I'm sorry, but I cannot accept this argument at all. I've also been through many cemeteries in much the same condition. Regular care and mantainance would have prevented this. Seems to me that if you want to keep the cemetery in good condition, you spend a few days a year giving it some tender loving care, and treating it with respect for both the people found there and the history within. It's not that hard. These are historical cemeteries, they are not nature preserves, and to even think of treating one as such is beyond comprehension. They were never intended to be burned off to keep them up. The only thing that burning will do that regular mantainance will not do is cause damage to the stones. Thats a fact. William Spurlock Saving Graves http://www.savinggraves.com 1) Regular controlled burning prevents the growth of trees and woody shrubs. I have been through plenty of cemeteries that are completely overgrown with trees; burning would have kept this from happening.

At 04:37 PM 9/28/01, you wrote: >However, >1) Regular controlled burning prevents the growth of trees and woody >shrubs. I have been through plenty of cemeteries that are completely >overgrown with trees; burning would have kept this from happening. So will mowing a few times a year.

However, 1) Regular controlled burning prevents the growth of trees and woody shrubs. I have been through plenty of cemeteries that are completely overgrown with trees; burning would have kept this from happening. 2) Land preserved in a natural state by a conservation organization or government entity is not likely to end up being paved over. The truly UNKNOWN burial sites, if they remain unknown (i.e., nobody has discovered that piece of paper yet), will also remain endangered. The KNOWN burial sites on protected land will likely remain protected. Note that I said "sites," not "stones." 3) As far as names, we all know of cemeteries with two, three, or more names. Families move on, new ones take their place, towns disappear, etc. While I'm certainly against the purposeful "renaming" of a cemetery according to the whims of whichever entity controls it at the time, I'm not sure that this has been the case with St. John's Lutheran/Cemetery Barren. I've been under the impression that the cultural site is still St. John's Lutheran, while the natural resource feature is now called Cemetery Barren. Can anyone verify this one way or the other? I personally don't care what a cemetery is called if the site is still intact. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Smead [SMTP:bsmead@gte.net] Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 4:03 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cemeteries and nature Steve, Like you, I also abhor vandalism in our cemeteries. Letting a cemetery go back to it's "natural state" by letting the pretty flowers and grasses grow is, I consider, vandalism. Where will it stop. Next will be trees and scrubs that should also grow. Then the root get into our families remains, headstones get knocked over and in the future there's nothing but a vacant field full of plants. Now, since there is nothing there, and some old paperwork says there used to be a cemetery but nothing else to prove that, why not just put up a mall, or another gas station. ST JOHNS LUTHERAN cemetery will one day do just that. Once you give an inch, you might as will give up, you've lost. Brian E. Smead Terre Haute, Indiana

Steve, Like you, I also abhor vandalism in our cemeteries. Letting a cemetery go back to it's "natural state" by letting the pretty flowers and grasses grow is, I consider, vandalism. Where will it stop. Next will be trees and scrubs that should also grow. Then the root get into our families remains, headstones get knocked over and in the future there's nothing but a vacant field full of plants. Now, since there is nothing there, and some old paperwork says there used to be a cemetery but nothing else to prove that, why not just put up a mall, or another gas station. ST JOHNS LUTHERAN cemetery will one day do just that. Once you give an inch, you might as will give up, you've lost. Brian E. Smead Terre Haute, Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Frevert" <rfrevert@megsinet.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 3:25 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Cemeteries and nature > I have no doubt that this will generate some angry replies, but I have to say that the vitriolic language I've seen regarding whether or not native ecosystems should be maintained in pioneer cemeteries seems to be getting out of hand. Presumably all subscribers to this list are interested in preserving cemeteries; this common cause should serve to unite us, not divide us along lines of pro- or anti-ecology, etc. I have ancestors and relatives buried all over Indiana from one end of the state to the other, in well-kept municipal cemeteries and in completely overgrown family burial grounds close to 200 years old. While I have a strong interest in the stones themselves, I cherish the information found there, and I hate to see how they have weathered over the years due to purely natural causes, it is more important to me that the cemeteries themselves remain intact. A cemetery is not a collection of gravestones; the markers are cultural artifacts, and nothing will prevent th! > eir eventual decay. A cemetery is a burial place for human remains. I absolutely abhor cemetery vandalism, willful or not, but I think the first focus should be on the graves themselves. Surely those of us who support conservation causes are as concerned about preservation as those of us whose interests lie in local history. And surely a cemetery located on land that is permanently protected for its natural resources is safer than one located in the path of rampant and ill-considered development. Native plants don't destroy cemeteries, people do- whether with bovines, baseball bats, or bulldozers. Could a relatively low temperature, fast moving controlled burn damage stones? Possibly. But I'd rather walk through a family plot devoid of stones and covered with wild flowers and grasses ("weeds" are non-native, introduced species that crowd out native plants) than one covered with sod, or blacktop, for that matter. > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version) >

