Earlier this week I had an opportunity to ask my Mother if she recalls any of our family/neighborhood cemeteries being burned off. She advised me they had never been burned off in her lifetime. She further advised me that each Memorial Day the families would gather at the cemetery and each family would clear off their own group of lots with scythes and sickles. Mother is 92. They had enough problems each year with lightning strikes setting off fires in the Black Water Marsh and burning off 8,000 acres, more or less, of prairie grasses, etc. Does anyone know if lichen is on the endangered species list? Does anyone know if algae and fungus are on the endangered species list? It takes algae and fungus to create lichen. Seriously, if any of you will have an opportunity to speak, in the near future, to the Chairperson of the Natural Resources Committee or the Judicial Committee, of the Indiana General Assembly, make them aware of the burning of cemeteries by DNR. I believe that the Governor's office, the Attorney General's office, the Senate President, the Speaker of the Indiana House and other "political power houses" are going to be quite upset when they find out what is going on; and they will find out, if they haven't already! :-) Based on the evidence presented on this list the State of Indiana is indeed in violation of the Indiana Constitution. Cheers! Sam Cline Hoosier Web http://www.hoosierweb.org/ The candle light will always be gleaming through the sycamores. The latch string is always out.

Dear Mr.. Curtis, My concern is the stones which are damp or having drawn some moisture will have a tendency to crack and literally explode the stone....Have you ever seen this happen with limestone flag stones. I have and it ain't a pretty sight......why take a chance on destruction of the headstones of our Indiana Pioneers? John Roush -----Original Message----- From: Howell Curtis <hccu@voyager.net> To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, September 29, 2001 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cemetary Barren >Dear Ms. Silver, > >I see no evidence that the gravestones are being damaged by fire. In fact, >the fire may prevent the growth of lichens that can be an instrument of >degradation. >If the Church owns the land then why was the cemetery abandoned years ago? >If the IDNR hadn't instituted the annual burning program, the cemetery would >have been taken over by bushes and brambles long ago. >Another point I would like to make is just how was the cemetery taken care of >in the past, before the annual burning program was started. It couldn't have >been >very intensive or the prairie plants would have been killed out. Could it be >that our >forefathers knew something that most of the members of this forum don't? Maybe >they recognised it as the special place that it is and let nature take its >course. I don't >know but that is a possibility. >I would like to know how that someone who is dead can be punished? If you can > >explain that to me I would be glad to know. >The plants could be taken to another area, either by digging them up or >collecting >seed and then planting the seed, but it wouldn't be the same. These plants have >grown toghether in a symbiotic relationship in this plot of land for hundreds or >even thousands of years. They were here before the first settlers came and >probably before the Indians were here. It is highly unlikely that this symbiosis >could ever be duplicated. > >Respectfully, > >Howell Curtis > >Sue Silver wrote: > >> Mr. Curtis, >> >> With all due respect, if the DNR or whoever is performing this "project" >> does not own the property on which they have undertaken it, they should >> cease and desist. The burning off of the grasses and weeds will ultimately >> bring the destruction of the memorial monuments erected over those pioneers' >> graves by their loved ones. The monuments are also considered private >> property in most states. >> >> If Jack Briles is correct and the land title is in the Lutheran Church of >> that area, then the Church's private land rights have been violated, not to >> mention a possible constitutional violation of the doctrine of separation of >> church and state. >> >> While I would agree with you our nation has lost much to growth and progress >> over the past 200 years of it's expansionism, we must never lose sight of >> our precious freedoms that make this nation so great. The Church purchased >> or received the title to this ground and until that title is deemed to have >> failed or has been legally transferred, the state has stepped on the toes of >> it's freedom. >> >> I personally believe that by using a cemetery to undertake this project of >> conservation of the plant life you mention, those who claim it is being done >> as a memorial to the settlers and pioneers must be aware of the irony of >> such a memorialization. It was, after all, those same pioneer citizens who >> moved West with so many others and, through that movement, inadvertently >> caused the loss of the vegetation of which you speak. Sounds more like >> these dead pioneers are being punished for being participants in those >> losses. >> >> Better that some vacant land be found for this cause. I believe the dead >> and the monuments erected so they may always be remembered should be treated >> with the same respect as when their loved ones were still here to ensure >> that condition. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Sue Silver >> California >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Howell Curtis" <hccu@voyager.net> >> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:30 AM >> Subject: [INPCRP] Cemetary Barren >> >> > The casual observer might think Cemetary Barren to be a mess, but to >> > one who studies plants it is a wonder to behold, a microcosm of a >> > grassland ecosystem that at one time comprised an estimated seventy >> > thousand acres in Harrison and Washington counties. Today there is >> > probably less than a hundred acres left of this prairie which supported >> > herds of bison, elk and deer as well as many species of small mammals >> > and birds. Cemetary Barren is the most diverse of the barren remnants >> > with well over one hundred species of native forbs and grasses. The >> > bison and elk are gone but this precious remnant should be preserved >> > for future generations. In my opinion it is a fitting memorial to the >> > early >> > settlers and to those who are buried there. >> > >> > Howell Curtis >> > >> > >> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >> > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. >> > >> > >> >> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >> Please do not send queries through this list. > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England >and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals."

