Good question, Brad, but I don't know. Anything that doesn't have a negative fiscal impact on the State has a better chance of being accepted. My only fear is that you'll get these loony-tunes out there who are grave robbers and all they have to say is, "Well I am just trying to restore the cemetery!" and get off the hook. That is why I like the probing permit idea better. The permit would collect your personal information so if the probing was abused they would know who to look for. I like it going through the DNR-DHPA because, hopefully, Jeannie would be the one to issue the permits, and she knows who the genuine people are who are trying to restore these cemeteries. She knows US. I know several on this list that can't stand the DNR, but for this cemetery thing to work, we have got to learn to work together. I agree with Mark Kreps. I too worry about being "caught" doing "you-know-what". I don't have so much as a speeding ticket. I sure don't want to have a misdemeanor on my record. All it would take is some noisy passer-by to see me probing and trying to extract a headstone out of the ground for restoration and call the cops on me for graverobbing. Do you think a cop is educated about the work we do in cemeteries? How is he/she going to know that I am restoring a cemetery vs. graverobbing? I agree with Lee though that most of the cops won't care. I make sure I have a signed permission slip with me from the property owner/township trustee before working - just in case. The last thing I want to do is scare anybody about probing. I know this is a delicate issue, but I thought this list was designed to discuss ideas between people who care about our cemeteries. I don't care whether you agree with the idea or not, I am just glad to see discussion to try to make what we do better. I also agree with Larry Tippin on the certification program. I know we are in the minority, but I think we have got to set standards in professional cemetery restoration. Anybody can go out there right now and claim they are a professional cemetery restorationist; and they can do irreparable damage to these one-of-a-kind markers. The thought makes me cringe. Angela Tielking ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Manzenberger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 12:07 PM Subject: RE: [INPCRP] probing > How much resistance would we get if we tried to insert the phrase "cemetery > restoration shall be exempt" into the law. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Tielking [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 10:57 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] probing > > Jack and Mark, > > I was always told that probing is illegal. Period. I was also told that the > DNR didn't want to know about it if we were probing. I have also heard that > getting permission from the township trustee was fine too. I think it would > be all quite simple if we could just get a permit to probe so that we are > legal. It takes the guesswork out of it, and then we don't have to worry > about it. > > As for saying that "probing for 'artifacts' implies that you want it for > personal use.etc.." that is an interpretation of the law. We either need > legislation or a permit that gives us legal authority to probe - it needs to > be that cut and dry. So I understand Mark's feelings about probing in front > of 100's of people drivng by. > > Angela Tielking > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:07 AM > Subject: [INPCRP] (no subject) > > > > > > We have been thru this before. Probing for "Artifacts' implies that > > you want it for your personal use, or swap meet, or sell to someone. We > Probe > > down here in Floyd County to find the "Broken Pieces" only to repair a > stone, or > > stones and for no other reason. We were told if we had a letter from the > Twp. > > Trustee to find and repair the stones we were covered legally. That is > > because the Trustee is Responsible for the cemeteries and their condition > and they > > certainly cant find the time to do the job themselves, so they must > designate a > > responsible party to do it for them. > > > > It's for darn sure If members of the INPCRP cant probe, who > else > > knows enough about the care necessary to do it safely. I pointed out that > if > > I cant Probe, and have to submit a probing plan every time I work on a > > cemetery, then My volunteering is over and the cemeteries I have found can > go back > > to their former state. You should know how to be careful probing, and > digging > > around the piece, or pieces so as not to further damage them. If you don't > > know, then you should accompany someone from the INPCRP and learn. > > > > I probed for broken pieces in California and started when I came > back > > to Indiana late 1995. I feel I know how by now. Its for darn sure just > anyone > > cant take a probe and a shovel out and start. They need guidance. You can > do > > as you wish about "Probing," I don't know how much you know about it. I > have > > stopped people who came out and was going to help me. I told them that if > they > > wanted to learn, work with me and help until I was satisfied they knew > what > > they were doing. > > Some wont agree with me, but one thing is for sure, you cant just start. > > Really, the Legislature needs more protection laws for our cemeteries than > just > > "Probing". > > > > Jack E. Briles Sr. > > Floyd Co. Cord. INPCRP > > Po Box 444 > > New Albany, In 47151-0444 > > > > > > > > > > IC 14-21-1-26 > > Disturbance of grounds for purpose of discovering artifacts or burial > > objects > > Sec. 26. (a) A person who disturbs the ground for the purpose of > discovering > > artifacts or burial objects must do so in accordance with a plan approved > by > > the department under section 25 of this chapter or under IC 14-3-3.4-14 > > (before its repeal). > > (b) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally violates this > > section commits a Class A misdemeanor. > > As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.14. > > > > > > > > > > Jack > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname > and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a > better venue. > > Thank you. > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > http://www.inpcrp.org > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) >