THERE WERE ROSES My song for you this evening, it's not to make you sad Nor for adding to the sorrows of this troubled northern land, But lately I've been thinking and it just won't leave my mind I'll tell you of two friends one time were both good friends of mine. Allan Bell from Banagh, he lived across the fields A great man for the music and the dancing and the reels. O'Malley came from South Armagh to court young Alice fair. And we'd often meet on the Ryan Road and the laughter filled the air. There were roses, roses There were roses And the tears of the people Ran together Though Allan, he was Protestant, and Sean was Catholic born, It never made a difference for the friendship it was strong And sometimes in the evening when we heard the sound of drums We said, "It won't divide us. We always will be one." For the ground our fathers plowed in, the soil it is the same, And the places where we say our prayers have just got different names. We talked about the friends who died, and we hoped there'd be no more. It's little then we realized the tragedy in store. It was on a Sunday morning when the awful news came round. Another killing has been done outside Newry Town. We knew that Allan danced up there, we knew he liked the band When we heard that he was dead we just could not understand. We gathered at the graveside on that cold and rainy day, And the minister he closed his eyes and prayed for no revenge, All of us who knew him from along the Ryan Road, We bowed our heads and said a prayer for the resting of his soul. Now fear, it filled the countryside. There was fear in every home When a car of death came prowling round the lonely Ryan Road. A Catholic would be killed tonight to even up the score. "Oh Christ! It's young O'Malley that they've taken from the door" "Allan was my friend," he cried. He begged them with his fear, But centuries of hatred have ears that cannot hear. An eye for an eye was all that filled their mind And another eye for another eye till everyone is blind. So my song for you this evening it's not to make you sad Nor for adding to the sorrows of your troubled northern land. But lately I've been thinking and it just won't leave my mind. I'll tell you of two friends one time who were both good friends of mine. I don't know where the moral is or where this wong should end. But I wondered just how many wars are fought between good friends. And those who give the orders are not the ones to die, It's Bell and O'Malley and the likes of you and I. There were roses, roses There were roses And the tears of the people Ran together -- Tommy Sands

Thank you, Mary Ray

Ray - Maybe Andy O'Halloran in Knocknagree, Co. Cork can help and/or put you in contact with someone. As I recall, is a prominent member of his community and in real estate. He and his wife kindly took my sister and I around to see the sights in Ireland one day during our summer 2006 vacation. hoydna@eircom.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Briggs" <raybriggs9999@yahoo.com> To: <irelandgenweb@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [Irish Genealogy] Brief Overview of Irish History Hi Mary, You have helped me in the past. Can you tell me how to get a realtor to respond regarding a Farm he is advertising for sale in Sligo, Ireland ? This is my Wife's mother family home. I want to ask the selling price I get no reply to several e-mails to the realtor. Is this common to people outside Ireland regarding property for sale ? Ray

Hi Mary, You have helped me in the past. Can you tell me how to get a realtor to respond regarding a Farm he is advertising for sale in Sligo, Ireland ? This is my Wife's mother  family home. I want to ask the selling price  I get no reply to several e-mails to the realtor. Is this common to people outside Ireland regarding property for sale ? Ray

