I Will try and pick it up on Amazon ,thank you i enjoy reading i can not get enough of it ,,regards sylvia canada CMARYPATC@aol.com wrote: > > > > Do get the cassette of Frank Mc Court reading this book, It is amazing, > comes to life > with his additions and brogue. > > MaryPat > > SNIPPET: "Frank McCOURT's life and his searing telling of it, reveals all we > need to know about being human," wrote the 'Detroit Free Press when his > award-winning memoir, 'Angela's Ashes' was published in 1996. Frank taught > English for many years at Stuyvesant High School in NYC after he returned to > the States from Ireland as a young man. Here are some excerpts: > > "My father and mother should have stayed in New York where they met and > married and where I was born. Instead, they returned to Ireland when I was > four, my brother, Malachy, three, the twins, Oliver and Eugene, barely one, > and my sister, Margaret dead and gone." In the lanes of Limerick the family > tried to survive on what amounted to fried bread and tea. Father had > problems finding and then keeping a job. "The lice are disgusting, worse > than rats. They're in our heads and ears and they sit in the hollows of our > collarbones. They dig into our skin. They get into the seams of our clothes > and they're everywhere in the coats we use as blankets. We have to search > every inch of Alphie's body because he's a baby and helpless. The lice are > worse than fleas ..... The shirt I wore to bed is the shirt I wear to > school. I wear it day in day out. It's the shirt for football, for climbing > walls, for robbing orchards I go to Mass and the Confraternity in that shirt > > and people sniff the air and move away. If Mam gets a docket for a new one > at the St. Vincent de Paul the old shirt is promoted to towel and hangs damp > on the chair for months or Mam might use bits of it to patch other shirts. > She might even cut it up and let Alphie wear it a while before it winds up > on the floor pushed against the bottom of the door to block the rain from > the lane. ... We go to school through lanes and back streets so that we > won't meet the respectable boys who go to the Christian Brothers' School or > the rich ones who go to the Jesuit school, Crescent College. The Christian > Brothers' boys wear tweed jackets, warm woolen sweaters, shirts, ties and > shiny new boots. We know they're the ones who will get jobs in the civil > service and help the people who run the world. The Crescent College boys > wear blazers and school scarves tossed around their necks and over their > shoulders to show they're cock o' the walk. They have long hair which falls > across their foreheads and over their eyes so that they can toss their > quiffs like Englishmen. We know they're the ones who will go to university, > take over the family business, run the government, run the world. We'll be > the messenger boys on bicycles who deliver their groceries or we'll go off > to England to work on the building sites. Our sisters will mind their > children and scrub their floors unless they go off to England, too. We're > ashamed of the way we look and if boys from the rich schools pass remarks > we'll get into fights and wind up with bloody noses or torn clothes... > > Grandma's next-door neighbor, Mrs. Purcell, has the only wireless in her > lane. The government gave it to her because she's old and blind. I want a > radio. My grandmother is old but she's not blind and what's the use of > having a grandmother who won't go blind and get a government radio? Sunday > nights I sit outside on the pavement under Mrs. Purcell's window listening > to plays on the BBC and Radio Eireann, the Irish station You can hear plays > by O'Casey, Shaw, Ibsen and Shakespeare himself, the best of all, even if he > is English .... And you can hear strange plays about Greeks plucking out > their eyes because they married their mothers by mistake. One night I am > sitting under Mrs. Purcell's window listening to 'Macbeth.' Her daughter, > Kathleen, sticks her head out the door. Come in, Frankie. My mother says > you'll catch the consumption sitting on the ground in this weather. Ah no > Kathleen. It's all right. No. Come in They give me tea and a grand cut of > bread slathered with blackberry jam. Mrs. Purcell says, Do you like the > Shakespeare, Frankie? I love the Shakespeare, Mrs. Purcell. Oh, he's music, > Frankie, and he has the best stories in the world. I don't know what I'd do > with meself of a Sunday night if I didn't have the Shakespeare. When the > play finished she lets me fiddle with the knob on the radio and I roam the > dial for distant sounds on the shortwave band, strange whispering and > hissing, the whoosh of the ocean coming and going and Morse Code dit dit dit > dot. I hear mandolins, guitars, Spanish bagpipes, the drums of Africa ... > here is the great boom of Big Ben, this is the BBC Overseas Service and here > is the news. Mrs. Purcell says, Leave that on, Frankie, so we'll know the > state of the world. After the news there is the American Armed Forces > Network and it's lovely to hear the American voices easy and cool and here > is the music, oh man, the music of Duke Ellington himself telling me take > the A train to where Billie Holiday sings only to me, 'I can't give you > anything but love, baby. That's the only thing I've plenty of, baby.' Oh, > Billie, Billie, I want to be in America with you and all that music, where > no one has bad teeth, people leave food on their plates, every family has a > lavatory, and everyone lives happily ever after. And Mrs. Purcell's says, Do > you know what, Frankie? What, Mrs. Purcell? That Shakespeare is that good he > must have been an Irishman." > > > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219619459x1201345309/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID > %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

SNIPPET: "Frank McCOURT's life and his searing telling of it, reveals all we need to know about being human," wrote the 'Detroit Free Press when his award-winning memoir, 'Angela's Ashes' was published in 1996. Frank taught English for many years at Stuyvesant High School in NYC after he returned to the States from Ireland as a young man. Here are some excerpts: "My father and mother should have stayed in New York where they met and married and where I was born. Instead, they returned to Ireland when I was four, my brother, Malachy, three, the twins, Oliver and Eugene, barely one, and my sister, Margaret dead and gone." In the lanes of Limerick the family tried to survive on what amounted to fried bread and tea. Father had problems finding and then keeping a job. "The lice are disgusting, worse than rats. They're in our heads and ears and they sit in the hollows of our collarbones. They dig into our skin. They get into the seams of our clothes and they're everywhere in the coats we use as blankets. We have to search every inch of Alphie's body because he's a baby and helpless. The lice are worse than fleas ..... The shirt I wore to bed is the shirt I wear to school. I wear it day in day out. It's the shirt for football, for climbing walls, for robbing orchards I go to Mass and the Confraternity in that shirt and people sniff the air and move away. If Mam gets a docket for a new one at the St. Vincent de Paul the old shirt is promoted to towel and hangs damp on the chair for months or Mam might use bits of it to patch other shirts. She might even cut it up and let Alphie wear it a while before it winds up on the floor pushed against the bottom of the door to block the rain from the lane. ... We go to school through lanes and back streets so that we won't meet the respectable boys who go to the Christian Brothers' School or the rich ones who go to the Jesuit school, Crescent College. The Christian Brothers' boys wear tweed jackets, warm woolen sweaters, shirts, ties and shiny new boots. We know they're the ones who will get jobs in the civil service and help the people who run the world. The Crescent College boys wear blazers and school scarves tossed around their necks and over their shoulders to show they're cock o' the walk. They have long hair which falls across their foreheads and over their eyes so that they can toss their quiffs like Englishmen. We know they're the ones who will go to university, take over the family business, run the government, run the world. We'll be the messenger boys on bicycles who deliver their groceries or we'll go off to England to work on the building sites. Our sisters will mind their children and scrub their floors unless they go off to England, too. We're ashamed of the way we look and if boys from the rich schools pass remarks we'll get into fights and wind up with bloody noses or torn clothes... Grandma's next-door neighbor, Mrs. Purcell, has the only wireless in her lane. The government gave it to her because she's old and blind. I want a radio. My grandmother is old but she's not blind and what's the use of having a grandmother who won't go blind and get a government radio? Sunday nights I sit outside on the pavement under Mrs. Purcell's window listening to plays on the BBC and Radio Eireann, the Irish station You can hear plays by O'Casey, Shaw, Ibsen and Shakespeare himself, the best of all, even if he is English .... And you can hear strange plays about Greeks plucking out their eyes because they married their mothers by mistake. One night I am sitting under Mrs. Purcell's window listening to 'Macbeth.' Her daughter, Kathleen, sticks her head out the door. Come in, Frankie. My mother says you'll catch the consumption sitting on the ground in this weather. Ah no Kathleen. It's all right. No. Come in They give me tea and a grand cut of bread slathered with blackberry jam. Mrs. Purcell says, Do you like the Shakespeare, Frankie? I love the Shakespeare, Mrs. Purcell. Oh, he's music, Frankie, and he has the best stories in the world. I don't know what I'd do with meself of a Sunday night if I didn't have the Shakespeare. When the play finished she lets me fiddle with the knob on the radio and I roam the dial for distant sounds on the shortwave band, strange whispering and hissing, the whoosh of the ocean coming and going and Morse Code dit dit dit dot. I hear mandolins, guitars, Spanish bagpipes, the drums of Africa ... here is the great boom of Big Ben, this is the BBC Overseas Service and here is the news. Mrs. Purcell says, Leave that on, Frankie, so we'll know the state of the world. After the news there is the American Armed Forces Network and it's lovely to hear the American voices easy and cool and here is the music, oh man, the music of Duke Ellington himself telling me take the A train to where Billie Holiday sings only to me, 'I can't give you anything but love, baby. That's the only thing I've plenty of, baby.' Oh, Billie, Billie, I want to be in America with you and all that music, where no one has bad teeth, people leave food on their plates, every family has a lavatory, and everyone lives happily ever after. And Mrs. Purcell's says, Do you know what, Frankie? What, Mrs. Purcell? That Shakespeare is that good he must have been an Irishman."

