This is heart rendering. Thank you so much for this. I am gainfully encouraged. Beth On 3/8/07, Jean R. <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Cathy, What are the dates, locations of the entries you found? Ireland? > Consider that you may have data for a couple different families given the > repetition of surnames and given names. Perhaps a child was born to > Timothy's widow who had subsequently remarried? (It wasn't unusual for a > widow to have remarried her late husband's brother, etc.) > > Your local LDS (Mormon) Family History Center has access to many original > church (and other) records on microfilm and microfiche that anyone can take > a look at. If a particular record isn't found on site, they will send for > it for you from their centralized record repository. They may also have > additional data on particular IGI entries in their computerized records -- > i.e., a particular town, rather than a registration district, etc. Since I > don't have a paid subscription to Ancestry.com, I have chosen to go in to my > local FHC (as a non-Mormon) to work on genealogy. > > When I found entries of interest on an IGI index of births and christenings > in Co. Leitrim (and I had heard that the family had roots in Drumshanbo > area), I visited my local LDS (Mormon) Family History Center library. > Volunteers were able to obtain for me from Salt Lake City in a few days (and > for a rental fee of less than four dollars) a microfilm with ORIGINAL church > records for several Leitrim churches including the one I was most interested > in. They helped determine what I needed, did the paperwork, called me when > the microfilm came in - helped me get the microfilm in and out of the > reader - assisted me in any way that they could. I had goosebumps as I > gazed on the handwritten pages of the original (somewhat tattered) little > black church record book for St. Pat's chapel in Drumshanbo. Names of > children along with parents' names were written in Latin in chronological > order that included the names of two witnesses to the circa mid-1860s > events -- apparently related family members as most had the same surnames as > the bride and groom. There were odd notations in the margins including > references to particular towns. One page was an alphabetical index for > children born to particular couples. While scrolling through the various > church records on the entire microfilm I saw that some were more legible > that others depending on the handwriting of the person recording the > original entries. With the help of a LDS volunteer, I was able to photocopy > pages directly from the microfilm for a small charge, take them with me to > examine more closely at home at my leisure. The LDS FHCs have readers with > magnifying features and also magnifying glasses you can use on request. > They have a library of reference books including a key to Latin names. I > have spent many pleasant hours there in the past. Jean > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cathy Connelly" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:47 PM > Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] NAME VERSIONS > > > >I also have a question about names. One of my ancestors is shown on all > > census forms as Timothy, his wife on land records as widow of Timothy, but > > on one child's death record , father's name is shown as Patrick. Any > > thoughts on which would have been the "first" name? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Linda Hess" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] NAME VERSIONS > > > > <snip> > > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Elizabeth W. Tordella, MS, RN

Hi list, I have a data base that containe hundreds of births (Irish Catholic parentage, and a few French) and deaths for the 1840's forward and I have looked at this to make some generalizations. In the 1840s and into the 1850s it was rare to see a middle name given to a male child. (Females had names like Mary Ann, Mary Elizabeth, but the majority of them did not have a middle name listed.) The exceptions to the rule of no-middle-name for boys thru the 1850s were children whose father was something other than a "laborer." Carpenters, Blacksmiths and the like were much more likely to list a middle name for their male children. By 1860 it was more common to see newborn boys with middle names. It seems that the "better class" of Irishmen were using middle names befor it became common. Early French and German immigrants seem to have used middle names right along. John <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Pat, would your book have anything to say about the name, or "nicknames" > for, Simon? Sorry, I can't do this while in Florida. I get home the last week of March so if you post this again the first week of April, I'll do the lookup when I get home where all my books are. .............................................................................. ... Thank you, Pat, and hope you are having a good respite in Florida. (May reach -25 here in areas of upstate NY tonight. Should qualify as a 3 dog night.) Sheila <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Thanks for all the answers to the question I posed about middle names. This has been very interesting. I hope to read more answers to see what others have to say. Linda [email protected] wrote: Hi list, I have a data base that containe hundreds of births (Irish Catholic parentage, and a few French) and deaths for the 1840's forward and I have looked at this to make some generalizations. In the 1840s and into the 1850s it was rare to see a middle name given to a male child. (Females had names like Mary Ann, Mary Elizabeth, but the majority of them did not have a middle name listed.) The exceptions to the rule of no-middle-name for boys thru the 1850s were children whose father was something other than a "laborer." Carpenters, Blacksmiths and the like were much more likely to list a middle name for their male children. By 1860 it was more common to see newborn boys with middle names. It seems that the "better class" of Irishmen were using middle names befor it became common. Early French and German immigrants seem to have used middle names right along. John ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