BRIEF HISTORY: The first people who settled in Ireland were hunters, probably from Scotland, who arrived in Co. Antrim c. 7000 BC. By 3000 BC tribes from the Mediterranean were building megalithic tombs all over Ireland which reveal a high degree of civilization. The most spectacular are the passage graves at Newgrange, Co. Meath, Carrowmore and Lough Crew, all of which can be visited. The National Museum in Dublin has a collection of masterpieces from this period: gold collars, torcs, dress fasteners and hair ornaments. The Celts arrived around 300 BC bringing their distinctive culture, laws and customs. The Irish language derives from a dialect of Celtic, and "The Tain" is an epic account of Celtic life at that time. In the 5th century ST. PATRICK brought Christianity from Britain, establishing monasteries which became not only centres of learning but in effect small towns. Places associated with Patrick include Slane, Co. Meath, where he lit a Paschal fire in defiance of the Druids, Tara where he used the shamrock to convince the high king about the Trinity and Downpatrick where a crude slab marks his grave. Irish monks produced a large number of beautifully illustrated manuscripts, among them the Books of Durrow, Armagh and Kells, which can be seen in Trinity College Dublin. The monasteries of Clonmacnoise, Glendalough and Kildare drew scholars from all over Europe. In turn Irish missionaries took education and religion to every corner of Europe. At the same time craftsmen were producing exquisite reliquaries, brooches, belts and personal adornments made of gold and studded with precious stones (see the Ardagh Chalice and Cross of Cong in the National Museum). This period is rightly known as the golden age. The wealth of the monasteries and their towns attracted the Vikings, who swept in burning and killing. Distinctive round towers and bell towers were built as a refuge from them. Later the Vikings settled around the coast and founded towns such as Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Dublin . They were finally defeated by BRIAN BORU at the Battle of Clontarf in 1014. On his death, inter-kingdom rivalry led to a century of chaos until the Normans arrived from England and brought order and prosperity. They were so well assimilated into Irish society that the English crown decided a reconquest was needed. Ulster put up fierce resistance under Hugh O'NEILL and Hugh O' DONNELL but they were finally defeated at the Battle of Kinsale in 1601. Their exile and that of the Gaelic aristocracy is known as the "flight of the earls." The systematic dispossession of the natives and settlement of migrants from England and Scotland followed. This division of Protestant settler and native Catholic has had repercussions ever since. The campaign of Oliver CROMWELL in Ireland is infamous and lives on in folk memory as the "curse of Cromwell." His approach to the Irish problem was drastic: the remaining lands were taken from their owners; those who could prove themselves loyal were exiled to Connacht, while others were put to death. JAMES II was deposed from the English throne for trying to impose Catholicism on the English by WILLIAM of ORANGE in 1688. William then defeated him at the Battle of the Boyne on 12 July 1690. This battle is celebrated each year as Orangeman's Day, a public holiday in Northern Ireland. James was replaced by Patrick SARSFIELD, and the war dragged on until the signing of the Treaty of Limerick, which was accompanied by the imposition of harsh penal laws. This oppression, coupled with grinding poverty and recurring food shortages, set the pattern for more than a century. A series of revolts at the end of the 18th century culminated with the French invasion of Killala, Co. Mayo. Although initially successful it was finally suppressed with great slaughter. The Act of Union in 1800 abolished the Dublin parliament and removed power to London. Daniel O' CONNELL's election to Westminster (which, as a Catholic, he was forbidden to enter) led to the repeat of the more oppressive laws and to Catholic emancipation. A firm believer in non-violence, he came near to the repeal of the union but his final years were clouded by the Great Famine when nearly a million died and two million emigrated. PARNELL became leader of the Home Rule Party in 1877, and, with GLADSTONE's support, a home rule bill nearly succeeded. Other leaders followed: Arthur GRIFFITH founded Sinn Fein as a non-violent movement and James LARKIN and James CONNOLLY became key people in the labour movement. In 1912 the Commons passed the home rule bill. Ireland was to have self-government after WWI. There was no rejoicing among the Protestants in Ulster. They quickly armed themselves to fight to maintain the link with Britain. In Dublin a group of volunteers decided they could not wait for the end of the war, and began the Easter Rising of 1916. Although unsuccessful and condemned by most Irish people, the executing of its leaders changed public opinion. The Anglo-Irish war lasted from 1919 to 1921. The Treaty of 1921 gave independence to 26 of the 32 counties: six of the Ulster counties remained under British rule with a parliament in Belfast. A sector of the Republican movement opposed this compromise and a bitter civil war followed, culminating in the death of Michael COLLINS, the young Cork man who masterminded the war of independence. WWII imposed great strains on the Free State (economically stagnant for many years) which stayed neutral. Sean LEMASS later adopted a more vigorous, expansionist economic policy which brought new prosperity and paved the way for Ireland's entry to the European Economic Community (EEC) in 1972. Today the Republic of Ireland is a parliamentary democracy with a president as head of state.

