In a message dated 9/9/2005 8:23:37 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time, goaliema4ever@yahoo.com writes: Mr. Hains, You wrote: You don't have to worry about private contractors working for the local government, being paid by the job, and driving Zero-turn radius Xmart, or Skagg mowers that cut grass at 10 mph, and have a mower deck made from 1/4" thick steel, running into any, let alone some number of headstones and damaging them. As an individual and a business owner who hires private contractors for different purposes, I'm wondering why you as the "person in charge" (so to speak) don't require the contractors you hire to do a job properly? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------- Please read my very first post on this forum (posted (9/6) earlier this week where I explained the situation: I have copied and pasted it below here with highlighting of the section that answers your question: As member of the Madison county cemetery commission I was heavily involved in the restoration of the Chapman- Cottrell cemetery. I just got on the mailing list in response to e-mails forwarded to me from it by others. The MCCC is a volunteer commission. We work under the authority of, and are funded by the County Commissioners office. I have been on the commission for about 7 years. We try to stay out of politics as much as absolutely possible because our mission is to identify and restore the cemeteries in the county to the best extent possible. In past years we had a budget of $10,000 a year. This year, because of the financial strains so many counties in Indiana are suffering and the economic decline of the County Seat (Anderson) over the last couple decades since GM has pulled out the many plants it has here, our budget was cut in half. Now, for those that already did not know it, you have some back ground. I want to provide some insight into our commissions thinking and experience (which BTW has a history of restoring cemeteries in Madison county over twice as long as the INPCRP has existed). These are not excuses but explanations as to why we restore and remount cemetery head stones the way we do. I do not feel we need to apologize for anything and have been disturbed that some posters on this list think they have "just desserts" to dish out to us. 1. Concrete: We set the tablet style headstone markers in concrete because we have no control over who is mowing and how the cemeteries are mowed. Every year we get calls from the public from various townships expressing concern about the maintenance of this cemetery or that one. After the MCCC identifies and restores a cemetery the actual maintenance of the cemetery is passed to the county trustee.The trustees are elected and change frequently in the 14 townships of Madison County. Some trustees take their charge of maintaining the cemeteries in the township seriously, others do not and the only pressure that can be brought on those that do not is purely grass roots political pressure from the citizens of the township. Vandalism, trees, livestock, and MOWING are among the primary modes by which old headstones in our county cemeteries get damaged. Most of the pioneer cemeteries in the county don't get mowed but once a month if that often and thus the vegetation gets pretty high. No matter how much one tries, no matter how careful one is, accidents are going to happen on occasion and we have no guarantee that those mowing the cemeteries in the fourteen townships in the county will always be as careful as we would like. . What other pieces of machinery other than mowing equipment are operated near the markers in our inactive cemeteries on a regular basis? So the use of a concrete foundation with a curb above grade makes it highly unlikely that the old headstones, made from softer more fragile stone will be damaged by mowing and. I have seen plenty of these old headstones scared by just the repetitive use of a weed wacker and others more severely damaged at ground level by what obviously was the passage of a mower deck. Thus the decision to use concrete with a curb is a trade off of trying to protect the headstones we reset. I have seen comments about salts attacking the stone in the headstones. I have seen no such problem here in any of the cemeteries I have visited and inspected which is the vast majority of those listed on our website). What I have seen are a few instances of old headstones snapping off an inch or two above concrete but in every case the headstone was mounted in concrete flush with the grade where it is susceptible to damage to mower decks. We apply RTV silicone or epoxy at the stone-concrete interface in order to seal it. The concrete under grade is installed to be about 30" deep with the lower half configured in a shape like and inverted pyramid to forestall up-lifting from frost. We simply do not have the money to pay for the extra labor and material to go deep enough to get below the frostline. Further, as anyone who has actually dug in these old cemeteries knows, there is a fair chance of hitting an actual grave as you approach 4' of depth. It simply is not possible to establish the exact location of the rows of head stones in some cases. 2. Epoxy: My company sells Polygem Inc. epoxies for industrial uses through out the US and Canada and the manufacturer of that brand I sell produces many varieties and is one of the nations leading experts on polymer rocks, plants, etc, as used in museum displays. His company also has a whole "Mine Products" line for epoxies and polymers used to secure anchors which keep the roofs of underground mines from collapsing and a "Construction Products" division which among many other products, has one that is specified by the Illinois Hwy. department for anchoring rebar and steel pins in repairs on that states concrete roads. I suspect that Kurt Moranuse, President and Manager of Polygem, Inc. in west Chicago, who is a chemical engineer who formulates and manufactures epoxies, and who is the one who recommended the epoxy we use on our markers has forgotten more about their proper use in about any application than anyone posting on the INPCRP board. And I suspect that I have applied a greater quantity of various types of epoxies in various industrial applications than anyone posting messages at the INPCRP. 3. Framing: At one time steel was used to splint fragmented headstones in this county. Shortly after I joined the commission I looked into finding a way to improve on that method because the steel rusts and stains the headstones. Drilling and doweling headstones is expensive, requires a higher skill level than framing, and we have had to work with various contractors to maximize the work we get done for our limited dollar. I looked into using everything from PVC to stainless steel for the frames and in fact we did use some SS on one cemetery. But aluminum has turned out to be the best answer for us. We spray the portion of the frame that will be mounted in the concrete with zinc chromate primer to ward off electrolysis and this is in fact a common method used by design engineers in buildings, water treatment plants, etc where aluminum-concrete interface is required. Anodized aluminum is just too expensive. PVC not strong enough. 4. General We HAVE researched the techniques and not just on the web but in various books published on the subject. I and one other, at our own expense, attended a INPCRP sponsored restoration seminar up in Kokomo a few year back. I wonder how many of you numerous critics here have used their own personal assets to help build a bridge for heavy equipment just to gain access to a cemetery that needs restored? How many here have driven and walked to and into EVERY single known pioneer cemetery in your county at your own expense in order to get GPS coordinates for those cemeteries? How many here have used their own time to lay out a grid system on paper then on the ground to plot the locations of over 50 head stones. Then carefully removed those headstones using their own equipment so a cemetery, having been overrun by livestock for years, can be graded and landscaped before the headstones are replaced and remounted? How many here have researched and searched for years to try and locate the grave of every Revolutionary war veteran in their county. How many here spent the time and effort to put together and maintain a web-site of the quality of the MCCC site? How many here have spent hours probing inch by inch for headstones. How many here have spent the hours and hours and hours of research required to try and locate the graves to best extent possible. Members of the MCCC have done these things and many more and meet the last Wednesday of 11 months of the year to coordiante our ongoing efforts. We are proud of those efforts and our results and that includes our results at the Chapman Cottrell cemetery which have come under such heavy criticism in this forum. Now, I am open to constructive suggestions as how we can improve our restoration procedures within our financial and practical limitations here in Madison County. I am not, however open to statements or implications of that we "are not dedicated", or deserve some "just desserts", etc because, quite frankly, to my knowledge, I nor the MCCC answers to the IMPCRP or any of it's members. I am here for constructive suggestions, if you have none, then I will drop off this list. Have at it. Rob Hains Member, Madison County Cemetery Commission.