I have no doubt that this will generate some angry replies, but I have to say that the vitriolic language I've seen regarding whether or not native ecosystems should be maintained in pioneer cemeteries seems to be getting out of hand. Presumably all subscribers to this list are interested in preserving cemeteries; this common cause should serve to unite us, not divide us along lines of pro- or anti-ecology, etc. I have ancestors and relatives buried all over Indiana from one end of the state to the other, in well-kept municipal cemeteries and in completely overgrown family burial grounds close to 200 years old. While I have a strong interest in the stones themselves, I cherish the information found there, and I hate to see how they have weathered over the years due to purely natural causes, it is more important to me that the cemeteries themselves remain intact. A cemetery is not a collection of gravestones; the markers are cultural artifacts, and nothing will prevent th! eir eventual decay. A cemetery is a burial place for human remains. I absolutely abhor cemetery vandalism, willful or not, but I think the first focus should be on the graves themselves. Surely those of us who support conservation causes are as concerned about preservation as those of us whose interests lie in local history. And surely a cemetery located on land that is permanently protected for its natural resources is safer than one located in the path of rampant and ill-considered development. Native plants don't destroy cemeteries, people do- whether with bovines, baseball bats, or bulldozers. Could a relatively low temperature, fast moving controlled burn damage stones? Possibly. But I'd rather walk through a family plot devoid of stones and covered with wild flowers and grasses ("weeds" are non-native, introduced species that crowd out native plants) than one covered with sod, or blacktop, for that matter.

In a message dated 9/28/01 11:30:46 AM US Eastern Standard Time, hccu@voyager.net writes: > Subj:[INPCRP] Cemetary Barren > Date:9/28/01 11:30:46 AM US Eastern Standard Time > From: hccu@voyager.net (Howell Curtis) > Reply-to: <A HREF="mailto:INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com">INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com</A> > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > The casual observer might think Cemetary Barren to be a mess, but to > one who studies plants it is a wonder to behold, a microcosm of a > grassland ecosystem that at one time comprised an estimated seventy > thousand acres in Harrison and Washington counties. Today there is > probably less than a hundred acres left of this prairie which supported > herds of bison, elk and deer as well as many species of small mammals > and birds. Cemetary Barren is the most diverse of the barren remnants > with well over one hundred species of native forbs and grasses. The > bison and elk are gone but this precious remnant should be preserved > for future generations. In my opinion it is a fitting memorial to the > early > settlers and to those who are buried there. > > Howell Curtis > > Dear Mr. Curtis, The following is how I feel about the "Beauty" of your "Memorial" If you are so impressed with it, why don't you have some transplanted to your own > cemetery. I also take great offense at you referring to St. Johns Lutheran > Cemetery as "BARRENS" Maybe we can get the name of your familles cemetery > changed to "BARRENS, if we can get the Grass Transplanted. In the mean time > I would appreciate it if you would, in any further communications refer to > the cemetery of MY ANCESTORS as ST JOHNS LUTHERAN, Or Keep your Ecological > opinions where ever they belong. If you live close to the cemetery, you are > an exception as to appreciating the "aesthetic Beauty of Grass and weeds." > A cemetery is not the place to Grow this "Type of Beauty" It is there only > because the Former Township Trustee was not Qualified, nor cared to follow > IC-23-14-68-3 (4) as added by P.L.52-1997, Sec.42 to keep it cleaned. This > was Implemented after the DNR started their "Maintaining" of the cemetery, > as they say, "About" 20 years ago. As I am SURE you must know if a Law is > passed, or amended, it must be adhered to, to the letter. Allowing this > cemetery to grow up is in direct violation of the Law as now written. My > family did not Bury their dead in a weedy field as you suggest. I would > venture to guess yours didn't either. Before you consider this Cemetery a > "Beautiful memorial" , Remember you said there was approximately 100 acres > Left. SO WHY IN GOD'S NAME THIS CEMETERY. Clean this up and go study your > plants in some Field where it doesn't interfere with people wanting to pay > their respects.!!!! You said this was once covered by 70,000 Acres of this > Grass and "Weeds" at one time. Maybe a GLACIER did to, but I don't want it > back. Heck lets Import some Bison, they could feed on the Grass. Please > Feel quite free to answer this. !! I would love to hear your response. And > Jack E. Briles Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585