I would imagine they were bringing the children to Virginia. Jamestown was the first permanent English settlement - in 1607. Edel Codd, Tralee In Kerry/Dingle Peninsula: ASHE-Camp & Ballyknockane, & related; BROSNAN-Dingle Town, & related; CAVANAUGH–Holyoke, MA area (related to BROSNAN) In Wexford: CODD, Woodlands & Carne, & related; FARDY, Coolboy, Gusserane, & related; PRESCOTT – Albany, NY > From: polly shaw <polly@pollyshaw.com> > Subject: [Irish Genealogy] Slave children to America > To: IRELANDGENWEB@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4A01AAAF.7010701@pollyshaw.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Delanceyplace.com is playing a little fast and loose with > American > history. Where is it they were sending those children > swept up in > 1618? The Mayflower bringing the 102 passengers to the > first permanent > settlement in America did not arrive until 1620. I would > take a good > part of that "data" about convicts to America > with a large grain of > salt. -- polly >

A WONDERFUL MOTHER God made a wonderful mother, A mother who never grows old; He made her smile of the sunshine, And He molded her heart of pure gold; In her eyes He placed bright shining stars In her cheeks, fair roses you see; God made a wonderful mother, And He gave that dear mother to me. -- Pat O'Reilly , "The Best Loved Poems of the American People," ed. Hazel Felleman (1936).

NOCTURNE The long day was bright, It slowly passed from the purple slopes of the hill; And then the night Came floating quietly down, and the world grew still. Now I lay awake, The south wind stirs the white curtains to and fro. Cries the corncrake In fields that stretch by the stream-side, misty and low. At the meadow's edge I know the faint pink clover is heavy with dew. Under the hedge The speedwell closes its sweet eyes, dreamily blue. With pursed rosy lips The baby buds are asleep on the apple tree. The river slips Beneath the scarcely swayed willows, on to the sea. The dark grows, and grows, But I'm too happy to sleep, and the reason why No creature knows, Save certain little brown birds, and my love, and I. -- Frances Wynne

SNIPPET: Fishermen from the SE of Ireland began to travel regularly to the rich fishing grounds off Newfoundland from the second half of the 17th century. In the first decades of the 19th century the longstanding connections established by seasonal and temporary migration provided the basis for a wave of permanent emigration. An estimated 30,000 to 35,000 people, drawn overwhelmingly from Waterford and its hinterland, settled in Newfoundland 1800-1830, giving its popular culture and spoken English a distinctive flavor.

