Okay, got another dilemma that needs some creative input here in Bartholomew County. Nicholas Jones Sr. was a Revolutionary War veteran who later settled near a little RR town here called Nortonburg. Before he died, he conveyed the land to his children and one piece in particular went to his son, Nicholas Jones Jr. The deed (recorded in 1849) does not contain an exception, it conveys to him the ground, basically the NE of the SW of the section. But after the Recorder's declaration, it has the following paragraph, beautifully written in my opinion: "The within deed and conveyance is made to Nicholas Jones junior with the distinct and express understanding that I have reserved a certain lot or piece of ground for the use of the public as a burying ground, 150 ft. deep & 50 ft. wide lying and being immediately on the North line of said conveyed piece of land and known by the name of Jones's grave yard or burying ground, and the same is to be for the use of the public as a burying place and is to be used for no other purpose so long as time may last and all and any who may wish to bury on the same with full ingress and egress to the same for the purpose of a grave yard and it is in nowise to be considered as conveyed to the said Nicholas Jones Jr. or his heirs. Notwithstanding is not reserved in the within Deed but to remain as a public burying ground as long as time lasts." Here is the problem, the son later sold the ground without an exception, and so it was perpetuated. We had a wonderful historian who worked on our cemeteries and this is what she wrote of it in December of 1972: "This cemetery was recorded by (herself), who on her first trip, found only 5 broken stones. When they realized the name was JONES and they were searching for the burial place of Revolutionary War veteran Nicholas Jones, they went back a second time with an iron probe and found and dug up 3 of the stones, but were unable to get the 4th one up and it was laying writing side down. (some local neighbors), went out and finished digging up the stones and a third trip was made to finish the recording. (a relative of a former owner), who lived with his grandparents near this cemetery when a boy, states positively that Nicholas Jones was buried here, he further states that some of (his) family was buried in this cemetery. The last burial he recalls was an infant child of (a neighbor). The stones are now standing up, without a fence around them. Unless a fence is put up or they are buried again, the cattle will probably destroy them." You can barely recognize the small weed patch in the field as a graveyard today. It is near the road, but only visible in the winter, as a "combines-width" exists between it and the road. The township trustee was told by the former historian that the cemetery was suppose to belong to the township, as it was originally intended. When the landowner was approached about it, she refused, stating it was not excepted from her deed and she paid taxes on it. I checked, she has always paid taxes on it. I spoke with her about it yesterday (I DO NOT like controversy nor confrontations so I merely kept the conversation about what SHE knew about the cemetery, not what I knew) and she still maintains it belongs to her. She said that when approached several years ago by the trustee, she was told that they would like to "cut a hole in her fence" and fence on three sides of the graveyard, allowing access directly from the road. She talked to her lawyer, who said they had farmed it lon! g enough that she did not have to do any of it, so she merely removed the cows and all the fence from it and started farming it. I said that I estimated there to be about 15 to 20 graves in this cemetery, and she acknowledged that she knew there were at least that many. Yet they farm around a patch that could not be more than 10 ft. by 10 ft., so she is acknowledging the fact that she is farming over graves. I did not mention to her the new law that says that is illegal, I'll let the Commissioners do that. I plan on gathering my information and having a complete list of questions that need answers from a qualified BOARD to the commissioners in January (I hope) and this is my #1 question for them. I don't want to make enemies doing this, and this lady has actually given me valuable information regarding another lost cemetery on the other side of the county where she grew up. I don't want to pick on her (she works for the county as well), and there are others in bad shape. Am I wrong in thinking that this land needs to be surveyed extensively to locate the actual boundaries of the graveyard, it needs to be fenced in, a flag pole erected in it, and access given from the road to it? Who pays for the survey? Who conducts the search for the actual graves? Does she get a refund for all the taxes she has paid on it since 1962? Cris West Columbus, IN

