AN ARGUMENT I've oft been told by learned friars, That wishing and the crime are one, And Heaven punishes desires As much as if the deed were done. If wishing damns us, you and I Are damned to all our heart's content; Come, then, at least we may enjoy Some pleasure for our punishment! -- Thomas MOORE

SNIPPET: If you believe your ancestors had a connection to the MOOREs of Drogheda and Dublin, you might wish to obtain a back issue (Nov-Dec 2002) of "Ireland of the Welcomes" at www.irelandofthewelcomes.com. Published was a detailed, reader-friendly, ten-page article concerning the MOORE family, made all the more interesting with many illustrations. The authoress, Fiana GRIFFIN, wished to acknowledge the National Museum of Ireland, Dublin, for the use of their book: "The Family of Moore by the Countess of Drogheda." In 1666, a visitor to Dublin declared that O'CONNELL Street (then called Sackville Mall) exceeded any street in London "for elegance of plan and architecture." In 1799, the artist James MALTON went even further when he described it as the "noblest street in Europe, inhabited by persons of the first rank and opulence." With its exceptional width and distinctive promenade down the centre, O'Connell Street has preserved some of the aura of elegance and privilege it once enjoyed. Still the principal street of the city, it acquired its dimensions and status indirectly as the result of a long-drawn out court case between the Earls of Drogheda and Clanbrassil. The greatest boom in Dublin property development had begun in the 1660s, when peace and stability returned to the country after the Cromwellian wars and the crushing of the Catholic rebellions of the 1640s. The King of England was on his throne and the Viceroy, the Duke of Ormonde, was back in Dublin. At that time the city centre was further east than it is today, centered on the old Custom House, now gone, on the south side of the Liffey. It was a medieval town with dirty, narrow winding streets, houses with fronts that projected unequally into the streets and chronic traffic problems that obliged Dublin Corporation to regulate the number of Hackney coaches to thirty. A number of entrepreneurial landlords, many of them titled and holding public office, acquired tracts of land adjoining the city limits to the north and east where they laid out new, straight, residential streets with uniform frontage. One of these propertied aristocrats was Sir Henry MOORE, 1st Earl of Drogheda, whose Great-Grandfather had come to Ireland in the time of Henry VIII. When Henry VIII seriously began to anglicise Ireland in the early 16th century, one of his first steps was, the Dissolution of the Monasteries. According to this Act, all monastic houses and their estates under crown control were to be appropriated and given or leased to loyal supporters. The first Cistercian Abbey founded in Ireland was at Mellifont, 'sweet waters' in a secluded spot beside a river in Co. Louth, on the borders of the unconquered north. In 1539, the abbot and monks were forced to abandon their home, church and lands, which were then leased to Sir William BRABAZON, Vice-treasurer, and his wife Elizabeth CLIFFORD. When BRABAZON died, she married again. On the death of her second husband she took another, who also died. Undaunted by her record, 28-year-old Edward MOORE from Kent (England) became her fourth husband in 1563, built himself a fortified castle at Mellifont and had two sons by her before she died and he married again. In 1566, Queen Elizabeth I granted Edward MOORE the Abbey and estate of Mellifont, in perpetuity, and later knighted him. Although he became Pivy Councillor and played an important role in the English administration of Ireland, MOORE also cultivated the friendship of native Irish chieftains. He was not afraid to shelter the 19-year-old Red Hugh O'DONNELL when he arrived, exhausted and with frost-bitten feet, at Mellifont in 1592, having escaped from Dublin Castle after four years' imprisonment. MOORE had known O'DONNELL's father well - a fact still important today in dynastic Irish politics. I won't go into any more detail except to say that other individuals mentioned in the article include Henry MOORE, Governor of Meath and Louth, Sir Garrett MOORE, Hugh O'NEILL, Oliver CROMWELL, Henry MOORE, 1st Earl of Drogheda, Charles MOORE and wife Laetitia ROBARTES. Also mentioned are a dramatic author called WYCHERLEY, Alice MOORE, Lord Henry HAMILTON of Clanbrassil, Lionel SACKVILLE, Duke of Dorset/Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, and Luke GARDINER. There is Gabriel BERANGER's drawing of Mellifont Abbey, Co. Louth, the