SNIPPET: Readers shared their thoughts about Ireland in the Mar-Apr 2005 issue of Dublin's "Ireland of the Welcomes" magazine: Martina BIONDA, Lakewood, CO, shared: "I find it positively necessary to comment on 'The Road of Souls' article which you featured in the Nov/Dec 2004 issue of your magazine. The vibrant memoir is so finely detailed that we literally sobbed as we sat around our table in awe of the magic of the writing. The author P. J. CURTIS respectfully presented the coarse life of 'the traveller' by embracing Rory Dubh's distinct majesty, wisdom, simplicity and ultimate freedom. How accurate the mention of the gaily painted caravans, the sweet tea and the frosty night brings forth life to the pages. The author's admiration of the traveller is much in concurrence with ours, although we are a family of 'outsiders' who are sadly far from our beloved ancestral Ireland. I personally have possessed a true fondness for the lifestyle of the 'tinkers' of the past. My siblings, myself and our children have been blessed with the gift of story-telling which was passed along from my precious late grandmother from Co Cork through my mother from Limerick City. Each experienced opportunities exclusive to Ireland. In this age of turmoil, haste and complexity, we eagerly long for the simplicity of the past which is superbly portrayed with 'The Road of Souls.' I wish to thank both P. J. CURTIS and IOTW for publishing such a treasured writing. The story brought us home momentarily but it will remain in our hearts forever... " Theresa WICHERT, Mattydale, NY, wrote: "What a beautiful article written by P. J. CURTIS in your Nov-Dec 2004 issue of IOTW. 'The Road of Souls' was a truly Irish story that tugged at the heart and soul while being read. So realistic were the players and places described, one felt they were actually there, and not only outside looking in. Even if the reader does not believe in Rory Dubh O'BRIEN's version of the Milky Way, they would find themselves wishing they did, just to meet this grand old man!" Mitch McGILVRA, Palm Bay, FL, shared: "... In late March 2000, a week or so before my birthday, I went to dinner with my mother and a cousin. Before dinner she presented me with a large envelope and said, 'Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas.' When I opened the envelope there was a copy of IOTW, along with some travel brochures to Ireland. While I sat there with my mouth open, she said, 'We are going to Ireland.' My mother had congestive heart failure in 1997, and again in 1999; but she wanted to see Ireland before she died and wanted me to go there with her. We had also, as a family, tried to send my grandfather to Ireland many years earlier, but unfortunately because he was so afraid of flying he never went. We arrived in Dublin on June 8, 2000, after travelling almost 24 hours without sleep. The morning rush-hour traffic was a great way to learn how to drive a stick-shift car on the other side of the road. We travelled south through Wicklow, Arklow, Waterford, Clonmel, Cahir where I felt terrible that my mother was not strong enough to make the climb up to see the Rock of Cashel. In Tipperary, we made fast friends with a dog called 'Scooby Do' in the pub where we stopped; I was lucky enough to get a good photograph of that dog licking my mother's face. Travelling on to Galway, we walked along the coastline, where I was sure one of us would be blown over. I still can't believe that people play golf right beside Galway Bay. We travelled on through Connemara and it was truly breathtaking ... We both knew we had arrived home when we reached Westport. You see, since our trip I have been researching exactly where my great-great grandfather came from in Ireland before coming to America in the early 1840s and we discovered he was from Westport. But the funny thing is that we both just knew it the moment we arrived there. We could only spend two days there, but we had a wonderful time. I went back to Ireland again in the summer of 2002 and spent two weeks traveling around on my own and once again I spent a long time in Ennis and an even longer time in Westport. I also went to see some places which I hadn't seen during my first visit, made some good friends and had a grand time. Sadly, on the morning of December 10, 2002, my mother passed away. I promised her that I would spread some of her ashes back 'home' in Ireland and it took some time to organise, but in the last week in August of 2003, I returned to Ireland and fulfilled my promise to her and sprinkled the last few ashes of what was a wonderful person at a beautiful spot in Mayo where our ancestors came from. So slainte Donna BRENNAN, and until we meet again." Terri FALVEY, Indianapolis, IN, wrote: "Since her election in 1997, I have enjoyed following the career of Ireland's president, Mary McALEESE. I find it especially interesting that although she is president of the Republic, she is in fact originally from Northern Ireland, which gives her a unique perspective on cross-border relations. Her 'person of the people' reputation and engaging speaking abilities, support her strong leadership qualities. That said, I will go on with my story of an incredibly timed encounter with President McALEESE. Last summer, my husband and I, along with our sons, and close family friends, rented an amazing home on Clew Bay in County Mayo. One morning, while the teens and college kids slept in, a few of us early-risers ventured out for a morning drive and found ourselves in the tiny coastal town of Bangor Erris. While sipping our coffees, we were startled when the pub owner calmly announced that the President would be arriving in ten minutes time. Of course, our immediate thoughts were that it would be the town council's president, civic association president, etc. Oh no, it would be none other than President Mary McALEESE, and she was coming to Bangor Erris to open a Community Services Centre. We gulped our coffees and hurried up the road where a small crowd had gathered. My husband, Tim, our friend, and myself were the only tourists, but the townspeople were very friendly and appreciative that we were there to share the moment with them. Sure enough, with only one police escort, (unlike the massive security in the U.S), President McALEESE arrived with her husband Martin at her side. How thrilling it was to stand in the doorway of the crowded Community Centre and listen to her speak on issues such as the importance of respect for the elderly and the future of Ireland's children. True to form, it was an inspiring speech. I will forever cherish that memory of a much simpler place and time. In our hectic, fast-paced world, may we all have more of those unexpected pleasures that slow us down so that we may truly savour the moment."