Dear Ms. Silver, I see no evidence that the gravestones are being damaged by fire. In fact, the fire may prevent the growth of lichens that can be an instrument of degradation. If the Church owns the land then why was the cemetery abandoned years ago? If the IDNR hadn't instituted the annual burning program, the cemetery would have been taken over by bushes and brambles long ago. Another point I would like to make is just how was the cemetery taken care of in the past, before the annual burning program was started. It couldn't have been very intensive or the prairie plants would have been killed out. Could it be that our forefathers knew something that most of the members of this forum don't? Maybe they recognised it as the special place that it is and let nature take its course. I don't know but that is a possibility. I would like to know how that someone who is dead can be punished? If you can explain that to me I would be glad to know. The plants could be taken to another area, either by digging them up or collecting seed and then planting the seed, but it wouldn't be the same. These plants have grown toghether in a symbiotic relationship in this plot of land for hundreds or even thousands of years. They were here before the first settlers came and probably before the Indians were here. It is highly unlikely that this symbiosis could ever be duplicated. Respectfully, Howell Curtis Sue Silver wrote: > Mr. Curtis, > > With all due respect, if the DNR or whoever is performing this "project" > does not own the property on which they have undertaken it, they should > cease and desist. The burning off of the grasses and weeds will ultimately > bring the destruction of the memorial monuments erected over those pioneers' > graves by their loved ones. The monuments are also considered private > property in most states. > > If Jack Briles is correct and the land title is in the Lutheran Church of > that area, then the Church's private land rights have been violated, not to > mention a possible constitutional violation of the doctrine of separation of > church and state. > > While I would agree with you our nation has lost much to growth and progress > over the past 200 years of it's expansionism, we must never lose sight of > our precious freedoms that make this nation so great. The Church purchased > or received the title to this ground and until that title is deemed to have > failed or has been legally transferred, the state has stepped on the toes of > it's freedom. > > I personally believe that by using a cemetery to undertake this project of > conservation of the plant life you mention, those who claim it is being done > as a memorial to the settlers and pioneers must be aware of the irony of > such a memorialization. It was, after all, those same pioneer citizens who > moved West with so many others and, through that movement, inadvertently > caused the loss of the vegetation of which you speak. Sounds more like > these dead pioneers are being punished for being participants in those > losses. > > Better that some vacant land be found for this cause. I believe the dead > and the monuments erected so they may always be remembered should be treated > with the same respect as when their loved ones were still here to ensure > that condition. > > Respectfully, > > Sue Silver > California > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Howell Curtis" <hccu@voyager.net> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:30 AM > Subject: [INPCRP] Cemetary Barren > > > The casual observer might think Cemetary Barren to be a mess, but to > > one who studies plants it is a wonder to behold, a microcosm of a > > grassland ecosystem that at one time comprised an estimated seventy > > thousand acres in Harrison and Washington counties. Today there is > > probably less than a hundred acres left of this prairie which supported > > herds of bison, elk and deer as well as many species of small mammals > > and birds. Cemetary Barren is the most diverse of the barren remnants > > with well over one hundred species of native forbs and grasses. The > > bison and elk are gone but this precious remnant should be preserved > > for future generations. In my opinion it is a fitting memorial to the > > early > > settlers and to those who are buried there. > > > > Howell Curtis > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Please do not send queries through this list.