Jean - You forgot to mention the Great Barrier Reef off the coast of Queensland, Australia, which extends for some 2000 km. Peter W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> To: <irelandgenweb@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 2:46 AM Subject: Re: [Irish Genealogy] Coral Carvers - Also Newfoundland links toWaterford > Hi Faith - Apparently some of your families had ties to Newfoundland. Did > you know that there are important links between Newfoundland and Waterford > fishermen? > > On coral -- It is pulled from the ocean depths and hits the surface > looking > like a mutant from a monster movie. Gnarled, covered with organic > parasites > and debris, it is not even remotely beautiful. But cleaned, cut, carved > and > polished, coral becomes an objet d'art of rare and costly beauty, as > prized > today as it was 10,000 years ago. > > Coral is discovered in still, clear water between 25 and 1000 feet deep. > The > intensity and quality of coral color increases with depth, but coral is > very > sensitive and can breed only in water temperatures between 13 and 16 > degrees > Celsius. These ideal conditions are met in only several places: The best > coral is found in the waters of southern Ireland, the Bay of Biscay to > Madeira, in the Canaries and the Cape de Verde Islands, in the > Mediterranean, the Red Sea, Mauritius, the Malay Archipelago, and in > Japanese waters. Jean > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Faith Capnerhurst" <fcapnerhurst@msn.com> > To: <irelandgenweb@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 3:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Irish Genealogy] Coral Carvers > > >> >> Hi Listers >> Just a bit of background: >> My ggg grandfather was James Allen, a coral and jet carver born in >> Ireland. He later went to England and married Sarah Ann Phillips on the >> 17th Apr 1825 and they had six children. James shows up on the 1841 >> Census but not beyond, and his wife Sarah is a widow on the 1851 Census. >> What county would a coral carver be likely to come from? Would there >> have >> been a certain area where this occupation was practiced? Would there be >> apprenticeship records that I could tap into? > >> Faith Capnerhurst >> Chilliwack, BC Canada >> researching (England):CAPNERHURST/CAPENHURST, CHADD, CARRINGTON, SMITH, >> PARDOE, GREEN & ALLEN >> (Newfoundland): CLARK(E), HURDLE, DYKE, HALL, PARROT, FLEET, HUNT, & >> WISEMAN > > > > Check out the Ireland GenWeb website at: http://www.irelandgenweb.com/ > > Great place to get help with your family research. > > County Clare has been adopted! > > Help wanted: County Coordinators > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELANDGENWEB-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Thanks So much for this, Jean. I had no idea there was any coral around Ireland itself...leaves one to wonder, doesn't it? Faith researching (England):CAPNERHURST/CAPENHURST, CHADD, CARRINGTON, SMITH, PARDOE, GREEN & ALLEN (Newfoundland): CLARK(E), HURDLE, DYKE, HALL, PARROT, FLEET, HUNT, & WISEMAN > From: jeanrice@cet.com > To: irelandgenweb@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:46:35 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Irish Genealogy] Coral Carvers - Also Newfoundland links to Waterford > > Hi Faith - Apparently some of your families had ties to Newfoundland. Did > you know that there are important links between Newfoundland and Waterford > fishermen? > > On coral -- It is pulled from the ocean depths and hits the surface looking > like a mutant from a monster movie. Gnarled, covered with organic parasites > and debris, it is not even remotely beautiful. But cleaned, cut, carved and > polished, coral becomes an objet d'art of rare and costly beauty, as prized > today as it was 10,000 years ago. > > Coral is discovered in still, clear water between 25 and 1000 feet deep. The > intensity and quality of coral color increases with depth, but coral is very > sensitive and can breed only in water temperatures between 13 and 16 degrees > Celsius. These ideal conditions are met in only several places: The best > coral is found in the waters of southern Ireland, the Bay of Biscay to > Madeira, in the Canaries and the Cape de Verde Islands, in the > Mediterranean, the Red Sea, Mauritius, the Malay Archipelago, and in > Japanese waters. Jean > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Faith Capnerhurst" <fcapnerhurst@msn.com> > To: <irelandgenweb@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 3:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Irish Genealogy] Coral Carvers > > > > > > Hi Listers > > Just a bit of background: > > My ggg grandfather was James Allen, a coral and jet carver born in > > Ireland. He later went to England and married Sarah Ann Phillips on the > > 17th Apr 1825 and they had six children. James shows up on the 1841 > > Census but not beyond, and his wife Sarah is a widow on the 1851 Census. > > What county would a coral carver be likely to come from? Would there have > > been a certain area where this occupation was practiced? Would there be > > apprenticeship records that I could tap into? > > > Faith Capnerhurst > > Chilliwack, BC Canada > > researching (England):CAPNERHURST/CAPENHURST, CHADD, CARRINGTON, SMITH, > > PARDOE, GREEN & ALLEN > > (Newfoundland): CLARK(E), HURDLE, DYKE, HALL, PARROT, FLEET, HUNT, & > > WISEMAN > > > > Check out the Ireland GenWeb website at: http://www.irelandgenweb.com/ > > Great place to get help with your family research. > > County Clare has been adopted! > > Help wanted: County Coordinators > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRELANDGENWEB-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Internet explorer 8 lets you browse the web faster. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655582