The casual observer might think Cemetary Barren to be a mess, but to one who studies plants it is a wonder to behold, a microcosm of a grassland ecosystem that at one time comprised an estimated seventy thousand acres in Harrison and Washington counties. Today there is probably less than a hundred acres left of this prairie which supported herds of bison, elk and deer as well as many species of small mammals and birds. Cemetary Barren is the most diverse of the barren remnants with well over one hundred species of native forbs and grasses. The bison and elk are gone but this precious remnant should be preserved for future generations. In my opinion it is a fitting memorial to the early settlers and to those who are buried there. Howell Curtis

Lois, You are right on it!!! Thanks <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/wannascrap/">Grandma's 1st Angel</A> Researching: Shaffer, Lowery, Frank, Carney, O'Malley, Bell, Hunnicutt, Biggs, Large, Dunkelbarger, Fry, Middaugh, Mounce, Schroeder, Welch, Whirl, Wrench, Livingston, Roach, Brearley,Taboas

Dear Sharon: Send 'em on. I just need a couple of days to finish the count and get them bound for presentation. Lois ----- Original Message ----- From: "mills" <mills@reliable-net.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Updated tally on Petition signatures > > Lois, > > If I could put my petition in the mail on LATE Saturday, I could get you > several Parke Co petitions. Is that too late? > > Sharon Mills > > > At 10:44 PM 9/26/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Well, Jack has delivered another bundle of petitions. Here are the numbers > >as of 10:30 PM on Wednesday, 9/26/2001: > > > >1,476 Indiana signatures > >+ 198 From other states > > > >1,674 TOTAL SIGNATURES TO DATE > > > >That's about DOUBLE the number of signatures we delivered a few years ago > >when we were first getting started. Good show!!!!! > > > >REMEMBER: The deadline for returning petition signatures has been extended > >to October 1 and they will be delivered to Rep. Lytle in Madison at the > >Cemetery Restoration Workshop on 10/6/2001. > > > >We have no signatures yet from the following counties: > > > >BENTON CARROLL CASS CLAY CLINTON > >FULTON HUNTINGTON JENNINGS LaGRANGE > >MARSHALL MONTGOMERY OHIO PARKE PERRY > >POSEY SULLIVAN VERMILLION WARREN WHITE > > > >If you know ANYONE in any of these counties who would be interested in > >signing a petition, please get in touch with them. I would REALLY like to > >hand over to Rep. Lytle signatures from every single Indiana county. > > > >See http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/tabulation.html for county-by-county > >breakdown. > > > > > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > >If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to > LoisMauk@usa.net. > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Please do not send queries through this list. > >

Lois, If I could put my petition in the mail on LATE Saturday, I could get you several Parke Co petitions. Is that too late? Sharon Mills At 10:44 PM 9/26/01 -0400, you wrote: >Well, Jack has delivered another bundle of petitions. Here are the numbers >as of 10:30 PM on Wednesday, 9/26/2001: > >1,476 Indiana signatures >+ 198 From other states > >1,674 TOTAL SIGNATURES TO DATE > >That's about DOUBLE the number of signatures we delivered a few years ago >when we were first getting started. Good show!!!!! > >REMEMBER: The deadline for returning petition signatures has been extended >to October 1 and they will be delivered to Rep. Lytle in Madison at the >Cemetery Restoration Workshop on 10/6/2001. > >We have no signatures yet from the following counties: > >BENTON CARROLL CASS CLAY CLINTON >FULTON HUNTINGTON JENNINGS LaGRANGE >MARSHALL MONTGOMERY OHIO PARKE PERRY >POSEY SULLIVAN VERMILLION WARREN WHITE > >If you know ANYONE in any of these counties who would be interested in >signing a petition, please get in touch with them. I would REALLY like to >hand over to Rep. Lytle signatures from every single Indiana county. > >See http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/tabulation.html for county-by-county >breakdown. > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > > >

Well, Jack has delivered another bundle of petitions. Here are the numbers as of 10:30 PM on Wednesday, 9/26/2001: 1,476 Indiana signatures + 198 From other states 1,674 TOTAL SIGNATURES TO DATE That's about DOUBLE the number of signatures we delivered a few years ago when we were first getting started. Good show!!!!! REMEMBER: The deadline for returning petition signatures has been extended to October 1 and they will be delivered to Rep. Lytle in Madison at the Cemetery Restoration Workshop on 10/6/2001. We have no signatures yet from the following counties: BENTON CARROLL CASS CLAY CLINTON FULTON HUNTINGTON JENNINGS LaGRANGE MARSHALL MONTGOMERY OHIO PARKE PERRY POSEY SULLIVAN VERMILLION WARREN WHITE If you know ANYONE in any of these counties who would be interested in signing a petition, please get in touch with them. I would REALLY like to hand over to Rep. Lytle signatures from every single Indiana county. See http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/tabulation.html for county-by-county breakdown.

This is so neat, you guys! Way to go.... Without start up funding it's going to be tough. But that's what we Americans can be when we have to, right? Good job! Sue Silver CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Lois Mauk <loismauk@home.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 7:09 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Henry Co. Cemetery Commission > Bud Bush was good enough to e-mail me the Henry Co. Commissioners' > ordinance of 9/19/2001 which created their new County Cemetery Commission. > I've added a link to the ordinance in PDF format to: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/commissions.html > > Lois > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > >

Bud Bush was good enough to e-mail me the Henry Co. Commissioners' ordinance of 9/19/2001 which created their new County Cemetery Commission. I've added a link to the ordinance in PDF format to: http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/commissions.html Lois

WOw. I hope you enjoy yourself! Have you been there before? I live about an hour North of there. How far away are you coming? THere's a new building going up in Auburn, by the way. ----- Original Message ----- From: M. Leatherman <m.leath@verizon.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 9:47 PM Subject: [INPCRP] re: records > Hi List, > In two weeks, my dad and I will be going to the Allen County Library in Ft. Wayne, IN - the second largest place for genealogy records in the U.S. Just to let you know I will take requests to do a lookup for either census,death index, birth index, or marriage index. I will, however, request a contriubution to defray costs of copies and postage. Please include the county and state; I am on more than one mailing list. Thanks. > Monica > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > >

Thank you, Lois, for taking good care of us! Ruth in SE Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@home.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] re: records > Dear members of the INPCRP: > > Monica Leatherman joined the INPCRP e-mail discussion group at 9:17 PM on > 9/23/2001. At 10:52 PM on 9/23/2001, Ms. Leatherman posted a message > soliciting lookups to underwrite her trip to the Allen Co. Library. At > 12:15 A.M. on 9/24/2001, I sent the message below to Ms. Leatherman. At > 4:06 PM on 9/24/2001, Ms. Leatherman UNsubscribed herself from the INPCRP > e-mail group. > > Apparently, based on reports that I've received, Ms. Leatherman mass > subscribed to dozens of Indiana lists soliciting "business". I hope you did > not risk your hard-earned money in hopes of her doing look-ups for you. > > Lois > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@home.com> > To: <m.leath@verizon.net> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 12:15 AM > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] re: records > > > > Dear Monica: > > > > I am the list manager for the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration > Project > > (INPCRP). You joined our e-mail group earlier this evening. > > > > This is an inappropriate forum for posting messages concerning lookups, > etc. > > as our focus is ENTIRELY on identifying, protecting and preserving pioneer > > cemeteries in this state. Thank you for respecting the purpose of this > > list. > > > > Lois Mauk > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. >