Jack, The taxes did include several years, but I'm surprised still they were that high. Two county officials have told me they tried for "several years" to get someone from the former congregation to sign exemption. Unfortunately, they missed the person who had nominal charge of the cemetery association. She lives about 10 blocks from the Court House and never got a call. This is not a high priced area, it's very rural and not ground that is useful for anything. The new owner already harvested the trees, and I think he realized the profits from that. But I'm not clear on all my facts here, so I should do some more digging before saying specifically that is what happened. If I mentioned a for-profit group, that was in error. The cemetery association is not for profit. Funds are realized from the sale of lots. That's the money being used for mowing, reportedly. I'm not sure anyone in the county knew that the new owner couldn't realize a profit until after the redemption period. In fact, I didn't know there was a redemption period. Maybe the county didn't either. Sharon At 09:06 AM 11/8/01 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 11/8/01 7:42:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time, >mills@reliable-net.net writes: > > >> Actually, the taxes on this 2.64 areas were over $3,000. That was what the >> new owner paid to buy the property. They may have been figuring in those >> big trees he later sold and a handful of years of back taxes. >> > >Sharon, >If the Taxes were that high they had to have included several years. For the >taxes to run that high the 2.64 acres with a cemetery taking up a goodly >amount of the ground, the property would have to be in a very high priced >area for one year to run that high. The taxes had to be delinquent for a Tax >sale. The previous owner under Indiana Law has a grace period to reclaim the >property, by paying up the purchase amount with interest. > Technically I don't think the Trees can be stripped until that time >has expired. If so and somehow some group, or person could redeem the land, >the sale price of the trees would apply to the payment. If the tree sale >brought $3,000 dollars the only thing owed would be the Interest, and I'm not >sure about that because the property, minus the trees is not now worth what >it was at the time of the Tax sale. Also you can't buy property at a tax >sale and build a $150,000 house on it and expect the person redeeming the >property to come up with that amount, plus the sale amount. You may not >profit from a tax sale until the redemption time has expired. Sharon, you >mention a for profit group, do you mean someone who sells cemetery lots to >make a profit for themselves, or for money to apply to a long term >maintenance fund. Anyone have any better information? >Jack E. Briles, Sr. >Floyd County PCRP Coordinator >PO Box 444 >New Albany, In. 47151-0444 >(812) 282-6585 > > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer >Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > >

Ernie, In the situation I'm researching, the Methodists were the owners of their smaller congregation's property. The church and part of the cemetery were in one lot. The Methodist conference then sold the property for $1.00 to the congregation, which became a separate entity c 1965. This is the land that was sold for taxes in 1999, when the county couldn't find someone to fill out the tax exemption papers. Two additional parts of the cemetery had been deeded by other sellers. The first addition was deeded to the church trustees, who in turn handed it to a duly constituted and authorized (by Co commissioners) Cemetery Association. The second addition was deeded to the Cemetery Association. About 75 years ago the trustees of the church turned over the whole thing to the cemetery association to oversee, sell lots, etc. But they didn't deed over to the Association the actual title of the original part of the cemetery. Even if the county CAN'T sell the cemetery, I'm pretty sure it's included in the acreage specified on the deed. The Aliquot description is extremely vague, but the acreage is quite specific. The language that describes the measuring off is the same language that exists on the deed in which the original owner sold the land to the congregation in 1849 "for consideration of construction of a meeting house." I haven't met with the county attorney yet. I'm not sure there is a township attorney. I'm sure they'll be happy to see me. I also imagine they won't want to consider the sale "null and void", even if they should it. There's nothing in it for the county. Sharon Mills At 05:42 PM 11/7/01 -0600, you wrote: >Sharon & others, > >True, when the church ceases to exist as an organization, then the church >and property can become taxable. But NOT the cemetery! This will take >lawyers far smarter than me to sort it out, but one of two things likely >should have happened, depending on the circumstances. > >Some congregations belong to larger associations. I have had experience >relating to cemeteries with only two, a General Baptist Church and a >Methodist Church. In the case of the General baptist church, they belonged >to a larger General Baptist Association, but the local church actually owns >the property. When they ended up with too few members to keep the church >active, they sold the building and property. A cemetery CANNOT be sold >unless you abide by the rules in IC 23-14, chapter 52, "Conditions Applying >to the Sale of a Cemetery". Chapter 62 also may apply, Conveyance to >Private Corporations, or chapter 64, Conveyance to Townships. However, if >the church ceased to be a viable organization and was without funds to care >for the cemetery, then chapter 68 applies, and the Township Trustee becomes >the owner!! The Trustee can also claim any assets that organization has. > >In the case of the Methodist church, they belonged to a larger Association, >and when the local church dis-banded all properties became properties of >the larger Association. They would be responsible for paying taxes if it >is no longer being used as a church, or disposing of the property. The >same laws apply here as above concerning the sale of the cemetery, except >that the larger Association is still a viable organization, and CANNOT just >turn the cemetery over to the Township Trustee! They must maintain it ot >sell it by the rules in IC 23-14. They can separate the church and land >from the cemetery ground and sell the church as they see fit, and either >keep and maintain the cemetery or sell it under the IC 23-14 rules. > >I think in your case, the Township Attorney and the County Attorney need to >get together to determine what laws applied in this case. If the church >dis-banded and had no funds, the Township Trustee becomes the "owner". If >there was a larger Association that "received ownership" when the local >group ceased to exist, then they are responsible for taxes on the building >(if it is no longer being used as a church, it is taxable), and responsible >for maintaining the cemetery or selling it under chapters 52, 62, or 64. > >In any case, the County CANNOT SELL the cemetery! At least this is the way >I am reading it. Sorry for the long answer, I hope this sheds some light >on it. The lawyers need to do some researching here, they may have to >declare the sale null and void and proceed in a different direction to >abide by the rules set out in 23-14. > >Ernie > >At 02:08 PM 11/7/01, you wrote: >>I met with a regretful county official today who says that is exactly what >>happened. The cemetery was part of a church property. When the >>denomination legally dropped the former congregation, the building and >>grounds became taxable in the eyes of the county. The church building was >>the smaller portion of the property. I was told the county officials >>"hated to do it" but they "had no choice." >> >>I think they might have taken the action to except the cemetery out, but >>they did not. >> >>I learned today that the new owner wanted to log some mature trees on the >>back of the property. These trees were not in the old cemetery, and their >>sale probably paid for his investment in the property (back taxes.) His >>logging, bull-dozing, razing, and home building, happened before July 2000. >> >>I'm not sure what my next course of action is. The county is aware that >>the owner may now not build within 100 feet of the cemetery. Given that >>his property is about 264 feet square, the majority of which is cemetery, >>he probably can't even put up a garage. >> >>I'm wondering if he can put in a garden. (: >> >>Sharon Mills >> >> >> >> >> >>==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >>If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living? > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > > >

Where do you go to college and who is your teacher? I did my speech on this very same topic back in June. I ended up getting good marks. I used pictures from various websites (and gave credit of course) on over heads as well as telling about state law. My speech was more along the lines of, "There needs to be more done" maybe not laws, but at least certain counties doing what they are supposed to do. What's funny is my teacher was the daughter of one of my counties (Hancock) county council members. This was a hugh topic back then. I got a decent grade overall and she really liked my story. Not sure if she shared it with her dad or not. I must say, I never brought up problems with that county. Just showed pictures of broken and vandalized stones. ryan On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Tim and Sabrina wrote: > Hello all, > > First off let me start off by saying, that my husband and I are quite active in documenting and transcribing information from the cemeteries in our area, and if the need is there, performing simple repairs to stones. I am also a college student and I am going to use my speech class as a way to educate people of the need to help with preserving our pioneer cemeteries. However, I need some help. If any of you out there can help me or tell me where I can find the answers, I would appreciate it. > Is there any way I can find out just how many cemeteries have been moved, disturbed , or even destroyed, in say, the past 10 years or so. I would really like to have some numbers to convey to my fellow students the great need there is to help preserve these cemeteries. > Thanks for any help you can give me! > Sabrina > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > >

Hello all, First off let me start off by saying, that my husband and I are quite active in documenting and transcribing information from the cemeteries in our area, and if the need is there, performing simple repairs to stones. I am also a college student and I am going to use my speech class as a way to educate people of the need to help with preserving our pioneer cemeteries. However, I need some help. If any of you out there can help me or tell me where I can find the answers, I would appreciate it. Is there any way I can find out just how many cemeteries have been moved, disturbed , or even destroyed, in say, the past 10 years or so. I would really like to have some numbers to convey to my fellow students the great need there is to help preserve these cemeteries. Thanks for any help you can give me! Sabrina

Yeah, The virus was here too. My firewall kept popping up and I thought to myself... my goodness there are a lot of hackers on this system lately. Glad it is under control now. A good virus protector is money well spent.

To all my friends on this list, I'm very sorry! The virus hit me while on line and propagated out before I could stop it. I spent two hours running and re-running my anti-virus software, an off line product, and I believe my puter is clean now. Please forgive me. The virus is a very savvy !#$%#@^, and spread all over my system including my home net. Would sure like to get my hands on the person that started it. I know where it came from but that person is a victim just like me. Art Dillman

Matt Brooks,executive director of the Association of Indiana Counties stated in an interview with Bill Shaw,reporter for The Indianapolis Star, "That's very unusual. There is no other county in the state that pays someone to resurrect old cemeteries" It seems to me we need 91 more. I tip my hat to all of the hard working volunteers you are all worth your weight in gold! I have a great passion for the work I do and believe me it is not all about the paycheck,although it does help. U.E.B. when you said that people see you and Kyle working they assume you work for the County well here when they see a County employee they assume that he is not working! lol Walt

My reply to, <She said Madison and Henry Co's. had full-time employees who did this.> If I am a full time employee of Henry County, no one has ever told me where to pick up my pay check. At times I feel like a full time employee, but it is all volunteer work. With the help of the Henry County Sheriff's Department community service workers and other volunteers such as Kyle, someone sees us working and they believe we are county employees. If they only knew..... As of Wednesday, November 7, 2001 we do have a full time Cemetery Commission up and running. largely because of Angela's help in getting this started. Thanks Angela, U. E. Bush Henry County, IN INPCRP ----- Original Message ----- From: "G Tielking" <tielking@knightstown.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:39 PM Subject: [INPCRP] question > Hello all, > > I attended the first meeting of the Hancock Co. Cemetery commission board this evening. It was to get to know everyone kind of meeting. The next meeting will be Nov. 26 to elect officers. Here is my question. There was a lady there by the name of Martha Gathers who has served on the Madison Co. cemetery commission. When I was speaking about how wonderful Fayette Co. was and that they were the only county in the state of Indiana who had a full-time cemetery supervisor (Walt) EMPLOYED by the county to find and restore the pioneer cemeteries, she said this was untrue. She said Madison and Henry Co's. had full-time employees who did this. Am I wrong? I just want the correct information. > Thanks, > Angela Tielking > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Please do not send queries through this list. > > >

