L.A. Thanks for this information. Tremendous amount of great information. Now to reduce that to a quick summary list with the most important items. I'll be working on that but it may take a while. On the mowing issue..two items At the old Wood-Verner Cemetery in Smith Co with first burial believed to be 1850 according to the State Historical Marker, I found any number of old broken markers piled up in a corner of the cemetery and even some pieces outside the fence in the ditch next to the road. I have retrieved as many of those as I can and in an unused corner of the cemetery have attempted to piece them back together. I have them lying loosely on the ground, jigsaw puzzle fashion with some being complete and others still missing parts of the original marker. After spending several days on several occasions doing this I left several notes in a zip lock bag on a small stake to the effect "Please do not disturb this monument. This person is not buried here. These pieces were collected from a pile of broken monuments found in the NW corner of the cemetery. If you have any information about this person and where he/she may have been buried in this cemetery, please call Rex Kirby." I then put my phone number on the note. I have received several calls including one from the gentlemen whom I suspected piled them up in the corner in the first place. The first lady who called was about 85 and she met me at the cemetery with some old photos of the cemetery. From those we were able to determine the original location of two of the monuments and from her memory of having attended many funerals there she has given me some ideas on another one. The man who had been doing the mowing and who probably moved many of the broken pieces out of his way also met me at the cemetery. He never actually admitted that he was the one who moved them but why else would he say the pieces had gotten scattered and where causing problems with mowing. And I know from several sources he has been the one mowing the cemetery for several years. He brought with him an old list that he had personally made many years ago which fortunately was in order of burial. From this list we now know where several of the others belong assuming his list is accurate. I have also received any number of other photos from several individuals but many of them are not clear enough to read the names and dates. This is an ongoing project and I have not attempted to move any of those monuments I have pieced together nor have I attempted to "glue" [for lack of a better word] any of them back together permanently. Maybe someday when I learn the best method of doing so. My second major experience/confrontation has been with the caretakers for Rose Hill Cemetery with over 11,000 burials covering about 40 acres that is mowed and trimmed with weed eaters nearly every week. On several occasions I had noticed broken corners on some monuments and especially foot markers. I talked to the supervisor and pointed out to him the damage I had noticed. As a result of that conversation the mowers no longer try to straddle the foot markers with their high riding mowers. And to prevent similar damage to my late wife's monument and the marble edging for the flower bed I took some two foot pieces of 2" angle iron and drove them in the ground on each corner. They are painted a grayish white to match the Georgia Marble monument and are hardly noticeable. But they have prevented the mowers from riding over or striking the corners with the lawn mowers. I have also been known to follow some of the guys on the mowers shouting and waving at them whenever I find broken or chipped corners. Most of them don't speak English but they know from my antics they have done something that is not acceptable. I visit this cemetery often enough to have been there several times during their mowing and for whatever reason have noticed they are much more careful with their mowing and trimming. I can't always be there of course nor can I follow them around from cemetery to cemetery but I would like to think they are a lot more careful now than they were. I don't hesitate to call the caretaker or committee chairman or whoever and complain about damage I see at any cemetery. I don't know of any other way to deal with this problem. It's just a day's work and pay for them. It's sacred memories and never ending love for me and other family members. I welcome any other ideas on dealing with this problem. Rex -----Original Message----- From: L.A. CLUGH [mailto:Clugh_la@msn.com] Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 1:05 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cleaning methods --You won't believe this one Rex, http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/pcrpstepbystep.html What a great idea. These steps are listed on this page and you will find the Connecticut Gravestone Network page for cleaning. These folks have more years on their monuments that Indiana or Texas. There is also methods on the Association of Grave- stone studies site. I think about the only area not on that page is covering the mower issues. I don't think anyone has completed a page for this. Heaven know they all need education on the mowing around the old stones. Other cleaning recipes are on the Toolbox page. I think most of the links are good now. Lois did a lot of work on these pages, and we are thankful for her work. Half of the restoration job is education. The 2 books on the main page are very helpful. http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/ L.A. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex Kirby" <rex@tyler.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:31 PM Subject: RE: [INPCRP] You won't believe this one - please help! > Shelia, Rhonda and all, > I wholehearted agree with you but the question is how. But before I > address > that issue I would like to point out what Mr. Steed in his infinite wisdom > neglected to tell his faithful readers is that after it stays that way for > a > long time it will begin to deteriorate and there is nothing you can do > about it. He should have also advised them to be sure to take plenty of > pictures while they can because in time that's about all anyone will be > able > to read. > > It would appear to me that from his writing style he is somewhat educated > but evidently on other matters that have nothing to do with cemetery or > tombstone preservation. And I'm also puzzled why the Kentucky Explorer > didn't attach an editorial comment to Mr. Steed's letter pointing out at > the > very least that this method of cleaning could be detrimental to some grave > markers. Evidently they need a little education themselves and I hope you > or > someone can enlighten them. > > For more years than I care to admit I have been involved in updating old > surveys or enumerations of several very old cemeteries