A chara Pale was first used in Ireland in 1495 to denote the fortified lowland region around Dublin that was subject to English rule. A locally paid and recruited force defended the Pale community from the 1470's until the mid 1530's. Re the 1366 Statutes of Kilkenny: They were largely ineffectual and, by the 1500's, wide- ranging control was exercised by the Norman Earl of Kildare, (Gearoid Mor). Welsh Normans first arrived in 1169 in Wexford and then Waterford in 1170. Ties were solidified w/ the marriage of Dermot's daughter to Strongbow Coincidentally it was nearly 750 years later (March 1922) that Portlairge was claimed for the Irish nation. An action generally not received warmly by the Redmondite inhabitants of Urbs Intacta. Slan agus beannacht On 3/18/09 2:58 PM, "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: > SNIPPET: The term "beyond the Pale" has its origins in 14th century Ireland > in the Statutes of Kilkenny. These laws established a sweeping series of > prohibitions against fraternization between Anglo-Irish colonizers and the > native Irish. They also defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement > (pale comes from the Latin word Palus or fence post) a narrow strip of land, > little more than 20 miles wide in most places, running north from Waterford > to Dundalk on Ireland's eastern coast. Those living "beyond the pale" were > considered "Irish enemies" not entitled to protection under English law. > > The Anglo-Normans who had arrived in the 1200s had rapidly became > Anglo-Irish, intermarrying with the native Irish and had taken on their > language, dress and customs. This was part of a larger revival of Irish > culture in this period known as the Gaelic Recovery. Events such as the > Black Death (an epidemic of bubonic and pneumonic plague that spread rapidly > from Asia to Europe in the 1340s, arriving in the British Isles in the > summer of 1348, with resultant massive loss of life and social disorder) had > crippled the English economy, sharply limiting the Crown's ability to > intervene in Ireland. > > The development of Irish identity among the colonizing families in Ireland > had caused great concern to the British Crown. To reverse this trend, the > British viceroy in Ireland pushed through the Irish Parliament the Statutes > of Kilkenny in 1366. Its preamble summed up the problem of British conquest: > > "Now many English of the said land, forsaking the English language, fashion, > mode of riding, laws and usages, live and govern themselves according to the > manners, fashion, and the language of the Irish enemies, and also having > made divers marriages and alliances between themselves and the Irish enemies > aforesaid ... the English language, the allegiance due to our Lord the King > and the English laws there are put in subjection and decayed, and the Irish > enemies exalted and raised up, contrary to right." > > The Statutes explicitly forbade intermarriage between the Irish and the > Anglo-Irish colonizers. The latter were prohibited from speaking the Irish > language in conducting political, legal, or business affairs. They were also > forbidden to wear Irish clothing, ride on Irish saddles, employ Irish poets > or minstrels, use Irish greetings, or play hurling. The Statutes also > defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement, the above-mentioned > narrow strip of land. According to the Statutes, those living outside the > Pale were henceforth considered "Irish enemies," and those inside > "obedient." > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

Ay you all seem to know alot about irish history ,maybe if i have not asked before i need to find my grt grt grandad James McCabe born 1851 limerick ireland i have asked so many folks who have been so helpfull to me and i could not thank them enough,i am getting exhausted every were i look ,,Thanks Sylvia Ivan Lennon wrote: > A chara > > Pale was first used in Ireland in 1495 to denote the fortified lowland > region around Dublin that was subject to English rule. A locally paid and > recruited force defended the Pale community from the 1470's > until the mid 1530's. > > Re the 1366 Statutes of Kilkenny: They were largely ineffectual and, by the > 1500's, wide- ranging control was exercised by the Norman Earl of Kildare, > (Gearoid Mor). > > Welsh Normans first arrived in 1169 in Wexford and then Waterford in 1170. > Ties were solidified w/ the marriage of Dermot's daughter to Strongbow > > Coincidentally it was nearly 750 years later (March 1922) that Portlairge > was claimed for the Irish nation. An action generally not