My O'Brien family might have come from Duneriel, County Cork. What can I find on line??? Dennis

Townland AKA Acres County Barony Civil Parish PLU Province DONERAILE T. xx Cork, E.R. Fermoy Doneraile Mallow Munster Hi Dennis -- You can check out some other townlands for Co. Cork on the all-Ireland IreAtlas search engine at the L-R website. You can "google" Leitrim-Roscommon or try http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/index.shtml Set the IreAtlas to Cork and do a "begins with" search by justing typing the letter D. You will get back about 400 hits. Doneraile sounds phonetically pretty close to your spelling. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: <den49co@aol.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:14 PM Subject: [IRELAND] Duneriel, County Cork > My O'Brien family might have come from Duneriel, County Cork. > > What can I find on line??? > > Dennis >

Hi Carole - Mr. Pat LAVIN (whose ancestors were in Co. Roscommon) has a detailed manuscript re the history of the surname LAVIN in Ireland on a webpage at the Leitrim-Roscommon website http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/index.shtml In part - Per Pat L.'s research: "Another interesting observation from Griffith* the variant spelling of the name. In Roscommon most registrants identified with the 'Lavin' spelling; few with 'Lavan' and fewer still with 'Laven.' In Mayo, by contrast, most of the registrants identified with the 'Lavan' spelling; few with Lavin and still fewer with Laven. **Two oddities -- Lavvan and Larvan -- are also listed for Mayo.** In Sligo the 'Lavin' variant is used three to one over 'Lavan.'" My note: *I believe the reference to Griffith likely refers to findings on the mid-1850s Griffith's Valuation, and you might want to go back and more carefully read the entire history. That website has a lot of good information on several Irish counties, including Co. Mayo, and an all-Ireland IreAtlas townland search engine. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carole Mason" <caroleamason@hotmail.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:55 AM Subject: [IRELAND] Thomas Larvin Carole wrote: "I am new to the list and am researching my husband's family of LARVIN's ..." <snip>

Hi, Carole in France -- Acknowledging that there are some LARVINs in the world, perhaps the original name long ago was Lavin? I've also seen Larkin, Larkan, Lorcan, Lever in Ireland. "Googling" briefly, I found some reference to Larvin and Co. Mayo by one researcher. Which censuses (country) have you found him on? Any idea of a wife's maiden ("nee") surname or children's names, which can sometimes provide a clue? Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carole Mason" <caroleamason@hotmail.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:55 AM Subject: [IRELAND] Thomas Larvin > I am new to the list and am researching my husband's family of LARVIN's. > I have gone back to the 1871 census and find that Thomas Larvin was born > in 1825 (circa) and was born in Ireland. > > > I have no idea how to do research in Ireland. Could anyone help please. > > > > Thank you > > > > Carole Mason > > Now living in France

Hi Judith - What a small world! On my search for DIAMOND individuals the other day, I made note of an individual whose very unusual name caught my eye on the 1911 UK (England & Wales) free search engine.census at http://www.1911census.co.uk:80/ Napoleon DIAMOND, age 36, born 1891, Lancs., living in Wigan. One of yours? You can check and see if my notepad "scribbles" are correct. There were DIAMOND, DIMOND and DYMOND individuals on that 1911 census living in England, some in Wigan. Just looking at DIAMONDs, I found many individuals "born in Ireland," but also some who recorded a specific place of birth: Antrim, Dublin, Mayo, Wexford, Londonderry, Derry, Kilkenny, Down, Longford, Cavan, Tipperary, Cork, Waterford, Meath. There might be more with a misspelling of a county. For example, I found some individuals (with other surnames) who were born in "Lietrim" instead of Leitrim. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: <JuRothwell@aol.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:05 PM Subject: [IRELAND] DIAMOND,KIERAN,BURRUS > Hi Jean, > Thanks again for the full reply and the addendum. You wrote: You mentioned unusual names of the well-to-do. <snip>