Woohoo!!! Congratulations to Bud and Angela. It's been a long, hard haul. I've very proud of both of you. If you get a chance, e-mail me a scan of the ordinance and I'll add it to the webpage. Lois ----- Original Message ----- From: "UEB" <ueb@iei.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 6:21 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Correction > CORRECTION on previous URL: > We are finally legal..............commission members are soon to be appointed. We should be up and running by the end of this month........if not sooner. See story in today's New Castle Courier-Times at: > http://www.newcastlein.com/insidenews.asp?ID=7511 > > UEB > Henry County > INPCRP

Way to go Lois....I think many of us thought it highly irregular of this person to be soliciting business in this manner. John -----Original Message----- From: Lois Mauk <loismauk@home.com> To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Monday, September 24, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] re: records >Dear members of the INPCRP: > >Monica Leatherman joined the INPCRP e-mail discussion group at 9:17 PM on >9/23/2001. At 10:52 PM on 9/23/2001, Ms. Leatherman posted a message >soliciting lookups to underwrite her trip to the Allen Co. Library. At >12:15 A.M. on 9/24/2001, I sent the message below to Ms. Leatherman. At >4:06 PM on 9/24/2001, Ms. Leatherman UNsubscribed herself from the INPCRP >e-mail group. > >Apparently, based on reports that I've received, Ms. Leatherman mass >subscribed to dozens of Indiana lists soliciting "business". I hope you did >not risk your hard-earned money in hopes of her doing look-ups for you. > >Lois > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@home.com> >To: <m.leath@verizon.net> >Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 12:15 AM >Subject: Re: [INPCRP] re: records > > >> Dear Monica: >> >> I am the list manager for the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration >Project >> (INPCRP). You joined our e-mail group earlier this evening. >> >> This is an inappropriate forum for posting messages concerning lookups, >etc. >> as our focus is ENTIRELY on identifying, protecting and preserving pioneer >> cemeteries in this state. Thank you for respecting the purpose of this >> list. >> >> Lois Mauk >> > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net.

Dear members of the INPCRP: Monica Leatherman joined the INPCRP e-mail discussion group at 9:17 PM on 9/23/2001. At 10:52 PM on 9/23/2001, Ms. Leatherman posted a message soliciting lookups to underwrite her trip to the Allen Co. Library. At 12:15 A.M. on 9/24/2001, I sent the message below to Ms. Leatherman. At 4:06 PM on 9/24/2001, Ms. Leatherman UNsubscribed herself from the INPCRP e-mail group. Apparently, based on reports that I've received, Ms. Leatherman mass subscribed to dozens of Indiana lists soliciting "business". I hope you did not risk your hard-earned money in hopes of her doing look-ups for you. Lois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@home.com> To: <m.leath@verizon.net> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] re: records > Dear Monica: > > I am the list manager for the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project > (INPCRP). You joined our e-mail group earlier this evening. > > This is an inappropriate forum for posting messages concerning lookups, etc. > as our focus is ENTIRELY on identifying, protecting and preserving pioneer > cemeteries in this state. Thank you for respecting the purpose of this > list. > > Lois Mauk >

In a message dated 9/24/01 11:11:03 AM US Eastern Standard Time, YourRelative@aol.com writes: > I sent in a petition with three signatures from Colorado That's Good, they all count Jack E. Briles Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585

In a message dated 9/24/01 2:48:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time, wmmahan@comsys.net writes: > I have some more signatures coming from Rush Co. Diana > > > Thats Ok, the Deadline on petitions is Oct.1 Jack E. Briles Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585