Let's not forget, too, that the Quakers, after the first potato failure, tried to educate and convince the native Irish to switch to other crops, but they were so entrenched in growing potatoes that they could not, would not, change their dependence on the it. Not wishing to interject religion here, it is a glittering generality to state, as one lister wrote, that Catholics suffered more than Protestants during the famine, in light of the fact that I read somewhere that the majority of people in the U.S.A with "Irish" names happen to be Protestant. By extension would not this lead one to assume that many Protestants left as a result of the famine? On a more personal note, a little Anglican church near where my girlfriend lives in Cullybackey, Co. Antrim, has graves of a whole family, the father who was the parish priest, his wife and all their children, who perished from starvation as a result of the famine. We have to be very careful in saying that one religious group suffered more than the other. No doubt the Catholics outnumbered the Protestants and this is the reason why their numbers seem to be higher, and not because they were being singled out to be starved more than those of the opposite persuasion. I can't recall the author or title of the book I read many years ago in which of the Quaker efforts were "treated" to try to assuage the horrors of the famine, but the Google article will further shed some light on the times. Please note: the Quakers offered their help to all. Trevelyan is the "baddie" in this whole scheme of things, and not necessarily Queen Victoria, as some "researchers" state. The Highland Clearances (Scottish Gaelic: Fuadaich nan Gàidheal, the expulsion of the Gael), not on the scale of the Irish Famine of the 1840s period, have their "baddies," too, namely the Duke (English) and Countess of Sutherland (Scottish) and their factor Peter Sellar (Scottish) who was acquitted of homicide. "While the collapse of the clan system can be attributed more to economic factors and the repression that followed the Battle of Culloden, the widespread evictions resulting from the Clearances severely affected the viability of the Highland population and culture. To this day, the population in the Scottish Highlands is sparse and the culture is diluted, and there are many more sheep than people. Although the 1901 census did return 230,806 Gaelic speakers in Scotland, today this number has fallen to below 60,000. Counties of Scotland in which over 50% of the population spoke Gaelic as their native language in 1901, included Sutherland (71.75%), Ross and Cromarty (71.76%), Inverness (64.85%) and Argyll (54.35%). Small but substantial percentages of Gaelic speakers were recorded in counties such as Nairn, Bute, Perth and Caithness. What the Clearances started, however, the First World War almost completed. A huge percentage of Scots were among the vast numbers killed, and this greatly affected the remaining population of Gaelic speakers in Scotland. The 1921 census, the first conducted after the end of the war, showed a significant decrease in the proportion of the population that spoke Gaelic. The percentage of Gaelic speakers in Argyll had fallen to well below 50% (34.56%), and the other counties mentioned above had experienced similar decreases. Sutherland's Gaelic-speaking population was now barely above 50%, while Inverness and Ross and Cromarty had fallen to 50.91% and 60.20%, respectively. However, the Clearances did result in significant emigration of Highlanders to North America and Australasia - where today are found considerably more descendants of Highlanders than in Scotland itself. One estimate for Cape Breton, Nova Scotia has 25,000 Gaelic-speaking Scots arriving as immigrants between 1775 and 1850. At the beginning of the twentieth century, there were an estimated 100,000 Gaelic speakers in Cape Breton, but because of economic migration to English-speaking areas and the lack of Gaelic education in the Nova Scotian school system, the numbers of Gaelic speakers fell dramatically. By the beginning of the 21st century, the number of native Gaelic speakers had fallen to well below 1,000.