Thank you that genology tour would be fantastic we stayed in sligo last year ,,i will try get a couple of books you mentioned many to bad we didnt know about that famine ship we were threw wexford ,But if no one tells you you never find out these things Sylvia who is learning fast GDAA@aol.com wrote: > If you make it to Ireland, the Dunbrody Famine Ship is worth the visit. It > sits in the harbour at New Ross, Co. Wexford and is also connected with the > Kennedy family and the JFK Arboretum that sits just outside of New Ross. They > do a reenactment of crossing and it really gives you a great perspective on > what it was like for them in these small ships. > > You can check it out at : _www.dunbrody.com_ (http://www.dunbrody.com) > There is a lot of information on this website. > > It is one of the highlights on our genealogy tour in May! > > Ginger Aarons- Garrison, CTC, Director > Time Travel > P.O. Box 4427 > Wilsonville, OR 97070 > 503-454-0897 > tollfree and fax 877-787-7807 > cell 503-421-0029 > _www.timetraveltours.com_ (http://www.timetraveltours.com/) > MEMBERS OF : ASTA, ICTA & CLIA > > > In a message dated 3/19/2009 12:22:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > jeanrice@cet.com writes: > > Hi Donna - "Angela's Ashes" by Frank McCourt (NY>Limerick>NY) is one of my > very favorites. Regarding your query - a couple books come to mind: > > 1. The Irish emigrants fled a land of stunning beauty (Sligo) which could > no longer support their meager lives, to seek refuge in an unknown country > across the perilous seas. Voyages were made from Sligo to New York. An > account of this is found in "In Their Own Words, the Famine in North > Connacht," by Liam SWORDS. This 490-page book published in 2000 contains > diaries and letters of people leaving from the port of Sligo for NY during > the famine years. There are passenger lists from these "coffin" ships and > information on the important role of the Society of Friends (Quakers) during > the famine. Perhaps you can locate a copy. > > 2. Edward LAXTON in "The Famine Ships," pub. 1996, has many fascinating > accounts: Chapters deal with voyages of particular ships and history of > Ireland circa 1840s/50s. "In the summer of 1847, two thousand of LORD > PALMERSTON's tenants sailed from Sligo and others were routed through > Liverpool - all bound for Canada. Henry John TEMPLE, the THIRD VISCOUNT > PALMERSTON, was very much an absentee landlord. As a career politician he > was forced to spend all of his time in London. He became a cabinet minister > in the British government as early as 1809, serving 15 years as Foreign > Secretary, and later still, served two periods as Prime Minister. > Unfortunately, the nine vessels carrying his former tenants from the port of > Sligo were destined to join the ranks of the coffin ships and there was a > subsequent uproar in Canada about the poor condition of the emigrants upon > arrival. Protests flowed to the Colonial Secretary in London, and despite > his lofty position in government, LORD PALMERSTON was officially asked for > an explanation. Though ignorance should not be accepted as a deference, he > deftly switched the blame to his Irish agents Messrs. KINCAID and STEWART, > and their response, in a letter dated February 1, 1848 concluded: "The > emigrants were unfortunately poor and without any means of support except > what they could obtain by their labour, but that was their misfortune not > their fault, and they were both able and willing to work for their bread and > for the support of their family. Notwithstanding the reports from the > authorities in Saint John and Quebec ... very favourable accounts arrive > almost daily to their friends in this country from those who emigrated last > year from LORD PALMERSTON's estate, and that already some of them have been > able to send home money to their friends out of their earnings in the > Colonies." LORD PALMERSTON was one of many who acted in much the same way. > No one sought to deny that landlord emigration meant sending out of Ireland > the tenants who were not wanted because they were too old or ill, or caused > financial problems for their landlords, but good tenants who were young and > healthy, who gave no trouble, who worked the land and paid their rents were > apparently welcome to stay. There were many edges to the sword wielded by > the absentee landlords." ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donna Marstrander" <donna@marstrander.com> > To: <IRELAND@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:08 AM > Subject: [IRELAND] Irish reading material > > > >> Do you know of any good books to read about Irish immigration. I have read >> Frank McCourt books. >> Thanks, >> Donna >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message > > > > **************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479 > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220029050x1201385914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub > leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212974460%3B34272906%3Bh) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thankyou Ivan, Will do research in these counties for my Fitzgeralds. Many thanks, Kind regards, Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivan Lennon" <ilennon@rochester.rr.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [IRELAND] The Pale/ Kilkenny > > Gerald More Fitzgerald > > Redmondites: Followers of John Redmond, who succeeded Parnell as Irish > Party > (Constitutional Nationalists - Home Rulers) ) Leader in British > Parliament > > Opposed by the physical force Republicans( I.R.B. and later Sinn Fein) > > Irish political parties (FF and FG) to this day reflect this dichotomy > based > on support of or opposition to the Anglo Irish Treaty agreed to by Mick > Collins and accepted in January of 1922 by the Irish Dail - Which led to > Civil War in June of 1922. > > Best bets for Norman origins is Wexford and Waterford where they landed in > 1169 -1170. Plus Fitzgeralds in Co. Kildare I believe > Plus Leinster House, Dublin once owned by the Fitzgeralds. > > Unfortunately no civil records until 1864 plus only 2 censi - 1911 and > 1921 > All others destroyed > > Good luck > Ivan > > On 3/18/09 11:19 PM, "Mary Mizzi" <mmizzi@dodo.com.au> wrote: > >> Interesting History Ivan. When you mention the Norman Earl of Kildare, >> Georoid Mor, would this person be connected to the FitzGerald Clan? Also >> who were the Redmondites?

Thanks Bob. That worked. Mike **************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220029050x1201385914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212974460%3B34272906%3Bh)

If anyone has not read Angela's Ashes, do get it on tape and listen to Frank Mc Court read it. With his brogue and added remarks it is just wonderful. MaryPat "Angela's Ashes" by Frank McCourt (NY>Limerick>NY) is one of my very favorite **************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220029050x1201385914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212974460%3B34272906%3Bh)

