I hope someone will enlighten us to the damage chalk causes. I am an advocate of using chalk to bring out the inscription, esp. when all else fails. It seems to me that if it is the only way to read the stone, at least we have preserved the information contained there when there may be no way to read it in a few years. I have been carrying a spray bottle of plain water with me to rinse the chalk off afterwards. I am, however, willing to listen to the reasons not to use chalk. Debby Beheler __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com

I've taken the INPCRP *OFF* moderated status. Subscribers to the INPCRP may once again post to the group directly. Now, let's follow Bud's suggestion and change the subject for now. THANK YOU. Lois

----- Original Message ----- From: "Andi MacDonald" <andimac@oz.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com>; "WACemeteries" <wa-cemeteries-l@rootsweb.com>; "Grave-L" <Grave-L@yahoogroups.com> Cc: "Robinson, Jeanne" <ohca@integrity.com> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: {not a subscriber} Re: [INPCRP] Video's > Hello all, > > Several months ago I purchased the video Cryptic Clues in the Boneyard by > Sharon Debartolo Carmack just because I know the presenter (I know of her > through the Association of Professional Genealogists, and from taking > several of her conference courses, and I highly respect her). Overall the > video is very informative, however, I was bothered by several items in the > video which are incorrect. One of which is chalk. Chalk is HARMFUL to > stone. Jeanne Robinson of Oregon Historic Cemetery Alliance has a paper > which explains in detail why. Another is the types of cemeteries. The > types she listed are not the same as those previously espoused by cemetery > experts. There were a few other things in the video that bothered me but > I'd have to dig out my notes to be sure of what they are. > > This morning I saw an article on headstone cleaning by a writer who puts out > an e-zine on a variety of genealogical topics. This person is also a member > of Association for Professional Genealogists. When I read what she was > saying, I decided it was time to send an email to our APG-l maillist and > alert my associates there to sound cemetery/headstone conservation > techniques. Members of APG ascribe to sound genealogical standards just as > we cemeterians ascribe to sound conservation methods. I have already > received one response thanking me for specifying the things to NOT say as > well as the things TO say. > > The most valuable thing we can do as cemeterians is to ensure those who > present themselves as experts, truly are. Or, at the very least, we should > point out mistakes and ask that they be corrected (politely of course). > > More and more writers will be presenting articles on cemetery care, let's be > sure that as the information is released, it is correct. > > Andrea D. MacDonald "Andi" > andimac@oz.net > founder/president > Washington State Cemetery Association > http://www.rootsweb.com/~wapsgs/ > co-founder: Cemetery Conservation Alliance > member Association of Professional Genealogists > member Association for Gravestone Studies > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "G Tielking" <tielking@knightstown.net> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:25 PM > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Video's > > > > I recently bought the tape and I enjoyed it. Since I am new at this > > "cemetery thing", I learned alot. > > Angela Tielking > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Spurlock" <wspurlock@savinggraves.com> > > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:14 AM > > Subject: [INPCRP] Video's > > > > > > > Have any of you had the chance to see the "Cryptic Clues In The > Boneyard" > > video put out by Sharon DeBartolo Carmack? It's more focused on the > aspects > > of researching in cemeteries, rather than repair and restoiration efforts > > but it gives a good idea of what can be done in the idea of a possible > video > > series. > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > > > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of > > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version) > > > > > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Beckwith" <BECKWITH@surf-ici.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:36 AM Subject: {not a subscriber} Re: [INPCRP] Thoughts On This Column > Frank, > > Just a few thoughts. > > First and foremost, if anyone wants to learn about cleaning and > restoration of markers should attend a workshop with "Walt" Walters. I'm > sure anyone who has attended has walked away with the deepest respect > for this man, his mission and knowledge. > > Second there was a comment about testing a cleaner on an inconspicuous > location. Any and all chemicals contain solvents which may penetrate the > pores of the stone. Those solvents carry chemicals into the stone which > may reside and continue to react. I think the best policy is to use only > water or nothing at all. Just "elbow grease," only on your own elbow of > course. > > Don > >

