Jean McCoy wrote from Texas: "....Would someone mind explaining the term "Black Irish" to this Texan?..." The idea of the "Black Irish" is a controversial one. There is an interesting (and again I wouldn't agree with it all) academic article about it at the website: http://www.darkfiber.com/blackirish/ There the writer outlines three usages: "...One such employment of the word 'black' in a racial sense is the reference to the "Black Irish" of the British West Indies, the mixed-blood offspring of 17th century Irish emigrants and African slaves who live on the island Montserrat, known also as the "Emerald Isle of the Caribbean." The term "Black Irish" is also currently used with a deprecatory meaning by the Catholic Irish to describe the Protestants of Ireland who have historically supported the British rule of Ulster. "Black" in this sense connotes the "religious and political bigotry" felt by the Catholics towards the "Prods." The third usage of the expression "Black Irish" ... refers to the dark (hence "Black") hair, eyes, and skin that supposedly marks a person of Irish blood as having descended from the conjugal relationship of a Spanish survivor of the Armada with an Irish woman." It is this last idea of a genetic input from Spanish sailors wrecked after the Armada that has seemed to become the popular story, becoming increasingly popular in recent years and spread widely on the internet. It is worth noting that the myth's origin seems to be in the USA and not in Ireland. We could speculate why. There are two simple historical responses to the myth; 1) The ancient racial mix of the people we now call Irish is extremely varied from all over Europe and probably north Africa. There is no problem in understanding a wide range of skin types, colouring, etc. 2) There were hardly any Spanish survivors of the Armada who landed in Ireland - those who did would have been a tiny addition to the gene pool. 1). Even before the Celts there were four or maybe five distinct migrations and/or invasions of European peoples into the island, from as early as 8000 BC. The Celts did not arrive until about 600 BC. There followed the various influences brought by Romans, Christianity and trade with Britain and Europe. The Vikings from Scandinavia conquered in the 9th century and the Norman French (through England and Wales) in the 12th century. All these migrants were themselves of course the result of their own ethnic influences. And this was before the English plantations of the 16th and 17th centuries. So there are many explanations for any sallow skinned, jet-black haired, dark-eyed, men and women. 2) There is a widespread belief that many Spanish sailors survived shipwrecks of the Armada and avoided being slaughtered when they came ashore. The historical evidence however goes the other way. It appears that most of the Spanish were drowned as their ships foundered on the coasts of Scotland and Ireland. The poor bastards were mostly in ships built for use in the Mediterranean; the Atlantic and the rocky west coasts proved fatal. They had not planned to return to Spain by this route and so they had no charts of the seas, the heavily indented coast and the myriad of islands. There were English garrisons on the mainland and the Spanish were of course the sworn enemy whose invasion had been feared and awaited for years. Not only was there a patriotic duty to slaughter the survivors but there was the promise of Spanish gold and valuables which the Armada had carried with them. Some romantics have assumed that the native Irish, being England's natural enemies, would have welcomed the Spanish and sheltered them. However here is an account by a Spanish captain who escaped back to Spain. He described the Irish as "savages [salvajes] who turned [the landing boat] up for the purpose of extracting nails or pieces of iron; and, breaking through the deck, they drew out the dead men...[whom] they stripped and took away the jewels and money which they had... The land and the shore were full of enemies who went about jumping and dancing with delight at our misfortunes; and when any one of our people reached the beach, two hundred savages and other enemies fell upon him and stripped him of what he had on until he was left in his naked skin. Such they maltreated and wounded without pity " There is evidence that six Spanish sailors survived in Donegal and later petitioned to be allowed to return to Spain. They claimed they were the only living survivors. Some others, maybe several hundred, escaped to Scotland. (Interestingly there is no corresponding myth of the "Black Scottish"!) There remains the completely different story of the "Black Irish" in the West Indies, in Montserrat and the Barbados. Banishment to the colonies was quite a common practise especially in the 17th century. But very little research seems to have been done on this and maybe, because many of those transported were priests who refused to renounce Rome, they had little affect on the population. Sorry to be so long-winded. Richard Callanan London England -----Original Message----- From: jean mccoy [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 19 February 2001 18:30 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL~CEMS] Black Irish Would someone mind explaining the term "Black Irish" to this Texan? Thanks, Jean [email protected] ==== IRELAND-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== Always send your replies back through the list. Other people may be looking for the same information and your answer will be stored in the archives for future researchers.