here in East Texas > as > well as having taken on the task of attempting to photograph all military > markers in all cemeteries in the county. During this time I have > encountered two occasions of so-called cleaning by someone in a cemetery. > One involved a lady who was using what looked like an ice scrapper in > attempting to remove lichen from a granite marker. I didn't say anything > to > her because I couldn't help but think it was her husband's monument and > she > made no effort to clean any other monument. I was close enough to see > that > she wiped the monument off with a dry rag after using the scrapper. After > looking at the dates on the tomb and noticing that the wife was perhaps > not > buried there assuming the absence of a death date was indicative of that > fact, I rationalized that it was her tomb and she could do what she > wanted. > > The second incident involves a cemetery with the oldest grave dating back > to > 1859. Many of the old sandstone markers are extremely difficult to read > and > indeed some have names and dates I can not read and I have tried mirrors > and > lights and various angles with the sun. But back to what I encountered. > On > my way to the cemetery one day I happened to stop at a nearby service > station for gas and a cold drink. While there I overheard a conversation > between two guys who obviously knew each other well. One of them asked > the > other one what had he been up to. Simple question until I heard his > answer. > He said well he had a little time off so he had just finished cleaning all > the monuments in this certain cemetery. This was the same cemetery where > I > was going so I was anxious to know what he had done. When I got there it > was obvious that he had power washed every monument in the cemetery > including those very old sandstone markers. In fact some of them had been > knocked over. On that particular day they looked nice but as I wondered > around I couldn't help but notice some damage from his good intentions. > > Now on the education angle . . . > I would like to have a list of does and don't that could be printed on > something like a 6 x 9 card stock paper to be laminated to make it weather > proof. Most of the rural cemeteries I am familiar with have a chain link > fence around them although some do not and I believe the various cemetery > associations and/or churches would permit me to place a small mail box > near > the entrance of the cemetery to hold those cards. I would estimate that > about 99% of the folks who visit these cemeteries do not have any clue > about > caring for a monument. I would also make these cards available to all the > monument dealers and funeral homes in this area. And of course, when the > card is finalized I would submit a copy to each Historical and > Genealogical > Association in East Texas for publication in one of their monthly > newsletters. And I suspect I could obtain the endorsement of either or > both > of those organizations printed on the bottom of the card. This would > avoid > the appearance of advertisement and would be of more significance to the > general public. Since reading Mr. Steed's method of cleaning I made > several > phone calls today and found no one with a list of proper and improper > methods of caring for or cleaning monuments. > > I will say there may be a list somewhere but I haven't seen one. As of > today I have not undertaken to go through the archived messages on this > board to compile such a list. I am hoping that someone a lot more > knowledgeable about this subject than I am can point me in the right > direction. It occurs to me that such a card readily available everywhere > would be one of the ways to educate the public. Many of the folks who > need > to know these things do not own a computer, do not read magazines on the > subject and never give it thought because they don't know any better. > > Have you got my card yet? > > Thanks for listening, er reading. > > Rex Kirby > Tyler, TX > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sheila Rooker [mailto:gravefinder2003@yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:19 PM > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] You won't believe this one - please help! > > Hello All, > > Hope you have all had a happy holiday. This is my 2 cents worth. > Educate, > Educate, Educate. We can't do enough to Educate.... Most people don't have > a > clue how to clean a stone. We have to stop the ones that think they do but > don't really. > Sheila > > Rhonda Stoffer <rstoffer@marion.lib.in.us> wrote: > There is a letter to the editor in the Jan 2006 issue of Kentucky > Explorer: > > Dear Editor: > > Cleaning grave markers in not always a hard job. Buy a pair of > cheap rubber gloves, Brillo pads, and Easy Off oven cleaner and take > along a bucket of water and an old-fashioned scrub brush. Spray the oven > cleaner on the stone, scrub it with water and the brush, use a Brillo > pad. Leave the cleaner on the marker, do not wash off. Come back in a > few weeks and it will look cleaner. By repeating this process the stone > will look a lot cleaner and stay that way for a long time. > > If you run into a tougher cleaning job, buy a cleaner that > contains acid, but be careful. > > If you would like to take photos of the marker, buy some white > chalk and run it over the names and dates, then take pictures from > various distances. > > James Steed > > I called the magazine, the lady there said Mr. Steed had contributed > many items and photos to the publication and he was really good. I > explained that you don't use chemicals and Brillo pads on grave markers > and the damage that could occur. She said she used a power washer on her > stones, I explained the danger of that also. She also said that he > didn't specify what type of marker he was cleaning, I explained that > granite markers rarely need to be cleaned, so people would be using this > technique on marble and sandstone markers. She said if I would like to > write a letter to the editor they would be happy to print it. Is there > anyone who is more knowledgeable than I who would like to write to them? > Or, better yet, many people write to them? If not, I'll put something > together. > > Charles Hayes, Jr, publisher > Kentucky Explorer > PO Box 227 > Jackson, KY 41339 > > Thanks for your help! > > Rhonda Stoffer > Head of Indiana History and Genealogy Services > Marion Public Library > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of > England and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals." > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Personals > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. > Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version) > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version) > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)