[4]" Private Relief Efforts During the Irish Famine "The Society of Friends, or Quakers, first became involved with the Irish Famine in November, 1846, when some Dublin-based members formed a Central Relief Committee. They intended that their assistance supplement other relief. However, the relief provided by the Quakers proved crucial in keeping people alive when other relief systems failed. A number of Quakers were critical of government relief policies, holding them to be inadequate and misjudged. The Quakers donated food, mostly American flour, rice, biscuits, and Indian meal along with clothes and bedding. They set up soup kitchens, purchased seed, and provided funds for local employment. During 1846-1847, the Quakers gave approximately 200,000 Pounds for relief in Ireland. The British Relief Association was founded in 1847, and raised money in England, America and Australia. They benefited from a "Queen's Letter" from Victoria appealing for money to relieve the distress in Ireland. The total raised was 171,533 Pounds. A second "Queen's Letter" in October of 1847, reflected a hardening in British public opinion, as it raised hardly any additional funds. In total, the British Relief Association raised approximately 470,000 Pounds. In August, 1847, when the Association had a balance of 200,000 Pounds, their agent in Ireland, Polish Count Strzelecki, proposed that the money be spent to help schoolchildren in the west of Ireland. The British Treasury Secretary, Charles Edward Trevelyan, warned against it, fearing "it might produce the impression that the lavish charitable system of last season was intended to be renewed." Strzelecki proved adamant and Treyelan conceded that a small portion of the funds could be used for that purpose. Donations for the Irish Famine came from distant and unexpected sources. Calcutta, India sent 16,500 Pounds in 1847, Bombay another 3,000. Florence, Italy, Antigua, France, Jamaica, and Barbados sent contributions. The Choctaw tribe in North America sent $710. Many major cities in America set up Relief Committees for Ireland, and Jewish synagogues in America and Britain contributed generously." -------------------------- Last of all: The main difference between the Scots and the Irish seems to be that the Scots (a more pragmatic race?) just seem to "get on with it" and do not dwell so much on the past. Yes, if we do not pay attention to the past we tend to repeat it (Edmind Burke, to paraphrase), but it is unhealthy for any nation to constantly hark back on events instead of looking forward to making sure that similar events do not recur. My opinion! Maisie ---------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1) Historically true. Potatoes were the only crops that failed. Corn, wheat and other crops did not fail and there was plenty of food there. It may or may not be true that the Irish farmers sold their produce to England while their countrymen/women/children, were starving. > -------------------------------------------- 2) What it doesnt say is - most of the food subsidies went to the Protestants (which were mainly powerful English families and Scots) and the Catholics were left to starve. ------------------------------------------- Original Message From: "Jean R." jeanrice@cet.com >> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:29 PM >> Subject: [Irish Genealogy] Great Famine: British Government 1845-46 - >> PrimeMinister Robert PEEL's Response - Corn Laws SNIPPET: "Scenes of starvation were commonplace in Ireland by the end of >> > 1846, but they had been a year in the making. Actual starvation had been >> > averted at first, when the British government under Prime Minister Robert >> > PEEL moved aggressively to counter the potato famine in 1845. PEEL was an >> > old hand on matters Irish; he had been the government's chief secretary in >> > Ireland, which meant that he was responsible for implementing government >> > policy on the island. One of those policies was the introduction of a >> > police force to keep watch over the rebellious Irish, and so even today it >> > is not unusual to hear the police referred to as "peelers." PEEL had >> > received an early warning of the potential disaster in Ireland when >> > potatoes >> > on the Continent and in England failed several times before the blight was >> > detected in Ireland. While the potato was notoriously fickle, any report >> > of >> > its failure was bound to be greeted with apprehension, for even in >> > England, >> > the poor depended on the potato as a twice-a-day staple. In Ireland, the >> > poor had nothing else, as everyone from prime minister to farm laborer >> > knew. etcetera ----------------------------------------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Much has been written in the last few days about the Irish Famine. I have not noted too many specific references in these conversations. A must read is "The Great Hunger" by Cecil Woodham Smith, an English scholar and student of the famine. I found it objective and in my opinion, unbiased. One point she emphasizes is that other crops grown by the Irish Catholic TENENT farmers, were used to pay rent to the landlords for their farms. This explains the export of food from a starving nation. In one of her final conclusions, she essentially accuses England of genocide. Another read that is not so available except on line, is the State of New Jersey Commission on Holocaust Education which includes the Irish Famine Commission. www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/irish_pf.html This study is extremely detailed and most helpful. With respect to the early Irish settlers in the American colonies, they were for the most part, Scots-Irish Presbyterians from Ulster who were equally discriminated under the penal laws because of their Religion. They did not have the same ties to the land that the native Irish had so they left for America, settling primarily in the south east.

