PERSONAL HELICON As a child, they could not keep me from wells And old pumps with buckets and windlasses. I loved the dark drop, the trapped sky, the smells Of waterweed, fungus and dank moss. One, in a brickyard, with a rotted board top. I savoured the rich crash when a bucket Plummeted down at the end of a rope. So deep you saw no reflection in it. A shallow one under a dry stone ditch Fructified like any aquarium. When you dragged out long roots from the soft mulch A white face hovered over the bottom. Others had echoes, gave back your own call With a clean new music in it. And one Was scaresome for there, out of ferns and tall Foxgloves, a rat slapped across my reflection. Now, to pry into roots, to finger slime. To stare big-eyed Narcissus, into some spring Is beneath all adult dignity. I rhyme To see myself, to set the darkness echoing. -- Seamus Heaney

THE LONG GARDEN It was the garden of the golden apples, A long garden between a railway and a road, In the sow's rooting where the hen scratches We dipped our fingers in the pockets of God. In the thistly hedge old boots were flying sandals By which we travelled through the childhood skies, Old buckets rusty-holed with half-hung handles Were drums to play when old men married wives. The pole that lifted the clothes-line in the middle Was the flag-pole on a prince's palace when We looked at it through fingers crossed to riddle In evening sunlight miracles for men. It was the garden of the golden apples, And when the Carrick train went by we knew That we could never die till something happened Like wishing for a fruit that never grew. Or wanting to be up on Candle-fort Above the village with its shops and mill. The racing cyclists' gasp-gapped reports Hinted of pubs where life can drink his fill. And when the sun went down into Drumcatton And the New Moon by its little finger swung >From the telegraph wires, we knew how God had happened And what the blackbird in the whitethorn sang. It was the garden of the golden apples, The half-way house where we had stopped a day Before we took the west road to Drumcatton Where the sun was always setting on the play. -- Patrick Kavanagh

Can sks help me find the origins of these two families. The Collerins changed their name to Collins when they lived in Birmingham UK. Joseph was a Builder and died after 1872 and before 1913. The Delandres or d'elanders spelled their name differently when they lived in Bradford, Yorkshire. Is it coincidence that neither family shows up on the usual data sources and that both are catholic? Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Colin (named after my grandfather Collins) Yarwood

I just happened to have ordered from my FHC the indexes for 1864-68. That's a LITTLE early for what you're looking for, but I'll be glad to look for your man when they come in! Also, when I'm done looking at these years, I'll be ordering the next five. The time frame I'm figuring that I'd get back to you in is probably four to six weeks. Is that ok? Also, if you do want me to check this for you, where was Samuel supposed to have been born, parents's names, anything else beside tentative date? Jeanne Foley Dwyer You wrote: > Hello > Would anybody have access to the irish Birth > Indexes fr 1872, 1873 and 1874. My ancestor > Hugh Samuel Carlisle was supposed to have been > born on 24th January 1874 and I have requested > the birth certificate but they couldn't find > it. I am now hoping that maybe he lied about > his age and he may be in the years preceeding. > He is my direct line back and I need his birth > details to confirm another ancestor (hopefully > his parents and siblings). Any help or ideas > would be gratefully appreciated. > > Allyson Jardine, Dumfries > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

Hello Would anybody have access to the irish Birth Indexes fr 1872, 1873 and 1874. My ancestor Hugh Samuel Carlisle was supposed to have been born on 24th January 1874 and I have requested the birth certificate but they couldn't find it. I am now hoping that maybe he lied about his age and he may be in the years preceeding. He is my direct line back and I need his birth details to confirm another ancestor (hopefully his parents and siblings). Any help or ideas would be gratefully appreciated. Allyson Jardine, Dumfries

DIGGING Between my finger and my thumb The squat pen rests; snug as a gun. Under my window, a clean rasping sound When the spade sinks into gravelly ground: My father, digging. I look down Till his straining rump among the flowerbeds Bends low, comes up twenty years away Stooping in rhythm through potato drills Where he was digging. The coarse boot nestled on the lug, the shaft Against the inside knee was levered firmly. He rooted out tall tops, buried the bright edge deep To scatter new potatoes that we picked Loving their cool hardness in our hands. By God, the old man could handle a spade. Just like his old man. My grandfather cut more turf in a day Than any other man on Toner's bog. Once I carried him milk in a bottle Corked sloppily with paper. He straightened up To drink it, then fell to right away Nicking and slicing neatly, heaving sods Over his shoulder, going down and down For the good turf. Digging. The cold smell of potato mould, the squelch and slap Of soggy peat, the curt cuts of an edge Through living roots awaken in my head. But I've no spade to follow men like them. Between my finger and my thumb The squat pen rests. I'll dig with it. -- Seamus Heaney

