Angela has helped to clarify what I am seeking, "legal authority to probe" which should be goal of all. Hopefully the DNR will give the INPCRP and township trustees the same information so we might all be on the same page in Indiana when it comes to probing. It is my desire to do all cemetery work carefully and properly. When doing so we should be honored and respected. I shouldn't feel as if I'm doing something illegal, be trained to do something illegal or show others probing and in the process contribute to perpetuating the issue. Mark Kreps Muncie, IN [email protected] -------Original Message------- From: [email protected] Date: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:07:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INPCRP] probing Jack and Mark, I was always told that probing is illegal. Period. I was also told that the DNR didn't want to know about it if we were probing. I have also heard that getting permission from the township trustee was fine too. I think it would be all quite simple if we could just get a permit to probe so that we are legal. It takes the guesswork out of it, and then we don't have to worry about it. As for saying that "probing for 'artifacts' implies that you want it for personal use.etc.." that is an interpretation of the law. We either need legislation or a permit that gives us legal authority to probe - it needs to be that cut and dry. So I understand Mark's feelings about probing in front of 100's of people drivng by. Angela Tielking ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:07 AM Subject: [INPCRP] (no subject) > > We have been thru this before. Probing for "Artifacts' implies that > you want it for your personal use, or swap meet, or sell to someone. We Probe > down here in Floyd County to find the "Broken Pieces" only to repair a stone, or > stones and for no other reason. We were told if we had a letter from the Twp. > Trustee to find and repair the stones we were covered legally. That is > because the Trustee is Responsible for the cemeteries and their condition and they > certainly cant find the time to do the job themselves, so they must designate a > responsible party to do it for them. > > It's for darn sure If members of the INPCRP cant probe, who else > knows enough about the care necessary to do it safely. I pointed out that if > I cant Probe, and have to submit a probing plan every time I work on a > cemetery, then My volunteering is over and the cemeteries I have found can go back > to their former state. You should know how to be careful probing, and digging > around the piece, or pieces so as not to further damage them. If you don't > know, then you should accompany someone from the INPCRP and learn. > > I probed for broken pieces in California and started when I came back > to Indiana late 1995. I feel I know how by now. Its for darn sure just anyone > cant take a probe and a shovel out and start. They need guidance. You can do > as you wish about "Probing," I don't know how much you know about it. I have > stopped people who came out and was going to help me. I told them that if they > wanted to learn, work with me and help until I was satisfied they knew what > they were doing. > Some wont agree with me, but one thing is for sure, you cant just start. > Really, the Legislature needs more protection laws for our cemeteries than just > "Probing". > > Jack E. Briles Sr. > Floyd Co. Cord. INPCRP > Po Box 444 > New Albany, In 47151-0444 > > > > > IC 14-21-1-26 > Disturbance of grounds for purpose of discovering artifacts or burial > objects > Sec. 26. (a) A person who disturbs the ground for the purpose of discovering > artifacts or burial objects must do so in accordance with a plan approved by > the department under section 25 of this chapter or under IC 14-3-3.4-14 > (before its repeal). > (b) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally violates this > section commits a Class A misdemeanor. > As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.14. > > > > > Jack > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. > Thank you. > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > http://www.inpcrp.org .

Hello the list, Seems you have multiple debates going on in the same thread. It might be better to discuss and resolve these one at a time. It is my understanding that the probing question, and in fact any ground disturbance within 100-feet of cemeteries, has already been asked and adequately answered. In Indiana, the Trustees are the custodians of cemeteries in their respective townships. There may be other entities (Cemetery Boards or Foundations) that are also considered the legal custodians of a cemetery; however, for the most part this responsibility falls on the Township Trustee. As such, the Trustee is responsible for, among other things, grounds keeping and cemetery monument maintenance. These duties often necessitate ground disturbance within a cemetery; particularly when the cemetery is still active, landscaping is necessary or when monuments have been toppled either by forces of nature or vandalism. Probing for and excavating base and foot stones that have somehow been obscured is all part of this process, and is NOT in any way illegal if undertaken by cemetery custodian(s). It is also understood that a Township Trustee or other legal custodian may contract to have this work done, and may provide cemetery restoration specialists (of their discretion) with written permission to carry out necessary repairs including any that may require ground disturbance. It follows then that probing or ground disturbance in cemeteries is only illegal if undertaken without the expressed permission of the custodian of the property. The probing issue then seems cut and dried. If you don't have written permission to be disturbing cemetery grounds, you are probably ill-advised to be doing so in the first place and there is a state regulation in place for those who neglect or otherwise refuse to get permission. I'm sure that there will be some exceptions to this interpretation...there always is, but the question of probing and other ground disturbance as a function of cemetery restoration activities is most certainly addressed by getting permission from the proper authorities in the first place. Regards to all, Rich Green Historic Archaeological Research 4338 Hadley Court West Lafayette, IN 47906 Office: (765) 464-8735 Mobile: (765) 427-4082 www.har-indy.com

Unless the cemeteries are on private property, in which case many pioneer cemeteries are. In those cases, it is my understanding the trustees have no jurisdiction over what goes on, and neither would a cemetery commission or cemetery board. Herein lies the main problem we have with pioneer cemeteries! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Green" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Custodial permission (was probing) > Hello the list, > > Seems you have multiple debates going on in the same thread. It might be better to discuss and resolve these one at a time. It is my understanding that the probing question, and in fact any ground disturbance within 100-feet of cemeteries, has already been asked and adequately answered. > > In Indiana, the Trustees are the custodians of cemeteries in their respective townships. There may be other entities (Cemetery Boards or Foundations) that are also considered the legal custodians of a cemetery; however, for the most part this responsibility falls on the Township Trustee. As such, the Trustee is responsible for, among other things, grounds keeping and cemetery monument maintenance. These duties often necessitate ground disturbance within a cemetery; particularly when the cemetery is still active, landscaping is necessary or when monuments have been toppled either by forces of nature or vandalism. Probing for and excavating base and foot stones that have somehow been obscured is all part of this process, and is NOT in any way illegal if undertaken by cemetery custodian(s). > > It is also understood that a Township Trustee or other legal custodian may contract to have this work done, and may provide cemetery restoration specialists (of their discretion) with written permission to carry out necessary repairs including any that may require ground disturbance. It follows then that probing or ground disturbance in cemeteries is only illegal if undertaken without the expressed permission of the custodian of the property. > > The probing issue then seems cut and dried. If you don't have written permission to be disturbing cemetery grounds, you are probably ill-advised to be doing so in the first place and there is a state regulation in place for those who neglect or otherwise refuse to get permission. > > I'm sure that there will be some exceptions to this interpretation...there always is, but the question of probing and other ground disturbance as a function of cemetery restoration activities is most certainly addressed by getting permission from the proper authorities in the first place. > > Regards to all, > > Rich Green > Historic Archaeological Research > 4338 Hadley Court > West Lafayette, IN 47906 > Office: (765) 464-8735 > Mobile: (765) 427-4082 > www.har-indy.com > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Visit the INPCRP on the web at http://www.inpcrp.org >