If you make it to Ireland, the Dunbrody Famine Ship is worth the visit. It sits in the harbour at New Ross, Co. Wexford and is also connected with the Kennedy family and the JFK Arboretum that sits just outside of New Ross. They do a reenactment of crossing and it really gives you a great perspective on what it was like for them in these small ships. You can check it out at : _www.dunbrody.com_ (http://www.dunbrody.com) There is a lot of information on this website. It is one of the highlights on our genealogy tour in May! Ginger Aarons- Garrison, CTC, Director Time Travel P.O. Box 4427 Wilsonville, OR 97070 503-454-0897 tollfree and fax 877-787-7807 cell 503-421-0029 _www.timetraveltours.com_ (http://www.timetraveltours.com/) MEMBERS OF : ASTA, ICTA & CLIA In a message dated 3/19/2009 12:22:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jeanrice@cet.com writes: Hi Donna - "Angela's Ashes" by Frank McCourt (NY>Limerick>NY) is one of my very favorites. Regarding your query - a couple books come to mind: 1. The Irish emigrants fled a land of stunning beauty (Sligo) which could no longer support their meager lives, to seek refuge in an unknown country across the perilous seas. Voyages were made from Sligo to New York. An account of this is found in "In Their Own Words, the Famine in North Connacht," by Liam SWORDS. This 490-page book published in 2000 contains diaries and letters of people leaving from the port of Sligo for NY during the famine years. There are passenger lists from these "coffin" ships and information on the important role of the Society of Friends (Quakers) during the famine. Perhaps you can locate a copy. 2. Edward LAXTON in "The Famine Ships," pub. 1996, has many fascinating accounts: Chapters deal with voyages of particular ships and history of Ireland circa 1840s/50s. "In the summer of 1847, two thousand of LORD PALMERSTON's tenants sailed from Sligo and others were routed through Liverpool - all bound for Canada. Henry John TEMPLE, the THIRD VISCOUNT PALMERSTON, was very much an absentee landlord. As a career politician he was forced to spend all of his time in London. He became a cabinet minister in the British government as early as 1809, serving 15 years as Foreign Secretary, and later still, served two periods as Prime Minister. Unfortunately, the nine vessels carrying his former tenants from the port of Sligo were destined to join the ranks of the coffin ships and there was a subsequent uproar in Canada about the poor condition of the emigrants upon arrival. Protests flowed to the Colonial Secretary in London, and despite his lofty position in government, LORD PALMERSTON was officially asked for an explanation. Though ignorance should not be accepted as a deference, he deftly switched the blame to his Irish agents Messrs. KINCAID and STEWART, and their response, in a letter dated February 1, 1848 concluded: "The emigrants were unfortunately poor and without any means of support except what they could obtain by their labour, but that was their misfortune not their fault, and they were both able and willing to work for their bread and for the support of their family. Notwithstanding the reports from the authorities in Saint John and Quebec ... very favourable accounts arrive almost daily to their friends in this country from those who emigrated last year from LORD PALMERSTON's estate, and that already some of them have been able to send home money to their friends out of their earnings in the Colonies." LORD PALMERSTON was one of many who acted in much the same way. No one sought to deny that landlord emigration meant sending out of Ireland the tenants who were not wanted because they were too old or ill, or caused financial problems for their landlords, but good tenants who were young and healthy, who gave no trouble, who worked the land and paid their rents were apparently welcome to stay. There were many edges to the sword wielded by the absentee landlords." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Marstrander" <donna@marstrander.com> To: <IRELAND@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:08 AM Subject: [IRELAND] Irish reading material > Do you know of any good books to read about Irish immigration. I have read > Frank McCourt books. > Thanks, > Donna ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220029050x1201385914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212974460%3B34272906%3Bh)

Hi listers. Just to let you know that for reasons beyond our control we seem to have 'lost' our Guest Book link on the Bandon website. Sadly, all the messages left there have been 'lost' as well. We hope to get another one up and running so if you left a message previously and would like to re-leave it, please keep a look out for the new page. Not sure how long this will take. In the meantime, if you are researching in and around the Bandon area, do take a look. www.bandon-genealogy.com/ Regards, Patsy - New Zealand

Interesting History Ivan. When you mention the Norman Earl of Kildare, Georoid Mor, would this person be connected to the FitzGerald Clan? Also who were the Redmondites? Just a thought..... as my g/g/grandfather was Timothy Fitzgerald b.1784 and his father was called Redmond Fitzgerald. I am doing the family history of this family but cannot find any history of him or his daughter, my g/grandmother, when they were in Ireland,,,,Mary Ann, b.1837, Ireland ,who married Thomas Hooley in Swansea in 1857, . Looking for links to counties I should search. I have all their history in Wales. I have been told that the Fitzgerald Family go back to 910 AD when they were known as the Geraldinos/Gheradinos, who owned a large peice of Florence, migrating to France, then coming across during the Norman Invasion and settling in Wales and Ireland. Trying to link my lot with one of these ancestors. Thanks for the interesting email, Kind regards, Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivan Lennon" <ilennon@rochester.rr.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:49 AM Subject: [IRELAND] The Pale/ Kilkenny > > A chara > > Pale was first used in Ireland in 1495 to denote the fortified lowland > region around Dublin that was subject to English rule. A locally paid and > recruited force defended the Pale community from the 1470's > until the mid 1530's. > > Re the 1366 Statutes of Kilkenny: They were largely ineffectual and, by > the > 1500's, wide- ranging control was exercised by the Norman Earl of > Kildare, > (Gearoid Mor). > > Welsh Normans first arrived in 1169 in Wexford and then Waterford in 1170. > Ties were solidified w/ the marriage of Dermot's daughter to Strongbow > > Coincidentally it was nearly 750 years later (March 1922) that Portlairge > was claimed for the Irish nation. An action generally not received warmly > by the Redmondite inhabitants of Urbs Intacta. > > > Slan agus beannacht > > > > > On 3/18/09 2:58 PM, "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: > >> SNIPPET: The term "beyond the Pale" has its origins in 14th century >> Ireland >> in the Statutes of Kilkenny. These laws established a sweeping series of >> prohibitions against fraternization between Anglo-Irish colonizers and >> the >> native Irish. They also defined what became known as the Pale of >> Settlement >> (pale comes from the Latin word Palus or fence post) a narrow strip of >> land, >> little more than 20 miles wide in most places, running north from >> Waterford >> to Dundalk on Ireland's eastern coast. Those living "beyond the pale" >> were >> considered "Irish enemies" not entitled to protection under English law. >> >> The Anglo-Normans who had arrived in the 1200s had rapidly became >> Anglo-Irish, intermarrying with the native Irish and had taken on their >> language, dress and customs. This was part of a larger revival of Irish >> culture in this period known as the Gaelic Recovery. Events such as the >> Black Death (an epidemic of bubonic and pneumonic plague that spread >> rapidly >> from Asia to Europe in the 1340s, arriving in the British Isles in the >> summer of 1348, with resultant massive loss of life and social disorder) >> had >> crippled the English economy, sharply limiting the Crown's ability to >> intervene in Ireland. >> >> The development of Irish identity among the colonizing families in >> Ireland >> had caused great concern to the British Crown. To reverse this trend, the >> British viceroy in Ireland pushed through the Irish Parliament the >> Statutes >> of Kilkenny in 1366. Its preamble summed up the problem of British >> conquest: >> >> "Now many English of the said land, forsaking the English language, >> fashion, >> mode of riding, laws and usages, live and govern themselves according to >> the >> manners, fashion, and the language of the Irish enemies, and also having >> made divers marriages and alliances between themselves and the Irish >> enemies >> aforesaid ... the English language, the allegiance due to our Lord the >> King >> and the English laws there are put in subjection and decayed, and the >> Irish >> enemies exalted and raised up, contrary to right." >> >> The Statutes explicitly forbade intermarriage between the Irish and the >> Anglo-Irish colonizers. The latter were prohibited from speaking the >> Irish >> language in conducting political, legal, or business affairs. They were >> also >> forbidden to wear Irish clothing, ride on Irish saddles, employ Irish >> poets >> or minstrels, use Irish greetings, or play hurling. The Statutes also >> defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement, the above-mentioned >> narrow strip of land. According to the Statutes, those living outside the >> Pale were henceforth considered "Irish enemies," and those inside >> "obedient." >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in >> the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