LIKE DOLMENS ROUND MY CHILDHOOD, THE OLD PEOPLE Like dolmens round my childhood, the old people. Jamie MacCrystal sang to himself, A broken song without tune, without words; He tipped me a penny every pension day, Fed kindly crusts to winter birds. When he died his cottage was robbed, Mattress and money box torn and searched. Only the corpse they didn't disturb. Maggie Owens was surrounded by animals, A mongrel bitch and shivering pups, Even in her bedroom a she-goat cried. She was a well of gossip defiled, Fanged chronicler of a whole countryside: Reputed a witch, all I could find Was her lonely need to deride. The Nialls lived along a mountain lane Where heather bells bloomed, clumps of foxglove. All were blind, with Blind Pension and Wireless, Dead eyes serpent-flicked as one entered To shelter from a downpour of mountain rain. Crickets chirped under the rocking hearthstone Until the muddy sun shone out again. Mary Moore lived in a crumbling gatehouse, Famous as Pisa for its leaning gable. Bag-apron and boots, she tramped the fields Driving lean cattle from a miry stable. A by-word for fierceness, she fell asleep Over love stories, Red Star and Red Circle, Dreamed of gypsy love rites, by firelight sealed. Wild Billy Eagleson married a Catholic servant girl When all his Loyal family passed on: We danced round him shouting "To Hell with King Billy," And dodged from the arc of his flailing blackthorn. Forsaken by both creeds, he showed little concern Until the Orange drums banged past in the summer And bowler and sash aggressively shone. Curate and doctor trudged to attend them, Through knee-deep snow, through summer heat, >From main road to lane to broken path, Gulping the mountain air with painful breath. Sometimes they were found by neighbours, Silent keepers of a smokeless hearth, Suddenly cast in the mould of death. -- John Montague

> Passing along more information -- See query below (plus good URLs). > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <enalibof@netscape.net> > To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:37 PM > Subject: RE: [IRELAND] Copies of Birth Certificates ( > > > The Irish Punt is no longer being accepted as payment. > > They do not accept credit cards, but will take International Money Orders, > cash, Postal Orders or personal cheques in euro (euro cheques must be drawn > from an Irish Bank); U.S.dollar cash or personal cheques; Sterling cash, > personal checks or Postal Orders: exchange rates fluctuate on a daily basis, > your bank should be able to tell you the current rate or there are numerous > websites providing this information (search under currency+exchange or > currency+converter). Checks etc. should be payable to General Register > Office and cash should always be sent by Registered mail. > > Births, Death and Roman Catholic marriages certificates are available from > > Office of the Registrar General > > Joyce House > > 11/13 Lombard Street East > > Dublin 2 Ireland > > Fees are at the following address: http://www.groireland.ie/fees.htm > > There is no minimum payment amount for international orders. > > > > Ellen > > Mary Elizabeth Wagner <catladymew@yahoo.com> wrote: > Could someone please tell me who I can write to > > >obtain a copy of a birth certificate in Ireland and > > >the US cost involved? > > > > > > I have the district, volume and page number from > > >the civil registration index. Is there any more > > >information than that which is required to obtain a > > >copy of the birth certificate? > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Mary Elizabeth > > > > > >RESEARCHING: McKERNAN/McKIERNAN in Co. Antrim and > > > Co. Leitrim; > > > MULDOWNEY in Co. Kilkenny; and > > > KEARNEY in Co. Louth > > > > >==== IRELAND Mailing List ==== > > >Visit the Ireland List Homepage: > > >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~irelandlist > > >De nobis fabula narratur, their story is our story > > >http://irelandgenealogyprojects.rootsweb.com > > > > > >============================== > > >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== IRELAND Mailing List ==== > > Visit the Ireland List Homepage: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~irelandlist > > De nobis fabula narratur, their story is our story > > http://irelandgenealogyprojects.rootsweb.com > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > >

> Passing this information along -- see query below. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Brennan" <michael@janbren.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 1:40 PM > Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Copies of Birth Certificates > > > All the info you need is on here > > http://www.janbren.freeserve.co.uk/how_to.htm including a currency > > converter. > > > > Regards > > > > Michael Brennan in Kent County, England > > Award Winning CARLOW IGP: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlcar2/ > > My Family/Co Laois URL: http://www.brennanfamilyhistory.com Query: Could someone please tell me who I can write to > > > obtain a copy of a birth certificate in Ireland and > > > the US cost involved?

