On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 Jb502000@aol.com wrote: > on Notice.The Purchasers have that right. If you don't want to be charged > with a Felony and get all of the Goodies that goes along with the Charge, > then DON'T Break the law carrying the Charge. This Gentleman may feel like he Thanks for the info. I understand this guy broke the law, but there are MANY laws out there that are totally BS. I am not sure if you have ever worked in policing, but I am getting out of it because the state is making TOO many laws and the cop attitude that is coming about scares the hell out of me. Many military types who view citizens as something different. I recently heard that if your riding your 4 wheeler on the street not only can you get a ticket, they suspend your drivers license. Give me a break. It's one thing to get a fine, but another to take away someone's ability to live. If they can't drive to work, then they get fired. Do we really want everyone doing time and/or not driving for something that minor? Does it even matter if this guys family loses everything? Are you for the welfare state? All I see is more and more felony this, felony that. Sickening. What I don't like is the felony part, I agree that he should be charged with crimes...but misdomeanors are plenty. A $2,000+ fine WOULD wake people up. But it wouldn't ruin their life and cause kids to view cops and the government as 'bad' people. We are seeing right now what those who view government as 'bad' do. They blow up buildings and riot in the street. The 'coming down' on crimes where this is NO LIVING or apparent victim is getting out of control. But that's ok, keep it coming. Maybe New Albany will have their own 38th Street riot like Indy did years ago.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Sue Silver wrote: > We are a nation under the rule of law. If we do not enforce the laws, then > we will be a nation under the rule of anarchy. If the laws are bad, work to > change them. No can do. I don't have the millions, even billions that some companies do to pay off law makers. They constantly pass unconstitutional laws like the Constitution doesn't even exist. The whole thing is a mess. I have heard anti-gun folk brag about getting minor crimes turned into felonies just so more people can't own guns. Also, incase you have not paid attention, anarchy is already here. People seem to think to have anarchy, the whole nation has to be rioting. Wrong. There were riots in LA, the bombing of a government building in OK City, riots in Cinnci. I was in touch with two people who lived in Cinnci. Oh, and lets not forget Seattle when the anti-WTO protesters left the city trashed.
Well, RVKeller, I guess I am insane about sacred things. I guess I am this way because if I do what I can so my children respect things as sacred I feel that another generation has been prepared to take over should I ever grow tired. If it was my Great Great Great Grandfathers grave I'd want to hunt the "evil doer" down like a dog. But I do not want anyone to go to jail and I have not read the article yet to understand if the monument was removed on purpose or accidently. I will fix a cup of coffee and go read the articles now. Have a great day! NTFCannon@Aol.Com (Tom Cannon)
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, William Spurlock wrote: > You have no idea how serious this problem is. It's not just a gravestone, > it's our history that we are loosing to people like this. History that can > not be replaced. > > I think that this person should be used as an example to all. Let him spend > some time in jail. If he does not spent time in jail, then THAT would be a > slap in the face of the justice system. I hope the jury can see through the bs felony charge. There is no way this guy will do anytime at all, we need the space for the dopers and junkies. To set an example would be to nail his ass with a monetary fine. Destroying his job and life and letting his kids go on welfare would not do ANY good except make a few more govenrment hating people. Even though I don't know anything about this guy, destroying someone's life for this is madness. Making him pay a $2,000 fine would show ANYONE. To get him fired from his job maybe cost him everything. I guess you wouldn't care to support him with welfare, low income housing, and then his off and on jail time when he turns to drugs because that's the ONLY thing that would give him happyness. Just "doing time" doesn't mean "doning time". It means losing your house, kids, family, etc. But hey, maybe to support his drug habit he'll break into our homes to steal stuff!!!