Here is something to change the subject....... http://www.thestarpress.com/Local_News/0927oldcemetery.html It is about Center township, Delaware county and the township trustee Mr. Richard Shirey and his work on his cemeteries. Mr. Shirey is a great asset to all of us trying to restore the old pioneer cemeteries. UEB Henry County, IN INPCRP

Regarding recent postings about the Cemetery Barren in Harrison County, IN., I would like to add some thoughts. I have visited the site on a number of occasions recently. It is the most beautiful and awe inspiring natural barrens community I have ever seen. The Division of Nature Preserves has done a wonderful job of maintaining this site. Had they not, it is likely that shrubby overgrowth and trees would have invaded by now. This would have likely resulted in tombstones being significantly damaged by roots, lichens and branches. Instead, their work has resulted in an array of plant color and depth which does not diminish those buried there, but provides a lasting floral arrangement of unmatched character from early spring until late fall. We are returned to the earth as ashes and dust. Would it be that the dust of my mortal body be part of a foundation that supports the yellows of native sunflowers, the pale purple of beebalm and the cool white of rattlesnake master. In turn, the buzz of the bees, the fragrance of evening blossoms and the flutter of butterflies as they dance from bloom to bloom brings life and renewal. Life is celebrated and carried on in a place like this much more than within the monotonous carpet of all too common fescue lawns. Could there be a more lasting tribute to the departed and a more joyful recognition of life than in an area where eternal resting places and diverse plant life coexists? Respectfully, Brian Lowry Scottsburg, IN. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

In a message dated 9/30/01 1:18:38 AM US Eastern Standard Time, loismauk@home.com writes: > Well, I have just shot myself in the foot and I have no one to blame but > myself. > > Lois, I'm sure God up above forgives you and I know the List members do also, To err is Human, to forgive Divine Jack

Well, I have just shot myself in the foot and I have no one to blame but myself. I apologize PROFUSELY for the hasty message I just sent accidentally to the group. I did not intend it to go to the group. I have been dealing with this situation since midnight, it's now 2:14 AM and I carelessly sent what was supposed to be a private message to Jack to the whole group. My personal opinions about other people's motives have NO PLACE on this list. I try really hard NOT to do that and I cannot say how deeply sorry I am for posting that to the group. We have had people on this group since Day One who do not agree with our prime objectives. Some have come right out and said so. They are entitled to their opinions. Others have been on this list for YEARS and have never posted a message. Occasionally, we have new subscribers who sign on and immediately get into an argument. That usually makes me suspicious, but I try to keep my big mouth shut most of the time. I have got to learn just like everyone else to stop, double-check and think before I hit the send button. PLEASE forgive me. It was just stupidity and sleep deprivation. Lois

Jack: I know you and I know what you're thinking. DO NOT leave the list. We don't want you to go. You're right. You were being baited. Frankly, I think all of these troublemakers are plants put on the list by the DNR. Howell Curtis is the only one who has unsubscribed so far, so let's just wait and see what happens when I take the moderation off the list tomorrow. Hell, these may not even be their real names! Just let things calm down a bit and we can get back to business. I didn't get in on it until the end, but you sure had quite a few folks running in there to stand up for you! Lois

As I said in my earlier message, the INPCRP e-mail group has been placed on moderated status. This means that, even though you are still subscribed to the group, your messages won't go through to the group unless I had previously placed you on the "Accept" list. (The Accept list is something I have to use sometimes when people have trouble posting from work or have multiple e-mail accounts, etc.) Everyone who is subscribed will continue to RECEIVE messages posted to the group. Those of you who don't happen to be on the Accept list should not feel slighted. Generally it just means that we haven't had a problem with your e-mail address in the past. But for everyone (on the Accept list or not), let's remember why we are here: We want to help IDENTIFY, PROTECT, RESTORE and PRESERVE Indiana's pioneer cemeteries. If you want to post a message about something other than the bonfire that's been smoldering here on the list for the last couple of days, please do so and I'll forward your message to the group. If things have calmed down tomorrow, I'll remove the moderation status and we can get back to normal. Remember, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions but no one has the right to make inflammatory remarks about other people. I think there is enough tension in the world right now that we don't need to start a flame war here on the list. Lois