Greetings of the day to all of you. This one has been collecting dust for a little while. So, I thought now is the time to bring it back to life again. Do hope that SKS can help me with this little predicament that I am in at the moment. On the 1851 Channel Islands census index there is an Ann Haywood, age 62, born in U.S.A. She is living with her daughter Sarah, age 24, b. Ireland and son Thomas, age 22, b. England. On the 1861 Channel Islands census index Ann is living with another daughter, son-in-law and family and is listed as a widow. The daughter that Ann is living with is called Aley Alice Winnett Buttery (nee Heywood), age 37, and is listed as b. Ireland. Notice the difference in surname spelling. Would SKS have any information on Aley and Sarah during their time living in Ireland and also on Ann's husband? I have a suspicion that the name Aley is another form of Alice. As Aley was my g.grandmother, I would like to get a copy of her birth certificate. Needless to say I would appreciate knowing where she was born. Many thanks in appreciation. Regards. Joan. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

See Query below - Hi, Sharron - You asked about James Connolly - He was born in 1870 near Clones, Co. Monaghan, and was one of the signatories of the Declaration of the Republic, 1916. Others included Padraig Pearse of Dublin, Sean MacDiarmada, of Glenfarne, Co. Leitrim, Eamonn Ceannt of Co. Galway, Joseph Plunkett of Dublin, Thomas MacDonagh of Cloughjordan, Co. Tipperary, and Thomas J. Clarke who had a tobacconist shop in Dublin, not sure where he was born. Although far more complex than this - In Ireland (and not everyone fell neatly in this scheme) there were lines of division. Gains had been made in tenant protection, fixing rents fairly, a guarantee against eviction, and so it was that peasant proprietorship set the tone for modern Irish rural society. And the other two subversive forces of significance, unionism and nationalism, crystalized in the form of Catholic, Gaelic nationalism and Protestant, non-Gaelic unionism. Unionist opposition to Home Rule was fierce as reflected in the Solemn League and Covenant in 1912: "Being convinced in our consciences that Home Rule would be disastrous to the material well-being of Ulster as well as the whole of Ireland, subversive of our civil and religious freedom, destructive of our citizenship, and perilous to the unity of the Empire (we) do hereby pledge ourselves...to stand by one another in defending for ourselves and our children our cherished position of equal citizenship in the United Kingdom and in using all means which may be found necessary to defeat the present conspiracy to set up a Home Rule Parliament." The following year the Ulster Volunteer Force was established. Around the same time the Irish Volunteers were established. There was a nationalist counter-gesture with emphasis on Gaelic culture, development of native Irish sports, cultural attempts to fight against the Anglicisation of Ireland and a political struggle to free Ireland from English control. The Easter 1916 rebellion had little realistic chance of success, and it was crushed by the authorities within a week, but the proclamation which Padraic Pearse read out in Dublin on the opening day of the revolt became of the sacred texts of the Irish republican tradition: "We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people...The Irish republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares it resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past...In this surpreme hour the Irish nation must, by its valour and discipline, and by the readiness of its children to sacrifice themselves for the common good, prove itself worthy of the august destiny to which it is called." Signed on behalf of the provisional government, Thomas J. Clarke, Sean MacDiarmada, Thomas MacDonagh, P. H. Pearse, Eamonn Ceannt, James Connolly, Joseph Plunkett. These men were executed at Kilmainham prison and buried at Arbour Hill Military Prison were considered martyrs for their cause. This event was one in a combination of factors that later united to stimulate nationalist Ireland into a new stage of activity - i.e., Britain's involvement in the First World War seemed to offer an opportunity of striking at a distracted England, and the threatened imposition of conscription on Ireland into the war which served powerfully to alienate many people from the authorities. Until more recently, solutions have remained elusive in the bloody Northern Irish conflict. The existence of competing, self-sustaining forces in Ireland has in many instances culminated in great conflict. Waves of invasion, patterns of settlement, religious and ethnic identity and difference, and the color and complexity of overlapping cultures have rendered Ireland's history both compelling and painful. But it is also true that they have helped to produce an island rich in appeal for many other people, as well, and welcome progess in the road to peace and prosperity has been made in recent years. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharron" <anakie9@bigpond.com> To: "Jean Rice" <jeanrice@cet.com> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [IGW] "Connolly" -- Liam MacGOWAN > Hello from outback Australia. I have just finished reading the verse on > Connelly you sent to the list. I am really taken with this verse. Being born > and bred in Australia I am not really familiar with Irish history as such > but am learning due to my family search which has led me there. > > Can you tell me anymore about Connelly? Was this verse written about a real > person etc? I would like to learn a little more of him if possible. > Thanks > Sharron > >

