Excellent Jack, I have a poor way of expressing myself, since I left out the bulk of what anyone would do (anyway) I don't claim to be the smartest on here and I am sure could be easily matched. On certification, I think that is more of an issue with those that earn money or a living from gravestone repair (my word) than those that don't. I very, very seriously doubt there is anyone in this state that is qualified to "certify" anyone. I don't have the answers, but sometimes it goes far beyond the actual need. You get ego's and reputations mixed up and everyone gets mad, for no good reason that has anything to do with the dead and their memory. Lee Creed