first Cistercian Abbey to be founded in the country in the 12th century; in 1566, the Abbey was granted to Edward MOORE by ELIZABETH I. There is a marvelous two-page view of Sackville Street, Dublin, with NELSON's Pillar in the centre, a lithographic published by NEWMAN & Co. London around 1845. Another later view of Sackville Street, dates from the mid 1850s, published by William COLLINS & Co. of London, Glasgow and Edinburgh. A HOLBROOK lithograph of Carlisle Bridge and the Custom House (with tall masts of ships in the background) formed part of a larger series of twelve views of Dublin published circa 1826. Other illustrations include St. Mary's Abbey circa 1820 from the Irish School collection of the National Gallery of Ireland; nearby stood Henry MOORE's town house in Dublin. There is a directory map of the new plan of the city in 1804, engraved for WILSON's Dublin Directory and published by W. CORBET of 57 Great Britain Street. An amusing and colorful caricature of "The Terrified Dandies, a Scene on Carlisle Bridge" (referring to a buxom, barefoot Irish wench who tempts them with a kiss!). There is a Charles BROOKING's map of Dublin dating back to 1728; Engraving of Sackville Street by J. C. McRAE, published by Thomas KELLY, New York; a print from the early 1760s showing Luke GARDINER's plan of Dublin, with Sackville Street and Gardiner's Mall; and a watercolour of Luke GARDINER, Viscount Mountjoy, by H. HONE.

SNIPPET: Thomas MOORE and Wolfe TONE are seldom thought of in the same context. However, the stereotypes of MOORE ("Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms," and "The Last Rose of Summer") as the sentimental songwriter singing for his supper in English drawingrooms and of TONE as the violent revolutionary obscure essential similarities in the lives and works of the two men. The common factor is the United Irishmen movement of the 1790s. While MOORE never became a violent revolutionary, he was a close friend of many of the United Irishmen and shared their ideals of political liberty and religious equality. MOORE propagated those ideals in his songs and satires long after TONE and Robert EMMET, MOORE's closest friend, had been executed as rebels. MOORE's "Irish Melodies" were influenced by the many songs celebrating Ireland and lamenting her woes which the United Irishmen had written to popular tunes. Yet it was EMMET who discouraged MOORE from becoming actively involved in the United Irish rebellion. When MOORE's 'Letter to Trinity College Dublin Students' appeared anonymously in the Dublin United Irishmen's newspaper in December 1797, his parents were shocked to discover he was the author. In it MOORE asked his fellow students, "Can you see poor Ireland degraded, tortured, without burning to be revenged on her damned tormentors?" and called upon them to "die for Ireland's liberties." MOORE heeded EMMET's advice to obey his parents' wishes that he not participate in the rebellion. Yet the United Irish uprising of 1798 and EMMET's rebellion of 1803 haunted MOORE for the rest of his life. The phrase 'so link'd together' in the last stanza of 'Oft in the Stilly Night' clearly refers to the United Irishmen: "When I remember all/The friends, so link'd together/I've seen around me fall/Like leaves in wintry weather/I feel like one who treads alone/Some banquet hall deserted/Whose lights are fled, whose garlands dead/And all but he departed/Thus, in the stilly night/Ere slumber's chain has bound me/Sad mem'ry brings the light/Of other days around me." -- (Mary Helen THUENTE, President American Conference of Irish Studies, Lecturer, English and Linguistics Dept., Indiana University, 'Thomas Moore and the United Irishmen,' Dublin's "Ireland of the Welcomes" magazine Sept-Oct 1991).

SNIPPET: Built in 1795, Moore House, near Lough Carra, between Claremorris and Ballinarobe, Co. Mayo, was torched like many others for political reasons during the 1920s and remains a shell. It was the family home to a landed Catholic gentry family that produced several noteworthy individuals including George Henry MOORE (1810-1870). As an MP for Mayo and a caring landlord, he fought for the rights of his tenants. When his horse, Coranna, won the Chester Cup in 1845, he used his immense winnings to save his estate and tenants from the worst part of the famine. He imported thousands of tons of grain and gave a cow to each tenant family. It is said that no one died on the estate during the famine and no eviction was ever recorded. MOORE was educated at Oscott (a Catholic school in England) and at Cambridge. When he died, it was the poor who came from all over Mayo to his funeral. . ..