A must read, in my opinion: Meticulously researched in the USA, Ireland and England, "Paddy's Lament, Ireland 1846-47, Prelude to Hatred," by Thomas & Michael GALLAGHER (1982), is an eloquent, searing, haunting account of the great famine that will shock and move readers while providing a better understanding of the regrettable toxic (past) history between Ireland and England. Area-specific references: 1. D. H. Akenson, "The Irish in Ontario: A Study in Rural History" (1984) 2. D. H. Akenson, "Being Had: Historians, Evidence and the Irish in North America (1985) 3. C. J. Houston and W. J. Smyth, "Irish Emigration and Canadian Settlement: Partners, Links and Letters" (1990). 4. Adams, E., and O'Keeffe, B.B., "Catholic Trails West: The Founding Catholic Families Of Pennsylvania (Vol. 1., St. Joseph's Church, Philadelphia), pub. Baltimore by Genealogical Pub. Co. (LDS), 1988. 5. Bannon, T., "Pioneer Irish in Onondaga," pub. London, 1911. 6. Burchell, R. A., "San Francisco Irish, 1848-1880," pub. Manchester Univ. Press, 1979. 7. Callahan, "Irish-Americans and their Communities in Cleveland." 8. Clark, D., "The Irish Relations" (Irish-Americans in Philadelphia), pub.NJ 1982. 9. Clark, D., "The Irish in Philadelphia," pub Philadelphia, 1973. 10. Cullen, J. B., "Story of the Irish in Boston," pub. Boston, 1893. 11. Cushing, J., "Irish Emigration to St. John, New Brunswick, 1847," pub.St. John, 1979. 12. Donovan, G. F., "The Irish in Massachusetts, 1620-1775," pub. St.Louis, 1931. 13. Fanning, C. (ed.), "Mr. Dooley and the Chicago Irish," pub. NY, 1976. 14. Flannery, J. B., "The Irish Texans," pub. San Antonio, 1980. 15. Funchion, M. F., "The Irish in Chicago," pub. Chicago, 1987. 16. Funchion, M. F., "Chicago's Irish Nationalists 1881-1890," pub. NY, 1976. 17. Gearon, M. M., "Irish Settlers in Gardner, Massachusetts," pub.Gardner, 1932. 18. Guerin, T., "The Gael in New France," pub. Montreal, 1946. 19. 'Irish Settlers in early Delaware,' published in "Pennsylvania History," April 1947. 20. Kilkenny, J. F., 'The Irish of Morrow Co. Oregon,' "Historical Quarterly," June 1968. 21. MacDonald, "History of the Irish in Wisconsin in the 19th Century," pub. Washington, 1954. 22. Mackenzie, A. A., "The Irish in Cape Breton," pub. Cape Breton, 1979. 23. Mahony, M. E., "The Irish in Western Pennsylvania," pub. Pittsburgh, 1977. 24. "New England Irish Guide 1987," NLI Ir 973 n 6. 25. Niehaus, E. F., "The Irish in New Orleans 1800-1860," pub. Baton Rouge, 1965. 26. Oberster, W. H., "Texas Irish Empresarios and Their Colonies," pub.Austin, 1953. 27. O'Brien, M. J., "Pioneer Irish in New England," pub. NY 1937. 28. O'Brien, M. J., "In Old New York: Irish Dead in Trinity and St. Paul's Churchyards," pub. NY 1928. 29. O'Brien, M. J. 'Grantees of Land in Virginia,' in "Journal of the American Irish Historical Society," 13, 1913-14. 30. O'Gallagher, M., "St. Patrick's and St. Brigid's, Quebec," pub.Quebec, 1981. 31. Prendergast, T. F., "Forgotten Pioneers: Irish Leaders in Early California," pub. San Francisco, 1942. 32. Punch, T. M., "Some Sons of Erin in Nova Scotia," pub. Halifax, 1980. 33. Quigly, H., "The Irish Race in California and on the Pacific Coast," pub. San Francisco, 1878. 34. Redmond, P. M., "Irish Life in Rural Quebec," Duquesne, 1983. 35. Ryan, D. P., "Beyond the Ballot Box: Boston Irish 1845-1917," pub.London 1983. 36. Stewart, H. L., "The Irish in Nova Scotia," pub. Kentville, 1950. 37. Toner, P. M., "New Ireland Remembered: historical essays on the Irish in New Brunswick," pub. NB 1988. 38. Vinyard, J., "The Irish on the Urban Frontier" - (Irish in Detroit, MI 1850-1880), pub. NY 1976. 39. Williams, H. A., "History of the Hibernian Society of Baltimore 1803-1951," pub. Baltimore, 1951. To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Accounts - Famine Ship Voyages to Canada & Americafrom Ireland > If you make it to Ireland, the Dunbrody Famine Ship is worth the visit. It > sits in the harbour at New Ross, Co. Wexford and is also connected with > the > Kennedy family and the JFK Arboretum that sits just outside of New Ross. > <snip>

Hi Donna - "Angela's Ashes" by Frank McCourt (NY>Limerick>NY) is one of my very favorites. Regarding your query - a couple books come to mind: 1. The Irish emigrants fled a land of stunning beauty (Sligo) which could no longer support their meager lives, to seek refuge in an unknown country across the perilous seas. Voyages were made from Sligo to New York. An account of this is found in "In Their Own Words, the Famine in North Connacht," by Liam SWORDS. This 490-page book published in 2000 contains diaries and letters of people leaving from the port of Sligo for NY during the famine years. There are passenger lists from these "coffin" ships and information on the important role of the Society of Friends (Quakers) during the famine. Perhaps you can locate a copy. 2. Edward LAXTON in "The Famine Ships," pub. 1996, has many fascinating accounts: Chapters deal with voyages of particular ships and history of Ireland circa 1840s/50s. "In the summer of 1847, two thousand of LORD PALMERSTON's tenants sailed from Sligo and others were routed through Liverpool - all bound for Canada. Henry John TEMPLE, the THIRD VISCOUNT PALMERSTON, was very much an absentee landlord. As a career politician he was forced to spend all of his time in London. He became a cabinet minister in the British government as early as 1809, serving 15 years as Foreign Secretary, and later still, served two periods as Prime Minister. Unfortunately, the nine vessels carrying his former tenants from the port of Sligo were destined to join the ranks of the coffin ships and there was a subsequent uproar in Canada about the poor condition of the emigrants upon arrival. Protests flowed to the Colonial Secretary in London, and despite his lofty position in government, LORD PALMERSTON was officially asked for an explanation. Though ignorance should not be accepted as a deference, he deftly switched the blame to his Irish agents Messrs. KINCAID and STEWART, and their response, in a letter dated February 1, 1848 concluded: "The emigrants were unfortunately poor and without any means of support except what they could obtain by their labour, but that was their misfortune not their fault, and they were both able and willing to work for their bread and for the support of their family. Notwithstanding the reports from the authorities in Saint John and Quebec ... very favourable accounts arrive almost daily to their friends in this country from those who emigrated last year from LORD PALMERSTON's estate, and that already some of them have been able to send home money to their friends out of their earnings in the Colonies." LORD PALMERSTON was one of many who acted in much the same way. No one sought to deny that landlord emigration meant sending out of Ireland the tenants who were not wanted because they were too old or ill, or caused financial problems for their landlords, but good tenants who were young and healthy, who gave no trouble, who worked the land and paid their rents were apparently welcome to stay. There were many edges to the sword wielded by the absentee landlords." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Marstrander" <donna@marstrander.com> To: <IRELAND@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:08 AM Subject: [IRELAND] Irish reading material > Do you know of any good books to read about Irish immigration. I have read > Frank McCourt books. > Thanks, > Donna

Hi Sylvia - is this birthdate fixed? There is a James McCABE baptism on IGI for 1846 in Doon, Limerick with parents William and Mary. Also a brother Robert, baptised 1849. Have you checked that one out? Not sure if you tried the Limerick Heritage Centre - although I don't see a match on their search site. http://limerick.brsgenealogy.com/index.php Best wishes, Patsy - New Zealand PS you can find out a great deal about Irish history by just Googling. Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [IRELAND] The Pale/ Kilkenny > Ay you all seem to know alot about irish history ,maybe if i have not > asked before i need to find my grt grt grandad James McCabe born 1851 > limerick ireland i have asked so many folks who have been so helpfull to > me and i could not thank them enough,i am getting exhausted every were i > look ,,Thanks Sylvia