Lois, My name is Bill Nunnally I have Benton County but I live in Fountain Co. so it shows for Fountain and not Benton. Benton Co. is covered but it will not show it. Bill *************************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debby Beheler" <d001b@yahoo.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Updated tally on Petition signatures > Lois, > I will be putting 3 petition sheets in the mail > tomorrow. There are 4 signatures from Cass Co and one > from Carroll and 8 signatures from 5 other Indiana > counties. Also included are 31 signatures from 11 > states - IL, IA, OH, WI, MO, NE, KY, TX, AZ, FL, and > MN. (I attended the FGS conference in IA in Sept.) > --- Lois Mauk <loismauk@home.com> wrote: > > Well, Jack has delivered another bundle of > > petitions. Here are the numbers > > as of 10:30 PM on Wednesday, 9/26/2001: > > > > 1,476 Indiana signatures > > + 198 From other states > > > > 1,674 TOTAL SIGNATURES TO DATE > > > > That's about DOUBLE the number of signatures we > > delivered a few years ago > > when we were first getting started. Good show!!!!! > > > > REMEMBER: The deadline for returning petition > > signatures has been extended > > to October 1 and they will be delivered to Rep. > > Lytle in Madison at the > > Cemetery Restoration Workshop on 10/6/2001. > > > > We have no signatures yet from the following > > counties: > > > > BENTON CARROLL CASS > > CLAY CLINTON > > FULTON HUNTINGTON JENNINGS > > LaGRANGE > > MARSHALL MONTGOMERY OHIO > > PARKE PERRY > > POSEY SULLIVAN VERMILLION > > WARREN WHITE > > > > If you know ANYONE in any of these counties who > > would be interested in > > signing a petition, please get in touch with them. > > I would REALLY like to > > hand over to Rep. Lytle signatures from every single > > Indiana county. > > > > See http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/tabulation.html > > for county-by-county > > breakdown. > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > If you know of some good cemetery related links, > > send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. > http://phone.yahoo.com > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- > "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families > are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is > undisguised. This is a cemetery. > "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, > historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. > "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved > in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - > not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family > memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. > "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of > yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery > exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." > --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA > >

Lois, I will be putting 3 petition sheets in the mail tomorrow. There are 4 signatures from Cass Co and one from Carroll and 8 signatures from 5 other Indiana counties. Also included are 31 signatures from 11 states - IL, IA, OH, WI, MO, NE, KY, TX, AZ, FL, and MN. (I attended the FGS conference in IA in Sept.) --- Lois Mauk <loismauk@home.com> wrote: > Well, Jack has delivered another bundle of > petitions. Here are the numbers > as of 10:30 PM on Wednesday, 9/26/2001: > > 1,476 Indiana signatures > + 198 From other states > > 1,674 TOTAL SIGNATURES TO DATE > > That's about DOUBLE the number of signatures we > delivered a few years ago > when we were first getting started. Good show!!!!! > > REMEMBER: The deadline for returning petition > signatures has been extended > to October 1 and they will be delivered to Rep. > Lytle in Madison at the > Cemetery Restoration Workshop on 10/6/2001. > > We have no signatures yet from the following > counties: > > BENTON CARROLL CASS > CLAY CLINTON > FULTON HUNTINGTON JENNINGS > LaGRANGE > MARSHALL MONTGOMERY OHIO > PARKE PERRY > POSEY SULLIVAN VERMILLION > WARREN WHITE > > If you know ANYONE in any of these counties who > would be interested in > signing a petition, please get in touch with them. > I would REALLY like to > hand over to Rep. Lytle signatures from every single > Indiana county. > > See http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/tabulation.html > for county-by-county > breakdown. > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, > send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com