I would like to know if there are any cemeteries in Toouneeablaha? If so, how would I contact them. I am looking for William Thomas WEBB that was possibly buried there. thank you diana [email protected]

Hi: Perhaps I'm mistaken and I'm looking at any confirmation in front of me, however I've always been told that this term generated from the fact that perhaps centuries ago, the spanish landed in Ireland and there were marriages with the Irish women. The results were children with the darker complexion, and this continued on thru the following generations. That's been my interpretation of the term, however I'd encourage you to look for other explanations as well, from those who are more aware of the term. Good luck Anne

Whilst understanding the difficulties of Cemetery research in Ireland (have our problems here in Australia as well) I would be very appreciative of any information relating to the name GUERIN from Newmarket Co Clare and KINEVANE from Six Mile Bridge Co Clare up to c1850. Also RUANE from Parish of Kiltane in the Townland of Glencullen (near Ballina I believe) in Co Mayo. My grandfather JOHN RUANE left Ireland in the late 1890's. His Parents were PATRICK RUANE b.c1843 and BRIDGET HEALY. Thanks and any details at all would be greatly appreciated. Patricia in Western Australia

Would someone mind explaining the term "Black Irish" to this Texan? Thanks, Jean [email protected]

Hello Lister's Am new to this list. Has anyone come across or seen reference to the Reverend Robert Carbery... estimate death c1870..... He was living in the Cobh (Queenstown) area of Co. Cork. Hope this is not to much to ask. Bright Blessings [email protected]

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:27:17 -0800 From: Anne Gillen <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Thanks Phyllis - that one worked just fine. Appreciate the help.

Has anyone come acreoss any FALSEY inscriptions particularly in County Clare.It is such an unusual name that there won't be many. My great-great grandfather was Martin FALSEY.He married Mary MACNAMARA. Any information would be much appreciated. Thanking you Robin Middlebrook __________________________________________________ Advertise with ZFREE - to find out more click below http://www.zfree.co.nz/about-us/advert.html

Sorry that page would not come up but here is one that is very good for place names and ect http://www.tiara.ie/links.html This the corrected one sorry http://www.ireland.com/ancestor/

at http://www.irishplacenames.com/ Maureen this is a new site from the Irish Times newspaper that also gives you look up and where your surname is from Just type in the surname

Maureen, Most certainly Barringtonsbridge and Murroe (aka Moroe) are in the diocese of Cashel & Emly. Although I know where exactly Lisnagry is, I can't relate it to a parish RC or Civil, nor can I find it or Annacotty -which is just down the road from Lisnagry - on www.seanruad.com Regards, Padraig+ -----Original Message----- From: Maureen A.Maloney <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, February 15, 2001 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [IRL~CEMS] > >Padraig... >A question please...Would Barrington's Bridge, Murroe and Lisnargy be in >The East Limerick area...I know it >is not too far from the Tipperary line and wanted to be sure they aren't >included in the Tipperary records... >I had very good luck locating some of our family in Murroe where the parish >priest was very helpful..but then >again, our cousin was a good parishioneer!! ;-) > >Also...any idea which papers might have been around in the >1940's? According to legend my husbands ggrandmother >lived to be 103 years of age and I thought perhaps when she died it might >have been noted in a paper...We hope to >be over later this year and I wanted to check out the libraries or papers >to see if I could find exactly where she lived. > >Many thanks, > >Best wishes from cold and wintery Boston, > >Maureen Maloney > >At 12:25 PM 2/13/2001 -0500, Padraig O Gealagain wrote: >>Responses OUGHT to be posted to the List, so that all might benefit from the >>replies - Perhaps since you joined no one has any answers to the 16 queries >>you read. >> >>Regards, >> >>Padraig+ >> >> >>P.S. My Interest is East Limerick Graveyards ( including City >>cemeteries )of which I have a large collection. >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Deborah Scott <[email protected]> >>To: [email protected] <[email protected]> >>Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:55 AM >>Subject: [IRL~CEMS] >> >> >> >Hello Listers, >> > >> >I've been a subscriber for about a week and have received ~ 16 queries. >> >Oddly, I haven't seen any responses posted. Do members respond to the >> >individual only or are responses sent to all so that we can all benefit? >> >Perhaps no one has yet responded to these queries. Could someone please let >> >me know? I am asking because I am also a subscriber to a Welsh mailing list >> >and I receive responses to all queries. These responses sometimes help >>point >> >me in the right direction. >> > >> >Thanks to all. >> > >> >Regards, >> > >> >Deborah Scott >> > >> >Montreal >> > >> > >> >> >> >>==== IRELAND-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== >>Always send your replies back through the list. >>Other people may be looking for the same information and your >>answer will be stored in the archives for future researchers. > > >==== IRELAND-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== >Always send your replies back through the list. >Other people may be looking for the same information and your >answer will be stored in the archives for future researchers. > >