MUNSTER: The province of Munster is composed of Cos. Clare, Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Tipperary and Waterford. It is the largest province in Ireland, rich and confident, having three of the Republic's six cities, four of her great rivers, and the great flow and estuary of the Shannon, longest river in Britain and Ireland. It has a massive diversity of landscape, from the most fertile, the Golden Vale, to the least fertile, the naked limestone plains of north Clare. There, in the Burren, one finds such botanical variety that flowers found elsewhere only in the Alps, and those of the Mediterranean lowlands can be seen growing side by side! Kerry and Cork have fuchsia hedges, rhododendron forests, and plants found nowhere else north of Spain. Of all the provinces it has the longest Gulf Stream coast and the mildest climate. It may rain, deep in the west, but there are a greater number of frost-free days in Munster than anywhere north of the Channel Isles. Migrant birds flock in their hundred thousands to Munster estuaries in winter, and Cape Clear is the oldest bird observatory in the Republic. Of Ireland's 66 Blue Flag beaches (those meeting European Union standards relating to water quality and general cleanliness), 26 are in Munster. For the saltwater fisherman, it is lapped by the most fertile sea - 3/4 of all specimen sea fish are caught in southwestern waters. Here, the first sharks of summer are hooked, tagged and released, drifting north on the Gulf Stream. Whales pass by, and giant leather-back turtles circumnavigate the Atlantic from their nesting beaches in the Caribbean. For the inland angler, Munster rivers are said to hold the most bountiful stocks of brown trout, and almost every river has a respectable salmon run. Waterville is one of the best sea-trout lakes in Europe. Kerry also has a large colony of natterjack toads which live in the dunes backing the five-mile (8 km) long strand at Inch. The elegant snow white egret, a new visitor, favours the southwest and it nests in Ireland. Munster has, also, a richer variety of warm-blooded wild creatures than any other province including the pine marten, bank vole and red squirrel. The Munster people are warm blooded themselves and famous for sport and song. Munster was the nursery of many a journeyman saint who set out from stone cells by lake and sea to carry the Christian light to Dark Age Europe. The oldest surviving Christian church in Ireland is Gallarus Oratory, near Slea Head, and the first Protestant church built in Ireland is in Bandon, Co. Cork. Everywhere the landscape is dotted with relics of an earlier worship; stone circles and dolmens, their capstones like alters under the vault of the sky. Munster has always produced Irish patriots and liberators. It was Brian Boru, from Clare, High King of Ireland, who defeated the Vikings. The ancient abbey that tops the Rock of Cashel-of-the-Kings rises dramatic and lovely out of the Tipperary plain. Daniel O'Connell, "the Liberator," was born in Kerry. Michael Collins, who led the fight for Irish independence in 1919-1921, was born and died in west Cork. The cottage in which de Valera, the first Taoiseach, was reared was at Bruree in the Golden Vale. Cashel is only one of thousands of ruins of old Ireland still extant in Munster. Cork has 2,000 prehistoric sites, and Limerick's Lough Gur offers fine examples of early lake dwellings. Co. Limerick, alone, has 400 castles! Everywhere in Muster one comes upon elegant, roofless abbeys, squat oratories, ivy-bound churches and gutted stately houses. It is also quite likely that Munster was the home to the first potatoes, imported from America and welcomed at Youghal by Sir Walter Raleigh, also an import to Ireland, but not so welcome himself. At Youghal, also, was possibly smoked the first pipe of the insidious tobacco - but we can blame Raleigh for that. Munster has some of the finest progenitors and practitioners of Irish music among the people of Clare. Ireland's composer, Wallace, of Waterford, was Munster born, as was the modern composer, Sean O'Riada, and the great poet in Gaelic, Aodhagan O'Rathaille. In science, Munstermen also made their mark - Boyle, of Boyle's Law, was born at Lismore Castle in 1627. For sporting, the Munster people are famous. Jack Doyle, the boxer, was born at Cobh on the Shannon Estuary. Cork also has more All Ireland Hurling medals than any other county, and was the home to the legendary hurler, Christy Ring. Its road bowlers sling a bowl with great flair and accuracy. The first steeplechase ever was galloped between the steeples of Buttevant and Doneraile, in Co. Cork. The fine stud farms of Tipperary and north Cork are famous. Sons of Shergar, prince of stallions, can be seen grazing the parklands on long, slim legs. Vincent O'Brien, doyen of trainers, has his stables, still in business, at Ballydoyle. Master MacGrath, the world-beating greyhound, was pupped in Waterford. Munster offers the finest, most scenic golf in Europe, with four world-class links courses close together in Kerry and Clare. The oldest yacht club in the world is on Cork harbour. Being arguably the most beautiful province, it is the most filmed. "Moby Dick" was made off the Cork coast. "Ryan's Daughter," on the coast of Kerry. Craftsman abound, and the finest crystal glass in the world is made in Waterford, an amazingly successful venture begun by the Penrose brothers. Skellig Michael, one of the two Skellig Rocks which rise out of the Atlantic, is off the coast of Kerry. Its beehive huts are still clinging to the clifftop 700 feet above the sea built in the 6th century by members of a religious order whose successors remained on the island, cut off from the world by eight miles of often raging ocean, for the next 600 years. Humour is the breath of life and the tradition of talk, song, dance and banter is treasured in Munster, where the softest Irish and the most melodious English is spoken. It is said that when Cork men or Kerry women speak, you might think they were singing to you. Excerpts, "Irish Counties," J. J. Lee (1997)

