Please don't get disheartened! We're all in or waiting for the same boat! I have Bradley's...I know where he was in the US, I have his immigration papers. Do you think I can find out where he came from? HECK NO! I know it's Ireland, says so on the immigration papers, says so on the Civil War enlistment/discharge and pension papers. Can't even find him on a boat coming here (I know they were ships but to a South Philly girl, if it floats, it's a boat) I thought, based on long ago discussions on some Rootsweb list, the Havilands, were part of the deHavilands (as in Olivia DeHaviland). And that those folks descended from Norman invaders. But that's just me extrapolating from 30 years of reading Irish novels/research and Rootsweb for the last 7 years or so. I'm no help at pinpointing them though. Sorry - just don't give up and if you know birth dates, I'd suggest spending the money to send for their Irish Birth certificates. If they are available, it would provide the next clue. In a message dated 1/10/2006 9:11:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, avonlindah@hotmail.com writes: Well, the other problem is that I don't know the original name, so I don't know whether we're Havilands, as in the ones from England and the China, or Havlin, or what. Until I can trace back John and Ann "Havlin", born around 1780 in Ireland, and Roger and Cecilia "Havlin", born at the same time in Ireland (their daughter Ann married John, the son of John and Ann Havlin), I don't know how to proceed any further, even to find out what the name originally was. It changes in records from one spelling to another. When I started searching on the internet I was firmly informed that there were NONE of THE Havilands from Ireland, but I keep finding listings in the census for them all over the place, so I refuse to dismiss the possibility. Anyway, that's where I'm at. On my mother's side I have a surplus of Taylors in England to sort through..the same story..George, son of Thomas Taylor, married Mary, daughter of John Taylor..but at least I have their birthplaces...Linda H. Beth Cherkowsky eBay id = woadieland or queenoftheinternetauctions _My eBay Store_ (http://stores.ebay.com/Queenoftheinternetauctions?refid=stores) _My Store _ (http://members.aol.com/cougartoys/alley.html)