Dear Maisie There are several excellent sources that tell the facts of the Great Famine. Just two among many are: The Great Hunger by Cecil Woodham-Smith This Great Calamity The Irish Famine 1845-52 by Christine Kinealy Irish Famine by Peter Gray (has a lot of statistics) - this can be accessed through the website listed below. An excellent website is: http://adminstaff.vassar.edu/sttaylor/FAMINE/ILN/ This website has copies of the Illustrated London News, articles from the time of the Famine.It also has links to another book about the Famine and many more excellent sources from the time of the Famine. Sir Walter Raleigh brought the potato to Ireland. One of the reasons it became popular was it produced large volumes in a small are and it was cheap. During the Great Famine it is a common fact that other food sources, among them corn and grain were stored in warehouses by the landlords for shippment for export. Soldiers stood guard at these warehouses to prevent the starving Irish from taking the much needed food. To clarify the religious question you mentioned - the majority of those of the Protestant faith resided in Counties Armagh Antrim, Down,Tyrone and Derry. These counties were the least impacted by the Famine, so there was not the necessity to flee Ireland to the same degree as in the rest of Ireland to avoid starvation. Although disease claimed the lives of many in County Down, County Down was still one of the counties least affected in Ireland by the Great Famine. I don't want to diminish the suffering in these counties because it was horrific for those affected. The grave in Antrim of the clergyman and his family represents how many suffered. Doctors and clergy died in large numbers because they were fearless in their efforts to help their people. With starvation came disease and many of the doctors and clergy and their families died as a result of these diseases. My Great Great Grandparents Edward and Bridget (nee Brannigan) Rice of Islandmoyle, Clonduff Parish, County Down died from TB during the Famine, leaving two small daughters orphaned one which was my Great Grandmother Elizabeth Rice Flanagan of Kinghill, Cabra, County Down. As you said Maisie starvation and famine affects all people, it doesn't single out a particular religion. The areas hardest hit were the rural areas outside of the northeast and those areas were mostly Catholic so possibly that is why this was mentioned. The Quakers and many more tried to help the desperate situation. "in light of the fact that I read somewhere that the majority of people in the U.S.A with "Irish" names happen to be Protestant. By extension would not this lead one to assume that many Protestants left as a result of the famine?" Most of Ireland suffered horrifically from during the Great Famine (An Gorta Mor- Great Hunger). The areas affected to a lesser degree were those in the northeast which had the majority of Protestants. This area was more industralized and had the shipping trade in Belfast and other sources of income. No place in Ireland escaped the horrors of the Famine. During the Penal Code days the Irish Catholics were the most harshly treated by the English government, but the Dissenters were also abused by the government. The Dissenters were primarily those of Scottish Presbysterian ancestry. The majority of the Protestant population in the U.S. that you refer to, immigrated in the 1700s and early 1800s. I can't remember the percentage of Washington's Army but it was overwhelming filled with Irish surnames. The wave of Irish immigration during the Great Famine (1845-52 and the aftermath) were mostly poor Irish Catholics escaping starvation and disease caused by the Great Famine. The Protestant population you referred to wished to stay aloof from the new wave of poor Irish immigrants and to separate themselves from these new arrivals from their homeland they referred to themselves as Scotch - Irish (now more popularly spelled Scotts). The term Scotch-Irish came into being during the massive Famine immigration period and it meant Irish Protestant as opposed to the new comer Irish who were mostly Catholic. Ireland had many potato crop failures dating back to the 1700s and another one in the 1870s which saw another round of Irish immigration.What separated Ireland from other areas controlled by England is that the