While I'm hesitant to say this because I'm probably risking expulsion from this list which is vital to my research, after watching many hours of programs about science(DNA) and Egyptian mummy "recovery", both "sides" have valid points. DNA can be compared from several thousand year old mummies BUT it takes highly specialized equipement, a controlled room, the necessary training AND a properly preserved mummy. What are the odds Scota was mummified in the ancient Egyptian manner? Didn't happen is my guess, so basically, you've got no DNA evidence. DNA can only be compared female to female, male to male (which is what has been stated already) because of where the genetic markers for comparison are placed, so unless you've got a daughter to compare with you've got nothing, again. You also have to take into account centuries and generations of genetic dilution, IF your family did descend, there is little or no chance of finding any kind of correlative evidence. You mentioned that you have the paper records, fantastic if you do, go for it but , 150- 200 generations of your family that go back 4000 years.. how did they survive? You actually have documents that date back to at least 1300 B.C.E.? That is a historians, genealogists and archealogists dream! You are very lucky. I wish I had that kind of evidence for my family then I wouldn't be missing my great-great grandfathers siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents and other relatives. Well, I'm out. Hope I didn't cause too much of a stir. Kate _________________________________________________________________

Mary, This is also in the encyclopedia as well. I understand what you are saying. Maybe the people in Ireland should start an investigation since Scota was such a important person, which it can be done, they find stuff all the time in Eypt, so why not in other places. jamie -----Original Message----- From: Mary Ellen Chambers <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 1:41 pm Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota Jamie~ I think what is being said and also, the books and web site you mentioned ALL allude to characters of Irish myth. There is not actual proof they ever existed. To trace back 4000 yrs. BC from 2008 AD is really a stretch. Even using DNA I would think one would come to a point where it would no longer be possible. The grave site per the article is just a guess and the marking stones are judged to be a fake. If there was any chance that the site you mentioned could have any archaeological value, I truly believe the Irish ones would be all over it long ago. Just take the Ceide Fields in Mayo as an example of a 5000 yr. old dig which has given great number of artifacts. The past is too important to the Irish to ignore something that just might give them a bit more of their past. As with all myths there are probably some bits of truth but all these thousands of years later would be extremely or even impossible to prove. Scota and other Irish Queens of myth are interesting ladies which the story tellers and ballad makers told down through the centuries. As for actual, factual data re: her and/or her progeny there is really none but the tales re: their exploits are numerous. For example at Belleek (SP?) Castle which is a hotel in Ballina, County Mayo there is a saddle in their small museum which is to have belonged to Queen Mauve of legend. It was in pretty good shape for an article which is so old. However, the old myths are wonderful folklore to share with ones children and share on a cold night in front of a fire. Mary Ellen [email protected] wrote: How is that? Please verify. jamie -----Original Message----- From: Michael O'Rourke To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:54 pm Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota On 1/15/2008 8:45:48 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Mary, > > My oldest son is descended from their son Heremon. Here is some info. I believe you're confusing genealogy with mythology. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

If you are asking me to get DNA for proof well we all know that is impossible. If you have the records to go back that far, that is all you need, yes DNA can prove relationship between two people, like father and son and/or daughter or mother and son and/or daughter...but we all know there is no way we can go back that far by testing someone's blood if the other party isn't present. That is why you go by records, such as church, census, birth and so forth, I have many certificates from different counties belonging to First families of that county, and yes we had to send in proof, doesn't mean I had to give blood or anything, I had to send in proof, black and white on paper. Yes there are records that old have existed. I don't know about Ireland and what records they have, but we have records here in United States going back to early 1600's. I do have the decendents of Heremon as well. jamie -----Original Message----- From: Brenda Paternoster <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 1:29 pm Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota On 16 Jan 2008, at 04:34, [email protected] wrote: > It doesn't have to be just from the male line or the female line, if > you descend from a person that is your blood....my oldest son descends > from Scota's first son EOCHAIDH I PICT or Heremon. > > !Kinship of Families by A.F. Bennett OK, he may well descend from Eochaidh i Pict, but what proof do you have? Written records do not go back that far. > > > > Ancestry and Progeny of Captain James Blount - Inmigrant. by Robert > Ffafman p. E- 19. > States the second King of