Hi Faith - Apparently some of your families had ties to Newfoundland. Did you know that there are important links between Newfoundland and Waterford fishermen? On coral -- It is pulled from the ocean depths and hits the surface looking like a mutant from a monster movie. Gnarled, covered with organic parasites and debris, it is not even remotely beautiful. But cleaned, cut, carved and polished, coral becomes an objet d'art of rare and costly beauty, as prized today as it was 10,000 years ago. Coral is discovered in still, clear water between 25 and 1000 feet deep. The intensity and quality of coral color increases with depth, but coral is very sensitive and can breed only in water temperatures between 13 and 16 degrees Celsius. These ideal conditions are met in only several places: The best coral is found in the waters of southern Ireland, the Bay of Biscay to Madeira, in the Canaries and the Cape de Verde Islands, in the Mediterranean, the Red Sea, Mauritius, the Malay Archipelago, and in Japanese waters. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Faith Capnerhurst" <fcapnerhurst@msn.com> To: <irelandgenweb@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Irish Genealogy] Coral Carvers > > Hi Listers > Just a bit of background: > My ggg grandfather was James Allen, a coral and jet carver born in > Ireland. He later went to England and married Sarah Ann Phillips on the > 17th Apr 1825 and they had six children. James shows up on the 1841 > Census but not beyond, and his wife Sarah is a widow on the 1851 Census. > What county would a coral carver be likely to come from? Would there have > been a certain area where this occupation was practiced? Would there be > apprenticeship records that I could tap into? > Faith Capnerhurst > Chilliwack, BC Canada > researching (England):CAPNERHURST/CAPENHURST, CHADD, CARRINGTON, SMITH, > PARDOE, GREEN & ALLEN > (Newfoundland): CLARK(E), HURDLE, DYKE, HALL, PARROT, FLEET, HUNT, & > WISEMAN

SNIPPET: The secret ballot, ending the system whereby a voter's choice was publicly declared and entered beside his name, was introduced throughout the United Kingdom from 1872. Its impact on Irish politics was relatively minor. Already before 1874 O'Donovan Rossa's election for Tipperary, and a series of subsequent by-election victories for home rulers, had demonstrated that voters were prepared to defy pressure from landlords (and in some cases priests) in order to support popular nationalist candidates. The act did, however, make it easier for Ulster Protestant voters to back the cause of land reform, contributing to the significant electoral advance of Ulster Liberalism before and during the Land War.