In a message dated 11/8/01 7:42:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time, mills@reliable-net.net writes: > Actually, the taxes on this 2.64 areas were over $3,000. That was what the > new owner paid to buy the property. They may have been figuring in those > big trees he later sold and a handful of years of back taxes. > Sharon, If the Taxes were that high they had to have included several years. For the taxes to run that high the 2.64 acres with a cemetery taking up a goodly amount of the ground, the property would have to be in a very high priced area for one year to run that high. The taxes had to be delinquent for a Tax sale. The previous owner under Indiana Law has a grace period to reclaim the property, by paying up the purchase amount with interest. Technically I don't think the Trees can be stripped until that time has expired. If so and somehow some group, or person could redeem the land, the sale price of the trees would apply to the payment. If the tree sale brought $3,000 dollars the only thing owed would be the Interest, and I'm not sure about that because the property, minus the trees is not now worth what it was at the time of the Tax sale. Also you can't buy property at a tax sale and build a $150,000 house on it and expect the person redeeming the property to come up with that amount, plus the sale amount. You may not profit from a tax sale until the redemption time has expired. Sharon, you mention a for profit group, do you mean someone who sells cemetery lots to make a profit for themselves, or for money to apply to a long term maintenance fund. Anyone have any better information? Jack E. Briles, Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator PO Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585

If Henry County has such an employee, based on the cemeteries I've seen in parts of the county, this person must sit behind a desk in some remote corner of the courthouse. And I've been in most of the remote corners of the courthouse and not run in to such a being. Kyle

Actually, the taxes on this 2.64 areas were over $3,000. That was what the new owner paid to buy the property. They may have been figuring in those big trees he later sold and a handful of years of back taxes. And I'm sure the new owner doesn't want to be bothered by people wanting to visit. Access is possible through the newer parts of the cemetery without bothering this man, however. Sharon At 10:50 PM 11/7/01 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 11/7/01 8:15:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time, >andimac@oz.net writes: > > >> They say they would rather pay taxes and keep the cemetery hidden from >> the public (desecration, etc.). >> >> > >The Taxes are not that much, and they just don't want to be bothered by >people wanting to visit. I have been told that in Floyd and Harrison Counties >Jack E. Briles, Sr. >Floyd County PCRP Coordinator >PO Box 444 >New Albany, In. 47151-0444 >(812) 282-6585 > > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >"Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > >

Dear Angela: While I'm sure there are other counties that have EMPLOYEES who care for their cemeteries, I believe Walt may be the only FULL-TIME COUNTY EMPLOYEE whose FULL-TIME JOB it is to maintain and restore its pioneer cemeteries. Therein, I suspect, likes the distinction. Lois ----- Original Message ----- From: "G Tielking" <tielking@knightstown.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:39 PM Subject: [INPCRP] question > Hello all, > > I attended the first meeting of the Hancock Co. Cemetery commission board this evening. It was to get to know everyone kind of meeting. The next meeting will be Nov. 26 to elect officers. Here is my question. There was a lady there by the name of Martha Gathers who has served on the Madison Co. cemetery commission. When I was speaking about how wonderful Fayette Co. was and that they were the only county in the state of Indiana who had a full-time cemetery supervisor (Walt) EMPLOYED by the county to find and restore the pioneer cemeteries, she said this was untrue. She said Madison and Henry Co's. had full-time employees who did this. Am I wrong? I just want the correct information. > Thanks, > Angela Tielking >

Hello all, I attended the first meeting of the Hancock Co. Cemetery commission board this evening. It was to get to know everyone kind of meeting. The next meeting will be Nov. 26 to elect officers. Here is my question. There was a lady there by the name of Martha Gathers who has served on the Madison Co. cemetery commission. When I was speaking about how wonderful Fayette Co. was and that they were the only county in the state of Indiana who had a full-time cemetery supervisor (Walt) EMPLOYED by the county to find and restore the pioneer cemeteries, she said this was untrue. She said Madison and Henry Co's. had full-time employees who did this. Am I wrong? I just want the correct information. Thanks, Angela Tielking

In a message dated 11/7/01 8:15:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time, andimac@oz.net writes: > They say they would rather pay taxes and keep the cemetery hidden from > the public (desecration, etc.). > > The Taxes are not that much, and they just don't want to be bothered by people wanting to visit. I have been told that in Floyd and Harrison Counties Jack E. Briles, Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator PO Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585