Gerald More Fitzgerald Redmondites: Followers of John Redmond, who succeeded Parnell as Irish Party (Constitutional Nationalists - Home Rulers) ) Leader in British Parliament Opposed by the physical force Republicans( I.R.B. and later Sinn Fein) Irish political parties (FF and FG) to this day reflect this dichotomy based on support of or opposition to the Anglo Irish Treaty agreed to by Mick Collins and accepted in January of 1922 by the Irish Dail - Which led to Civil War in June of 1922. Best bets for Norman origins is Wexford and Waterford where they landed in 1169 -1170. Plus Fitzgeralds in Co. Kildare I believe Plus Leinster House, Dublin once owned by the Fitzgeralds. Unfortunately no civil records until 1864 plus only 2 censi - 1911 and 1921 All others destroyed Good luck Ivan On 3/18/09 11:19 PM, "Mary Mizzi" <mmizzi@dodo.com.au> wrote: > Interesting History Ivan. When you mention the Norman Earl of Kildare, > Georoid Mor, would this person be connected to the FitzGerald Clan? Also > who were the Redmondites? > Just a thought..... as my g/g/grandfather was Timothy Fitzgerald b.1784 and > his father was called Redmond Fitzgerald. I am doing the family history of > this family but cannot find any history of him or his daughter, my > g/grandmother, when they were in Ireland,,,,Mary Ann, b.1837, Ireland ,who > married Thomas Hooley in Swansea in 1857, . Looking for links to counties I > should search. I have all their history in Wales. > I have been told that the Fitzgerald Family go back to 910 AD when they were > known as the Geraldinos/Gheradinos, who owned a large peice of Florence, > migrating to France, then coming across during the Norman Invasion and > settling in Wales and Ireland. Trying to link my lot with one of these > ancestors. > > Thanks for the interesting email, > Kind regards, > > Mary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ivan Lennon" <ilennon@rochester.rr.com> > To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:49 AM > Subject: [IRELAND] The Pale/ Kilkenny > > >> >> A chara >> >> Pale was first used in Ireland in 1495 to denote the fortified lowland >> region around Dublin that was subject to English rule. A locally paid and >> recruited force defended the Pale community from the 1470's >> until the mid 1530's. >> >> Re the 1366 Statutes of Kilkenny: They were largely ineffectual and, by >> the >> 1500's, wide- ranging control was exercised by the Norman Earl of >> Kildare, >> (Gearoid Mor). >> >> Welsh Normans first arrived in 1169 in Wexford and then Waterford in 1170. >> Ties were solidified w/ the marriage of Dermot's daughter to Strongbow >> >> Coincidentally it was nearly 750 years later (March 1922) that Portlairge >> was claimed for the Irish nation. An action generally not received warmly >> by the Redmondite inhabitants of Urbs Intacta. >> >> >> Slan agus beannacht >> >> >> >> >> On 3/18/09 2:58 PM, "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: >> >>> SNIPPET: The term "beyond the Pale" has its origins in 14th century >>> Ireland >>> in the Statutes of Kilkenny. These laws established a sweeping series of >>> prohibitions against fraternization between Anglo-Irish colonizers and >>> the >>> native Irish. They also defined what became known as the Pale of >>> Settlement >>> (pale comes from the Latin word Palus or fence post) a narrow strip of >>> land, >>> little more than 20 miles wide in most places, running north from >>> Waterford >>> to Dundalk on Ireland's eastern coast. Those living "beyond the pale" >>> were >>> considered "Irish enemies" not entitled to protection under English law. >>> >>> The Anglo-Normans who had arrived in the 1200s had rapidly became >>> Anglo-Irish, intermarrying with the native Irish and had taken on their >>> language, dress and customs. This was part of a larger revival of Irish >>> culture in this period known as the Gaelic Recovery. Events such as the >>> Black Death (an epidemic of bubonic and pneumonic plague that spread >>> rapidly >>> from Asia to Europe in the 1340s, arriving in the British Isles in the >>> summer of 1348, with resultant massive loss of life and social disorder) >>> had >>> crippled the English economy, sharply limiting the Crown's ability to >>> intervene in Ireland. >>> >>> The development of Irish identity among the colonizing families in >>> Ireland >>> had caused great concern to the British Crown. To reverse this trend, the >>> British viceroy in Ireland pushed through the Irish Parliament the >>> Statutes >>> of Kilkenny in 1366. Its preamble summed up the problem of British >>> conquest: >>> >>> "Now many English of the said land, forsaking the English language, >>> fashion, >>> mode of riding, laws and usages, live and govern themselves according to >>> the >>> manners, fashion, and the language of the Irish enemies, and also having >>> made divers marriages and alliances between themselves and the Irish >>> enemies >>> aforesaid ... the English language, the allegiance due to our Lord the >>> King >>> and the English laws there are put in subjection and decayed, and the >>> Irish >>> enemies exalted and raised up, contrary to right." >>> >>> The Statutes explicitly forbade intermarriage between the Irish and the >>> Anglo-Irish colonizers. The latter were prohibited from speaking the >>> Irish >>> language in conducting political, legal, or business affairs. They were >>> also >>> forbidden to wear Irish clothing, ride on Irish saddles, employ Irish >>> poets >>> or minstrels, use Irish greetings, or play hurling. The Statutes also >>> defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement, the above-mentioned >>> narrow strip of land. According to the Statutes, those living outside the >>> Pale were henceforth considered "Irish enemies," and those inside >>> "obedient." >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in >>> the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