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellyn R. Kern" <ekern@venus.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 1:29 AM Subject: {not a subscriber} Re: [INPCRP] Updated tally on Petition signatures > Jack > I put my petitions in the mail today, Saturday, Sept 29th > Ellyn Kern, Switzerland County >

This is an open letter to the List, I stopped my E-mail over St Johns Cemetery in the beginning of a sentence. I felt I was being drawn in. I will leave the List before I would Flame anyone on here, regardless of who they may be, or what they say. If I have offended ANYONE, I apologize, and the matter is closed. Goodnight.!!! Jack E. Briles Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie & Connie" <elasley@sigecom.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:52 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Updated tally on Petition signatures > Jack, > > We collected some in Gibson County last week, the Princeton Library or the > Historical Socirty was going to mail them in. Have you received them yet? > > Ernie > > At 11:42 PM 9/29/01, you wrote: > >In a message dated 9/29/01 7:19:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > >d001b@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > > There are 4 signatures from Cass Co and one > > > from Carroll > > > > Lois said she would like at least 1 from every county so all counties > > would > >be represented > > Keep up the good work. > > > > > >Jack E. Briles Sr. > >(812) 282-6585 > >Fax (812) 282-6585 > > > > > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > >Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite. > >

Members of the INPCRP: I try very hard to stay out of debates such as this as my position as List Manager is to deal with the bounces, people who can't figure out how to unsubscribe themselves or change their e-mail addresses, etc. People, this situation is getting out of hand. I ask all of you to think before you hit the SEND button. Let's consider for a moment why we are here. I feel certain that more than 90% of the members of this group are passionately OPPOSED to turning pioneer cemeteries into prairie grasses specimens. I don't know this for an absolute mortal fact as we have a NUMBER of "lurkers" here, people who monitor this list but never post a message here and people who are employees of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources because they want to know what we are up to next. NO, I'm NOT going to remove Mr. Briles. Jack is the hardest-working human being I've ever known. He is passionate about identifying, protecting and preserving pioneer cemeteries in Indiana and that is 100% on-point as far as the goals and objectives of the INPCRP. Let's review the original "mission statement" of the INPCRP: The Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project was begun by Scott Satterthwaite in October 1997 as an effort to generate public awareness about the neglected pioneer cemeteries of Indiana. The state of Indiana is home to thousands of abandoned or neglected pioneer cemeteries, the oldest of which now approach 200 years. The goal of this project is to IDENTIFY, PROTECT, RESTORE and PRESERVE as many of these cemeteries as possible. This project was founded on the belief that we owe our pioneer ancestors a better monument than a forgotten grave amid bramble and thicket. Jack Briles has done more for cemetery PRESERVATION and RESTORATION than most of the rest of us COMBINED. He is tireless and dedicated to this cause. He has personally (and often-times single-handedly) RESTORED an untold number of cemeteries -- and paid for every expense out of his own pocket despite having a limited income. Yes, Jack is angry about the situation at St. John's Lutheran Church Cemetery. You have not witnessed the things Jack has seen. In my opinion, he has every right to be angry about this situation. There is an EXCELLENT possibility that Jack's first Indiana ancestor is buried in St. John's Cemetery but, guess what? He can't find a stone there. Further, he can't get **IN** the cemetery because of the vegetation. Here's he's got a Township Trustee who wants to clean up the cemetery. The people who live around the cemetery don't like the way it looks. Some of the descendants are upset about the way it looks. And Jack is ANGRY about the situation. This 20-history of allowing this cemetery to "revert" went into motion because the former Township Trustee did not WANT to take care of the cemetery in accordance with his statutory