Thanks Jean. Actually, my Timothy had 3 wives named Ellen! 10 children. (One child by each of the first two)But the last one bore his last 8 children, and the one whose D.C. says Patrick is child # 3. Child # 6 D.C.says Timothy. Both give 3rd Ellen as mother. Trying to find D.C. for some of the others. Baptism records for both these children say Timothy, by the way. Trying to figure if his birth record should say Patrick or Timothy, can find no record of his Irish birth , nor of any marriage! Cathy----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean R." <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] NAME VERSIONS - Researching Original Records > Hi Cathy, What are the dates, locations of the entries you found? > Ireland? > Consider that you may have data for a couple different families given the > repetition of surnames and given names. Perhaps a child was born to > Timothy's widow who had subsequently remarried? (It wasn't unusual for a > widow to have remarried her late husband's brother, etc.) > > Your local LDS (Mormon) Family History Center has access to many original > church (and other) records on microfilm and microfiche that anyone can > take > a look at. If a particular record isn't found on site, they will send for > it for you from their centralized record repository. They may also have > additional data on particular IGI entries in their computerized records -- > i.e., a particular town, rather than a registration district, etc. Since > I > don't have a paid subscription to Ancestry.com, I have chosen to go in to > my > local FHC (as a non-Mormon) to work on genealogy. > > When I found entries of interest on an IGI index of births and > christenings > in Co. Leitrim (and I had heard that the family had roots in Drumshanbo > area), I visited my local LDS (Mormon) Family History Center library. > Volunteers were able to obtain for me from Salt Lake City in a few days > (and > for a rental fee of less than four dollars) a microfilm with ORIGINAL > church > records for several Leitrim churches including the one I was most > interested > in. They helped determine what I needed, did the paperwork, called me > when > the microfilm came in - helped me get the microfilm in and out of the > reader - assisted me in any way that they could. I had goosebumps as I > gazed on the handwritten pages of the original (somewhat tattered) little > black church record book for St. Pat's chapel in Drumshanbo. Names of > children along with parents' names were written in Latin in chronological > order that included the names of two witnesses to the circa mid-1860s > events -- apparently related family members as most had the same surnames > as > the bride and groom. There were odd notations in the margins including > references to particular towns. One page was an alphabetical index for > children born to particular couples. While scrolling through the various > church records on the entire microfilm I saw that some were more legible > that others depending on the handwriting of the person recording the > original entries. With the help of a LDS volunteer, I was able to > photocopy > pages directly from the microfilm for a small charge, take them with me to > examine more closely at home at my leisure. The LDS FHCs have readers > with > magnifying features and also magnifying glasses you can use on request. > They have a library of reference books including a key to Latin names. I > have spent many pleasant hours there in the past. Jean > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cathy Connelly" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:47 PM > Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] NAME VERSIONS > > >>I also have a question about names. One of my ancestors is shown on all >> census forms as Timothy, his wife on land records as widow of Timothy, >> but >> on one child's death record , father's name is shown as Patrick. Any >> thoughts on which would have been the "first" name? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Linda Hess" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] NAME VERSIONS >> >> <snip> > > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry > at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tip: Save time by hitting the return key instead of clicking on "search" Calender of Events sponsored by The *Palm Beach* Post<http://www.palmbeachpost.com/events/content/info/events.html> *Palm Beach* Fashion Week, March 2-9, Throughout *Palm Beach County* *...*City of Port *St*. Lucie *St*. *Patrick's Day Festival*, March 17, Lyngate Park *...* www.*palm**beach*po*st*.com/events/content/info/events.html - 48k - Cached<http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:s9rEzgz3FzYJ:www.palmbeachpost.com/events/content/info/events.html+Palm+Beach+County%2Bst+patrick%27s+day+festival&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1>- Similar pages<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=related:www.palmbeachpost.com/events/content/info/events.html> Community news roundup for *Palm Beach County*: South Florida Sun *...*<http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flbriefsp0301mar01,0,5609899.story?page=2&coll=sfl-news-palmcomm> Seniors in *Palm Beach County* can attend a health fair from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. *...*Delray *Beach St*. Vincent school moves up its *St*. *Patrick's Day festival* *...* www.sun-sentinel.com/.../*palm**beach*/sfl-flbriefsp0301mar01,0,5609899.*st* ory?page=2&coll=sfl-news-*palm*comm - 36k - Cached<http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:ag2zKbgV4C0J:www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flbriefsp0301mar01,0,5609899.story%3Fpage%3D2%26coll%3Dsfl-news-palmcomm+Palm+Beach+County%2Bst+patrick%27s+day+festival&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2>- Similar pages<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=related:www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flbriefsp0301mar01,0,5609899.story%3Fpage%3D2%26coll%3Dsfl-news-palmcomm> *Palm Beach County* Events<http://www.palmbeachfl.com/visitors/events/events.aspx> Events taking place in *Palm Beach County* Florida. *...* 1111 North Congress Avenue; West *Palm Beach*, FL 33409 *St*. *Patrick's Day* Preview Party featuring the *...* www.*palm**beach*fl.com/visitors/events/events.aspx - 109k - Cached<http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:XkWGdouN5CQJ:www.palmbeachfl.com/visitors/events/events.aspx+Palm+Beach+County%2Bst+patrick%27s+day+festival&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3>- Similar pages<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=related:www.palmbeachfl.com/visitors/events/events.aspx> On 3/8/07, Pat Connors <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 3/8/07, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi Pat, Where In Florida, and where will you celebrate ST Pat's Day. I > > have > > friends visiting form Carlow, and we are in Palm Beach County > > > > I am in Port Charlotte, FL and don't know where we will go, I just got > here > last night and we haven't discussed it yet. > > -- > Pat Connors, visiting Port Charlotte FL > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry > at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I, too hadf the Mary problem. My Great grandmother is named as Mary in her son's death certificate, but I never found her except as Bridget. It gave me a lot of trouble. One of her sons was remembered by my uncle as Laurence, so I searched all across the country for Laurence and variations, but couldn't find him. When I finally tracked him down, from photographers' names and locations on family pictures, followed by church records, he was Patrick Laurence and was called P.L.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! His daughter, baptized Mary Ellen, by her teens had become Blanche (A denial of her Irish heritage or a fad?). Ah, yes Irish names. We could write a book! MFR <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