Hi Jean, Thanks again for the full reply and the addendum. According to the info. I have Philip, was baptised in St Anne's Shankill Church of Ireland in 1772, but on his marriage to Charlotte Kieran in 1795 in Dundalk Co. Louth, he is RC, as is Charlotte. The family remained RC. Philip was a nankeen weaver so I suppose that's why they chose WIGAN. They lived around Hardy Butts and St John Street where many Irish lived. I'm sure Edward is mine. He went on to marry Jane PORTER and was present when his father died of cholera in 1849. A PATRICK DIAMOND, living at the same address, had also died the previous day. Though they were all weavers, I have found Patrick in army records. I'm assuming he is a brother or cousin of Edward and my geat grandfather James but haven't gone into that yet (so much to do!!) I need to look more into Margaret. At one point I thought she could be Patrick's daughter but have nothing yet to go on. You mentioned unusual names of the well-to-do. Mine were not, but how's this for names? James and his wife ANN ELLISON called their children NAPOLEON, JOSEPHINE, HANNIBAL, CONSTANTINE (my grandfather), JULIUS CAESAR, as well as the more usual CHARLOTTE, LOUISA, ELLEN and ELIZABETH. The names Hannibal, Napoleon, Julius Caesar and Constantine were carried on in later generations. I also have a case of the sister, Elizabeth MCCANN widowed with 5 children, marrying Louisa KELLY who died in child birth.I met 'cousins' from that side of the family last year. One is called CONSTANCE after her father! And my own son is called Philip, though he was born long before I knew about Philip, my Irish weaver. Thanks again for your help Judith Cambs

Addendum: Me again, Judith -- I didn't do such a good job on my last note -- here are some corrections: The 1911 census for Wigan has many DIAMOND individuals born in England, maybe you can spot some of yours. As well - A Thomas DIAMOND, born 1887, in Ireland, age 24 in 1911, was living in an institution in Wigan, Lancashire. A James DIAMOND, born 1876 in Ireland was 35 on that census, also living in Wigan. (You could check and see if my scribbled notes from a few days ago are correct on the search engine at www.1911census.co.uk ) It would be interesting to find why some of these "born in Ireland" men were living in Wigan, wouldn't it. You could try playing around with the search engine, put in a name of an Irish county rather than just Ireland. Listers may have other ideas. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Re posting query: DIAMOND, KEIRAN, BURRIS

IRISH PROVINCES LEINSTER: Cos. Carlow, Dublin, Kildare, Kilkenny, Laois (Leix/Queen's Co), Longford, Louth, Meath, Offaly (King's Co.), Westmeath, Wexford and Wicklow. MUNSTER: Cos. Clare, Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Tipperary and Waterford. ULSTER: Divided in two sections -- (1) Northern Ireland with Cos. Antrim, Armagh, Derry/Londonderry, Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone. (2) Republic of Ireland with Cos. Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan. CONNAUGHT: Cos. Galway, Leitrim, Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo.

FYI - Interesting-sounding 2007 book - On the night of November 2, 1847, the Anglo-Irish landowner Major Denis Mahon was murdered by unknown assailants while driving a horse-drawn carriage on his property in County Roscommon, located in Ireland's lush inland section known as the Midlands. The killing, which has been linked over the years to both starving and disgruntled tenants and to a radical band of agrarian terrorists known as the Molly Maguires, is itself inextricably linked to one of history's greatest tragedies: the Irish potato famine and the deadly year known infamously throughout the world as Black '47. In The Killing of Major Denis Mahon, historian Peter Duffy excavates both the crime and the centuries of myth that have settled upon it, revealing the complex and fascinating ties between England's treatment of the Irish and the often unforgiving forces of the natural world, particularly the Phytophthora infestans water mold and its attacks on the Irish potato plant, the peasantry's primary food supply. The Mahon killing, Duffy writes, is significant because "its narrative contains the story of the Famine," from the failure of the staple food crop and the failures of government relief, to the brutal removal of tenants unable to pay their rents and the mounting anger against the landlord class deemed responsible for such misery and privation. Consider just one fact among the many that Duffy has marshaled: At the time of the November 1847 murder, Mahon's estate in Strokestown had dislodged 3,000 of its 12,000 poor and starving tenants, the very dispossessed Irish who were fleeing in desperation to America by the tens and then hundreds of thousands. "In conducting a full examination of the most celebrated death of the era," Duffy notes, "it is therefore necessary to tell the entire contentious tale of the Great Hunger itself." Drawing on his extensive research among both English and Irish archives, Duffy does precisely that, narrating the crime and its aftermath while drawing a detailed portrait of the Famine and its terrible effects on Anglo-Irish life and politics. An expertly written and richly engrossing study of imperialism, murder, and man-made disaster, The Killing of Major Denis Mahon places one of the 19th century's most explosive crimes in the context of the horrifying tragedy that did so much to create it.