In a message dated 9/28/01 6:12:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wspurlock@savinggraves.com writes: > These are historical cemeteries, they are not nature preserves, and to even > think of treating one as such is beyond comprehension. Hi Bill and everyone, Case in point -- some cemeteries covet their status as nature preserves. Have a look at Mount Auburn in Cambridge, Spring Grove in Cincinnati, Mount Hope in Rochester, Green-Wood in Brooklyn, Woodland in Dayton -- just to name a few. They are most certainly considered nature preserves and arboretums. They all retain some land that is undeveloped because it reinforces the intent of the Rural Cemetery Movement landscape architect/designer. I think your remark may be meant to refer to "pioneer" cemeteries which did not originally have "planned" natural growth incorporated into the design. Just wanted to make sure that important fact was duly noted. Please continue with your discussion -- this is most interesting. Katie Karrick (The Cemetery Lady) Ohio Cemetery Preservation Society http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohcps

THANKS, KYLE Jack E. Briles Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585

In a message dated 9/29/01 9:17:03 AM US Eastern Standard Time, ssilver1951@jps.net writes: > A cemetery is not a laboratory and they were never intended for > such use. > > Sue, Since I will no Longer discuss cemeteries with any one with such an opinion, and > who doesn't know the difference between the meaning of "yours" and "Mine" > when discussing cemeteries. Which simply stated means, if we say that to > each other we mean the ones you deal with and the ones I deal with, not > implying that you or I "Own" them. To even reach a conclusion like that is > absurd. Incidentally, no where on the only piece of paper in existence on > the cemetery does it mention the word "BARREN" or "BARRENS". I have A > copy. The Cemetery is officially on file in the WPA Cemetery Blueprint > Diagram Book from 1939 in the Recorders office in Harrison County as > "LUTHERAN" I appreciate your common sense response, It helps keep things > in perspective, Thanks Jack E. Briles Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585

I can appreciate the beauty and historical value of an area (field, pasture, etc) of pioneer grasses (they all look like weeds to me). In fact, earlier this year when our cemetery lost our caretaker and before one was hired, our grass grew taller than I had ever seen it. I was amazed at all of the wildflowers that grew on some of the graves in the old section of the cemetery, obviously planted there 50-100 years ago by family members. But our society's tradition has changed and we now expect our cemetery to be manicured and well maintained. I, too, have family buried in cemeteries where no care is given, except that which a few of us do each spring, which lasts only a few weeks and then reverts back to the way it was. (Maybe this will change with the inception of the Henry Co. Cemetery Commission) I see no difference between one that is left to nature and one that is reverted back to nature. The fact is, they appear to be abandoned. Keep in mind that not only did our pioneer ancestors clear this land for 'development', but in many areas they drained it as well. My question is simple...if we allow the DNR to let these areas grow wild and appear to be uncared for, what do we do when they want to flood an area where a cemetery exists, supposedly to revert it back to its natural state? For several counties here in Northwest Indiana, this could become an issue in the next few years as the DNR is wanting to revert us back to the swamp that we once were... Tell me, where does it stop? Yes, I agree our pioneer cemeteries may not have been as manicured back in those days, but I can also assure you that they were not without care and maintenance. My research into my cemetery clearly points this out in 1895 and again in 1925 when the cemetery was organized and reorganized, all due to deteriorating maintenance and care. The main reason the DNR uses cemeteries for this purpose is because so few farmers are willing to give up their tillable acres for such a project, and they find little opposition when they converge on an already uncared for cemetery. Kyle D. Conrad

bound selected articles / Doane, Dubois Co. Library at Jasper...The condition of the Jasper graveyard is a disgrace to civilization. (reference to deed etc.) then: The town board should see to its proper fencing and probably by giving some one the use of the unoccupied acre of ground, the balance might be kept in decent condition.(more general)then: The first settlers of this county lie buried there and their graves should not be run over and desecrated by hogs and cattle.We noticed Tuesday that some worse than devils in human shape, had broken a number of old tombstones...{this is not the oldest cemetery in Dubois Co.}....and then the next week this was written,,,,: The members of St. Joseph church have accomplished a much needed and highly creditable work by thoroughly cleaning up their graveyard. It was in a terrible condition, but now looks much better. Now let those who use the graveyard across the creek see to it that that one receives the improvement which it needs so sadly. Respect for the dead is a sacred duty of the living..... copied by Ruth Pride Wheatland ,In.