Has anyone come across any inscriptions in Co. Sligo for the name of JOHN GILLEN. Or anyone of the CONMY name. These would be my ggrandparents or their parents. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If nothing found, perhaps someone could lead me into a proper direction? Thank you for your time. Anne Gillen

Excellent list of useful sites - print and keep handy - J. Terry Ryan, President Ryan Clan Association, U.S. Sept, Inc. Web: http://www.ryans.org "Working to promote genealogy of the Ryan name and meeting more Ryans, especially, those in Ireland!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou & MJ" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 18 February 2001 02:06 Subject: Some useful sites > Some possibly helpful sites for Co. Tipperary researchers (extracted off the > list.) Note all were last checked on 18-02-01 6:03:26 AM Atlantic Standard > Time (UCT -4:00) : > > this link should get you to the information on both the R.C. and C of I > parishes: http://tipperary.local.ie/genealogy/ > > This link should take you to a rather colourful rendering of the R.C. > Parishes and shows the Deanery they are in. This site also has other useful > information on the Archdiocese of Cashel and Emly: > http://homepage.eircom.net/~cashelemly/mapdean.htm > > two sites that show the R.C. parishes are: > for the north of Co. Tipp > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irltip/images/tipn_par.gif > for the south of Co. Tipp > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irltip/images/tips_par.gif > and yet another Parish map at: > http://tipperary.local.ie/content/28543.shtml > > Perhaps this link will explain the difference between the Roman Catholic > Church and the Church of Ireland. > http://www.ireland.anglican.org/home.html > > Another potentially useful site is > http://www.nationalarchives.ie/govpapers.html > > Tony's efforts on a database are at: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~irishchurchrecords/index.html > Search Rootsweb's new Irish Church Records; Tipperary and Limerick > > > For a site with some Aussie connections try: > http://users.bigpond.net.au/convicts/page3.html > > On the "Black Irish" issue try: > http://www.darkfiber.com/blackirish/ > and related: > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/cultures/irish-faq/part08/section-10.html > > For passenger lists try: > http://www.genealogylinks.net/ > and: > http://istg.rootsweb.com/ > > To locate a townland in Ireland, check out The IreAtlas site at: > > http://www.seanruad.com/ > Guidelines on the site do not say you can enter part-words but you can. > Unlike the Irish Ancestor site you can not enter more than one group of > letters but there is no limit in the size of display. So you can enter > "Lough" and County "Tipperary" and get a list of 48 townlands with "lough" > in them. Widen the search by Province to "Munster" and the list increases to > 188. For the whole country the list becomes 780. > Looking for Loughnastay you might think "Loughinaska" in County Waterford > was worth a look. > If your interests are concentrated in particular parishes the IreAtlas site > allows you to display (and Print) ALL the townlands in any parish. In fact > if you had the inclination you can print out all the townland names in a > County! A list of 60,462 covers the whole country! > > Or: > > http://scripts.ireland.com/ancestor/placenames/index.cfm > allows you to enter up to three sets of letters in a search. So, for example > you can enter "kil" and "shee" and get: Killashee (2), Killnashee, and > Kilsheelan. If you get too many responses (which it will not display) you > can limit your search further by County. The skill comes in guessing which > letters in a given word may be misspelled! > > > Or this one: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~irish/ > > And for a 'Northern Flavour" try: > http://proni.nics.gov.uk/geogindx/townindx.htm > > > For some this Irish History site may be helpful: > http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/~jdana/irehist.html > > > If you know the date and place of birth, you can get a birth certificate at > the Irish Government office called: > The General Register Office > Joyce House > 8-11 Lombard St. E. > Dublin 2 > Tel. (01) 671 1000. > Open 9:30 am 12:30 pm., 2:15 pm - 4:30 pm. > You need to check their website which indicates prices can be found at the > following address: > > http://www.groireland.ie/fees.htm > > Cemetery Information Sites: > > You might want to try this address for headstone transcriptions in the > general Ballylooby/Clogheen area > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Forest/7956/ > > The Portlaw N.S., Co. Waterford, website is delightful. > Besides history of the area, there are graveyard transcriptions, etc. > The graveyard transcriptions can be found at: > http://homepage.tinet.ie/~portlawns/Pages/Graveyard.htm > Check out the "Site Contents" for a full listing of the subject matters. > Discovery Series Maps: > > Two USA sites that carry the Discovery series (1:50000, about 1 and a > quarter inches to a mile) are: > > http://www.globecorner.com/s/209.html > or > www.omnimap.com > The Omnimap.com site has an index map of the Discovery series so you can > select before you buy > > http://www.omnimap.com/cgi-bin/omni/graphic.pl?images/ind-for/ire-50.jpg > > If your browser doesn't like that long URL try the main site and search out > the directions to "Ireland and Northern Ireland 1:50,000 Index" > > Valuation Office Ireland > Irish Life Centre > Abbey Street Lower, > Dublin 1 > > Tel: +353-1-817 1000 > Fax: +353-1-817 1180 > Local: 1-890-304-444 > > website: > > http://www.valoff.ie/index.htm > > The Convict Transport Records at > http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search01.html > > > > from Maureen's Family Trees. The address is > http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/mmurphy/resource.htm > She lists the Civil Registration of Births Ireland Mostly Tipperary for the > 1860's. Lots of names. > > > a site that lists all the surnames of the English that received lands > through Cromwell in the period 1642 - 1646. It is located at > www.exis.net/ahd/monaghan/advntrs.htm > > Convict data > http://www.pcug.org.au/~ppmay/convicts.htm > > > For information on the Griffith's Valuation, please go to > http://www.cmcrp.net/Tipperary/index.html > > For a variety of genealogy sources, check out the Ryan Clan Assoc. website > at: > http://www.ryans.org > > Want to help needy children in Ireland?? Check out web page: > http://www.ryans.org/childrenofireland/Index.htm > > REGISTRATION DISTRICTS OF IRELAND" > you can start at Tony's genealogy page and use the link, > http://www.geocities.com/triordan.geo/gene1.html > > This is a great > Thurles site. > http://homepage.tinet.ie/~jjcondon > > Commonwealth War Graves Commission at http://www.cwgc.org/ > > > Rootsweb United Kingdom and Ireland Records > http://userdb.rootsweb.com/uki/ > > Lists for counties of Ireland > Check them out at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwgw/counties.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CoTipperary Mailing List ==== > HELPFUL HINT: For passenger lists try: > http://www.genealogylinks.net/ > and: http://istg.rootsweb.com/ > > >

Attempting to find gravesite for Edward Heatley who past away prior to 1881, was married to ELLEN Carr HEATLEY, widow, 50, found in 1881 census Everton, Lancashire, England who had moved from her place of birth, Ireland. Bill

Phyllis, you are absolutely right. Neither one of these sites is available; correct form, wrong substance. Sorry.