Hello All, I am re posting this query again in the hope that someone can help with suggestions. I am new to the list and have finally found information about my Irish anceststors. I am planning a trip to Northern Ireland this May and would like advice on the best course of action to confirm what information I have and to add to it. My great gradfather was JAMES DIAMOND born in WIGAN, LANCS c.1821 On the 1841 census he is Aged 20 and living in WIGAN with PHILIP DIAMOND Aged 80 born in IRELAND CHARLOTTE DIAMOND Aged 70 born in IRELAND EDWARD DIAMOND Aged 25 born in IRELAND EDWARD McDONALD Aged 20 born in IRELAND MARGARET DIAMOND Aged 9 born in LANCS In 1849 James married ANN ELLISON in the Parish Church in Wigan. On the marriage cert. it states that James' father was called PHILIP and was a weaver. Information from the Irish records shows a PHILIP DIAMOND was born c.1764 in MILL STREET, SHANKILL, Co. ANTRIM and was baptised 7th May 1772 at ST. ANNE'S SHANKILL. His parents were PHILIP DIAMOND & ELIZABETH BURRUS. Philip then went on to marry CHARLOTTE KIERAN in DUNDALK RC Church on 19th I Dec. 1795 with witnesses PATT McDONNEL and NIC DEARY. I have several queries which I hope someone will be able to help me with. 1. Why the long gap between Philip's birth and Baptism? 2. Philip and Charlotte seem rather old to be James' parents. They would have been married for 20 years even before Edward was born. Could they be their grandparents? If so - where are the parents? and where does Margaret fit into the family? 3. Could Edward McDonald be related to the witness Patt McDonnel? Any suggestions would be most gratefully received. Regards Judith (nee Diamond) Cambs.

Hi Judith - DIAMOND, a lovely surname, I've always been fascinated by it. If I am not mistaken, the surname has connections to Co. Londonderry/Derry back in the midst's of time. Hope you have a marvelous time on your trip and that you'll share your adventures! Keep in mind that the farther you go back, the more difficult it is to pinpoint a particular line as "your own, unless they were a very prominent family and can be traced in the literature. What street address or area or church do you have for KNOWN members of your family based on later Wigan, Lancs. census? What religion did they practice? The given names of the children sound Protestant although KEIRAN and KIERAN seem (to me, anyway) more Catholic. What sort of employment did your KNOWN family take? I would suggest trying to find some information on where your particular family lived in Ireland from Wigan resources - wills, death notices, etc. - and try to work backwards from there. Later kin would have left some documents. If they were well-to-do, perhaps you can come up with a family will or two. If you feel certain that this is your family, Edward DIAMOND might have lived another 40 years; if he stayed put, address-wise, you might be able to trace him. If you had a married name for Margaret, you might be able to find out something more on her on some sort of document. Has your family lore brought up a particular county in Ulster, or any mention of (Dundalk) Co. Louth, in the Province of Leinster? You might want to change your subject line or your post in future responses as it wasn't clear whether you were researching KEIRAN or KIERAN. Also keep in mind that a variation of DIAMOND is DIMOND in your researching, and misspellings often occurred, even so, unless you had a very well-educated family. Irish often married someone else when their spouse died - sometimes a related family member, a sister of the decease, let's say. Similarly, a family would likely take in orphaned related children and perhaps those of neighbors. Your KNOWN ancestors in Wigan may have had others join them from Ireland, have you looked around on a later census to see if they have neighbors with the DIAMOND surname? The 1911 census for Wigan has many DIAMOND individuals born in England, maybe you can spot some of yours. A Thomas DIAMOND, born 1887, age 24 in 1911, was living in an institution in Wigan, Lancashire. A James Diamond, born 1876 was 35 on that census, also living in Wigan. You could check and see if my scribbled notes from a few days ago are correct on the search engine at (You might want to change your subject line or your post in future responses as it wasn't clear whether you were researching KEIRAN or KIERAN, a variation of each other found on records. Also keep in mind that a variation of DIAMOND is DIMOND in your researching, and misspellings often occurred, even so, unless you had a very well-educated family. Most of those families gave their children middle names. Names were repeated generation after generation. Quite often an "unusual" given first or middle name of a well-to-do son is actually mother's maiden ("nee") surname or another surname of importance to the family. What sort of industries did they have in Wigan through the years that might attract well-off individuals or employ poor families leaving Ireland? http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/ A resource for surnames found in Ireland during the Primary Valuation (1848-64). You can also click on a county on the interactive map there to find out what resources are available for researching for particular counties. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: <JuRothwell@aol.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:49 AM Subject: [IRELAND] Re posting query .DIAMOND, KEIRAN, BURRIS > > Hello All, > I am re posting this query again in the hope that someone can help with > suggestions. > I am new to the list and have finally found information about my Irish > anceststors. I am planning a trip to Northern Ireland this May and would > like > advice on the best course of action to confirm what information I have > and to > add to it. <snip>