In a message dated 12/28/01 8:40:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rvkeller@iupui.edu writes: > I have some questions for the group: 1: Is one legally bound to let a > prospective buyer of a property know that a cemetary is located on their > land? First a Correction ; (Cemetery) The Law requires that when a piece of Property is Sold a Notice must be Printed in Bold Type across the Front of the Deed at the bottom of the first page stating "There is a Known Burial site or Graveyard located on this Property" It then becomes the responsibility of the Purchaser to either Obey, or Disobey the Laws concerning Cemeteries. This shows he has been put on Notice.The Purchasers have that right. If you don't want to be charged with a Felony and get all of the Goodies that goes along with the Charge, then DON'T Break the law carrying the Charge. This Gentleman may feel like he is being made an Example for others, If this is the case, so be it. You must have a First in anything. To bad he was so Ignorant and uncaring that he should be made an example of. We can't break Laws that common sense tells us is wrong, and then plead Ignorance to get out of what we knew, at least in our hearts was wrong. If he gets off, so be it. If not maybe others will heed the Laws that he chose to break. This is a fine example to see if the Law has any meaning, or is a waste of time. Also if this Graveyard notice is not on the Deed, then the Responsibility for Expenses incurred for the Cemetery becomes the Responsibility of the Seller who failed to note the presence of the Graveyard even if it has been dropped from HIS DEED. He is presumed to know of it's presence on his property. If anyone feels I am wrong, please, don't hesitate to tell me. I feel that all opinions on this Subject are important, and I welcome them. Open discussion is a way for us to resolve any failures in our Cemetery Laws. Jack E. Briles, Sr. jb502000@aol.com Floyd County INPCRP Coordinator PO Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585
You have no idea how serious this problem is. It's not just a gravestone, it's our history that we are loosing to people like this. History that can not be replaced. I think that this person should be used as an example to all. Let him spend some time in jail. If he does not spent time in jail, then THAT would be a slap in the face of the justice system. William Spurlock Saving Graves http://www.savinggraves.com -----Original Message----- From: rvkeller@iupui.edu [mailto:rvkeller@iupui.edu] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:54 AM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Good New & Bad News If this guy does one day in jail it's a slap in the face of the justice system already. I hope he has a good lawyer, there is no reason this man should lose his right to vote, own a firearm, and possibly not get future jobs due to this. Hell, I can go out and get plastered drunk and in order for me to get a felony I would have to injury or kill someone. Welcome to the American criminal justice system. On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 Jb502000@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/27/01 10:04:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > Kadyfoster@aol.com writes: > > > > Good News: A man has been charged with disturbing a cemetery without a > > permit, a class D felon, cemetery mischief, a class A misdemeanor, and > > moving > > a grave memorial without recording, a class C misdemeanor. Officers Jeff > > Atwood and Buck Stogsdill of the DNR investigated. > > > > Let us watch and hope. > > > > David W Foster > > Monroe County > > > > > > > > Thanks for the Report David, > Now lets see if the DNR will follow through and see that the individual is > thoroughly prosecuted by Local officials, or gets his hand slapped and told > not to be a Bad Boy again. Either the Law will work or fall flat on it's > face. It depends on this case. If this one drifts by, then the Legislature > has wasted it's time. We'll see. > > Jack E. Briles, Sr. > Floyd County PCRP Coordinator > PO Box 444 > New Albany, In. 47151-0444 > (812) 282-6585 > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: "Show me the manner in which a nation or community cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender mercies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty to high ideals."
If this guy does one day in jail it's a slap in the face of the justice system already. I hope he has a good lawyer, there is no reason this man should lose his right to vote, own a firearm, and possibly not get future jobs due to this. Hell, I can go out and get plastered drunk and in order for me to get a felony I would have to injury or kill someone. Welcome to the American criminal justice system. On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 Jb502000@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/27/01 10:04:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > Kadyfoster@aol.com writes: > > > > Good News: A man has been charged with disturbing a cemetery without a > > permit, a class D felon, cemetery mischief, a class A misdemeanor, and > > moving > > a grave memorial without recording, a class C misdemeanor. Officers Jeff > > Atwood and Buck Stogsdill of the DNR investigated. > > > > Let us watch and hope. > > > > David W Foster > > Monroe County > > > > > > > > Thanks for the Report David, > Now lets see if the DNR will follow through and see that the individual is > thoroughly prosecuted by Local officials, or gets his hand slapped and told > not to be a Bad Boy again. Either the Law will work or fall flat on it's > face. It depends on this case. If this one drifts by, then the Legislature > has wasted it's time. We'll see. > > Jack E. Briles, Sr. > Floyd County PCRP Coordinator > PO Box 444 > New Albany, In. 47151-0444 > (812) 282-6585 > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > >
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Sue Silver wrote: > Good morning, > > It would seem this land owner just didn't give a rip enough to go find out > more about the cemetery. His excuse that he thought it was abandoned is > simply lame. Where did he think the bodies would go without the > gravestones? He's certainly not innocent in this... Believe it or not, there are those who view life as life on Earth and death in Heaven or Hell. Some believe that life is just life on Earth and that's it. I see many bodies delievered to IU med school for the students to open. It's his land, and he should have known the law. However, I think the fact that someone in Indiana can drink and drive and get charged with a Misdomeanor while this guy is charged with a Felony is nuts. In order for the drunk to get a felony charge he will have to hurt someone or kill them, or have a PRIOR conviction within 5 years. I understand that this is people's place of rest, but no one living was harmed physically. Maybe emotionally, but that should not be why this is a felony. Obviously people CAN move the graves, thus is why they issue permits. Looks to me that making this a felony is more to scare people into paying the government than it is to keep cemetaries safe.