Ireland name as Heremon (Eremon), who has > Milesius eldest son. He led Gaedil to Ireland. Do you have proof of his descent from Heremon? > > > > !All of Milesius' descendants conquered Ireland. Heremon and his > brother, Heber, and their direct descendants ruled either jointly or > separately for many generations in much bitterness. Tradtion says > Heremon married the daughter of King Zedekiah after he was rescued > from the Babylonians by the prophet Jeremiah and brought to Egypt for > Safety. Tradition can say anything you want it to. Do you have proof? I will state again: the only way you can be SURE of descent from any individual 4000+ years ago is via DNA testing - the all male line with Y-DNA or the all female lines with mitochondrial DNA. All the other mixed male & female lines of descent through around 150 generations cannot be traced back that far. Records simply do not exist. Brenda in Allhallows, Kent http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Thank you Jamie. I have looked up the website you mentioned below. And have read with interest. I will certainly keep an open mind regarding Princess Scota. Hilda COOPER. Tasmania. Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > > Here is the information > > > > http://indigo.ie/~marrya/scota.html > > jamie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hilda Cooper <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 1:59 am > Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > > > > > This sounds interesting to say the least. Could you please enlighten this > non-Irish person (English and living in Australia) as to who Scota is. > Hilda Cooper nee Fudge with WEBSTER/MURRAY/FUDGE/BOUGH Ancestors. From > Forth, Tasmania. Australia. > Thanking you in advance. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:05 PM > Subject: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > > >> Hello, >> >> I would like to know if anyone knows if there might be a picture of the >> grave of Scota. My oldest son descends from her. Here is some >> information: >> >> Scota is buried on the sloped mountains in view of Tralee Bay at a place >> called Glenscoheen (Scota's Glenn). Irish archaeologists have not yet >> carried out any investigation on the site, which consists of woodland and >> natural rocks. The Ordnance Survey of Ireland has shown the actual >> location of the burial of Scota. >> >> jamie >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - >> http://webmail.aol.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jamie~ I think what is being said and also, the books and web site you mentioned ALL allude to characters of Irish myth. There is not actual proof they ever existed. To trace back 4000 yrs. BC from 2008 AD is really a stretch. Even using DNA I would think one would come to a point where it would no longer be possible. The grave site per the article is just a guess and the marking stones are judged to be a fake. If there was any chance that the site you mentioned could have any archaeological value, I truly believe the Irish ones would be all over it long ago. Just take the Ceide Fields in Mayo as an example of a 5000 yr. old dig which has given great number of artifacts. The past is too important to the Irish to ignore something that just might give them a bit more of their past. As with all myths there are probably some bits of truth but all these thousands of years later would be extremely or even impossible to prove. Scota and other Irish Queens of myth are interesting ladies which the story tellers and ballad makers told down through the centuries. As for actual, factual data re: her and/or her progeny there is really none but the tales re: their exploits are numerous. For example at Belleek (SP?) Castle which is a hotel in Ballina, County Mayo there is a saddle in their small museum which is to have belonged to Queen Mauve of legend. It was in pretty good shape for an article which is so old. However, the old myths are wonderful folklore to share with ones children and share on a cold night in front of a fire. Mary Ellen [email protected] wrote: How is that? Please verify. jamie -----Original Message----- From: Michael O'Rourke To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:54 pm Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota On 1/15/2008 8:45:48 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Mary, > > My oldest son is descended from their son Heremon. Here is some info. I believe you're confusing genealogy with mythology. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How is that? Please verify. jamie -----Original Message----- From: Michael O'Rourke <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:54 pm Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota On 1/15/2008 8:45:48 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Mary, > > My oldest son is descended from their son Heremon. Here is some info. I believe you're confusing genealogy with mythology. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Hello, My husband's great-grandparents were a GAVIN / WHELAN couple from County Galway, Ireland. They came to Massachusetts in the 1860's. I'd like to offer an FYI that earlier this month I Adopted the GAVIN List. There are only 28 subscribers, and I'd like to invite others to join us. It is fine with me to include other spellings of the name, like GAVAN. This is the information page: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/g/gavin.html Thank you for your time. Betty (near Lowell, MA, USA) We may have arrived on different ships but we're all in the same boat now. :o) (thinking genealogy) (possibly first said by Martin Luther King, Jr.)