BIO: Fame came early in the short life of brilliant Welsh poet Dylan THOMAS from Swansea. When he was 20, he played his part in London's literary scene of the day. He lead a rather Bohemian life-style, including heavy drinking. A friend of the poet, Geoffrey GRIGSON, at last urged Dylan to leave London for awhile and made arrangements for a place of retreat. As a result, Dylan THOMAS spent the summer of 1935 in Ireland, in a small cottage in Co. Donegal. There may seen to be a certain irony in the fact that GRIGSON chose Ireland in his attempts to withdraw alcoholic beverages from THOMAS. THOMAS wrote of rugged and breath-taking Co. Donegal -- "Here in Ireland, I'm further away than ever from the permanent world. I'm writing by candle-light all alone in a cottage facing the Atlantic --- Soon I'm going out for a walk in the dark by myself; that'll make happy as hell." To another friend he wrote, "I am ten miles from the nearest human being , with the exception of the deaf farmer who gives me food," referring to Dan WARD and his Irish-speaking wife Rose, who provided meals and sometimes a bit of poitin (illicit whiskey). There was fishing up in the mountain lakes or walks down at the seashore, and late at night Thomas often joined the WARDs for a chat in front of the peatfire listening to local lore. Only once a week THOMAS would bring himself to walk the ten miles to the next pub, more often than not in tough weather. "It rains and it rains. All the damned seagulls are fallen angels." Originally, this place at the end of the world had been discovered by American artist Rockwell KENT in the 1920s. Kent had converted an old donkey-stable into a makeshift studio, but finally abandoned it again when he got weary of too much solitude. This former studio is the cottage that Dylan THOMAS rented in 1935. The Glencolumbkille district where Dylan Thomas spent his holidays is just one of at least three parts of beautiful and wild Donegal that are suitable for hill-walking. THOMAS returned to Ireland in August, 1946, this time with his wife Caitlin MacNAMARA of Ennistymon who was of Irish stock. He spent the "a day on the Blasket: a very calm day, they say: the wind blew me about like a tissue-paper man, and dashed us against the donkeys." -- Excerpt, "Ireland of the Welcomes," May-June 2002

A WHITE ROSE The red rose whispers of passion, And the white rose breathes of love; Oh, the red rose is a falcon, And the white rose is a dove. But I send you a cream-white rosebud With a flush on its petal tips; For the love that is purest and sweetest Has a kiss of desire on the lips. -- John Boyle O'Reilly (1844-1890)

CONNOLLY The man was all shot through that came to-day Into the barrack square; A soldier I -- I am not proud to say We killed him there; They brought him from the prison hospital. To see him in that chair I thought his smile would far more quickly call A man to prayer. Maybe we cannot understand this thing that make these rebels die; And yet all things love freedom and the Spring Clear in the sky! I think I would not do this deed again For all that I hold by; Gaze down my rifle at his breast - but then A soldier I. They say that he was kindly -- different, too Apart from all the rest; A lover of the poor; and all shot through His wounds ill drest, He came before us, faced us like a man, Who knew a deeper pain Than blows or bullets -- ere the world began; Died he in vain? Ready present! And he just smiling -- God! I felt my rifle shake. His wounds were opened out and round that chair Was one red lake; I swear his lips said "Fire!" when all was still Before my rifle spat That cursed lead -- And I was picked to kill A man like that. -- Liam MacGowan (contemporary) (James Connolly, executed May 1916)