received warmly > by the Redmondite inhabitants of Urbs Intacta. > > > Slan agus beannacht > > > > > On 3/18/09 2:58 PM, "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: > > >> SNIPPET: The term "beyond the Pale" has its origins in 14th century Ireland >> in the Statutes of Kilkenny. These laws established a sweeping series of >> prohibitions against fraternization between Anglo-Irish colonizers and the >> native Irish. They also defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement >> (pale comes from the Latin word Palus or fence post) a narrow strip of land, >> little more than 20 miles wide in most places, running north from Waterford >> to Dundalk on Ireland's eastern coast. Those living "beyond the pale" were >> considered "Irish enemies" not entitled to protection under English law. >> >> The Anglo-Normans who had arrived in the 1200s had rapidly became >> Anglo-Irish, intermarrying with the native Irish and had taken on their >> language, dress and customs. This was part of a larger revival of Irish >> culture in this period known as the Gaelic Recovery. Events such as the >> Black Death (an epidemic of bubonic and pneumonic plague that spread rapidly >> from Asia to Europe in the 1340s, arriving in the British Isles in the >> summer of 1348, with resultant massive loss of life and social disorder) had >> crippled the English economy, sharply limiting the Crown's ability to >> intervene in Ireland. >> >> The development of Irish identity among the colonizing families in Ireland >> had caused great concern to the British Crown. To reverse this trend, the >> British viceroy in Ireland pushed through the Irish Parliament the Statutes >> of Kilkenny in 1366. Its preamble summed up the problem of British conquest: >> >> "Now many English of the said land, forsaking the English language, fashion, >> mode of riding, laws and usages, live and govern themselves according to the >> manners, fashion, and the language of the Irish enemies, and also having >> made divers marriages and alliances between themselves and the Irish enemies >> aforesaid ... the English language, the allegiance due to our Lord the King >> and the English laws there are put in subjection and decayed, and the Irish >> enemies exalted and raised up, contrary to right." >> >> The Statutes explicitly forbade intermarriage between the Irish and the >> Anglo-Irish colonizers. The latter were prohibited from speaking the Irish >> language in conducting political, legal, or business affairs. They were also >> forbidden to wear Irish clothing, ride on Irish saddles, employ Irish poets >> or minstrels, use Irish greetings, or play hurling. The Statutes also >> defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement, the above-mentioned >> narrow strip of land. According to the Statutes, those living outside the >> Pale were henceforth considered "Irish enemies," and those inside >> "obedient." >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >> the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Interesting History Ivan. When you mention the Norman Earl of Kildare, Georoid Mor, would this person be connected to the FitzGerald Clan? Also who were the Redmondites? Just a thought..... as my g/g/grandfather was Timothy Fitzgerald b.1784 and his father was called Redmond Fitzgerald. I am doing the family history of this family but cannot find any history of him or his daughter, my g/grandmother, when they were in Ireland,,,,Mary Ann, b.1837, Ireland ,who married Thomas Hooley in Swansea in 1857, . Looking for links to counties I should search. I have all their history in Wales. I have been told that the Fitzgerald Family go back to 910 AD when they were known as the Geraldinos/Gheradinos, who owned a large peice of Florence, migrating to France, then coming across during the Norman Invasion and settling in Wales and Ireland. Trying to link my lot with one of these ancestors. Thanks for the interesting email, Kind regards, Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivan Lennon" <ilennon@rochester.rr.