Mary, My oldest son is descended from their son Heremon. Here is some info. !Kinship of Families by A.F. Bennett Ancestry and Progeny of Captain James Blount - Inmigrant. by Robert Ffafman p. E- 19. States the second King of Ireland name as Heremon (Eremon), who has Milesius eldest son. He led Gaedil to Ireland. !All of Milesius' descendants conquered Ireland. Heremon and his brother, Heber, and their direct descendants ruled either jointly or separately for many generations in much bitterness. Tradtion says Heremon married the daughter of King Zedekiah after he was rescued from the Babylonians by the prophet Jeremiah and brought to Egypt for Safety. REIGNED: King of Heremon FILE: Royal Line (Adamic Genealogy) March 1980, Albert F. Schmuhl I researched some thru Wipiki, encyclopedia site, still have more to verify yet. jamie -----Original Message----- From: Mary Ellen Chambers <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:30 am Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota Jamie~ I went to the site you listed for info. Interesting but it all takes place 4000-50000 BC. Thus, was wondering how you could trace your roots and/or your son's roots directly back to this mythical Queen. It's quite difficult to trace back in Ireland pre 1864! This is a lovely place and would make a wonderful grave site if proved. Please tell us your journey of research to get to this ancient time. Mary Ellen Chambers [email protected] wrote: Here is the information http://indigo.ie/~marrya/scota.html jamie -----Original Message----- From: Hilda Cooper To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 1:59 am Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota This sounds interesting to say the least. Could you please enlighten this non-Irish person (English and living in Australia) as to who Scota is. Hilda Cooper nee Fudge with WEBSTER/MURRAY/FUDGE/BOUGH Ancestors. From Forth, Tasmania. Australia. Thanking you in advance. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:05 PM Subject: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > Hello, > > I would like to know if anyone knows if there might be a picture of the > grave of Scota. My oldest son descends from her. Here is some information: > > Scota is buried on the sloped mountains in view of Tralee Bay at a place > called Glenscoheen (Scota's Glenn). Irish archaeologists have not yet > carried out any investigation on the site, which consists of woodland and > natural rocks. The Ordnance Survey of Ireland has shown the actual > location of the burial of Scota. > > jamie > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Brenda, It doesn't have to be just from the male line or the female line, if you descend from a person that is your blood....my oldest son descends from Scota's first son EOCHAIDH I PICT or Heremon. !Kinship of Families by A.F. Bennett Ancestry and Progeny of Captain James Blount - Inmigrant. by Robert Ffafman p. E- 19. States the second King of Ireland name as Heremon (Eremon), who has Milesius eldest son. He led Gaedil to Ireland. !All of Milesius' descendants conquered Ireland. Heremon and his brother, Heber, and their direct descendants ruled either jointly or separately for many generations in much bitterness. Tradtion says Heremon married the daughter of King Zedekiah after he was rescued from the Babylonians by the prophet Jeremiah and brought to Egypt for Safety. REIGNED: King of Heremon FILE: Royal Line (Adamic Genealogy) March 1980, Albert F. Schmuhl Just trying to see if anyone was able to find Scota's grave. jamie -----Original Message----- From: Brenda Paternoster <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 4:43 pm Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota The only way you can say a person descends from one who lived 4000 years ago is through DNA - and only if it's from the Y chromosome DNA on an unbroken male line or the mitochondrial DNA on an unbroken female line. A woman does not have a Y-chromosome and sons do not pass on their mitochondrial DNA, so how can anyone claim to be descended from Scotia who only had two surviving sons?????? Brenda On 15 Jan 2008, at 16:30, Mary Ellen Chambers wrote: > Jamie~ > I went to the site you listed for info. Interesting but it > all takes place 4000-50000 BC. Thus, was wondering how you could > trace your roots and/or your son's roots directly back to this > mythical Queen. It's quite difficult to trace back in Ireland pre > 1864! > This is a lovely place and would make a wonderful grave site > if proved. > Please tell us your journey of research to get to this ancient > time. > > Mary Ellen Chambers > > [email protected] wrote: > > Here is the information > > > > http://indigo.ie/~marrya/scota.html > > jamie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hilda Cooper > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 1:59 am > Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > > > > > This sounds interesting to say the least. Could you please enlighten > this > non-Irish person (English and living in Australia) as to who Scota is. > Hilda Cooper nee Fudge with WEBSTER/MURRAY/FUDGE/BOUGH Ancestors. From > Forth, Tasmania. Australia. > Thanking you in advance. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:05 PM > Subject: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > > >> Hello, >> >> I would like to know if anyone knows if there might be a picture of >> the >> grave of Scota. My oldest son descends from her. Here is some >> information: >> >> Scota is buried on the sloped mountains in view of Tralee Bay at a >> place >> called Glenscoheen (Scota's Glenn). Irish archaeologists have not yet >> carried out any investigation on the site, which consists of woodland >> and >> natural rocks. The Ordnance Survey of Ireland has shown the actual >> location of the burial of Scota. >> >> jamie >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> __ >> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - >> http://webmail.aol.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > the message > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Brenda in Allhallows, Kent http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

