from Larry Eck: http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/historical_articles/history_ch_waldronmeth2.htm The picture is titled "M. E. church, Easter 1925." It is signed on the bottom "E Teitsort Photographer Shelbyville." I scanned it in four section, so please be sure to look at all of them if you have family that lived in Liberty, Shelby, Union or Noble townships. I think the brithdates would range from 1840s to 1922. P

>From Barb Huff: Grace, Rachel & George Means, 1906 John & Rebecca, 1879 http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/newspaper/news_means.htm P

>From Barb Huff: Clarence Wessel, son of Clara Meyer and August Wessel http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/courthouse/estate_records/adp_WesselC.htm P

>From Barb Huff: Rose Alice Armstrong Oltman, d 1908 http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/obituaries/obit_oltman.htm Henry P

>From Judy Williams: Grace Sanders Terhune, d 1957 http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/obituaries/obit_terhune.htm P

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: natinsley Surnames: annis-price Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.indiana.counties.shelby/240.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Jack, Just a note regarding Annis. In 1860, when George Annis was living with Isaac Price, Mary Annis was living with James and his wife. I am checking out the marriage between a George Annis and a Mary Price, in England, April 6, 1826. There is also a George Annis coming into Baltimore later that year, 1826. This could be something or it could be nothing, but it certainly would explain the relationships. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks, Nancy Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

>From Barb Huff: Jane Lowery vs Samuel Lowery http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/courthouse/civil_records/civ_LoweryJ.htm P

>From Barb Huff: Gladys & John McGee, 1925 http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/newspaper/news_mcgee.htm P

>From Barb Huff: William & Frances McKensen, 1905 http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/newspaper/news_mckensen.htm P

I recently copied the references to deeds (1845-1848) for the Means family from the index book at the Recorder's Office. http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/courthouse/deeds_mortgages/deedIndexM.htm P

>From Judy Williams: Harriet Williams, d 1930 http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/obituaries/obit_williams.htm Imel Rush Fox Means Norvell Taylor P