LIFE LIFE, believe, is not a dream So dark as sages say; Oft a little morning rain Foretells a pleasant day. Sometimes there are clouds of gloom, But these are transient all; If the shower will make the roses bloom, O why lament its fall ? Rapidly, merrily, Life's sunny hours flit by, Gratefully, cheerily, Enjoy them as they fly ! What though Death at times steps in And calls our Best away ? What though sorrow seems to win, O'er hope, a heavy sway ? Yet hope again elastic springs, Unconquered, though she fell; Still buoyant are her golden wings, Still strong to bear us well. Manfully, fearlessly, The day of trial bear, For gloriously, victoriously, Can courage quell despair ! Charlotte Bronte BRONTE is the family name of three sisters who became famous novelists - Charlotte, Emily and Anne. Their lives and works are associated with the lonely moors of Yorkshire, England, where they were born Their brother Branwell painted a lovely portrait of his sisters. Their father, born Patrick BRUNTY in Emdale, parish of Drumgallyroney, County Down, Ireland, on St. Patrick's Day 1777, was a poor, rather eccentric Irishman who became the parish clergyman in the small, isolated town of Haworth, Yorkshire in England. Charlotte's famous novel, "Jane Eyre," (1847) was largely biographical. Through the heroine, Charlotte relived the hated boarding school and her experiences as a governess in a large house, although the hero and master of the house, Rochester, was fictional. At the time it was published, some of her contemporaries were shocked that the character, Jane, wanted to be regarded as a thinking and independent person as opposed to a weak woman. Charlotte wrote a first-hand account of her visit to the Crystal Palace at the Great Exhibition, in 1851, at Hyde Park, London. Sir Joseph PAXTON's Crystal Palace contained a floor area of more than 800,000 square feet and contained over eight miles of display tables. Charlotte wrote - "Yesterday, I went for the second time to the Crystal Palace. We remained in it about three hours, and I must say I was more struck with it on this occasion than at my first visit It is a wonderful place - vast, strange, new, and impossible to describe. Its grandeur does not consist in one thing, but in the unique assemblage of all things. Whatever human industry has created you will find there, from the great compartments filled with railway engines and boilers, with mill machinery in full work, with splendid carriages of all kinds, with harness of every description, to the glass-covered and velvet-spread stands loaded with the most gorgeous work of the goldsmith and silversmith, and the carefully guarded caskets full of real diamonds and pearls worth hundreds of thousands of pounds. It may be called a bazaar or a fair, but it is such a bazaar or fair as Eastern genii might have created. It seems as if only magic could have gathered this mass of wealth from all the ends of the earth -- as if none but supernatural hands could have arranged it thus, with such a blaze and contrast of colours and marvellous power of effect. The multitude filling the great aisles seems ruled and subdued by some invisible influence. Amongst the thirty thousand souls that peopled it the day I was there not one loud noise was to be heard, not one irregular movement seen; the living tide rolls on quietly, with a deep hum like the sea heard from the distance."