Dear Maisie It is well to remember that when the American Revolution put an end to the export of British convicts to North America, the British authorities turned their eyes to a new dumping ground - the recently discovered (Captain James Cook in 1770) east coast of New South Wales (Australia). The first Irish convicts arrived at Sydney Town in September 1791 aboard the convict transport 'Queen'. Irish descendant and author, Nial Brennan, in his book "John Wren, Gambler - His life and Times", (1971, p. ix) writes: "The first Irish came to Australia in chains, for various offences, many of them only suspected, and most connected with the revolution of 1798. The Year of Liberty, as it was called, turned out to be the end of liberty for most of them. Six thousand Irish were transported to Australia, by way of the Wexford and Cork harbour hulks as a result of the uprising, and few events had a more direct effect on the structure of the Colony's populations that what came to be know as the 'Ninety Eight'." Peter Wilkinson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maisie Egger" <campsiehills@sbcglobal.net> To: "IRELANDGENWEB" <IRELANDGENWEB@rootsweb.com>; <LANARK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:30 AM Subject: [Irish Genealogy] Fw: delanceyplace.com 1/28/09--our americanancestors > delanceyplace.com 1/28/09--our american ancestorsMaybe some of yours! > Maisie > Subject: delanceyplace.com 1/28/09--our american ancestors > > > > > > In today's excerpt-early British colonizers of America in the 1600s > and 1700s needed laborers for their new colonies: > > "They needed a compliant, subservient, preferably free labour force > and since the indigenous peoples of America were difficult to enslave they > turned to their own homeland to provide. They imported Britons deemed to > be 'surplus' people--the rootless, the unemployed, the criminal and the > dissident--and held them in the Americas in various forms of bondage for > anything from three years to life. ... In the early decades, half of them > died in bondage. > > "Among the first to be sent were children. Some were dispatched by > impoverished parents seeking a better life for them. But others were > forcibly deported. In 1618, the authorities in London began to sweep up > hundreds of troublesome urchins from the slums and, ignoring protests from > the children and their families, shipped them to Virginia. ... It was > presented as an act of charity: the 'starving children' were to be given a > new start as apprentices in America. In fact, they were sold to planters > to work in the fields and half of them were dead within a year. Shipments > of children continued from England and then from Ireland for decades. Many > of these migrants were little more than toddlers. In 1661, the wife of a > man who imported four 'Irish boys' into Maryland as servants wondered why > her husband had not brought 'some cradles to have rocked them in' as they > were 'so little.' > > "A second group of forced migrants from the mother country were > those, such as vagrants and petty criminals, whom England's rulers wished > to be rid of. The legal ground was prepared for their relocation by a > highwayman turned Lord Chief Justice ,who argued for England's jails to be > emptied in America. Thanks to men like him, 50,000 to 70,000 convicts (or > maybe more) were transported to Virginia, Maryland, Barbados and England's > other American possessions before 1776. ... > > "A third group were the Irish. ... Under Oliver Cromwell's > ethnic-cleansing policy in Ireland, unknown numbers of Catholic men, women > and children were forcibly transported to the colonies. And it did not end > with Cromwell; for at least another hundred years, forced transportation > continued as a fact of life in Ireland. ... > > "The other unwilling participants in the colonial labour force were > the kidnapped. Astounding numbers are reported to have been snatched from > the streets and countryside by gangs of kidnappers or 'spirits' working to > satisfy the colonial hunger for labour. Based at every sizeable port in > the British Isles, spirits conned or coerced the unwary onto ships bound > for America. ... According to a contemporary who campaigned against the > black slave trade, kidnappers were snatching an average of around 10,000 > whites a year--doubtless an exaggeration but one that indicates a problem > serious enough to create its own grip on the popular mind.' " > > Don Jordan and Michael Walsh, White Cargo, New York University Press, > Copyright 2007 by Don Jordan and Michael Walsh, pp. 12-14. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To visit our homepage or sign up for our daily email click here > To view previous daily emails click here. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > daily@delanceyplace.com > > > Forward email > > > > This email was sent to shrbl@aol.com by > daily@delanceyplace.com. > Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with > SafeUnsubscribeT | Privacy Policy. Email Marketing by > > > Delanceyplace.com | daily@delanceyplace.com | Philadelphia | PA > | 19102 > > > Check out the Ireland GenWeb website at: http://www.irelandgenweb.com/ > > Great place to get help with your family research. > > County Clare has been adopted! > > Help wanted: County Coordinators > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELANDGENWEB-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Dear Faith - Do a Google search using "coral carver, history, 19th century" and you will get some clues. Peter Wilkinson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Faith Capnerhurst" <fcapnerhurst@msn.com> To: <irelandgenweb@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Irish Genealogy] Coral Carvers > > Hi Listers > > > > Just a bit of background: > > My ggg grandfather was James Allen, a coral and jet carver born in > Ireland. He later went to England and married Sarah Ann Phillips on the > 17th Apr 1825 and they had six children. James shows up on the 1841 > Census but not beyond, and his wife Sarah is a widow on the 1851 Census. > > > > My question is: > > > > What county would a coral carver be likely to come from? Would there have > been a certain area where this occupation was practiced? Would there be > apprenticeship records that I could tap into? > > > > Any and all help much appreciated. > > > > Faith Capnerhurst > > Chilliwack, BC Canada > > > > > researching (England):CAPNERHURST/CAPENHURST, CHADD, CARRINGTON, SMITH, > PARDOE, GREEN & ALLEN > (Newfoundland): CLARK(E), HURDLE, DYKE, HALL, PARROT, FLEET, HUNT, & > WISEMAN > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Internet explorer 8 lets you browse the web faster. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655582 > Check out the Ireland GenWeb website at: http://www.irelandgenweb.com/ > > Great place to get help with your family research. > > County Clare has been adopted! > > Help wanted: County Coordinators > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELANDGENWEB-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Delanceyplace.com is playing a little fast and loose with American history. Where is it they were sending those children swept up in 1618? The Mayflower bringing the 102 passengers to the first permanent settlement in America did not arrive until 1620. I would take a good part of that "data" about convicts to America with a large grain of salt. -- polly