The only way you can say a person descends from one who lived 4000 years ago is through DNA - and only if it's from the Y chromosome DNA on an unbroken male line or the mitochondrial DNA on an unbroken female line. A woman does not have a Y-chromosome and sons do not pass on their mitochondrial DNA, so how can anyone claim to be descended from Scotia who only had two surviving sons?????? Brenda On 15 Jan 2008, at 16:30, Mary Ellen Chambers wrote: > Jamie~ > I went to the site you listed for info. Interesting but it > all takes place 4000-50000 BC. Thus, was wondering how you could > trace your roots and/or your son's roots directly back to this > mythical Queen. It's quite difficult to trace back in Ireland pre > 1864! > This is a lovely place and would make a wonderful grave site > if proved. > Please tell us your journey of research to get to this ancient > time. > > Mary Ellen Chambers > > [email protected] wrote: > > Here is the information > > > > http://indigo.ie/~marrya/scota.html > > jamie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hilda Cooper > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 1:59 am > Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > > > > > This sounds interesting to say the least. Could you please enlighten > this > non-Irish person (English and living in Australia) as to who Scota is. > Hilda Cooper nee Fudge with WEBSTER/MURRAY/FUDGE/BOUGH Ancestors. From > Forth, Tasmania. Australia. > Thanking you in advance. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:05 PM > Subject: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > > >> Hello, >> >> I would like to know if anyone knows if there might be a picture of >> the >> grave of Scota. My oldest son descends from her. Here is some >> information: >> >> Scota is buried on the sloped mountains in view of Tralee Bay at a >> place >> called Glenscoheen (Scota's Glenn). Irish archaeologists have not yet >> carried out any investigation on the site, which consists of woodland >> and >> natural rocks. The Ordnance Survey of Ireland has shown the actual >> location of the burial of Scota. >> >> jamie >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> __ >> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - >> http://webmail.aol.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > the message > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Brenda in Allhallows, Kent http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html

On 1/15/2008 8:45:48 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Mary, > > My oldest son is descended from their son Heremon. Here is some info. I believe you're confusing genealogy with mythology.

This sounds interesting to say the least. Could you please enlighten this non-Irish person (English and living in Australia) as to who Scota is. Hilda Cooper nee Fudge with WEBSTER/MURRAY/FUDGE/BOUGH Ancestors. From Forth, Tasmania. Australia. Thanking you in advance. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:05 PM Subject: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > Hello, > > I would like to know if anyone knows if there might be a picture of the > grave of Scota. My oldest son descends from her. Here is some information: > > Scota is buried on the sloped mountains in view of Tralee Bay at a place > called Glenscoheen (Scota's Glenn). Irish archaeologists have not yet > carried out any investigation on the site, which consists of woodland and > natural rocks. The Ordnance Survey of Ireland has shown the actual > location of the burial of Scota. > > jamie > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

THE REBEL I come of the seed of the people, the people that sorrow, That have no treasure but hope, No riches laid up but a memory Of an ancient glory. My mother bore me in bondage, in bondage my mother was born, I am the blood of serfs; The children with whom I have played, the men and women with whom I have eaten, Have had masters over them, they have been under the lash of masters. And, though gentle, have served churls; The hands that have touched mine, the dear hands whose touch is familiar to me, Have worn shameful manacles, have been bitten at the wrist by manacles. Have grown hard with the manacles and the task-work of strangers, I am flesh of the flesh of these lowly, I am bone of their bone, I have never submitted; I that have a soul greater than the souls of my people's masters, I have vision and prophecy and the gift of fiery speech, I that have spoken with God on the top of His holy hill. And because I am of the people, I understand the people, I am sorrowful with their sorrow, I am hungry with their desire: My heart has been heavy with the grief of mothers, My eyes have been wet with the tears of children, I have yearned with old wistful men, And laughed or cursed with young men; Their shame is my shame, and I have reddened for it, Reddened for that they have gone in want, while others have been full, Reddened for that they have walked in fear of lawyers and of their jailors With their writs of summons and their handcuffs, Men mean and cruel! I could have borne stripes on my body rather than this shame of my people. I say to my people that they are holy, that they are august, despite their chains, That they are greater than those that hold them, and stronger and purer, That they have put need of courage, and to call on the name of their God, God the unforgetting, the dear God that loves the peoples For whom He died naked, suffering shame. And I say to my people's masters: Beware, Beware of the thing that is coming, beware of the risen people, Who shall take what ye would not give. Did ye think to conquer the people, Or that Law is stronger than life and than men's desire to be free? We will try it out with you, ye that have harried and held, Ye that have bullied and bribed, tyrants, hypocrites, liars! -- Patrick Pearse (1879-1916), the charismatic leader of the April 1916 rebellion, was executed on 3 May 1916 in Kilmainham Prison. He was born in Dublin 10 November 1879, wrote much of his poetry in his cottage in Connemara, Co. Galway.