The Irish Ancestral Research Association (TIARA) and The Irish Cultural Centre of New England Are Pleased to Present a One-Day Seminar on Both US and Irish Research Saturday, March 31, 2007 The Irish Cultural Centre of New England, Canton, Massachusetts ================================================================ Who Are You Really? Learn How to Put the Pieces Together and Discover Your Family History! The program includes: GETTING STARTED VITAL RECORDS BIRTH, MARRIAGE, DEATH US CENSUS GRIFFITH'S VALUATION PASSENGER LISTS, NATURALIZATIONS ADMINISTRATIVE DISTRICTS PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER RESEARCH OPPORTUNITIES IN THE ICC LIBRARY For more information, you can dial in to a teleconference session Sunday March 11 at 8PM http://ancestralmanor.com/?tabid=104 and visit the TIARA conference site http://tiara.ie/ICCTIARAconf.html

In my husband's family, one of the listings has all the daughters' names preceded by M. I was told that all the daughters were named Mary (whatever) with a middle name that they went by. This was in Switzerland. Is this a custom that others have found also? Lorraine Leslie Besmer

My mom's name was Mary Eileen. She was named after Mary first because as older members of the family said,"Call her Mary and she will never be lost.". No one ever called her Mary; she was ALWAYS called Eileen. It wasn't until she got a passport in her 50s that she was shown as Mary Eileen. When she applied for Social Security and Medicare, she applied as "Mary Eileen". After this, she applied for a checking account as Mary (no middle name or initial) since many institutions got fussier about the name being shown as the official records showed. I was told this was common for girls whose first names were Mary. Maureen N <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