Hi Sandra, Thanks so much. The dates for David Hoover don't match up for him to be the son of John and Elizabeth, but I still bet there was a connection, especially since David and Margaret Hoover's son Samuel was born in Kentucky. I think it is a good bet that it was Jessamine County KY. Thanks so much again. I appreciate your help. Connie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Howley Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 4:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover I found a little more on David, he was born in Pa. had wife Margaret. his son Samuel was born in Ky. On May 28, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Connie Shotts wrote: > Hi Melinda, > Thanks for this. It would take some further research, but this David Hoover > may be David Hoover, son of John and Elizabeth Rice Hoover. John Hoover was > born 12 Nov 1755 in Bedford County Pennsylvania and Elizabeth was born 30 > Sep 1757 in Hagerstown Washington County Maryland. They had at least four > children (Joel, born 18 Jul 1794; Emmanuel, b. abt 1791; Barbara and David, > born 1 Mar 1788). Both John and Elizabeth died (1835 and 1842) in Clermont > County Ohio which fits with the migration pattern of some of the Trislers > who after leaving Jessamine County KY stopped first in Ohio before moving on > to Indiana; some of the Rhorers came directly to Shelby County from > Jessamine County KY. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this David > Hoover is the father of the Samuel Hoover of the court case, or even that > the Samuel Hoover of the court case is the same Samuel Hoover who later > married Jennie Sluss. The patterns of family relationships and migration > fit---but, it would take some digging to prove. > > I appreciate the information. I'll do some more checking around to see if I > can find any other connections. > Connie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Sandra Howley > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 4:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover > > According to a very old plat map, there was a David Hoover living close to > the Rohars in south west Sugar Creek Twp. David claimed some land in 1829 > and some more in 1837. > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. > http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact > information and the surnames that you are researching > ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information > changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, > Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me > ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact information and the surnames that you are researching ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. http://shelbycountyindiana.org Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact information and the surnames that you are researching ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, Melinda Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found a little more on David, he was born in Pa. had wife Margaret. his son Samuel was born in Ky. On May 28, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Connie Shotts wrote: > Hi Melinda, > Thanks for this. It would take some further research, but this David Hoover > may be David Hoover, son of John and Elizabeth Rice Hoover. John Hoover was > born 12 Nov 1755 in Bedford County Pennsylvania and Elizabeth was born 30 > Sep 1757 in Hagerstown Washington County Maryland. They had at least four > children (Joel, born 18 Jul 1794; Emmanuel, b. abt 1791; Barbara and David, > born 1 Mar 1788). Both John and Elizabeth died (1835 and 1842) in Clermont > County Ohio which fits with the migration pattern of some of the Trislers > who after leaving Jessamine County KY stopped first in Ohio before moving on > to Indiana; some of the Rhorers came directly to Shelby County from > Jessamine County KY. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this David > Hoover is the father of the Samuel Hoover of the court case, or even that > the Samuel Hoover of the court case is the same Samuel Hoover who later > married Jennie Sluss. The patterns of family relationships and migration > fit---but, it would take some digging to prove. > > I appreciate the information. I'll do some more checking around to see if I > can find any other connections. > Connie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Sandra Howley > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 4:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover > > According to a very old plat map, there was a David Hoover living close to > the Rohars in south west Sugar Creek Twp. David claimed some land in 1829 > and some more in 1837. > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. > http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact > information and the surnames that you are researching > ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information > changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, > Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me > ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact information and the surnames that you are researching ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David was 69y,8m,and 15 d, when he died Jan 8, 1871 On May 28, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Connie Shotts wrote: > Hi Melinda, > Thanks for this. It would take some further research, but this David Hoover > may be David Hoover, son of John and Elizabeth Rice Hoover. John Hoover was > born 12 Nov 1755 in Bedford County Pennsylvania and Elizabeth was born 30 > Sep 1757 in Hagerstown Washington County Maryland. They had at least four > children (Joel, born 18 Jul 1794; Emmanuel, b. abt 1791; Barbara and David, > born 1 Mar 1788). Both John and Elizabeth died (1835 and 1842) in Clermont > County Ohio which fits with the migration pattern of some of the Trislers > who after leaving Jessamine County KY stopped first in Ohio before moving on > to Indiana; some of the Rhorers came directly to Shelby County from > Jessamine County KY. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this David > Hoover is the father of the Samuel Hoover of the court case, or even that > the Samuel Hoover of the court case is the same Samuel Hoover who later > married Jennie Sluss. The patterns of family relationships and migration > fit---but, it would take some digging to prove. > > I appreciate the information. I'll do some more checking around to see if I > can find any other connections. > Connie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Sandra Howley > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 4:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover > > According to a very old plat map, there was a David Hoover living close to > the Rohars in south west Sugar Creek Twp. David claimed some land in 1829 > and some more in 1837. > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. > http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact > information and the surnames that you are researching > ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information > changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, > Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me > ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact information and the surnames that you are researching ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Sandra. Another piece of the puzzle. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Howley Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 4:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INSHELBY] Hoover There is a single grave for a David Hoover in sw Sugar Creek Twp. He is also in the 1850 census with a 24 yr old son named Samuel. Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. http://shelbycountyindiana.org Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact information and the surnames that you are researching ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, Melinda Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Melinda, Thanks for this. It would take some further research, but this David Hoover may be David Hoover, son of John and Elizabeth Rice Hoover. John Hoover was born 12 Nov 1755 in Bedford County Pennsylvania and Elizabeth was born 30 Sep 1757 in Hagerstown Washington County Maryland. They had at least four children (Joel, born 18 Jul 1794; Emmanuel, b. abt 1791; Barbara and David, born 1 Mar 1788). Both John and Elizabeth died (1835 and 1842) in Clermont County Ohio which fits with the migration pattern of some of the Trislers who after leaving Jessamine County KY stopped first in Ohio before moving on to Indiana; some of the Rhorers came directly to Shelby County from Jessamine County KY. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this David Hoover is the father of the Samuel Hoover of the court case, or even that the Samuel Hoover of the court case is the same Samuel Hoover who later married Jennie Sluss. The patterns of family relationships and migration fit---but, it would take some digging to prove. I appreciate the information. I'll do some more checking around to see if I can find any other connections. Connie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandra Howley Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 4:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover According to a very old plat map, there was a David Hoover living close to the Rohars in south west Sugar Creek Twp. David claimed some land in 1829 and some more in 1837. Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. http://shelbycountyindiana.org Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact information and the surnames that you are researching ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, Melinda Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is a single grave for a David Hoover in sw Sugar Creek Twp. He is also in the 1850 census with a 24 yr old son named Samuel.