landlords wanted higher profit from their lands. It was not advantageous for the landlords (mostly absentee) to have their land inhabited by Irishmen. It was more profitable to clear the land and use it for something that had a higher income yield. Lord Palmerson had more than 2,000 tenants in County Sligo. He wanted his lands cleared of the Irish and most of them were evicted and sent to Canada on what became known as the "Coffin Ships". Many Irish were sent to Canada because it was part of the Bristish Empire and the strict health standards required in New York were not required by the Canadians. Many were still quarantined at Gross Ill (an island off Quebec). The story of Gross Ill is infamous where thousands from the "Coffin Ships" died. Many landlords did not allow their tenants to fish in the lakes or rivers on their land. This prevented the poor tenant from a source of food. I know first had from our family history what happened regarding fishing off Malin Head, County Donegal. My four grandparents were from Ireland. My grandmother Catherine Doherty Smith from County Donegal was born in 1870 and immigrated to Braddock, Pennsylvania in 1889. When she was growing up the coast guard would patrol the coast off Malin Head and conficate any fish caught by the locals because the fish belonged to the landlord. The records of those transported to Van Dieman's Land and Australia tell a black side of the Famine story. When a tenant (remember most of the land was confiscated from the Irish during the Cromwellian period and after the Battle of the Boyne), killed a rabbit or any animal on the land it was not his to use for food because the landlord owned it. When you read a record of someone transported for theft of an animal, stop and think of the year ( was it the Great Famine or a minor blight year?) and what was stolen. It gives you a very different view of the majority of those transported. There is more to be said on this subject but this post is already too long. The set of circumstances in Ireland were not duplicated in England or Scotland even though other areas suffered. The story of An Gorta Mor is one of heart ache and tragedy. There are a lot of factual history books regarding the tragedy, if these are read instead of revisionist historian accounts, we can gain knowledge of what our ancestors experienced. It is important to remember those who suffered and died during An Gorta Mor. It is an interesing side note that Ireland even today is one of the first countries in the world to respond generously with aid for famine torn areas of the world. Beannachtai, Margaret (Máiread) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maisie Egger" <campsiehills@sbcglobal.net> To: <irelandgenweb@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [Irish Genealogy] Great Famine: British Government 1845-46-PrimeMinister Robert PEEL's Response - Corn Laws Let's not forget, too, that the Quakers, after the first potato failure, tried to educate and convince the native Irish to switch to other crops, but they were so entrenched in growing potatoes that they could not, would not, change their dependence on the it. Not wishing to interject religion here, it is a glittering generality to state, as one lister wrote, that Catholics suffered more than Protestants during the famine, in light of the fact that I read somewhere that the majority of people in the U.S.A with "Irish" names happen to be Protestant. By extension would not this lead one to assume that many Protestants left as a result of the famine? On a more personal note, a little Anglican church near where my girlfriend lives in Cullybackey, Co. Antrim, has graves of a whole family, the father who was the parish priest, his wife and all their children, who perished from starvation as a result of the famine. We have to be very careful in saying that one religious group suffered more than the other. No doubt the Catholics outnumbered the Protestants and this is the reason why their numbers seem to be higher, and not because they were being singled out to be starved more than those of the opposite persuasion. I can't recall the author or title of the book I read many years ago in which of the Quaker efforts were "treated" to try to assuage the horrors of the famine, but the Google article will further shed some light on the times. Please note: the Quakers offered their help to all. Trevelyan is the "baddie" in this whole scheme of things, and not necessarily Queen Victoria, as some "researchers" state. The Highland Clearances (Scottish Gaelic: Fuadaich nan Gàidheal, the expulsion of the Gael), not on the scale of the Irish Famine of the 1840s period, have their "baddies," too, namely the Duke (English) and Countess of Sutherland (Scottish) and their factor Peter Sellar (Scottish) who was acquitted of homicide.