On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:49:40 -0800 "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: Hello Jean, > Hi List - Playing around with the on-line 1911 England-Wales census at > the web address below, I discovered that (surprise!) a number of > individuals on the census who had been born in Ireland actually GAVE > THE ENUMERATOR THE NAME OF THE COUNTY! Try it and see, on the > advanced search. Unlike previous censuses, what we see at 1911census.co.uk are the householder schedules, and not the enumerators schedules. As such, details of place of birth are likely to be more detailed than those of the enumerators' books. The RG78 reference you get for each image is linked to the enumerators books. These will, eventually, become available to view. If you've already paid for an image, you'll get the RG78 image at no extra charge. An added bonus of having the householder schedule is that we get to see the handwriting of one of our ancestors. Often, but not always, this was the head of household. Like you, I've found the place of birth of a couple of my ancestors gave the village/town and county they were born in (good news). Unfortunately, PRs for the relevant place/time have yet to make it on-line (bad news). -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" Well well well, you just can't tell My Michelle - Guns 'N' Roses

I'm a new list member who hopes that someone may be able to help me find a hospital or burial record for a mariner by the name of Joseph HILL who died from suffocation on board the brig 'Britannia' in July 1830 while it was in Dublin. I'm trying to determine if it's possible that he may be my elusive 2x gt grandfather from Northumberland, England. I learned about the death of Joseph HILL through the on-line19th century English Newspapers site. The following article was in the "Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser" (Dublin Ireland) on Friday, July 16, 1830: "DEATH FROM SUFFOCATION - A mariner named Joseph Hill, belonging to the brig 'Britannia' of Plymouth, expired in Guy's hospital from the effects of suffocation. The deceased was waiting up for his captain in the forecastle of the vessel between three and four o'clock on the morning of Thursday last, and falling asleep, a lap dog of the captain as it is supposed, knocked down the candle, the flame of which communicated with the deceased's clothes; some watermen perceiving smoke, roused the mate, who was completely senseless, and took him to the hospital. The dog was dead, and the opinion is that the deceased died from inflammation in the throat, brought on by the effects of the smothering fire." I've been able to narrow the death of my 2x gt grandfather, Joseph HILL, to the period between 1829 and 1834, most likely before 1832, but I've never been able to find out exactly when or where. He was a master mariner from North Shields, England, who was baptised in 1785. That would have made his age about 45 years in 1830. (The Joseph HILL in the newspaper article was a mate rather than a master but there's a possibility that my Joseph HILL was involved in a shipping mishap in 1829 which may mean he had to find subsequent work as a mate rather than as a master.) Can anyone on the list direct me to a source where I might be able to find a possible 1830 Guy's hospital record or a Dublin burial record for the Joseph HILL who died in the fire on board the 'Britannia'. I'm assuming that he was buried in Dublin. I'm hoping such a record may give me more information about his age or place of residence which could help me to determine if he was my ancestor. Thank you very much for your suggestions. Kind regards, Eleanor Clouter, Canada

When reserching my Stapletons i received a copy of an Immigration cert for John Stapleton Married Male immigrant,arrived by the Ship Magistrate 1838 left Cork,Ireland March 1838 and arrived Sydney July 1838 Native of Birr. Kings County son of Mary Stapleton (Nee Madden) of same place Labourer. Age on embarcation 27years Good Health Rel: Catholic Margaret Stapleton. Married female immigrant, brought out by "Magistrate" 1838 Native of Athy. Co Kildare, Dau of Margaret Mc Carthy. House Keeper. same place, age on embarcation 23years Their 2year old son Michael was with them and Margaret gave birth to a daughter, 3 weeks before arriving--Mary. Also John's 15 year old sister, Maria,a children's maid migrated with them This is not my line but may be useful to someone. Val