responsibilities. Jack Briles was also responsible for coordinating the clean-up of another Southern Indiana cemetery that was BULLDOZED by the parish priest in the 1960s because it was "too much trouble" to mow around the stones. The priest then allowed that cemetery to revert to what was for all the world a jungle. I cannot imagine another person on the planet who would have worked as hard and spent as much of his own gas and money spending DAYS down there investigating this situation, "making nice" with the township, county and church officials and desperately searching for intentionally smashed remnants of stone. Yes, Jack has the right to express his opinion in this forum, as do any of us. But, in this case, Jack speaks in accord with the majority opinion here. The situation at St. John's goes against everything we're trying to accomplish in our own counties. Mr. Curtis, you subscribed to this list at 1:35 A.M. on Friday, September 28. Mr. Lowry, you joined us at 10:33 PM on Saturday, September 29. Gentlemen, the vast majority of the other 161 members of this group are of the opinion that Indiana pioneer cemeteries are NOT the appropriate forum for the preservation of native plant life to the detriment of the cemeteries themselves or in such a way as to create an obstacle to access to those sites by descendants, historians, family history researchers or interested members of the public. I was a regional officer of a national land preservation organization for more than 3 years. I think I can appreciate as well as anyone the importance of preserving native plant life for which so much affinity has been expressed here in the last couple of days. I can recall several properties owned by that organization on which old cemeteries existed and they were specifically kept clean and accessible. It is my personal opinion that pioneer family cemeteries are NOT the appropriate place for prairie vegetation such as "Cemetery Barrens". Cemeteries are not for the benefit of the dead, any more than funerals are for the benefit of the deceased. A cemetery is a place where one human being can go and feel a connection to persons who passed before them. They are a connection between us and past generations. I do not feel that 5-foot tall grasses that hide the markers and monuments placed there to mark a loved one's final resting place are appropriate in any scenario. I am a Board member of what is quite possibly the OLDEST active cemetery in the State of Indiana. Our first "recorded" burial is from 1805. I am also a Trustee of another still-active cemetery which lists its earliest "recorded" burial as 1820. Yes, I know there are older graves in Indiana, but I'm talking about still ACTIVE cemeteries. I assure you that the mowing of the grass to, among other things, make the cemetery more accessible to the living public is a primary objective of our Associations. Finally, I have set the INPCRP list to "MODERATED" status until things calm down a bit. Lois Mauk INPCRP List Manager P.S.: Mr. Curtis unsubscribed to the INPCRP before I had a chance to send this message.

In a message dated 9/29/01 7:19:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time, d001b@yahoo.com writes: > There are 4 signatures from Cass Co and one > from Carroll Lois said she would like at least 1 from every county so all counties would be represented Keep up the good work. Jack E. Briles Sr. (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585

In a message dated 9/29/01 7:49:32 PM US Eastern Standard Time, billn@tctc.com writes: > Lois, > > My name is Bill Nunnally I have Benton County but I live in Fountain Co. so > it shows for Fountain and not Benton. > Benton Co. is covered but it will not show it. > Bill > > Mr. Nunnally, Maybe I can Help, > The County of residence of the individual signing the petition will get > credit for those signatures. Anyone from Benton that signs and stipulates > Benton as their county of Residence, then Benton will get the Credit. Just > as anyone signing Fountain as their County of Residence means Fountain > County will get the Credit. Signers can be from other States. Their > ancestors are probably buried in Indiana. The Signatures are separated by > Counties and States. I have Signers from 5 different Counties and 4 > different States.. Each County or State get the credit for their Respective > signatures. They will all count. I hope this helps until Lois has a chance > to answer you. Jack E. Briles Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585 Fax (812) 282-6585