A chara Pale was first used in Ireland in 1495 to denote the fortified lowland region around Dublin that was subject to English rule. A locally paid and recruited force defended the Pale community from the 1470's until the mid 1530's. Re the 1366 Statutes of Kilkenny: They were largely ineffectual and, by the 1500's, wide- ranging control was exercised by the Norman Earl of Kildare, (Gearoid Mor). Welsh Normans first arrived in 1169 in Wexford and then Waterford in 1170. Ties were solidified w/ the marriage of Dermot's daughter to Strongbow Coincidentally it was nearly 750 years later (March 1922) that Portlairge was claimed for the Irish nation. An action generally not received warmly by the Redmondite inhabitants of Urbs Intacta. Slan agus beannacht On 3/18/09 2:58 PM, "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: > SNIPPET: The term "beyond the Pale" has its origins in 14th century Ireland > in the Statutes of Kilkenny. These laws established a sweeping series of > prohibitions against fraternization between Anglo-Irish colonizers and the > native Irish. They also defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement > (pale comes from the Latin word Palus or fence post) a narrow strip of land, > little more than 20 miles wide in most places, running north from Waterford > to Dundalk on Ireland's eastern coast. Those living "beyond the pale" were > considered "Irish enemies" not entitled to protection under English law. > > The Anglo-Normans who had arrived in the 1200s had rapidly became > Anglo-Irish, intermarrying with the native Irish and had taken on their > language, dress and customs. This was part of a larger revival of Irish > culture in this period known as the Gaelic Recovery. Events such as the > Black Death (an epidemic of bubonic and pneumonic plague that spread rapidly > from Asia to Europe in the 1340s, arriving in the British Isles in the > summer of 1348, with resultant massive loss of life and social disorder) had > crippled the English economy, sharply limiting the Crown's ability to > intervene in Ireland. > > The development of Irish identity among the colonizing families in Ireland > had caused great concern to the British Crown. To reverse this trend, the > British viceroy in Ireland pushed through the Irish Parliament the Statutes > of Kilkenny in 1366. Its preamble summed up the problem of British conquest: > > "Now many English of the said land, forsaking the English language, fashion, > mode of riding, laws and usages, live and govern themselves according to the > manners, fashion, and the language of the Irish enemies, and also having > made divers marriages and alliances between themselves and the Irish enemies > aforesaid ... the English language, the allegiance due to our Lord the King > and the English laws there are put in subjection and decayed, and the Irish > enemies exalted and raised up, contrary to right." > > The Statutes explicitly forbade intermarriage between the Irish and the > Anglo-Irish colonizers. The latter were prohibited from speaking the Irish > language in conducting political, legal, or business affairs. They were also > forbidden to wear Irish clothing, ride on Irish saddles, employ Irish poets > or minstrels, use Irish greetings, or play hurling. The Statutes also > defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement, the above-mentioned > narrow strip of land. According to the Statutes, those living outside the > Pale were henceforth considered "Irish enemies," and those inside > "obedient." > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jean, A trully lovely Irish Story which I thoroughly enjoyed....and believe!! The part about the "haunting music" brought back my own memories of a strange and haunting story my Irish /Welsh parents told me. After they were married in Tralee, Mum and Dad went to visit a relative who had taken ill. When they visited her, she was surprisingly in good spirits and the local priest was there giving her Holy Communion. They were so happy to see her looking well and when they were leaving, they told her they would return the following week but she just gave them a beautiful smile and said that she would see them soon. Thinking that she meant she would see them the following week, they left the house and walked back home. It was getting dark and as they strolled along the lane, they heard this beautiful music. They wondered what band was playing along this deserted lane. The music came towards them but they could not see anythng. Getting frightened, they crouched by the side of the lane to let this "apparition" go by..the most glorious music and voices singing amidst the cold breeze that had just sprung up as it passed them by. When they were sure it had gone, they hurried home and told the relations what had happened. The old grandmother told them that they must all kneel and pray, as it was the soul of their relative being taken to heaven. They did not believe her but prayed anyway. They had been very frightened by the experience. Can you imagine their faces, when, early the next morning, the priest came and told them their relative had passed away not long after they had left the house.....about the same time as they heard the music coming down the lane. My brother and I used to tease my Dad in later years after my Mum had died, saying he and Mum told some good "ghost" stories about Ireland, but to his dying day, his face would get very serious, and he said that what happened to him and Mum was one of the most frightening things that had ever happened to them. Now Dad had fought in WW1 and saw the horrors and fear of war and had been badly wounded but said nothing frightened him in the War as much as that Apparition coming down that lane. So Jean, that "haunting music" certainly brought back memories. We dont know what happened over there in Ireland and it seems incredible that there were so many happenings that could not be explained. Thank you, Kind regards, Mary

Hi Joan - That would be lovely to see your CARTER scrapbook from Newberg, OR. When she Marjorie Eunice LEWIS was growing up in Newberg, her whole family were archers; Marjorie's father made the bows and arrows himself - from yew, I think. One of her brother's (Claude LEWIS) was a dentist. My children's grandmother, Mrs. Marjorie (Lewis) SIMMONS, born in Newberg in March 1913, never has had an ill word for anyone all these years I've known her. She came from a Quaker family of teachers in Newberg, OR, attended college in Wichita, KS, married W. G. SIMMONS ("Pete") there; their two sons Larry & Kenneth SIMMONS were born in Rose Hill, KS in the 1940s. Marjorie (Lewis) SIMMONS was a very femine woman, played classical music at the Eugene, OR Friends (Quaker) church - yet she worked along side her husband building new homes. She told me she had also raced a car once in a women's Powder Puff Derby! I literally saved her husband "Pete" from choking to death on a peanut-butter sandwich one day when I was a teenager and lived down the street. I hit him on the back with my fist as hard as a could (which took a lot of nerve, as I was very shy) and out shot the affending plug. Everyone else had thought he was having a heart attack and had been trying to phone the doctor. Minutes later, "Pete" and the rest of his family calmly went about their business as usual - I had to lie down to recover from my nerves! Marjorie told me she attended temperance church meetings with her mother as a child (must have been in Newberg, OR) and she sang a little ditty; I remember the third line was ... "We'll never, never drink the wine." She came to visit from Eugene, OR, to Spokane, WA, 3-4 years ago as a widow. Even in her 90's, Marjorie wanted to go to see the fireworks display in the park downtown; she also wished to ride the gondola strung on a cable line above the raging Spokane River/Fallss downtown, and her wishes were fulfilled. Everyone should have a mother-in-law like that! I just sent her a somewhat belated birthday present of a lovely print I purchased from a Spokane artist (little girl and her cat) - since she has always loved cats. My daughter matted and framed it beautifully and mailed it on down to Eugene. ***Now, I will have to recheck the HINSHAW website, but as a I recall a Quaker HINSHAW line that ties into "my" Quaker COX line go back in time to Quaker Meetings in Northern Ireland - perhaps Armagh. I'll check and compose another note.. I need to make a correction on my last note regarding my SIMMONS line - they were in Rose Hill, (Butler Co.) KS, in the early 1900s, but the generation before that they were in the Carolinas (likely NC). The first generation I am aware of is "my" William H. SIMMONS, SR. of NC (b. 7 Dec 1877) who apparently died 17 Dec1942 probably in Rose Hill (Butler Co. KS). I need to find a death notice on him!!!! He had married a young woman (17) in Clinton, IN, Mary Frances LYDA/LYDAY of that location in 1848, per Mary Frances' death notice. When she was 18, she and her husband were converted and united with the Baptist church. They later moved and there united with the Quaker church, probably in Rose Hill (Butler Co.) KS. They afterward united with the Free Methodist church where she belonged for over 16 years. They had nine children. Six were still living in the general area at the time of her death in Wichita, KS, in 1929 at the age of 81. Her husband, William H. SIMMONS had preceded her in death thirty years earlier. She remarried to Zopha Perry BALL on June 4, 1916. She had children, great-grandchildren, step children and stepchildren at the time of her death. (If memory serves me correctly William and Mary Frances SIMMONS' first son, Archibald, was born in Terre Haute, IN.) The next generation down ("Pete's) father, was William Henry "Chub" SIMMONS (JR.) who was a farmer in Rose Hill, KS, struck by lightening twice and lived to tell about it, husband of a very "no-nonsense" Quaker lady, Dora Ellen COX, who later died in OK but buried in Rose Hill, KS, and they farmed and had several children in that area.. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Whitney" <jwhitney@pacifier.com> To: <ireland@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [IRELAND] re your Newberg, OR Quaker connection,Kathryn -- Nora Sullivan 1869 > Hi Jean, we have corresponded before. My grandparents and their children > were Quakers and lived in Chehalem Center, (suburb of Newberg) from about > 1920 until the mid 1950's. My mother, Helen Carter, her sisters Edna, > Wanda > and Faye all attended Newberg High school, and also her brother Richard. > I > have a scrap book Nana put together of newspaper clippings and stories > about > the family and a lot of other Quaker families in the area. I have begun > to > put some of these articles online in the Quaker website- listed as, I > believe, Nana's scrapbook in the archives. When I get some time I will > try > to look and see if any of these names are mentioned. I will be making a > trip to Spokane this early summer ( I seem to remember you live there) My > memory may have failed me, but if you do live there, I will bring the > scrapbook for you to look thru if you are interested. <snip>