Jean, thanks for the offer of help and the other information. I know my daughters SS# and death date, and the SS office close to me says she isn't on the index. They aren't much help. (I also know her birth date as I was there then, too.) You posted a lot of info on the SS death index that I am sure will help everyone in their search. Thanks again. Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [IRELAND] USA Social Security Death Index InteractiveSearchatRootsweb > Hi Joan - Are you trying to find her on the SSDI. Do you know whether or > not she had a SS number? Do you need some other pairs of eyes to help > search? (I may be mistaken, but I believe there are more than one or two > websites with search engines for SSDI.) > > The "Application for a Social Security Number" is commonly referred to as > the SS-5. In addition to the SSDI, you may find your ancestor's Social > Security number in other ways, especially on death certificates. While it > may seem like you are recreating the wheel to request the SS-5 form, there > are times that this can be the only proof you will have for an ancestor's > birth. For instance, for those ancestors born in the 1860s to 1880s who > immigrated to the United States, it can difficult to pinpoint their place > of > birth. On the SS-5 it was required that the applicant supply complete > birth > information. This means more than just the country of birth, as is usually > found on census and death records. Moreover, the maiden name of the > applicant's mother was requested, often critical information for a family > historian. > > In 1996, I sent away for half a dozen SS applications on my deceased > parents > and other relatives. I'm really glad that I did; in every instance, I > discovered something new. For example - I knew that dad's sister "Pat" > Ford > had been born in Liverpool and I knew the name of her parents. > Interestingly, she spelled her father's first name as Micheal, while her > siblings had spelled it Michael. Her SS application revealed that "Aunt > Pat's real name was Winifred Rosina Ford and that in 1936, when she > applied > for SS, she was married to a Mr. Kelly - new information for me. > (Apparently her "Pat" nickname came from her Irish grandfather, Patrick.) > Her application gave me her date and place of birth, her age at last > birthday, her sex and "color," parents' names, her present address (1936), > her employer's business name and address, the date she signed the > application and her own signature. Using this new information, I was able > to find out about her first marriage and daughter from that union, etc. > Similarly, my mother's SS application gave me new clues. In 1936 she was > newly married, had moved from OR to WA State, was residing and working in > a > town I wasn't aware of. I knew her parents' names, Arley Otto Sweany and > Vertie May Grymes - names which were badly misspelled in old IN and LDS > FHC > records, by the way! I was able to further my research and late discover > my > Grymes line in IN had changed the spelling of the surname; the rest of the > family were Grimes! > > While the price of the SS applications has gone up since 1996, I believe > they are well worth the cost, as they can fill in gaps in the data > provided > on the U. S. Federal censuses taken every ten years. ***BTW, some states > and/or counties conducted censuses in between Federal census years, so > researchers might want to investigate that.*** > > Social Security officially was begun in 1937, with some payments being > paid > as early as 1940. However, the Social Security Death Index is the > computerized index to deaths reported and/or death benefits paid out > starting in 1962. The SSDI includes a few pre-1962 entries, but the great > majority of those included in this index are from 1962 through the present > time. While the limitations of dates may exclude your family member, > other > reasons that your ancestor may not be included in the SSDI might have to > do > with his or her occupation or lack thereof. Prior to the 1960s, farmers, > housewives, government employees, non-employed individuals, and those with > a > separate retirement plan might not have had a Social Security number. It > was > not until 1988 that all children had to have Social Security numbers. When > using the Social Security Death Index, in addition to the date of birth > and > date of death, there are three possible places included as well: > > a.. State of issuance (where a person then lived and applied or the state > in which the office that issued their social security number was located). > b.. Residence at time of death (this is really the address of record, but > not necessarily where they lived or died). > c.. Death benefit (where the lump sum death benefit [burial allowance] > was > sent). > Jean > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joan Whitney" <jwhitney@pacifier.com> > To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [IRELAND] USA Social Security Death Index Interactive > SearchatRootsweb >> FYI the Social Security Death Index is amazing- BUT not complete. If >> you >> do find family, there will be a mothers maiden name on the application. >> And >> a fathers name. You couldn't get a SS card with out that info. For no >> apparent reason, some names do not get entered into the index; my oldest >> daughter, for one. Joan Whitney >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> >> To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 