Sharon: I have not exactly kept up with this scenario except the tax issue, but in answer your question, Can anything be done? I think the county had an obligation under the law to protect the future of this cemetery if they knew it was there. Jon P.S. Most county owned excess property tax sales are held in Feb./March vs. Sept./Oct. delinquency sales. >From: mills <mills@reliable-net.net> >Reply-To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [INPCRP] going after a cemetery for taxes >Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 06:12:50 -0500 > > >Jon, > >Thanks for this easy and understandable information. > >It appears as if the sale of this land was the latter type. I can see that >the initial sale was 3 Mar 1999 on the day of the public "auction". The >land must have been available for sale two years before that, as there was >a rumor that a woman from another county had bought the church and was >going to turn it into a home. Then we "heard" that the first sale fell >through, the woman was convinced to abandon her idea by someone, and the >second sale occurred. The property was taxed for 1996 and prior years. > >I'm sure there were public notices in the papers. Possession of the >property did occur in June 1999. If this is the case, does that preclude >action the county might have taken to except out the cemetery itself? Is >there any action that can still be taken regarding the cemetery? > >There is one more little odd factor that may involve a third party. The >back corner that may have been formerly covered with mature trees was never >included in the deed for the church/cemetery. Nor was it included in the >parcels deeded for the additions. At this point I don't know who owns that >back fraction of an acre, nor do I know specifically that trees were cut >from it. > >More deed research indicated. > >Thanks, > >Sharon Mills > > >At 10:33 PM 11/8/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Jack and Sharon: > > > >In answer to your question about redemption periods, tax deeds, etc..... > > > >Fact is, that if the property was sold at a yearly tax sale for >delinquent > >taxes and the new buyer was issued a tax certificate at the time of the > >sale, that buyer would not gain possession or a valid deed to the >property > >for 1 year from the date of the certificate and only after which time all > >required notices are posted of record. It used to be 2 years from date. > >Changed about 7 years ago. If the record owner redeems the taxes, >penalties > >and costs within the 1 year period, the record owner still owns the >property > >and the buyer receives his money back. If he does not, the buyer at the >sale > >will receive a tax deed from the County Commissioners signed by the >Auditor. > >Could take up to six additional months. Then and only then can the buyer > >take possession of the property. There is a tremendous amount of case law >in > >Indiana supporting this fact. I actually have been a part of it on >certain > >occasions. > > > >Now, here's something else. If the property goes on the tax sale for 2 > >consecutive years and does not sell for lack of a bid. The county has the > >option to file a lien on the property with the clerk's office against the > >record owner and the property can then be advertised and sold at a >separate > >sale of County owned excess property. If you buy this property in this > >manner, possession and a deed is issued generally by the court and >happens > >pretty quickly and is final. Usually a matter of a few weeks if handled >by a > >good county attorney or as soon as the money changes hands. > > > >It makes a difference as to how the property was sold and transferred > >as to how quick you could legally get on the property. > > > >Questions? > > > >Jon > > > > > >>From: Jb502000@aol.com > >>Reply-To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > >>To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > >>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] going after a cemetery for taxes > >>Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:06:14 EST > >> > >>In a message dated 11/8/01 7:42:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time, > >>mills@reliable-net.net writes: > >> > >> > >> > Actually, the taxes on this 2.64 areas were over $3,000. That was >what > >>the > >> > new owner paid to buy the property. They may have been figuring in > >>those > >> > big trees he later sold and a handful of years of back taxes. > >> > > >> > >>Sharon, > >>If the Taxes were that high they had to have included several years. For > >>the > >>taxes to run that high the 2.64 acres with a cemetery taking up a goodly > >>amount of the ground, the property would have to be in a very high >priced > >>area for one year to run that high. The taxes had to be delinquent for a > >>Tax > >>sale. The previous owner under Indiana Law has a grace period to reclaim > >>the > >>property, by paying up the purchase amount with interest. > >> Technically I don't think the Trees can be stripped until that >time > >>has expired. If so and somehow some group, or person could redeem the >land, > >>the sale price of the trees would apply to the payment. If the tree sale > >>brought $3,000 dollars the only thing owed would be the Interest, and >I'm > >>not > >>sure about that because the property, minus the trees is not now worth >what > >>it was at the time of the Tax sale. Also you can't buy