In a message dated 11/7/01 3:24:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time, graveyardgroomer@skyenet.net writes: > As much as we would like to resurrect every broken stone, we must face the > fact that some are just to far gone. > Do the best you can with what you got. > Walt > Walt, I hated to even respond to LA about the problem with the stone. I do not believe she will want to attempt what I suggested. I tried to explaining in simple terms like a recipe so it could be followed. There are other things that can be done with the pieces she has. But what I did suggest was what I would do. But in recommending what I did, I know most people can't do it that way. As you say, we have talked about a lot of different repairs that even after you show them and they go home and try it, it "AIN'T" going to work like it does for you. That is just one of our human frailties. But for me to set back and outright ignore a problem like she has and not give the best response I possibly could, would go against every ounce of preservation in my blood. If you or others have a different solution, Please let her know. I also have devoted the rest of my life, to whatever extent I can, to preserve our Past History by trying to preserve our cemeteries, or their remains. They are a window we can look thru into the past, because if you go to any "Pioneer" cemetery and read the Birth and Death Dates, whether Male, Female, Child, or adult, you can see the sacrifices they made to clear the land we now occupy. I applaud LA for trying to save even a shred of a stone that most people would have thrown away as useless. No matter what she decides to do, I'm sure it will be the right thing. It certainly will be with me. Some of our public officials should be so concerned. Good Luck, LA, no matter what you do. Our Goal is to Preserve! Jack E. Briles, Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator PO Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585

Sharon & others, True, when the church ceases to exist as an organization, then the church and property can become taxable. But NOT the cemetery! This will take lawyers far smarter than me to sort it out, but one of two things likely should have happened, depending on the circumstances. Some congregations belong to larger associations. I have had experience relating to cemeteries with only two, a General Baptist Church and a Methodist Church. In the case of the General baptist church, they belonged to a larger General Baptist Association, but the local church actually owns the property. When they ended up with too few members to keep the church active, they sold the building and property. A cemetery CANNOT be sold unless you abide by the rules in IC 23-14, chapter 52, "Conditions Applying to the Sale of a Cemetery". Chapter 62 also may apply, Conveyance to Private Corporations, or chapter 64, Conveyance to Townships. However, if the church ceased to be a viable organization and was without funds to care for the cemetery, then chapter 68 applies, and the Township Trustee becomes the owner!! The Trustee can also claim any assets that organization has. In the case of the Methodist church, they belonged to a larger Association, and when the local church dis-banded all properties became properties of the larger Association. They would be responsible for paying taxes if it is no longer being used as a church, or disposing of the property. The same laws apply here as above concerning the sale of the cemetery, except that the larger Association is still a viable organization, and CANNOT just turn the cemetery over to the Township Trustee! They must maintain it ot sell it by the rules in IC 23-14. They can separate the church and land from the cemetery ground and sell the church as they see fit, and either keep and maintain the cemetery or sell it under the IC 23-14 rules. I think in your case, the Township Attorney and the County Attorney need to get together to determine what laws applied in this case. If the church dis-banded and had no funds, the Township Trustee becomes the "owner". If there was a larger Association that "received ownership" when the local group ceased to exist, then they are responsible for taxes on the building (if it is no longer being used as a church, it is taxable), and responsible for maintaining the cemetery or selling it under chapters 52, 62, or 64. In any case, the County CANNOT SELL the cemetery! At least this is the way I am reading it. Sorry for the long answer, I hope this sheds some light on it. The lawyers need to do some researching here, they may have to declare the sale null and void and proceed in a different direction to abide by the rules set out in 23-14. Ernie At 02:08 PM 11/7/01, you wrote: >I met with a regretful county official today who says that is exactly what >happened. The cemetery was part of a church property. When the >denomination legally dropped the former congregation, the building and >grounds became taxable in the eyes of the county. The church building was >the smaller portion of the property. I was told the county officials >"hated to do it" but they "had no choice." > >I think they might have taken the action to except the cemetery out, but >they did not. > >I learned today that the new owner wanted to log some mature trees on the >back of the property. These trees were not in the old cemetery, and their >sale probably paid for his investment in the property (back taxes.) His >logging, bull-dozing, razing, and home building, happened before July 2000. > >I'm not sure what my next course of action is. The county is aware that >the owner may now not build within 100 feet of the cemetery. Given that >his property is about 264 feet square, the majority of which is cemetery, >he probably can't even put up a garage. > >I'm wondering if he can put in a garden. (: > >Sharon Mills > > > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living?