Hey Man, who started this? Not me. Jack better get his facts straight before he gets in too deep. Howell Curtis Brian Smead wrote: > WOW, you really like to stir the fire up, don't you? How many on this list > Lois? 160? 170? Maybe you should just remove 95% of us because that's how > many probably agree with Jack. Mr. Curtis, if the DNR ever tryed to make > "MY" cemetery into a natural habitat, I'll be there weekly with a lawn mower > and gallons of weed killer. > End of subject for me. I'm not into tree hugging or weed planting. > Brian E. Smead > Terre Haute, Indiana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Howell Curtis" <hccu@voyager.net> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 9:43 PM > Subject: [INPCRP] Flamed > > > Dear Ms. Mauk, > > > > I was quite surprised that my first post to this forum elicited such a > > response. Apology aside, Mr. Briles' remarks were insulting, if not > > downright abusive. > > He has violated the rules of conduct that members of this forum agreed > > to abide > > by when they signed up and should be removed from the list. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Howell Curtis > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you > have." > > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

Amen!!!! Jack Briles is our Hero! You need something done? Ask Jack Briles! We need more Jack Briles in Indiana who are as dedicated as Jack in saving our pioneer cemeteries. Sorry, Mr. Curtis, as much as I love hiking through the wild flowers and weeds at parks, when I visit a cemetery I expect it to be mowed. My ancestors spent many hours a day hoeing weeds (or wildflowers) from their gardens, fields, yards AND cemeteries. Sorry you feel Flamed and insulted, but Mr. Briles has had to fight a long time for every inch of pioneer cemeteries saved here in Indiana. We admire his dedication and understand his frustrations and, quite frankly, most of us sit back and expect Jack Briles to speak for us. Mr. Curtis, you, too, deserve your viewpoint and I'm sure most of us agree with you that there is a place for prairie grass and wildflowers. But NOT in our cemeteries, please! Pat Bryant, Indianapolis Brian Smead wrote: > > WOW, you really like to stir the fire up, don't you? How many on this list > Lois? 160? 170? Maybe you should just remove 95% of us because that's how > many probably agree with Jack. Mr. Curtis, if the DNR ever tryed to make > "MY" cemetery into a natural habitat, I'll be there weekly with a lawn mower > and gallons of weed killer. > End of subject for me. I'm not into tree hugging or weed planting. > Brian E. Smead > Terre Haute, Indiana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Howell Curtis" <hccu@voyager.net> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 9:43 PM > Subject: [INPCRP] Flamed > > > Dear Ms. Mauk, > > > > I was quite surprised that my first post to this forum elicited such a > > response. Apology aside, Mr. Briles' remarks were insulting, if not > > downright abusive. > > He has violated the rules of conduct that members of this forum agreed > > to abide > > by when they signed up and should be removed from the list. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Howell Curtis > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you > have." > > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

WOW, you really like to stir the fire up, don't you? How many on this list Lois? 160? 170? Maybe you should just remove 95% of us because that's how many probably agree with Jack. Mr. Curtis, if the DNR ever tryed to make "MY" cemetery into a natural habitat, I'll be there weekly with a lawn mower and gallons of weed killer. End of subject for me. I'm not into tree hugging or weed planting. Brian E. Smead Terre Haute, Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howell Curtis" <hccu@voyager.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 9:43 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Flamed > Dear Ms. Mauk, > > I was quite surprised that my first post to this forum elicited such a > response. Apology aside, Mr. Briles' remarks were insulting, if not > downright abusive. > He has violated the rules of conduct that members of this forum agreed > to abide > by when they signed up and should be removed from the list. > > Respectfully, > > Howell Curtis > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > >

Dear Ms. Mauk, I was quite surprised that my first post to this forum elicited such a response. Apology aside, Mr. Briles' remarks were insulting, if not downright abusive. He has violated the rules of conduct that members of this forum agreed to abide by when they signed up and should be removed from the list. Respectfully, Howell Curtis