I believe you meant to say: www.interment.net/ireland/donegal and NOT internet.net -- James C. "Jim" Keel Professional Photography & Video http://www.jameskeelphoto.com

I am looking for Dinsmores (Dunsmore, Dinsmoor, Dunsmoor), buried in County Donegal. I am new to this list and would appreciate any information or suggestions as to how to proceed. Thank You, KL Dinsmore

For those who may not know of this one ....... http://www.interment.net/ This is a site where you are able to add any transcriptions you may have to share. When at the site, choose "Add to the Library" from the menu on the left to obtain more information. Sherri

I would love to know how many cemeteries there are in MOURNE. cheers Anne of USA

I apologise to the listowner for making a post re viruses - however, I did not see the original post which is forwarded here and the original post seems to imply that it is me who is responsible for spreading a virus through this rootsweb mail list. I would like to clear myself of any responsibility which people may decide I have because of the original post from 'diane & dave' Rootsweb has set up their mailing lists so that no attachments may get through..........many viruses are passed in attachment form.......someone gets a message from someone else with an 'You have to see this' or something like that in the subject line and there is an attachment to the mail and the innocent recipient opens the attachment......... Once you do that - then zip - the virus is into your system The current 'worst' viruses on the go are the Snow White and the 'anna kournikova worm' . Snow White lands in to your mailbox as being from someone called 'HAHAHA' with an attachment - delete this, the subject line is then something to do with Snow White. I'm not too sure what Anna's e mail sender is listed as - however it reads do you want to see a pic of Anna - or along those lines. The various anti virus companies or whwatever one wants to call them are busy investigating this one. It has only hit the net in the last day or so. There are also many other computer viruses You will never receive a virus so long as it arrives in attachment form from any rootsweb mailing list - this is just not possible. However, your name and address may possibly be in the address book of a person who you may have mailed re something or other - personally - and again this can be vice versa - and you or this person may open one of these attachments and then these viruses/worms operate by immediately sending themselves as a similar email to the one which you received - to every single person in your address book. It is advisable that anyone who has a computer has a decent anti-virus programme on their computer. I run Norton 2001, I update daily from the Norton website in order to make sure that I know which viruses are about - I receive a Virus newsletter. I never open an attachment, unless I know the sender, have saved the attachment to a floppy disc, have checked it using my virus checker and see nothing in it's name to make me wonder if it could be any of the current viruses. I delete all mail which comes in to me which I have any suspicions about - whether it has an attachment or not. Having said all that, I would like to inform the sender of the original mail here - 'diane and dave' if they are still subscribed to this list that they themselves have opened something they shouldn't really have. Anyone who clicks on this 'free video' ad in this mail - or the original, will not do any damage to their computer - *but* when they send a mail from now on the 'free video' ad will also appear in their mail. It will not show up on their sent mails as in their sent folder if you run Microsoft but it will be on each and every mail all the same. I actually forget how to get rid of it - it puts itself into your signature section in your mailer, and if you can find your way there and delete it then you will be rid of it. It's only an ad - does no harm as such - more annoying once you realise that it's there than anything else. I can only say that I personally take as many precautions as I can re viruses, and whatever else is out there on the net. No one can be 100% sure of anything in this life........but I don't think that there is any way I have been responsible for the spreading of any of the known viruses. I have made a mistake in the past and once bitten twice shy. If you want to find out something about viruses, then take a look at www.macafee.com or www.norton.com I may have spelled the first incorrectly, but both of these sites will give info on what is known to be about and Macafee run an online virus checker which is free and will check your system for any of the known viruses and tell you how to clear it if it is possible. Jane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb & Wally Goins" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [IRL~CEMS] The thing about Irish Graveyards.......... > What virus? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: diane and dave <[email protected]> > To: Barb & Wally Goins <[email protected]> > Sent: 13 February, 2001 9:59 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL~CEMS] The thing about Irish Graveyards.......... > > > > VIRUS ALERT GET OUT OF THIS I AM GETTING OUT AND BLOCKING ALL SENDERS.... > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > Click here for Free Video!! > > http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Barb & Wally Goins" <[email protected]>