property at a >tax > >>sale and build a $150,000 house on it and expect the person redeeming >the > >>property to come up with that amount, plus the sale amount. You may not > >>profit from a tax sale until the redemption time has expired. Sharon, >you > >>mention a for profit group, do you mean someone who sells cemetery lots >to > >>make a profit for themselves, or for money to apply to a long term > >>maintenance fund. Anyone have any better information? > >>Jack E. Briles, Sr. > >>Floyd County PCRP Coordinator > >>PO Box 444 > >>New Albany, In. 47151-0444 > >>(812) 282-6585 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > >>This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > >>Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > >> > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > >This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > >Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > > > > > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- > "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families >are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is >undisguised. This is a cemetery. > "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, >historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. > "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved >in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - >not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family >memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. > "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of >yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery >exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." > --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Jon, I'm not sure if anything can be done. The new property owner has been uncooperative to this point. Actually, that is a mild way to say it, considering that some of what he has done became illegal in less than a year. My guess is this will take hiring an attorney, and the cemetery association may not be able to afford that. I don't want to personally take on responsibility for that before I know what the bottom line might be. I hope to find a solution that will cause the people who made the problem to fix the problem. This is not a wealthy county. County officials are regretful, some persist in saying they "couldn't" and "didn't" sell the actual cemetery, but others admit it was done. In the meantime, I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I have received much excellent guidance from this list, including the recent mention of checking aerial photos c 1940. I saw a plat map of the county, but that wasn't an actual photo. Without arousing more curiosity in the county, I think I could view an aerial photo at the Indiana State Archives. I'm particularly interested in those graves that appear to be within 20 feet of the recently-built (c 1999) dwelling. I can't tell how many graves are on that hillside, which appears to be a brush pile from casual observation. To learn this from the ground, I would have to trespass all the way to the dwelling. (: Sharon At 01:03 PM 11/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >Sharon: >I have not exactly kept up with this scenario except the tax issue, but in >answer your question, Can anything be done? I think the county had an >obligation under the law to protect the future of this cemetery if they knew >it was there. >Jon >P.S. Most county owned excess property tax sales are held in Feb./March vs. >Sept./Oct. delinquency sales. > >>From: mills <mills@reliable-net.net> >>Reply-To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >>To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] going after a cemetery for taxes >>Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 06:12:50 -0500 >> >> >>Jon, >> >>Thanks for this easy and understandable information. >> >>It appears as if the sale of this land was the latter type. I can see that >>the initial sale was 3 Mar 1999 on the day of the public "auction". The >>land must have been available for sale two years before that, as there was >>a rumor that a woman from another county had bought the church and was >>going to turn it into a home. Then we "heard" that the first sale fell >>through, the woman was convinced to abandon her idea by someone, and the >>second sale occurred. The property was taxed for 1996 and prior years. >> >>I'm sure there were public notices in the papers. Possession of the >>property did occur in June 1999. If this is the case, does that preclude >>action the county might have taken to except out the cemetery itself? Is >>there any action that can still be taken regarding the cemetery? >> >>There is one more little odd factor that may involve a third party. The >>back corner that may have been formerly covered with mature trees was never >>included in the deed for the church/cemetery. Nor was it included in the >>parcels deeded for the additions. At this point I don't know who owns that >>back fraction of an acre, nor do I know specifically that trees were cut >>from it. >> >>More deed research indicated. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Sharon Mills >> >> >>At 10:33 PM 11/8/01 -0500, you wrote: >> >Jack and Sharon: >> > >> >In answer to your question about redemption periods, tax deeds, etc..... >> > >> >Fact is, that if the property was sold at a yearly tax sale for >>delinquent >> >taxes and the new buyer was issued a tax certificate at the time of the >> >sale, that buyer would not gain possession or a valid deed to the >>property >> >for 1 year from the date of the certificate and only after which time all >> >required notices are posted of record. It used to be 2 years from date. >> >Changed about 7 years ago. If the record owner redeems the taxes, >>penalties >> >and costs within the 1 year period, the record owner still owns the >>property >> >and the buyer receives his money back. If he does not, the buyer at the >>sale >> >will receive a tax deed from the County Commissioners signed by the >>Auditor. >> >Could take up to six additional months. Then and only then can the buyer >> >take possession of the property. There is a tremendous amount of case law >>in >> >Indiana supporting this fact. I actually have been a part of it on >>certain >> >occasions. >> > >> >Now, here's something else. If the property goes on the tax sale for 2 >> >consecutive years and does not sell for lack of a bid. The county has the >> >option to file a lien on the property with the clerk's office against the >> >record owner and the property can then be advertised and sold at a >>separate >> >sale of County owned excess property. If you buy this property in this >> >manner, possession and a deed is issued generally by the court and >>happens >> >pretty quickly and is final. Usually a matter of a few weeks if handled >>by a >> >good county attorney or as soon as the money changes hands. >> > >> >It makes a difference as to how the property was sold and transferred >> >as to how quick you could legally get on the property. >> > >> >Questions? >> > >> >Jon >> > >> > >> >>From: Jb502000@aol.com >> >>Reply-To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >> >>To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >> >>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] going after a cemetery for taxes >> >>Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:06:14 EST >> >> >> >>In a message dated 11/8/01 7:42:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time, >> >>mills@reliable-net.net writes: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Actually, the taxes on this 2.64 areas were over $3,000. That was >>what >> >>the >> >> > new owner paid to buy the property. They may have been figuring in >> >>those >> >> > big trees he later sold and a handful of years of back taxes. >> >> > >> >> >> >>Sharon, >> >>If the Taxes were that high they had to have included several years. For >> >>the >> >>taxes to run that high the 2.64 acres with a cemetery taking up a goodly >> >>amount of the ground, the property would have to be in a very high >>priced >> >>area for one year to run that high. The taxes had to be delinquent for a >> >>Tax >> >>sale. The previous owner under Indiana Law has a grace period to reclaim >> >>the >> >>property, by paying up the purchase amount with interest. >> >> Technically I don't think the Trees can be stripped until that >>time >> >>has expired. If so and somehow some group, or person could redeem the >>land, >> >>the sale price of the trees would apply to the payment. If the tree sale >> >>brought $3,000 dollars the only thing owed would be the Interest, and >>I'm >> >>not >> >>sure about that because the property, minus the trees is not now worth >>what >> >>it was at the time of the Tax sale. Also you can't buy property at a >>tax >> >>sale and build a $150,000 house on it and expect the person redeeming >>the >> >>property to come up with that amount, plus the sale amount. You may not >> >>profit from a tax sale until the redemption time has expired. Sharon, >>you >> >>mention a for profit group, do you mean someone who sells cemetery lots >>to >> >>make a profit for themselves, or for money to apply to a long term >> >>maintenance fund. Anyone have any better information? >> >>Jack E. Briles, Sr. >> >>Floyd County PCRP Coordinator >> >>PO Box 444 >> >>New Albany, In. 47151-0444 >> >>(812) 282-6585 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >> >>This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer >> >>Cemeteries Restoration Project only. >> >> >> > >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________ >> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >> > >> > >> >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >> >This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer >> >Cemeteries Restoration Project only. >> > >> > >> > >> >> >>==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >>THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- >> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families >>are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is >>undisguised. This is a cemetery. >> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, >>historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. >> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved >>in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - >>not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family >>memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. >> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of >>yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery >>exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." >> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA >> > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living? > > >