Ay you all seem to know alot about irish history ,maybe if i have not asked before i need to find my grt grt grandad James McCabe born 1851 limerick ireland i have asked so many folks who have been so helpfull to me and i could not thank them enough,i am getting exhausted every were i look ,,Thanks Sylvia Ivan Lennon wrote: > A chara > > Pale was first used in Ireland in 1495 to denote the fortified lowland > region around Dublin that was subject to English rule. A locally paid and > recruited force defended the Pale community from the 1470's > until the mid 1530's. > > Re the 1366 Statutes of Kilkenny: They were largely ineffectual and, by the > 1500's, wide- ranging control was exercised by the Norman Earl of Kildare, > (Gearoid Mor). > > Welsh Normans first arrived in 1169 in Wexford and then Waterford in 1170. > Ties were solidified w/ the marriage of Dermot's daughter to Strongbow > > Coincidentally it was nearly 750 years later (March 1922) that Portlairge > was claimed for the Irish nation. An action generally not received warmly > by the Redmondite inhabitants of Urbs Intacta. > > > Slan agus beannacht > > > > > On 3/18/09 2:58 PM, "Jean R." <jeanrice@cet.com> wrote: > > >> SNIPPET: The term "beyond the Pale" has its origins in 14th century Ireland >> in the Statutes of Kilkenny. These laws established a sweeping series of >> prohibitions against fraternization between Anglo-Irish colonizers and the >> native Irish. They also defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement >> (pale comes from the Latin word Palus or fence post) a narrow strip of land, >> little more than 20 miles wide in most places, running north from Waterford >> to Dundalk on Ireland's eastern coast. Those living "beyond the pale" were >> considered "Irish enemies" not entitled to protection under English law. >> >> The Anglo-Normans who had arrived in the 1200s had rapidly became >> Anglo-Irish, intermarrying with the native Irish and had taken on their >> language, dress and customs. This was part of a larger revival of Irish >> culture in this period known as the Gaelic Recovery. Events such as the >> Black Death (an epidemic of bubonic and pneumonic plague that spread rapidly >> from Asia to Europe in the 1340s, arriving in the British Isles in the >> summer of 1348, with resultant massive loss of life and social disorder) had >> crippled the English economy, sharply limiting the Crown's ability to >> intervene in Ireland. >> >> The development of Irish identity among the colonizing families in Ireland >> had caused great concern to the British Crown. To reverse this trend, the >> British viceroy in Ireland pushed through the Irish Parliament the Statutes >> of Kilkenny in 1366. Its preamble summed up the problem of British conquest: >> >> "Now many English of the said land, forsaking the English language, fashion, >> mode of riding, laws and usages, live and govern themselves according to the >> manners, fashion, and the language of the Irish enemies, and also having >> made divers marriages and alliances between themselves and the Irish enemies >> aforesaid ... the English language, the allegiance due to our Lord the King >> and the English laws there are put in subjection and decayed, and the Irish >> enemies exalted and raised up, contrary to right." >> >> The Statutes explicitly forbade intermarriage between the Irish and the >> Anglo-Irish colonizers. The latter were prohibited from speaking the Irish >> language in conducting political, legal, or business affairs. They were also >> forbidden to wear Irish clothing, ride on Irish saddles, employ Irish poets >> or minstrels, use Irish greetings, or play hurling. The Statutes also >> defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement, the above-mentioned >> narrow strip of land. According to the Statutes, those living outside the >> Pale were henceforth considered "Irish enemies," and those inside >> "obedient." >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >> the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

SNIPPET: The term "beyond the Pale" has its origins in 14th century Ireland in the Statutes of Kilkenny. These laws established a sweeping series of prohibitions against fraternization between Anglo-Irish colonizers and the native Irish. They also defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement (pale comes from the Latin word Palus or fence post) a narrow strip of land, little more than 20 miles wide in most places, running north from Waterford to Dundalk on Ireland's eastern coast. Those living "beyond the pale" were considered "Irish enemies" not entitled to protection under English law. The Anglo-Normans who had arrived in the 1200s had rapidly became Anglo-Irish, intermarrying with the native Irish and had taken on their language, dress and customs. This was part of a larger revival of Irish culture in this period known as the Gaelic Recovery. Events such as the Black Death (an epidemic of bubonic and pneumonic plague that spread rapidly from Asia to Europe in the 1340s, arriving in the British Isles in the summer of 1348, with resultant massive loss of life and social disorder) had crippled the English economy, sharply limiting the Crown's ability to intervene in Ireland. The development of Irish identity among the colonizing families in Ireland had caused great concern to the British Crown. To reverse this trend, the British viceroy in Ireland pushed through the Irish Parliament the Statutes of Kilkenny in 1366. Its preamble summed up the problem of British conquest: "Now many English of the said land, forsaking the English language, fashion, mode of riding, laws and usages, live and govern themselves according to the manners, fashion, and the language of the Irish enemies, and also having made divers marriages and alliances between themselves and the Irish enemies aforesaid ... the English language, the allegiance due to our Lord the King and the English laws there are put in subjection and decayed, and the Irish enemies exalted and raised up, contrary to right." The Statutes explicitly forbade intermarriage between the Irish and the Anglo-Irish colonizers. The latter were prohibited from speaking the Irish language in conducting political, legal, or business affairs. They were also forbidden to wear Irish clothing, ride on Irish saddles, employ Irish poets or minstrels, use Irish greetings, or play hurling. The Statutes also defined what became known as the Pale of Settlement, the above-mentioned narrow strip of land. According to the Statutes, those living outside the Pale were henceforth considered "Irish enemies," and those inside "obedient."

Hi Jean yes i love these kind of stories i can not wait to get back to Ireland , We would live there if we could ,,sylvia Mary Mizzi wrote: > Hi Jean, > A trully lovely Irish Story which I thoroughly enjoyed....and believe!! > > The part about the "haunting music" brought back my own memories of a > strange and haunting story my Irish /Welsh parents told me. > > After they were married in Tralee, Mum and Dad went to visit a relative > who had taken ill. When they visited her, she was surprisingly in good > spirits and the local priest was there giving her Holy Communion. They were > so happy to see her looking well and when they were leaving, they told her > they would return the following week but she just gave them a beautiful > smile and said that she would see them soon. Thinking that she meant she > would see them the following week, they left the house and walked back home. > > It was getting dark and as they strolled along the lane, they heard this > beautiful music. They wondered what band was playing along this deserted > lane. The music came towards them but they could not see anythng. Getting > frightened, they crouched by the side of the lane to let this "apparition" > go by..the most glorious music and voices singing amidst the cold breeze > that had just sprung up as it passed them by. > > When they were sure it had gone, they hurried home and told the relations > what had happened. The old grandmother told them that they must all kneel > and pray, as it was the soul of their relative being taken to heaven. They > did not believe her but prayed anyway. They had been very frightened by the > experience. > Can you imagine their faces, when, early the next morning, the priest came > and told them their relative had passed away not long after they had left > the house.....about the same time as they heard the music coming down the > lane. > > My brother and I used to tease my Dad in later years after my Mum had died, > saying he and Mum told some good "ghost" stories about Ireland, but to his > dying day, his face would get very serious, and he said that what happened > to him and Mum was one of the most frightening things that had ever happened > to them. Now Dad had fought in WW1 and saw the horrors and fear of war and > had been badly wounded but said nothing frightened him in the War as much as > that Apparition coming down that lane. > > So Jean, that "haunting music" certainly brought back memories. We dont know > what happened over there in Ireland and it seems incredible that there were > so many happenings that could not be explained. > > Thank you, > > Kind regards, > > Mary > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRELAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >