In a message dated 4/5/02 7:08:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time, maryalicepa@earthlink.net writes: > Heather, a good place to check would be the agronomy depts at Purdue or > Illinois. > > MaryAlice Parks > It will be hard to find comprehensive studies, because burning cemeteries is so rare there has never been a need to do a study. The Indiana Limestone Institute in Bedford, IN. Knows nothing about anything like this. And if you do a study in the cemeteries, will the stones last long enough to complete a factual study. And on whose word do we depend for this.? Also to say over a number of years nothing has happened, is like saying I have never had an automobile accident in my life. And then (Bang) it happens, then it's to late. For a Scientific study, we need to know certain things before any burning. Such as Air temperature, (Are the stones Cold when the Quick heat from the fire hits them), condition of the stones, (Verifiable) actual average height of the grass or (Wild Flowers). Before Photographs, also Photographs at measured intervals of time between burnings, Examination of each stone for weak, cracked, or flaking areas. The temperature at varying places in the cemetery during the burning (The Grass and Wild flowers are thicker in places, causing hotter temperatures as they burn), at varying height's, I.e., during burning, ground level, middle, and extreme heat at the crest of the fire near the top of the stones. Moisture content in the stones, Atmospheric humidity at the time of burning, Type of material the stones are composed of, age, (if can be determined by dates) Discoloration of the stone from the burning (They have a Gray, smoky look,) Having visually looked at the stones over a period of time is not a study, unless the degree of knowledge of the particular stones is within the scope of the knowledge of the person/persons conducting the burn, or affiliated with them, and they can certify no damage has occurred. To determine actual damage to the Tombstones a study with facts must be done. I don't believe the DHPA would allow such a thing to happen to one of their holdings, without A comprehensive study that would prove beyond a doubt no damage would, or had occurred. If this could not be proven, it would not be done. And that is as it should be. Natural fires by lightning has, and will continue to happen, But how many times in the last 150-175 years has it happened in a cemetery. Does anyone have figures on this? (How about even a Guess) And how come it's always someone else's cemetery that just happens to be fortunate enough to be the right one for Burning. I suppose my poor uneducated German Ancestors did not know how to pick a cemetery location. I have found out, you don't do it in an area with Wild Flowers, or Native grasses. Now before everyone jumps on me, put your self in my position (Torn between Flowers and Grass, and Tombstones from our past history.) I believe in the Preservation of all, but just not in the same place. From past Experience, and the (Large chemical companies) these flowers and grass exist only in cemeteries. Why, because the cemeteries were allowed to grow up, even after the Legislature passed Laws forbidding it. They don't grow outside the cemetery because no farmer would ever allow it. I know these Wild Flowers will grow where ever you plant them. I have trouble believing that the Nature Preserve does not have the expertise to transplant these to a nice piece of ground they own and make a showplace out of it without depriving descendants reasonable access to their loved ones grave sites. We all believe in Preservation, just not the same thing, nor in the same way. Bitterness is not in my vocabulary, I believe in facts and also in open discussion. FYI, I have been a Stone Mason since 1955 when I got my union card. I can speak with some degree of Authority. Feel free to critique any thing I have said. Please Post on the List for the benefit of all of us. We are all still in the learning curve. Sincerely, Jack E. Briles, Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator PO Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 E-mail jb502000@aol.com

Jack, I'll bet that there have been plenty of studies conducted on stone materials similar to those used in cemeteries. Thermal shock is routinely used in virtually all material testing. No, they didn't make tombstone sized samples, stand them up in a field full of wild flowers and set fire to the place once a year as a test; however, I'd be willing to bet that there has been a great deal of lab testing that involved repetitive heating and cooling at extreme temperatures. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that there were material tests carried out for fire and flame retardance that closely emulate the stress placed on headstones subjected to long term annual burnings. Common sense seems to suggest that direct and or extreme heating and cooling over time very probably has an adverse effect on headstones. Since we won't live long enough to arrive at a conclusion using the methods of observation you've enumerated, it's probably a good idea to seek evidence and data derived from tests carried out on similar materials for other purposes. I believe that this is the research Heather has agreed to undertake. This is an important topic for discussion since it appears that the state has adopted a program of utilizing early cemeteries for the propagation of native flora, and since folks on this list that are engaged in the restoration and preservation of pioneer monuments have a keen interest in any activity that may tend to cause an undesirable impact. I'm certain that there is an equitable compromise, but in order to arrive at one it will be necessary to be fully informed and armed with the facts. Regards, Rich Green Historic Archaeological Research 4338 Hadley Court West Lafayette, IN 47906 (765) 464-8735 http://www.har-indy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jb502000@aol.com To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Effects of cemetery burning In a message dated 4/5/02 7:08:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time, maryalicepa@earthlink.net writes: > Heather, a good place to check would be the agronomy depts at Purdue or > Illinois. > > MaryAlice Parks > It will be hard to find comprehensive studies, because burning cemeteries is so rare there has never been a need to do a study. The Indiana Limestone Institute in Bedford, IN. Knows nothing about anything like this. And if you do a study in the cemeteries, will the stones last long enough to complete a factual study. And on whose word do we depend for this.? Also to say over a number of years nothing has happened, is like saying I have never had an automobile accident in my life. And then (Bang) it happens, then it's to late. For a Scientific study, we need to know certain things before any burning. Such as Air temperature, (Are the stones Cold when the Quick heat from the fire hits them), condition of the stones, (Verifiable) actual average height of the grass or (Wild Flowers). Before Photographs, also Photographs at measured intervals of time between burnings, Examination of each stone for weak, cracked, or flaking areas. The temperature at varying places in the cemetery during the burning (The Grass and Wild flowers are thicker in places, causing hotter temperatures as they burn), at varying height's, I.e., during burning, ground level, middle, and extreme heat at the crest of the fire near the top of the stones. Moisture content in the stones, Atmospheric humidity at the time of burning, Type of material the stones are composed of, age, (if can be determined by dates) Discoloration of the stone from the burning (They have a Gray, smoky look,) Having visually looked at the stones over a period of time is not a study, unless the degree of knowledge of the particular stones is within the scope of the knowledge of the person/persons conducting the burn, or affiliated with them, and they can certify no damage has occurred. To determine actual damage to the Tombstones a study with facts must be done. I don't believe the DHPA would allow such a thing to happen to one of their holdings, without A comprehensive study that would prove beyond a doubt no damage would, or had occurred. If this could not be proven, it would not be done. And that is as it should be. Natural fires by lightning has, and will continue to happen, But how many times in the last 150-175 years has it happened in a cemetery. Does anyone have figures on this? (How about even a Guess) And how come it's always someone else's cemetery that just happens to be fortunate enough to be the right one for Burning. I suppose my poor uneducated German Ancestors did not know how to pick a cemetery location. I have found out, you don't do it in an area with Wild Flowers, or Native grasses. Now before everyone jumps on me, put your self in my position (Torn between Flowers and Grass, and Tombstones from our past history.) I believe in the Preservation of all, but just not in the same place. From past Experience, and the (Large chemical companies) these flowers and grass exist only in cemeteries. Why, because the cemeteries were allowed to grow up, even after the Legislature passed Laws forbidding it. They don't grow outside the cemetery because no farmer would ever allow it. I know these Wild Flowers will grow where ever you plant them. I have trouble believing that the Nature Preserve does not have the expertise to transplant these to a nice piece of ground they own and make a showplace out of it without depriving descendants reasonable access to their loved ones grave sites. We all believe in Preservation, just not the same thing, nor in the same way. Bitterness is not in my vocabulary, I believe in facts and also in open discussion. FYI, I have been a Stone Mason since 1955 when I got my union card. I can speak with some degree of Authority. Feel free to critique any thing I have said. Please Post on the List for the benefit of all of us. We are all still in the learning curve. Sincerely, Jack E. Briles, Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator PO Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 E-mail jb502000@aol.com ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net.