TINKER'S MOON Four children on a rumbling cart, A woman trudging beside that load, A lank man leaving the horse to guide A wet road: a dry road: A gravelly road that a woman shall walk And a lank man leave the horse to guide; The tinker's children take their chance, and bide. A lane leads on to one more lane, An uphill to one more hill; A potato patch to thin on the way, a hen to kill. And hunger again: and sleep again: And a moonlight flit while the salmon leaps >From a smouldering spot by the riverside; The tinker's children take their chance, and bide. When Wicklow woods first seemed to wait, As still they wait tonight: I heard that creaking, rumbling cart, And stars the same were out. When you gave pennies to the youngest child, A silent child: a tawny child: The tinker's children meekly are, and mild. And still I hear strange woods among Whenever a creaking cart goes down; The singsong twang of that bawneen man: "Thank you my lady, thank you my lady." As when you gave the child a penny. I hear it in an Irish voice to-day, And saw again though long gone by Four children on a rumbling cart, A woman trudging beside that load, A lank man leaving the horse to guide A wet road: a dry road: A gravelly road for a moonlight flit >From a smouldering spot by the riverside; I saw the stony, rocky road where the tinker's children bide. -- Ewart Milne (1903- )

This is my first posting to this List and I am looking for help to knock down a high brick wall. I realize that it is asking a lot but is there anyone who is able to help me locate the birth place of Robert MURRAY who was born somewhere in Ireland in 1838. This birth date is calculated from the 1881 Birmingham, England census where he was living with his family at that time so could be off a year in either direction. I have read about the destruction of Irish records and would appreciate it if someone will let me know if this is an impossible task I've set myself. Thank you for your time. Celia, USA wlteats@ptd.net

Dear List -- I discovered the charming pages below sometime ago while looking around the freepages website. (See below). I love their interesting and informative pages, but I have trouble getting around from their main index -- but then this grandma of 10 isn't as swift as she used to be! I think I initially put in a surname of interest??? Don't forget to check at the bottom of your incoming e-mails from the lists you are subscribed to as they have some good URLs. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/centenarian.html http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/recollections08.html http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/churches.html Jean

Please could anyone tell me if the is a web site for the above mentioned? Many thanks June Western Australia Searching for Whitfield, Rooke, Howlett, Brown, Bell, Williams, McMillan howlett@wn.com.au www.whitfield.2cuk.co.uk www.cunderdin.20m.com

I forgot to give the IreAtlas URL: http://www.seanruad.com/ The IreAtlas also appears on Ed Finn's fine Leitrim-Roscommon website (a work in progress). His website has info. pertaining to other counties as well. http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/ I find this website an especially good as a resource also for Co. Cavan, as it appears there were quite a few Co. Leitrim individuals on the 1901 Census with connections to Co. Cavan. Jean

See query below Check out: http://www.familysearch.org . You can also visit your local LDS (Mormon) Family History Center and check out their computerized, microfiched and microfilmed records. It is open to all and they have knowledgeable volunteers to help you. As I understand it, you can request any further information on up to 6-8 entries from the IGI index (which often show registration districts, as opposed to townlands) for a total of only a couple dollars. Another resource -- There are also a core of volunteers from all walks of life involved in providing Ireland and UK databases, interesting snippets from old newspapers, etc.: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ I have been enjoying excerpts from the "Liverpool Echo." As you know, for many Irish Liverpool was a stepping-stone in their journey, but for many other Irish, they didn't have the means (or strength) to go any further. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~centenarian.html IreAtlas is indespensible. If you are unsure of the correct spelling of a townland, you can often key in a combination of letters into the townland database - i.e. bally or drum - and it should bring up all townlands containing that sequence of letters no matter where they appears in the placename. If you know the county be sure to modify it so fewer "hits" come up. Jean ---- Original Message ----- From: "June Howlett" <howlett@wn.com.au> To: <IrelandGenWeb-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 10:17 AM Subject: [IGW] Irish Civil Registraltion > Please could anyone tell me if the is a web site for the above mentioned? > > Many thanks > June > Western Australia > Searching for > Whitfield, Rooke, Howlett, Brown, Bell, Williams, McMillan > > howlett@wn.com.au > > www.whitfield.2cuk.co.uk > > www.cunderdin.20m.com > >