3:27 PM >> Subject: [IRELAND] USA Social Security Death Index Interactive Search >> atRootsweb > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rwguide/lesson10.htm > >> My Tip: Upon using the search engine, don't include a period after a >> known middle initial. >> <snip> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Joan - Are you trying to find her on the SSDI. Do you know whether or not she had a SS number? Do you need some other pairs of eyes to help search? (I may be mistaken, but I believe there are more than one or two websites with search engines for SSDI.) The "Application for a Social Security Number" is commonly referred to as the SS-5. In addition to the SSDI, you may find your ancestor's Social Security number in other ways, especially on death certificates. While it may seem like you are recreating the wheel to request the SS-5 form, there are times that this can be the only proof you will have for an ancestor's birth. For instance, for those ancestors born in the 1860s to 1880s who immigrated to the United States, it can difficult to pinpoint their place of birth. On the SS-5 it was required that the applicant supply complete birth information. This means more than just the country of birth, as is usually found on census and death records. Moreover, the maiden name of the applicant's mother was requested, often critical information for a family historian. In 1996, I sent away for half a dozen SS applications on my deceased parents and other relatives. I'm really glad that I did; in every instance, I discovered something new. For example - I knew that dad's sister "Pat" Ford had been born in Liverpool and I knew the name of her parents. Interestingly, she spelled her father's first name as Micheal, while her siblings had spelled it Michael. Her SS application revealed that "Aunt Pat's real name was Winifred Rosina Ford and that in 1936, when she applied for SS, she was married to a Mr. Kelly - new information for me. (Apparently her "Pat" nickname came from her Irish grandfather, Patrick.) Her application gave me her date and place of birth, her age at last birthday, her sex and "color," parents' names, her present address (1936), her employer's business name and address, the date she signed the application and her own signature. Using this new information, I was able to find out about her first marriage and daughter from that union, etc. Similarly, my mother's SS application gave me new clues. In 1936 she was newly married, had moved from OR to WA State, was residing and working in a town I wasn't aware of. I knew her parents' names, Arley Otto Sweany and Vertie May Grymes - names which were badly misspelled in old IN and LDS FHC records, by the way! I was able to further my research and late discover my Grymes line in IN had changed the spelling of the surname; the rest of the family were Grimes! While the price of the SS applications has gone up since 1996, I believe they are well worth the cost, as they can fill in gaps in the data provided on the U. S. Federal censuses taken every ten years. ***BTW, some states and/or counties conducted censuses in between Federal census years, so researchers might want to investigate that.*** Social Security officially was begun in 1937, with some payments being paid as early as 1940. However, the Social Security Death Index is the computerized index to deaths reported and/or death benefits paid out starting in 1962. The SSDI includes a few pre-1962 entries, but the great majority of those included in this index are from 1962 through the present time. While the limitations of dates may exclude your family member, other reasons that your ancestor may not be included in the SSDI might have to do with his or her occupation or lack thereof. Prior to the 1960s, farmers, housewives, government employees, non-employed individuals, and those with a separate retirement plan might not have had a Social Security number. It was not until 1988 that all children had to have Social Security numbers. When using the Social Security Death Index, in addition to the date of birth and date of death, there are three possible places included as well: a.. State of issuance (where a person then lived and applied or the state in which the office that issued their social security number was located). b.. Residence at time of death (this is really the address of record, but not necessarily where they lived or died). c.. Death benefit (where the lump sum death benefit [burial allowance] was sent). Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Whitney" <jwhitney@pacifier.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [IRELAND] USA Social Security Death Index Interactive SearchatRootsweb > FYI the Social Security Death Index is amazing- BUT not complete. If > you > do find family, there will be a mothers maiden name on the application. > And > a fathers name. You couldn't get a SS card with out that info. For no > apparent reason, some names do not get entered into the index; my oldest > daughter, for one. Joan Whitney > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> > To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 3:27 PM > Subject: [IRELAND] USA Social Security Death Index Interactive Search > atRootsweb http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rwguide/lesson10.htm > My Tip: Upon using the search engine, don't include a period after a > known middle initial. > <snip>

