Hello the list, This discussion seems to have reached an impasse and has become more argumentative than mutually beneficial or informative. It is unfortunate that this much bandwidth gets wasted on such an important topic with so little anticipation of understanding or compromise. Why don't we see if we can condense and recap what has been said before going any further? Firstly, I'm sure that everyone will agree that both parties to this argument are on the same page when it comes to saving abandoned, neglected and or vandalized cemeteries. I don't think that either side questions the other's motives in this regard. I think it's important to understand that the folks on this list are interested in and actively promoting 'restoration' of pioneer cemeteries...thus the name Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project. The restoration process necessarily involves an effort to restore broken and damaged monuments, as closely as is possible, to their original state. Mr. Hains rightly argues the case for proactive protection of cemetery features, and in particular the need to understand the problems inherent to perpetual cemetery maintenance. Obviously, the potential for damage by careless mowing and maintenance isn't just a Madison County issue. This is a valid topic for in-depth discussion by cemetery restorationists. But, this is where the two sides part ways. The repairs that are being made using methods intentionally designed to prevent further damage during mowing and routine maintenance are not only contrary to restoration processes recognized by the INPCRP, but very probably prohibit any future restoration of these monuments. This argument then is really about the differences between monument 'repair' and monument 'restoration'. It occurs to me that we could get a lot closer on repair vs. restoration methods if the problem of damage caused during ongoing cemetery maintenance can somehow be satisfactorily resolved, or at the very least minimized. Maybe someone should start a new thread that addresses the maintenance and mowing issues? In the meanwhile, I think it's adversarial and impolite to continue this discussion with 'Madison County' as the subject. This is not just a Madison County issue. I hope that the next poster will continue this discussion in the spirit of compromise. Best Regards, Rich Green Historic Archaeological Research 4338 Hadley Court West Lafayette, IN 47906 Office: (765) 464-8735 Mobile: (765) 427-4082 www.har-indy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Usa10sfgaa@aol.com To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Re: Madison County In a message dated 9/8/2005 10:03:54 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, jlfelix24@yahoo.com writes: I sit back and just watch this list a lot, but I decided to chime in this time--about Madison county. You know what? Based on the posts I have read on this board, I have gotten the impression that most of you here live in counties that have governments that have NOTHING to do with maintaining and MOWING the cemeteries, let alone restoring them. The impression I am getting from a fair number of folks here is that private individuals put in their money and time to "save" this or that cemetery and then they find some loving and caring individual to maintain it and mow it in perpetuity. That very few of your counties have any funded governmental system, volunteer or otherwise to identify and restore, much less maintain the old cemeteries. Thus in many counties, people like you whom I am responding to, fix up whole cemeteries, including research, clearing of vegetation, landscaping, fencing, etc, to as near original as humanly possible with donations from private concerns or individuals or out of your own pocket and then pay someone out of your own pockets or are lucky enough to have some very caring and careful volunteers, who mow and maintain the cemeteries you restore to a higher standard than we individuals here in Madison county are able to do. You don't have to worry about private contractors working for the local government, being paid by the job, and driving Zero-turn radius Xmart, or Skagg mowers that cut grass at 10 mph, and have a mower deck made from 1/4" thick steel, running into any, let alone some number of headstones and damaging them. That's great. But at the same time the same individuals are concerned that there are many cemeteries they can't fix or maintain. They see cemetereis that are decaying and they know they can't get to them. Here is our list of cemeteries _Cemetery List_ (http://www.cemeteries-madison-co-in.com/list.htm) . The vast majority of those listed that are not designated as "destroyed" have been restored and are maintained by the county using paid contractors. And the list is complete for the whole county based on the information we have now, though as happens at times, we are just now finding out about another one that may eventually be added to the list. But then again, the list in my old reference from the early days of the MCC has the Cottrell cemetery listed as "destroyed". Who are the great people that maintain the cemeteries you restore? People that do it out of love and not money for decades and take such great care with the work you have done? Rob Hains ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)