According to a very old plat map, there was a David Hoover living close to the Rohars in south west Sugar Creek Twp. David claimed some land in 1829 and some more in 1837.

Hi Phyllis, Thanks for the reply and the suggestions. This is what I have done so far: I looked for Sarah House and her five-year old son in the 1850 census. I found no listing for a Sarah of the right age and the closest I could come for the child was a six-year old boy, Jacob House, in the household of Maston and Mary House. The closest Hoover male was a Charles Hoover but he was only two years old in the 1850 census. If the Samuel Hoover I found in Shelby County in the 1850 census is the right one, he was born about 1826 in Kentucky and was the son of David and Margaret Hoover, born in 1802 and 1804 in Pennsylvania--according to the 1850 census record. They were living in the Sugar Creek area. I didn't find Hiram Snider in the 1850 Shelby County census (or the 1840 census) and the only Robert Glenn I found was a 51 year-old man (no wife listed) living in the Jefferson area of Shelby County in 1850; he did have a four-year old son also named Robert. I considered other possible spellings for both Snider and Glenn but found no good possibilities under any variation. I checked the Indiana Marriages through 1850 and found no marriage record for a Sarah House. In the 1840 census for Shelby County, there is a Marton House (Ancestry.com indexing, but it looks as if it could be Maston), aged 30-40, with one female aged 5 to 10 who could have been about 15 in 1845; there is also a John House family with three females aged 10-15 and one female aged 15-20. I didn't find this John House family in the 1850 census in Shelby County, but I did find a Maston House (probably the same as Marton House in the 1840 census), aged 40. His is the family with whom the six-year old Jacob House noted above is living--possibly the son of Sarah? Sarah is not listed in the household. This family was living in the Moral area. As to the connection of Hoovers with Monroe County IN, I know that there are several marriages between the Hoover, Rhorer and Trisler families (through several generations) that came from the Jessamine County Kentucky area to southern IN. Some of these related Trislers and Rhorers were in both Shelby County and Monroe County and I think it is not unlikely that the Hoovers were probably in both counties as well although I don't have any specific instance of that for the Hoovers as I do for the Trislers and Rhorers. Eliza J. (Jennie) Sluss was the daughter of John M. Sluss and Eliza Hunter. John M. Sluss was born in Winchester Kentucky in 1807 and died in Monroe County IN in 1878. Eliza Hunter was born in Kentucky in 1808 but I don't have any further information on her. To my knowledge, there is no connection with the Sluss family to Shelby County. If you happen to be around the courthouse and have a few minutes to spare to see if there is anything else on this case, that would be great. I'm not sure that there is a connection to the Samuel A. Hoover who married Eliza J. Sluss, but I think it could be possible that it is the same person or he could be related to the Hoovers in Monroe County who are part of my family--although not a direct connection. The Hoover name in this item caught my eye and I wondered if anyone might have more information that could lead to determining whether or not this Samuel Hoover ties into my family. Thanks again for the response and the ideas. Connie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Phyllis Miller Fleming Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover This is a little too early for any newspaper coverage in Shelby County. You could check the newspaper in Johnson County. The only good lead would be the male child born in Johnson County around 1845. I don't know if his last name was House or Hoover, but he would probably be on the census records in the household of Sarah Ann House, her parents or one of her siblings. Perhaps Sarah married before the 1850 census. But my aim would be to follow the male child and see if his death certificate lists his father's name. Following Samuel Hoover's "friends" might give some clues. Did Samuel Hoover's family live near the families of Robert Glenn or Hiram Snider? Shelby County does not have any major connections with Monroe County but maybe the Hoover family was from that area. Can you find the birth name of Samuel's mother? The roads between here and Monroe County still are not great and I am sure they were horrible in 1850. If Shelby County Samuel traveled to Monroe County, he had to have had a reason. What do you know about the Sluss family? Did they have Shelby County connections? The search would be fun, but I wouldn't count on finding an answer in this world. Do you want me to check for other Hoover court records? If so , what time period? I don't see any Hoover probate records. I don't see any burial for Samuel Hoover or Sarah House. What about Samuel's parents? Maybe their obituaries would say something about where their son Samuel was living. P ----- Original Message ----- From: "Connie Shotts" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover > Thanks for providing this item from the court records. Is there anything > further on this record? I am wondering if the Samuel Hoover in this court > record is Samuel Hoover who married Eliza J. (Jennie) Sluss in Monroe > County > IN 25 Sep 1855? I believe I found the Samuel Hoover of this court case > listed with his parents in the 1850 census in Shelby County, apparently > unmarried. > > I know that the Samuel Hoover who married Jennie Sluss in 1855 was > divorced > from Jennie before 1880 after having one child, a son, Fred I. Hoover born > in 1862. I have not been able to locate Samuel and Eliza J. (Jennie) > Sluss > Hoover in either the 1860 or 1870 census records. His name for the > marriage > record is listed as Samuel A. Hoover. > > Thanks for any information or suggestions anyone may have. > Connie > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Phyllis Miller Fleming > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:55 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover > >>From Barb Huff: > > Sarah Ann House vs Samuel Hoover, 1845 > http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/courthouse/civil_records/civ_HouseS.htm > > Glenn > Snider > > P > > > > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. > http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact > information and the surnames that you are researching > ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information > changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, > Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me > ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. > http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact > information and the surnames that you are researching > ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information > changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, > Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me > ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. http://shelbycountyindiana.org Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact information and the surnames that you are researching ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, Melinda Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a little too early for any newspaper coverage in Shelby County. You could check the newspaper in Johnson County. The only good lead would be the male child born in Johnson County around 1845. I don't know if his last name was House or Hoover, but he would probably be on the census records in the household of Sarah Ann House, her parents or one of her siblings. Perhaps Sarah married before the 1850 census. But my aim would be to follow the male child and see if his death certificate lists his father's name. Following Samuel Hoover's "friends" might give some clues. Did Samuel Hoover's family live near the families of Robert Glenn or Hiram Snider? Shelby County does not have any major connections with Monroe County but maybe the Hoover family was from that area. Can you find the birth name of Samuel's mother? The roads between here and Monroe County still are not great and I am sure they were horrible in 1850. If Shelby County Samuel traveled to Monroe County, he had to have had a reason. What do you know about the Sluss family? Did they have Shelby County connections? The search would be fun, but I wouldn't count on finding an answer in this world. Do you want me to check for other Hoover court records? If so , what time period? I don't see any Hoover probate records. I don't see any burial for Samuel Hoover or Sarah House. What about Samuel's parents? Maybe their obituaries would say something about where their son Samuel was living. P ----- Original Message ----- From: "Connie Shotts" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover > Thanks for providing this item from the court records. Is there anything > further on this record? I am wondering if the Samuel Hoover in this court > record is Samuel Hoover who married Eliza J. (Jennie) Sluss in Monroe > County > IN 25 Sep 1855? I believe I found the Samuel Hoover of this court case > listed with his parents in the 1850 census in Shelby County, apparently > unmarried. > > I know that the Samuel Hoover who married Jennie Sluss in 1855 was > divorced > from Jennie before 1880 after having one child, a son, Fred I. Hoover born > in 1862. I have not been able to locate Samuel and Eliza J. (Jennie) > Sluss > Hoover in either the 1860 or 1870 census records. His name for the > marriage > record is listed as Samuel A. Hoover. > > Thanks for any information or suggestions anyone may have. > Connie > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Phyllis Miller Fleming > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:55 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [INSHELBY] House vs Hoover > >>From Barb Huff: > > Sarah Ann House vs Samuel Hoover, 1845 > http://www.shelbycountyindiana.org/courthouse/civil_records/civ_HouseS.htm > > Glenn > Snider > > P > > > > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. > http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact > information and the surnames that you are researching > ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information > changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, > Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me > ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > Don't forget to check out our genealogy web site. > http://shelbycountyindiana.org > > Shelby County Researchers, please send me an e-mail with your contact > information and the surnames that you are researching > ([email protected]) and let me know whenever that information > changes. I would like to keep track of all of our researchers. Thanks, > Melinda > > Any questions or problems regarding this list should be directed to me > ([email protected]). Thanks, Melinda > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message