FYI the Social Security Death Index is amazing- BUT not complete. If you do find family, there will be a mothers maiden name on the application. And a fathers name. You couldn't get a SS card with out that info. For no apparent reason, some names do not get entered into the index; my oldest daughter, for one. Joan Whitney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> To: <IRELAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 3:27 PM Subject: [IRELAND] USA Social Security Death Index Interactive Search atRootsweb > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rwguide/lesson10.htm > > My Tip: Upon using the search engine, don't include a period after a > known > middle initial. > > Sending away for a deceased family member's SS application will nearly > always help to fill in missing blanks in your FH. It will also provide > you > with a copy of his/her handwriting! If your person of interest worked for > the railroad, be sure and read about that at the website. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

REMEMBERING CON MARKIEVICZ Child running wild in woods of Lissadell: Young lady from the Big House, seen In a flowered dress, gathering wild flowers: Ascendancy queen Of hunts, house-parties, practical jokes -- who could foretell (Oh fiery shade, impetuous bone) Where all was regular, self-sufficient, gay Their lovely hoyden lost in a nation's heroine? Laughterless now the sweet demesne, And the gaunt house looks blank on Sligo Bay A nest decayed, an eagle flown. The Paris studio, your playboy Count Were not enough, nor Castle splendour And fame of horsemanship. You were the tinder Waiting a match, a runner tuned for the pistol's sound, Impatient shade, long-suffering bone. In a Balally cottage you found a store Of Sinn Fein papers. You read -- maybe the old sheets can while The time. The flash lights up a whole Ireland which you have never known before, A nest betrayed, its eagles gone. The road to Connolly and Stephen's Green Showed clear. The great heart which defied Irish prejudice, English snipers, died A little not have shared a grave with the fourteen. Oh fiery shade, intransigent bone! And when the Treaty emptied the British jails, A haggard woman returned and Dublin went wild to greet her. But still it was not enough: an iota Of compromise, she cried, and the Cause fails. Nest disarrayed, eagles undone. Fanatic, bad actress, figure of fun -- She was called each. Ever she dreamed, Fought, suffered for a losing side, it seemed (The side which always at last is seen to have won), Oh fiery shade and unvexed bone. Remember a heart impulsive, gay and tender, Still to an ideal Ireland and its real poor alive. When she died in a pauper bed, in love All the poor of Dublin rose to lament her. A nest is made, an eagle flown. -- C. Day-Lewis, Anglo-Irish Poet Laureate of England Note - Constance Gore-Booth (Countess Markievicz), the eldest daughter of an Anglo-Irish baronet, had been privately educated at Lissadell, the family home in Co. Sligo. She was presented at Court in 1887 and was thoroughly at home in the world of gala balls. Then in 1900 she married a Polish Count, settled in Dublin in 1903 and began to move towards feminism, socialism and extreme nationalism, much to the distress of early admirers such as Yeats. In the 1916 rising she fought with the Irish Citizen Army and initially was condemned to death. In the 1918 General Election she became the first woman MP but declined to take her seat, in accordance with Sinn Fein policy. Imprisoned again during the war of independence, "the rebel countess" completed her long journey from her background by branding the Anglo-Irish treaty of 1921 a betrayal of republican hopes.

SNIPPET: Lovely Constance GORE-BOOTH (1868-1927) grew up as a privileged child of the Ascendancy. Born in London and educated near the family estate in Sligo, she met Queen Victoria when she was 19. An artist, she went to Paris in 1898 to study painting and there met Count Casmir DUNIN-MARKIEVICZ, a painter and member of a wealthy Catholic Polish family. They married in 1900 and moved to Dublin in 1903 where she soon found herself drawn to the Gaelic League and Abbey Theatre. She became a staunch nationalist and in 1908 joined Sinn Fein. At some point she separated amicably from her husband. In 1913, during the Dublin lockout, she worked closely with James CONNOLLY and operated a soup kitchen in Liberty Hall for out-of-work laborers. She participated in the Easter Rising (1916) as commandant in the "Irish Citizen Army." and was condemned to death. Her sentence was reduced to life in prison, but she was released in 1917 under a general amnesty, and she became honorary president of the "Irish Women Workers" union. Soon after her release she converted to Catholicism and began a political career. In the 1918 general election she became the first woman elected to the British Parliament/House of Commons but refused (in line with Sinn Fein policy) to take her seat. She served as minister of labour in the first Dail Eireann (the Parliament of the Irish Republic) and served two terms in prison, and sided with de VALERA in opposing the Anglo-Irish Treaty, as did most women active in politics. After the Civil War (and another term in prison) she continued to be active in Republican circles, joining de VALERA's Fianna Fail party in 1926. She died in July 1927 in a public ward of a Dublin hospital shortly after winning reelection to the Dail.. Working-class people of Dublin lined the streets for her funeral. In several poems, William Butler YEATS mentions her directly or indirectly - i.e., "On a Political Prisoner" (1921), and "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and Con Markiewicz" (1933) - Eva being her sister, and their home at Lissadell. ON A POLITICAL PRISONER She that but little patience knew, >From childhood on, had now so much A grey gull lost its fear and flew Down to her cell and there alit, And there endured her fingers' touch And from her fingers ate its bit. Did she in touching that lone wing Recall the years before her mind Became a bitter, an abstract thing, Her thought some popular enmity: Blind and leader of the blind Drinking the foul ditch where they lie? When long ago I saw her ride Under Ben Bulben to the meet, The beauty of her country-side With all youth's lonely wildness stirred, She seemed to have grown clean and sweet Like any rock-bred, sea-borne bird: Sea borne, or balanced on the air When first it sprang out of the nest Upon some lofty rock to stare Upon the cloudy canopy, While under its storm -beaten breast Cried out the hollows of the sea. -- William Butler YEATS