The problem, Steve, is that the conservationists are allowed to burn the vegetation off on some periodic schedule. This will bring the true ultimate demise of the stones and in a more rapid manner. It is true that most native stone monuments will degrade over time. However, properly cared for and maintained stones can be conserved and their "life" is greatly extended for it. The cause of both the native plant conservationists and the cemetery preservationists doe not need to clash in this manner. The cemeteries are stationary (for the most part), but the native plants projects can be relocated to other lands not currently in use for any other purpose. A cemetery is a place for the permanent deposit of the dead, a place of sacred repose. A cemetery is not a laboratory and they were never intended for such use. I refer you also to my response to Howell Curtis. Sue Silver California ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Frevert" <rfrevert@megsinet.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 1:25 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Cemeteries and nature > I have no doubt that this will generate some angry replies, but I have to say that the vitriolic language I've seen regarding whether or not native ecosystems should be maintained in pioneer cemeteries seems to be getting out of hand. Presumably all subscribers to this list are interested in preserving cemeteries; this common cause should serve to unite us, not divide us along lines of pro- or anti-ecology, etc. I have ancestors and relatives buried all over Indiana from one end of the state to the other, in well-kept municipal cemeteries and in completely overgrown family burial grounds close to 200 years old. While I have a strong interest in the stones themselves, I cherish the information found there, and I hate to see how they have weathered over the years due to purely natural causes, it is more important to me that the cemeteries themselves remain intact. A cemetery is not a collection of gravestones; the markers are cultural artifacts, and nothing will prevent th! > eir eventual decay. A cemetery is a burial place for human remains. I absolutely abhor cemetery vandalism, willful or not, but I think the first focus should be on the graves themselves. Surely those of us who support conservation causes are as concerned about preservation as those of us whose interests lie in local history. And surely a cemetery located on land that is permanently protected for its natural resources is safer than one located in the path of rampant and ill-considered development. Native plants don't destroy cemeteries, people do- whether with bovines, baseball bats, or bulldozers. Could a relatively low temperature, fast moving controlled burn damage stones? Possibly. But I'd rather walk through a family plot devoid of stones and covered with wild flowers and grasses ("weeds" are non-native, introduced species that crowd out native plants) than one covered with sod, or blacktop, for that matter. > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version) > >

Mr. Curtis, With all due respect, if the DNR or whoever is performing this "project" does not own the property on which they have undertaken it, they should cease and desist. The burning off of the grasses and weeds will ultimately bring the destruction of the memorial monuments erected over those pioneers' graves by their loved ones. The monuments are also considered private property in most states. If Jack Briles is correct and the land title is in the Lutheran Church of that area, then the Church's private land rights have been violated, not to mention a possible constitutional violation of the doctrine of separation of church and state. While I would agree with you our nation has lost much to growth and progress over the past 200 years of it's expansionism, we must never lose sight of our precious freedoms that make this nation so great. The Church purchased or received the title to this ground and until that title is deemed to have failed or has been legally transferred, the state has stepped on the toes of it's freedom. I personally believe that by using a cemetery to undertake this project of conservation of the plant life you mention, those who claim it is being done as a memorial to the settlers and pioneers must be aware of the irony of such a memorialization. It was, after all, those same pioneer citizens who moved West with so many others and, through that movement, inadvertently caused the loss of the vegetation of which you speak. Sounds more like these dead pioneers are being punished for being participants in those losses. Better that some vacant land be found for this cause. I believe the dead and the monuments erected so they may always be remembered should be treated with the same respect as when their loved ones were still here to ensure that condition. Respectfully, Sue Silver California ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howell Curtis" <hccu@voyager.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:30 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Cemetary Barren > The casual observer might think Cemetary Barren to be a mess, but to > one who studies plants it is a wonder to behold, a microcosm of a > grassland ecosystem that at one time comprised an estimated seventy > thousand acres in Harrison and Washington counties. Today there is > probably less than a hundred acres left of this prairie which supported > herds of bison, elk and deer as well as many species of small mammals > and birds. Cemetary Barren is the most diverse of the barren remnants > with well over one hundred species of native forbs and grasses. The > bison and elk are gone but this precious remnant should be preserved > for future generations. In my opinion it is a fitting memorial to the > early > settlers and to those who are buried there. > > Howell Curtis > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > >

I would like the List to know I will not get drawn into any more of those type of Discussions. I have used my mail control to avoid becoming involved. I apologize for letting it get out of Hand. Lets use the List for it's original Purpose, Thanks Jack E. Briles Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585

For those of you who didn't check them out earlier this month, there are photos of St. John's Cemetery (the subject of much debate today) at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/barrenscem.html

Dear Cris: My first thought on your question concerning "on private property". Let me CAUTION you here. Just because an old family cemetery is SURROUNDED by privately-owned real estate does NOT mean it is "on private property". A good deal of research is required before one could definitively state the cemetery is on "private property". Remember that after the turn of the 1900s, it became "gauche" to have a cemetery in your yard or on your property. Also, the mention of a cemetery on the deed made the property less attractive to a prospective buyer. For this reason and possibly others as well, cemeteries started "falling off" deeds. There are a number of ways to word a legal description by which one can skirt around the mention of the word "cemetery" or "graveyard" without actually changing the metes and bounds. I highly recommend a careful reading of Marlene Mattox's article on researching cemetery property records. You could investigate this situation and dig up the old deeds running back into the mid- and late-1800s and be quite surprised to find that the old cemetery was indeed an EXCEPTION there but not mentioned on subsequent deeds. If you find then that there is a "hole" in this landowner's property, in which case taxes are not PAID on the cemetery itself, then it WOULD be the statutory responsibility of the Township Trustee. In the vast majority of cases, no one is going to bother tracking the deeds back through the decades to the mid-1800s and no one will know without a survey and title search being done that the property contained a cemetery. On the other hand, if you go to the courthouse and pull up the current deed, you might be surprised and find the cemetery conspicuously mentioned in the document, in which case you will be able to easily determine that taxes are in fact NOT paid on the cemetery tract. So, proceed with caution and do the research. You will likely be surprised at what you'll find. Lois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine West" <cherokee@shelbynet.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 10:38 PM Subject: [INPCRP] What does the Law Say? > Need your input on a question I was asked recently. We have a new Twp Trustee who sees it as his responsibility to maintain ALL cemeteries without a church or organization in his Twp. > > In 1994, a resident of this twp was charged with several counts of animal cruelty for keeping starving horses in a mud lot in the dead of the winter with no food until they were near death. Luckily, the DNR stepped in and an officer went to the pasture to video tape evidence of the case and stood on a little knoll in order to gain the best shot for his video. Later, when asking neighbors about the situation, one informed him the knoll he stood on was a pioneer cemetery. He went back in March of that year and found a few fragments of stones in amongst the manure. He was stunned and talked to a reporter at the paper who published 3 or 4 articles about it. > > The officer took his research to the state house and testified before the legislature for Rep. Lytle. He is one of the reasons we have these new laws to help protect such pioneer cemeteries as this one. > > When I was asked by the new trustee if I knew what he was suppose to do with this cemetery, which is on private ground (same owner) and barely anything left of it, I told him if he insisted on maintaining it and restoring it, the owner would probably charge him with trespassing or at least involve the sheriff a few times. > > I called the officer who is now out of the field and in an office in Indy, since this was the same cemetery he tried to save. He said he thought that back in 1994 when they first discovered the cemetery in that sad of a shape, the law read that the trustee was still responsible for it, private ground or not. The law was revised in 1997 and now says that trustees aren't responsible it if taxes are being paid by the landowner on it. He hasn't seen the new laws and asked that I call him back in a few weeks when he has had a chance to read them and figure out what it means. > > I thought I'd ask the group what their interpretation of the situation is. I need all the help I can get, a trustee as devoted as this one doesn't come along very often. A pioneer cemetery with a rich history is at stake as well. > > Thanks. > > > Cris West > Columbus, IN

@home is apparently playing games with my e-mail again, and my e-mail delivery is running a bit behind. However, I just got the INPCRP Digest for this afternoon and picked up on today's debate. Ladies and gentlemen, I ask all of you to please remember that we are ALL entitled to our respective opinions in this and any other subject. But don't forget that we have much more in COMMON here than what might divide us. Let's keep any debates on "friendly" terms, respecting each others' positions. I may not agree with every one of you on every subject, but I will defend to the death your right to express YOUR positions, so long as it does not get PERSONAL. Lois