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:49 AM Subject: [IRELAND] The Pale/ Kilkenny > > A chara > > Pale was first used in Ireland in 1495 to denote the fortified lowland > region around Dublin that was subject to English rule. A locally paid and > recruited force defended the Pale community from the 1470's > until the mid 1530's. > > Re the 1366 Statutes of Kilkenny: They were largely ineffectual and, by > the > 1500's, wide- ranging control was exercised by the Norman Earl of > Kildare, > (Gearoid Mor). > > Welsh Normans first arrived in 1169 in Wexford and then Waterford in 1170. > Ties were solidified w/ the marriage of Dermot's daughter to Strongbow > > Coincidentally it was nearly 750 years later (March 1922) that Portlairge > was claimed for the Irish nation. An action generally not received warmly > by the Redmondite inhabitants of Urbs Intacta. > > > Slan agus beannacht > > > > > On 3/18/09 2:58 PM, "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: > >> SNIPPET: The term "beyond the Pale" has its origins in 14th century >> Ireland >> in the Statutes of Kilkenny. These laws established a sweeping series of >> prohibitions against fraternization between Anglo-Irish colonizers and >> the >> native Irish. They also defined what became known as the Pale of >> Settlement >> (pale comes from the Latin word Palus or fence post) a narrow strip of >> land, >> little more than 20 miles wide in most places, running north from >> Waterford >> to Dundalk on Ireland's eastern coast. Those living "beyond the pale" >> were >> considered "Irish enemies" not entitled to protection under English law. >> >> The Anglo-Normans who had arrived in the 1200s had rapidly became >> Anglo-Irish, intermarrying with the native Irish and had taken on their >> language, dress and customs. This was part of a larger revival of Irish >> culture in this period known as the Gaelic Recovery. Events such as the >> Black Death (an epidemic of bubonic and pneumonic plague that spread >> rapidly >> from Asia to Europe in the 1340s, arriving in the British Isles in the >> summer of 1348, with resultant massive loss of life and social disorder) >> had >> crippled the English economy, sharply limiting the Crown's ability to >> intervene in Ireland. >> >> The development of Irish identity among the colonizing families in >> Ireland >> had caused great concern to the British Crown. To reverse this trend, the >> British viceroy in Ireland pushed through the Irish Parliament the >> Statutes >> of Kilkenny in 1366. Its preamble summed up the problem of British >> conquest: >> >> "Now many English of the said land, forsaking the English language, >> fashion, >> mode of riding, laws and usages, live and govern themselves according to >> the >> manners, fashion, and the language of the Irish enemies, and also having >> made divers marriages and alliances between themselves and the Irish >> enemies >> aforesaid ... the English language, the allegiance due to our Lord the >> King >> and the English laws there are put in subjection and decayed, and the >> Irish >> enemies exalted and raised up, contrary to right." >> >> The Statutes explicitly forbade intermarriage between the Irish and the >> Anglo-Irish colonizers. The latter were prohibited from speaking the >> Irish >> language in conducting political, legal, or business affairs. They were >> also >> forbidden to wear Irish clothing, ride on Irish saddles, employ Irish >> poets >> or minstrels, use Irish greetings, or play hurling. The Statutes also >> defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement, the above-mentioned >> narrow strip of land. According to the Statutes, those living outside the >> Pale were henceforth considered "Irish enemies," and those inside >> "obedient." >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in >> the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Gerald More Fitzgerald Redmondites: Followers of John Redmond, who succeeded Parnell as Irish Party (Constitutional Nationalists - Home Rulers) ) Leader in British Parliament Opposed by the physical force Republicans( I.R.B. and later Sinn Fein) Irish political parties (FF and FG) to this day reflect this dichotomy based on support of or opposition to the Anglo Irish Treaty agreed to by Mick Collins and accepted in January of 1922 by the Irish Dail - Which led to Civil War in June of 1922. Best bets for Norman origins is Wexford and Waterford where they landed in 1169 -1170. Plus Fitzgeralds in Co. Kildare I believe Plus Leinster House, Dublin once owned by the Fitzgeralds. Unfortunately no civil records until 1864 plus only 2 censi - 1911 and 1921 All others destroyed Good luck Ivan On 3/18/09 11:19 PM, "Mary Mizzi" <mmizzi@dodo.com.au> wrote: > Interesting History Ivan. When you mention the Norman Earl of Kildare, > Georoid Mor, would this person be connected to the FitzGerald Clan? Also > who were the Redmondites? > Just a thought..... as my g/g/grandfather was Timothy Fitzgerald b.1784 and > his father was called Redmond Fitzgerald. I am doing the family history of > this family but cannot find any history of him or his daughter, my > g/grandmother, when they were in Ireland,,,,Mary