In a message dated 12/27/01 10:04:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Kadyfoster@aol.com writes: > Good News: A man has been charged with disturbing a cemetery without a > permit, a class D felon, cemetery mischief, a class A misdemeanor, and > moving > a grave memorial without recording, a class C misdemeanor. Officers Jeff > Atwood and Buck Stogsdill of the DNR investigated. > > Let us watch and hope. > > David W Foster > Monroe County > > > Thanks for the Report David, Now lets see if the DNR will follow through and see that the individual is thoroughly prosecuted by Local officials, or gets his hand slapped and told not to be a Bad Boy again. Either the Law will work or fall flat on it's face. It depends on this case. If this one drifts by, then the Legislature has wasted it's time. We'll see. Jack E. Briles, Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator PO Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585
I guess I am insane about sacred things. I guess I am this way so that I teach my children what is sacred to prepare them as well adjusted happy men and women. So they can make the world a better place. Call me old fashion. Call me insane if that were my Great Great Great Grandfathers grave I'd want to hunt the 'evil doer' down like a dog. Although I do not want to see anyone go to jail some ratifacation is justifiable. NTFCannon@Aol.Com (Tom Cannon)
I have some questions for the group: 1: Is one legally bound to let a prospective buyer of a property know that a cemetary is located on their land? 2: The felony will most likely be dropped. I would advise this guy to go not guilty until a plea is written that drops the felony. A felony charge for this is insane. Losing the rights that come from this is just another example of over reaction. Class A misdemeanor is a 1 year jail sentence, that should be plenty. 3: I am still not clear on who _owns_ these cemetaries. Did state law take this land and give it to the counties? I am thinking this is the case since now people get that property tax free. But who cares for it? Thanks, ryan On Thu, 27 Dec 2001 Kadyfoster@aol.com wrote: > The Bad News: Another cemetery as been destroyed. The Fleetwood Cemetery in > Washington Township, Brown County has been destroyed by a person building a > new home. This cemetery is the burial place of Morris SINN, the progenitor of > the SINN family in central Indiana. He was born in Bavaria, and died in 1870. > Graves in this cemetery date from 1842 to 1918. > > Good News: A man has been charged with disturbing a cemetery without a > permit, a class D felon, cemetery mischief, a class A misdemeanor, and moving > a grave memorial without recording, a class C misdemeanor. Officers Jeff > Atwood and Buck Stogsdill of the DNR investigated. > > Let us watch and hope. > > David W Foster > Monroe County > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living? > >
We are a nation under the rule of law. If we do not enforce the laws, then we will be a nation under the rule of anarchy. If the laws are bad, work to change them. Sue Silver California ----- Original Message ----- From: <rvkeller@iupui.edu> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Good New & Bad News > If this guy does one day in jail it's a slap in the face of the justice > system already. I hope he has a good lawyer, there is no reason this man > should lose his right to vote, own a firearm, and possibly not get future > jobs due to this. Hell, I can go out and get plastered drunk and in order > for me to get a felony I would have to injury or kill someone. Welcome to > the American criminal justice system. > > On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 Jb502000@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 12/27/01 10:04:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > > Kadyfoster@aol.com writes: > > > > > > > Good News: A man has been charged with disturbing a cemetery without a > > > permit, a class D felon, cemetery mischief, a class A misdemeanor, and > > > moving > > > a grave memorial without recording, a class C misdemeanor. Officers Jeff > > > Atwood and Buck Stogsdill of the DNR investigated. > > > > > > Let us watch and hope. > > > > > > David W Foster > > > Monroe County > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the Report David, > > Now lets see if the DNR will follow through and see that the individual is > > thoroughly prosecuted by Local officials, or gets his hand slapped and told > > not to be a Bad Boy again. Either the Law will work or fall flat on it's > > face. It depends on this case. If this one drifts by, then the Legislature > > has wasted it's time. We'll see. > > > > Jack E. Briles, Sr. > > Floyd County PCRP Coordinator > > PO Box 444 > > New Albany, In. 47151-0444 > > (812) 282-6585 > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." > > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals." > >