In a message dated 9/28/01 3:37:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rfrevert@megsinet.net writes: > ("weeds" are nonnative, introduced species that crowd out native plants) I never get angry when I know my cause is Just. Every grownup cemetery is in that situation from lack of the Township Trustee doing his Job. Just as St. Johns was not cared for and the DNR saw an opportunity to step in. They only have an Oral agreement from the Previous Trustee. The Present Morgan Township Trustee wants it back !!! How can the Law require it to be cleaned, and the same State Entity responsible declare it a Grownup Memorial. (Double Standards) How many years constitutes the naming a Plant, a "Native Plant" 100 years 1,000, 5,000, a Million, at what point do they become "native" and who introduced them other than the fact they evolved from something else. (Sorry, I'm not an Ecologist) Can you tell me how many Species have been Native and became Extinct through natural Evolution. My opinion, they belong in your cemetery, not mine. My goal is to clean cemeteries and preserve them as long as I live. Be it Trees, Bushes Weeds, Flowers, or Grass. I don't have time for frivolity. I'm not afraid to call a Flower a Weed. This ends my discussion of this subject. Jack E. Briles Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585

Need your input on a question I was asked recently. We have a new Twp Trustee who sees it as his responsibility to maintain ALL cemeteries without a church or organization in his Twp. In 1994, a resident of this twp was charged with several counts of animal cruelty for keeping starving horses in a mud lot in the dead of the winter with no food until they were near death. Luckily, the DNR stepped in and an officer went to the pasture to video tape evidence of the case and stood on a little knoll in order to gain the best shot for his video. Later, when asking neighbors about the situation, one informed him the knoll he stood on was a pioneer cemetery. He went back in March of that year and found a few fragments of stones in amongst the manure. He was stunned and talked to a reporter at the paper who published 3 or 4 articles about it. The officer took his research to the state house and testified before the legislature for Rep. Lytle. He is one of the reasons we have these new laws to help protect such pioneer cemeteries as this one. When I was asked by the new trustee if I knew what he was suppose to do with this cemetery, which is on private ground (same owner) and barely anything left of it, I told him if he insisted on maintaining it and restoring it, the owner would probably charge him with trespassing or at least involve the sheriff a few times. I called the officer who is now out of the field and in an office in Indy, since this was the same cemetery he tried to save. He said he thought that back in 1994 when they first discovered the cemetery in that sad of a shape, the law read that the trustee was still responsible for it, private ground or not. The law was revised in 1997 and now says that trustees aren't responsible it if taxes are being paid by the landowner on it. He hasn't seen the new laws and asked that I call him back in a few weeks when he has had a chance to read them and figure out what it means. I thought I'd ask the group what their interpretation of the situation is. I need all the help I can get, a trustee as devoted as this one doesn't come along very often. A pioneer cemetery with a rich history is at stake as well. Thanks. Cris West Columbus, IN

I feel compelled to clarify a few of my thoughts, then I will shut up about this topic- it's taken too much of my time and perhaps others' as well. "My" cemetery and "your" cemetery makes no sense to me. If I have ancestors at Arlington National Cemetery, that does not make it "mine." They are "our" cemeteries and we have to come up with reasonable means of preserving them. Only if I have a cemetery on my privately owned property would I consider it "mine." Our stewardship is not about possession of stones or bones or cemeteries. Obviously many Township cemeteries are in dire need of the maintenance that they are due by law. However, what of the hundreds of family plots on private land that do not fall under these provisions? Township trustees are not responsible for their care, and I would guess that family plots on private land could well outnumber the township controlled cemeteries. A non-native plant is one introduced by (in Indiana) European American settlers and those who came after. Finally, I doubt that many of our ancestors of 100-150 years ago bothered to mow cemeteries, even if such equipment was available. More than likely they let livestock graze or, very possibly, burnt them off in the spring. Burning the fencerows off in April is still a yearly task in many rural areas. Again, I personally believe that divisive or inflammatory comments on this list do little to advance our goals. And that ends my discussion of this topic.

Y'all come on down south some time and let me introduce you to a non native plant that's been around for over 100 years called Kudzu. >Native plants don't destroy cemeteries, people do- whether with bovines, >baseball bats, or bulldozers.