Hi Faith - Your ancestor had a very interesting occupation! Perhaps he worked in Dublin or actually learned his craft in England? (One of my ancestors, surname GEORGE, in Tuebrook, West Derby, Liverpool, was an umbrella maker, then a hairdresser, and then a jeweller, on serial censuses and other records.) Doesn't answer your particular query, but lister Peter W. suggested reading (for background) about coral in "The Grove Encyclopedia of Decorative Arts," Oxford University Press -- Jean - This reference may help the Canadian lady re info on coral carving. Peter http://books.google.com.au/books?id=jGsVHV098K0C&pg=PA274&lpg=PA274&dq=coral+carving,+history,+19th+century&source=bl&ots=kPJOz9cWz-&sig=GvE5HgTsRfJs61Y0pGFLGXDSE5M&hl=en&ei=jugASpC1MpCMtgPqttj3BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4 . To include Page 274: "Coral was widely used for jewellery during the 19th century, a pale pink colour being particularly suitable for cameos (e.g. a pendant and a pair of brooches carved with cameo portraits of Bacchus, Apollo and Venus, c. 1854, London). In the Art Deco period coral continued to be used to introduce colour into jewellery and was often carved into abstract geometric shapes and contrasted with transparent gemstones, precious metals or lacquer." J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Faith Capnerhurst" <fcapnerhurst@msn.com> To: <irelandgenweb@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Irish Genealogy] Coral Carvers > > Hi Listers Just a bit of background: > > My ggg grandfather was James Allen, a coral and jet carver born in > Ireland. He later went to England and married Sarah Ann Phillips on the > 17th Apr 1825 and they had six children. James shows up on the 1841 > Census but not beyond, and his wife Sarah is a widow on the 1851 Census. My question is: What county would a coral carver be likely to come from? Would there have been a certain area where this occupation was practiced? Would there be apprenticeship records that I could tap into? Any and all help much appreciated. Faith Capnerhurst Chilliwack, BC Canada researching (England):CAPNERHURST/CAPENHURST, CHADD, CARRINGTON, SMITH, PARDOE, GREEN & ALLEN > (Newfoundland): CLARK(E), HURDLE, DYKE, HALL, PARROT, FLEET, HUNT, & > WISEMAN

That is heartbreaking, isn't it? I had heard this, but not in regards to small children. How awful. I guess we should never doubt that we come from SURVIVORS! Nancy

Hi Listers Just a bit of background: My ggg grandfather was James Allen, a coral and jet carver born in Ireland. He later went to England and married Sarah Ann Phillips on the 17th Apr 1825 and they had six children. James shows up on the 1841 Census but not beyond, and his wife Sarah is a widow on the 1851 Census. My question is: What county would a coral carver be likely to come from? Would there have been a certain area where this occupation was practiced? Would there be apprenticeship records that I could tap into? Any and all help much appreciated. Faith Capnerhurst Chilliwack, BC Canada researching (England):CAPNERHURST/CAPENHURST, CHADD, CARRINGTON, SMITH, PARDOE, GREEN & ALLEN (Newfoundland): CLARK(E), HURDLE, DYKE, HALL, PARROT, FLEET, HUNT, & WISEMAN _________________________________________________________________ Internet explorer 8 lets you browse the web faster. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655582