Hello all, I'm not sure about Indiana, but here's how a defunct church's cemetery is handled here. When the church closes and the property no longer under church sanction, the cemetery reverts to a tax status UNTIL it is dedicated by deed as a cemetery. Until it is legally a cemetery (here the code is 62400), it is taxed as a regular parcel of property. Just because there are burials, doesn't mean it is a cemetery. We have many old cemeteries here that are on private property and the entire property is taxed. The only way for the actual cemetery to avoid being taxed is to set aside by deed that portion of the property. Several senior citizens have been approached to do this with their small private family cemeteries, and they choose to not do it. They say they would rather pay taxes and keep the cemetery hidden from the public (desecration, etc.). Andi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie & Connie" <elasley@sigecom.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] going after a cemetery for taxes > Sharon & others, > > True, when the church ceases to exist as an organization, then the church > and property can become taxable. But NOT the cemetery! This will take > lawyers far smarter than me to sort it out, but one of two things likely > should have happened, depending on the circumstances. > > Some congregations belong to larger associations. I have had experience > relating to cemeteries with only two, a General Baptist Church and a > Methodist Church. In the case of the General baptist church, they belonged > to a larger General Baptist Association, but the local church actually owns > the property. When they ended up with too few members to keep the church > active, they sold the building and property. A cemetery CANNOT be sold > unless you abide by the rules in IC 23-14, chapter 52, "Conditions Applying > to the Sale of a Cemetery". Chapter 62 also may apply, Conveyance to > Private Corporations, or chapter 64, Conveyance to Townships. However, if > the church ceased to be a viable organization and was without funds to care > for the cemetery, then chapter 68 applies, and the Township Trustee becomes > the owner!! The Trustee can also claim any assets that organization has. > > In the case of the Methodist church, they belonged to a larger Association, > and when the local church dis-banded all properties became properties of > the larger Association. They would be responsible for paying taxes if it > is no longer being used as a church, or disposing of the property. The > same laws apply here as above concerning the sale of the cemetery, except > that the larger Association is still a viable organization, and CANNOT just > turn the cemetery over to the Township Trustee! They must maintain it ot > sell it by the rules in IC 23-14. They can separate the church and land > from the cemetery ground and sell the church as they see fit, and either > keep and maintain the cemetery or sell it under the IC 23-14 rules. > > I think in your case, the Township Attorney and the County Attorney need to > get together to determine what laws applied in this case. If the church > dis-banded and had no funds, the Township Trustee becomes the "owner". If > there was a larger Association that "received ownership" when the local > group ceased to exist, then they are responsible for taxes on the building > (if it is no longer being used as a church, it is taxable), and responsible > for maintaining the cemetery or selling it under chapters 52, 62, or 64. > > In any case, the County CANNOT SELL the cemetery! At least this is the way > I am reading it. Sorry for the long answer, I hope this sheds some light > on it. The lawyers need to do some researching here, they may have to > declare the sale null and void and proceed in a different direction to > abide by the rules set out in 23-14. > > Ernie > > At 02:08 PM 11/7/01, you wrote: > >I met with a regretful county official today who says that is exactly what > >happened. The cemetery was part of a church property. When the > >denomination legally dropped the former congregation, the building and > >grounds became taxable in the eyes of the county. The church building was > >the smaller portion of the property. I was told the county officials > >"hated to do it" but they "had no choice." > > > >I think they might have taken the action to except the cemetery out, but > >they did not. > > > >I learned today that the new owner wanted to log some mature trees on the > >back of the property. These trees were not in the old cemetery, and their > >sale probably paid for his investment in the property (back taxes.) His > >logging, bull-dozing, razing, and home building, happened before July 2000. > > > >I'm not sure what my next course of action is. The county is aware that > >the owner may now not build within 100 feet of the cemetery. Given that > >his property is about 264 feet square, the majority of which is cemetery, > >he probably can't even put up a garage. > > > >I'm wondering if he can put in a garden. (: > > > >Sharon Mills > > > > > > > > > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > >If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living? > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > >

Angela, Sorry not to answer you until now,Micki and I have been in Kentucky working on two small cemeteries there.We fixed 18 tombstones.To answer your question ,you could contact any of the board members with questions I will have Micki send you their phone numbers.I am not sure about the open house I am leaning towards a full day workshop in the city cemetery here, A wide variety of repairs could be demonstrated there. I will try to keep you posted. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: G Tielking <tielking@knightstown.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:05 PM Subject: [INPCRP] For Walt > Walt, > > Hancock Co.'s first cemetery commission board meeting will be Nov. 7. Could they contact the Fayette Co. cemetery commission board if they have any questions? Do they contact Ed? I am to "address" the board that evening and I am going to mention how wonderful Fayette Co. is in cemetery restoration and to see how they would feel about being the second county in the state to do what Fayette Co. is doing (smile). > Angela > p.s. Is Fayette Co. planning another open house in the spring? > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living? > > >

Excellent suggestion Jack , and on that note I would say to L.A. what you yourself said to me once when Freddie and I was working on what seemed like an impossible fix." You can't make a silk purse from a cows ear" As much as we would like to resurrect every broken stone, we must face the fact that some are just to far gone. Do the best you can with what you got. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jb502000@aol.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Preservation on bits and pieces > In a message dated 11/6/01 11:22:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time, > clugh_la@email.msn.com writes: > > > > Please advise as to how you would handle this stone. It is a new one for > > me. The pieces are only > > about 1 inch think. Probably sandstone. > > > > L. A. Clugh > > Tippecanoe Co. > > > > LA, > You wont follow this, but it is the way I would do it. > If you feel there is absolutely no way anymore will be found (After > Probing a large > > area in all directions) It Might be OK to do that. But it should be poured > > in a Frame with a bottom. If it is Tan Sandstone, then I would do the > > following if you really want to save the information. If the stone is about > > 1 inch thick, then Figure out the total depth you want to make it (No need > > to make the Box deeper, or larger than necessary) but big enough to have > > about 1 inch along edge of stone, then mix some good Fast setting concrete > > mix, Or regular premix concrete with extra Portland cement added to make it > > stronger, add a little Tan Mortar Color to sort of match the stone color > > (It will be darker while wet) but don't use to much, just make the cement > > just a little Tan in color. The box should be about 2 1/2 inches deep. Mix > > cement until it looks wet enough that the stone can be placed in it without > > settling into the cement (Also you don't want to get it to dry so it wont > > hold the stone) pour cement in the Box, level it off then remove what ever > > you think the stone will displace. If to much take some out, if to little, > > add some. If you use a wheelbarrow keep cement mixed while using it. > Use a Trowel very carefully and remove excess cement, and smooth out. > > minimum of 7 days, then remove from box. If you can, leave about 5 > > inches of cement below stone pieces at bottom and set directly in the > > ground like a Civil war Vets stone is set. This sounds like a lot of work, > > it really isn't. As Ernie said earlier, a Stone is better if it is > > vertical. Also anytime you pour cement, use liquid soap to coat the form > > Lightly, this makes the cement release. Around here there are a Lot of old > > concrete Markers. And they used the old Type cement. If you were closer I > > would do it for you. OK, You Asked, I answered! NEXT, > > > > > Jack E. Briles, Sr. > Floyd County PCRP Coordinator > PO Box 444 > New Albany, In. 47151-0444 > (812) 282-6585 > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite. > > >