I would agree that they used the middle name more My grandfather was T (Thomas) Emmett Newman. Barbara Newman Finizia born in RI now in Palm Beach GardensFL Family Archivist Searching ~Newman, McConnell, Cahir, Dunlevy, Feeney, McDonagh,Crosby~ _http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=genediger2_ (http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=genediger2) <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Hi Pat, Where In Florida, and where will you celebrate ST Pat's Day. I have friends visiting form Carlow, and we are in Palm Beach County Kathleen Tynan <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

On 7 Mar 2007 at 19:47, Cathy Connelly wrote: > One of my ancestors is shown on all > census forms as Timothy, his wife on land records as widow of Timothy, but > on one child's death record , father's name is shown as Patrick. Perhaps the postman was named Patrick? -- Always Remember! http://www.remember-9-11.com http://www.ciarancummings.com

On 3/8/07, Pat Connors <[email protected]> wrote: > > This is from the Irish Heritage Newsletter, but now the way I heard > about the history of corned beef & cabbage that I always heard. > > Oops! Should have said, 'NOT' the version of history I have always heard. -- Pat Connors, visiting Port Charlotte FL http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

My experience with Irish names is that they will often name a child with first and middle name and then use the middle name. I.e. George Robert was called Bobby by his family; Joseph William was called Billy. I have seen this many times in many families. Irene ----- Original Message ----- From: Cathy Connelly<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] NAME VERSIONS I also have a question about names. One of my ancestors is shown on all census forms as Timothy, his wife on land records as widow of Timothy, but on one child's death record , father's name is shown as Patrick. Any thoughts on which would have been the "first" name? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Hess" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] NAME VERSIONS >I have another question about Irish naming patterns that is a bit >different. I have read about the typical naming patterns for boys vs >girls, and have read comments that there may be some variations to the >pattern in different areas of Ireland. But my question is about the use of >middle names. I see Irish families on Census records where there is a 1st >and last name for the parents who were born in Ireland and moved to the US, >but then start to see 1st and middle names for some of their children born >in the US, though usually no middle names for the first child or two. Did >people born in Ireland have middle names or was that something that started >in the US? Just wondering if anyone knows about that. > > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote: On the subject of names: A certain SIMON > REYNOLDS has proven fairly elusive > and I have wondered for the last four years whether or not he might > actually > have been named something else and just called Simon. > > Pat, would your book have anything to say about the name, or "nicknames" > for, Simon? > > He would have been born about 1820, probably in the east of County > Galway, > and was Catholic. > > Thank you, > Sheila > > > > ************************************** > AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com<http://www.aol.com/>. > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry > at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/<http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --------------------------------- > Finding fabulous fares is fun. > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and > hotel bargains. > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry > at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/<http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ====Irish American Mailing List===== Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/<http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 3/8/07, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Pat, Where In Florida, and where will you celebrate ST Pat's Day. I > have > friends visiting form Carlow, and we are in Palm Beach County > I am in Port Charlotte, FL and don't know where we will go, I just got here last night and we haven't discussed it yet. -- Pat Connors, visiting Port Charlotte FL http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Interesting coincidence - my mother also was Mary Eileen, and known only as Eileen. And, she had the same kind of legal questions later in life. She had her name legally changed to Eileen Mary at that time, since it was easier than retaining Mary Eileen. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [IRISH-AMER] NAME VERSIONS > My mom's name was Mary Eileen. She was named after Mary first because as > older members of the family said,"Call her Mary and she will never be > lost.". > No one ever called her Mary; she was ALWAYS called Eileen. > > It wasn't until she got a passport in her 50s that she was shown as Mary > Eileen. When she applied for Social Security and Medicare, she applied as > "Mary > Eileen". After this, she applied for a checking account as Mary (no > middle > name or initial) since many institutions got fussier about the name > being > shown as the official records showed. > > I was told this was common for girls whose first names were Mary. > > Maureen N > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > > ====Irish American Mailing List===== > Add/check your surname to the Irish-American mailing list Surname Registry > at: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/IrishAmerican/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message