Ann, b.1837, Ireland ,who > married Thomas Hooley in Swansea in 1857, . Looking for links to counties I > should search. I have all their history in Wales. > I have been told that the Fitzgerald Family go back to 910 AD when they were > known as the Geraldinos/Gheradinos, who owned a large peice of Florence, > migrating to France, then coming across during the Norman Invasion and > settling in Wales and Ireland. Trying to link my lot with one of these > ancestors. > > Thanks for the interesting email, > Kind regards, > > Mary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ivan Lennon" <ilennon@rochester.rr.com> > To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:49 AM > Subject: [IRELAND] The Pale/ Kilkenny > > >> >> A chara >> >> Pale was first used in Ireland in 1495 to denote the fortified lowland >> region around Dublin that was subject to English rule. A locally paid and >> recruited force defended the Pale community from the 1470's >> until the mid 1530's. >> >> Re the 1366 Statutes of Kilkenny: They were largely ineffectual and, by >> the >> 1500's, wide- ranging control was exercised by the Norman Earl of >> Kildare, >> (Gearoid Mor). >> >> Welsh Normans first arrived in 1169 in Wexford and then Waterford in 1170. >> Ties were solidified w/ the marriage of Dermot's daughter to Strongbow >> >> Coincidentally it was nearly 750 years later (March 1922) that Portlairge >> was claimed for the Irish nation. An action generally not received warmly >> by the Redmondite inhabitants of Urbs Intacta. >> >> >> Slan agus beannacht >> >> >> >> >> On 3/18/09 2:58 PM, "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: >> >>> SNIPPET: The term "beyond the Pale" has its origins in 14th century >>> Ireland >>> in the Statutes of Kilkenny. These laws established a sweeping series of >>> prohibitions against fraternization between Anglo-Irish colonizers and >>> the >>> native Irish. They also defined what became known as the Pale of >>> Settlement >>> (pale comes from the Latin word Palus or fence post) a narrow strip of >>> land, >>> little more than 20 miles wide in most places, running north from >>> Waterford >>> to Dundalk on Ireland's eastern coast. Those living "beyond the pale" >>> were >>> considered "Irish enemies" not entitled to protection under English law. >>> >>> The Anglo-Normans who had arrived in the 1200s had rapidly became >>> Anglo-Irish, intermarrying with the native Irish and had taken on their >>> language, dress and customs. This was part of a larger revival of Irish >>> culture in this period known as the Gaelic Recovery. Events such as the >>> Black Death (an epidemic of bubonic and pneumonic plague that spread >>> rapidly >>> from Asia to Europe in the 1340s, arriving in the British Isles in the >>> summer of 1348, with resultant massive loss of life and social disorder) >>> had >>> crippled the English economy, sharply limiting the Crown's ability to >>> intervene in Ireland. >>> >>> The development of Irish identity among the colonizing families in >>> Ireland >>> had caused great concern to the British Crown. To reverse this trend, the >>> British viceroy in Ireland pushed through the Irish Parliament the >>> Statutes >>> of Kilkenny in 1366. Its preamble summed up the problem of British >>> conquest: >>> >>> "Now many English of the said land, forsaking the English language, >>> fashion, >>> mode of riding, laws and usages, live and govern themselves according to >>> the >>> manners, fashion, and the language of the Irish enemies, and also having >>> made divers marriages and alliances between themselves and the Irish >>> enemies >>> aforesaid ... the English language, the allegiance due to our Lord the >>> King >>> and the English laws there are put in subjection and decayed, and the >>> Irish >>> enemies exalted and raised up, contrary to right." >>> >>> The Statutes explicitly forbade intermarriage between the Irish and the >>> Anglo-Irish colonizers. The latter were prohibited from speaking the >>> Irish >>> language in conducting political, legal, or business affairs. They were >>> also >>> forbidden to wear Irish clothing, ride on Irish saddles, employ Irish >>> poets >>> or minstrels, use Irish greetings, or play hurling. The Statutes also >>> defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement, the above-mentioned >>> narrow strip of land. According to the Statutes, those living outside the >>> Pale were henceforth considered "Irish enemies," and those inside >>> "obedient." >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in >>> the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message