Here is the information http://indigo.ie/~marrya/scota.html jamie -----Original Message----- From: Hilda Cooper <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 1:59 am Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota This sounds interesting to say the least. Could you please enlighten this non-Irish person (English and living in Australia) as to who Scota is. Hilda Cooper nee Fudge with WEBSTER/MURRAY/FUDGE/BOUGH Ancestors. From Forth, Tasmania. Australia. Thanking you in advance. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:05 PM Subject: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > Hello, > > I would like to know if anyone knows if there might be a picture of the > grave of Scota. My oldest son descends from her. Here is some information: > > Scota is buried on the sloped mountains in view of Tralee Bay at a place > called Glenscoheen (Scota's Glenn). Irish archaeologists have not yet > carried out any investigation on the site, which consists of woodland and > natural rocks. The Ordnance Survey of Ireland has shown the actual > location of the burial of Scota. > > jamie > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Jamie~ I went to the site you listed for info. Interesting but it all takes place 4000-50000 BC. Thus, was wondering how you could trace your roots and/or your son's roots directly back to this mythical Queen. It's quite difficult to trace back in Ireland pre 1864! This is a lovely place and would make a wonderful grave site if proved. Please tell us your journey of research to get to this ancient time. Mary Ellen Chambers [email protected] wrote: Here is the information http://indigo.ie/~marrya/scota.html jamie -----Original Message----- From: Hilda Cooper To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 1:59 am Subject: Re: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota This sounds interesting to say the least. Could you please enlighten this non-Irish person (English and living in Australia) as to who Scota is. Hilda Cooper nee Fudge with WEBSTER/MURRAY/FUDGE/BOUGH Ancestors. From Forth, Tasmania. Australia. Thanking you in advance. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:05 PM Subject: [IRELAND] Eyptian Princess Scota > Hello, > > I would like to know if anyone knows if there might be a picture of the > grave of Scota. My oldest son descends from her. Here is some information: > > Scota is buried on the sloped mountains in view of Tralee Bay at a place > called Glenscoheen (Scota's Glenn). Irish archaeologists have not yet > carried out any investigation on the site, which consists of woodland and > natural rocks. The Ordnance Survey of Ireland has shown the actual > location of the burial of Scota. > > jamie > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That sounds amazing- what a view that must be. I have been to the Tralee website and the place is gorgeous. My grandmothers descends fro Tralee- there city hall/town hall officer is a very nice man to work with. If you have a question I would email him. I emailed him about getting records and he gave me the church and person in charge of the records there to contact. Then followed up with me to see how I was doing- great fellow. Its funny how nice people from other countries are as opposed to some offices in the USA. Good luck. If you want hisi name I can look it up through my old email ??? [email protected] wrote: Hello, I would like to know if anyone knows if there might be a picture of the grave of Scota. My oldest son descends from her. Here is some information: Scota is buried on the sloped mountains in view of Tralee Bay at a place called Glenscoheen (Scota's Glenn). Irish archaeologists have not yet carried out any investigation on the site, which consists of woodland and natural rocks. The Ordnance Survey of Ireland has shown the actual location of the burial of Scota. jamie ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Marie Mazucca-Bell --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.