Good morning, It would seem this land owner just didn't give a rip enough to go find out more about the cemetery. His excuse that he thought it was abandoned is simply lame. Where did he think the bodies would go without the gravestones? He's certainly not innocent in this... I liked what you said about teaching your children what sacred is. Yesterday, Rudy Guilani said he wanted the World Trade Center to be a sacred, hallowed ground. I agree with him. There are thousands of people who lost loved ones in the Sept. 11th attacks who will have no grave to go visit. In a hundred years, the descendants of those people will have nowhere to go to connect to their ancestors who lost their lives there. If NY creates a sacred, hallowed, memorial place for them all, those families will have a connection. That's what makes what we're doing so important more than ever. Every grave yard we save, every cemetery we care for will be there when someday someone's descendant comes looking. We are the last line of defense. We, the people. The government's not going to do it! Sue Silver California ----- Original Message ----- From: <NTFCANNON@aol.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 6:07 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Good New & Bad News > I guess I am insane about sacred things. I guess I am this way so that I > teach my children what is sacred to prepare them as well adjusted happy men > and women. So they can make the world a better place. Call me old fashion. > Call me insane if that were my Great Great Great Grandfathers grave I'd want > to hunt the 'evil doer' down like a dog. Although I do not want to see anyone > go to jail some ratifacation is justifiable. > > NTFCannon@Aol.Com (Tom Cannon) > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Please do not send queries through this list. > >
Thanks to Donna Tauber for forwarding to me a 12/06/2001 Anderson Herald story about the Henry Co. Cemetery Commission as well as the photos from the hard-copy version of the 12/24/2001 New York Times story. Both are available from the INPCRP "In the News" web page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/inthenews.html Lois
Dave, I've added both stories to the INPCRP "In the News" page. Thanks for the links. Lois
The story about the Brown County cemetery can be seen in the BROWN COUNTY DEMOCRAT at: www.browncountyindiana.com/arch/01/10/17-breaking2.html and www.browncountyindiana.com/arch/01/12/12-breaking2.html David W Foster
The Bad News: Another cemetery as been destroyed. The Fleetwood Cemetery in Washington Township, Brown County has been destroyed by a person building a new home. This cemetery is the burial place of Morris SINN, the progenitor of the SINN family in central Indiana. He was born in Bavaria, and died in 1870. Graves in this cemetery date from 1842 to 1918. Good News: A man has been charged with disturbing a cemetery without a permit, a class D felon, cemetery mischief, a class A misdemeanor, and moving a grave memorial without recording, a class C misdemeanor. Officers Jeff Atwood and Buck Stogsdill of the DNR investigated. Let us watch and hope. David W Foster Monroe County
Try going to the story from the INPCRP "In the News" webpage at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/inthenews.html There's a working link there. The story is also available there in PDF format. Lois ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jb502000@aol.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 9:56 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Angela, New York Times Story > Angela, > were you able to bring up the story UEB said was in the Times the 24th., It > wouldn'ty come up for me. Is that the right url ? > > Jack E. Briles, Sr. > Floyd County PCRP Coordinator > PO Box 444 > New Albany, In. 47151-0444 > (812) 282-6585
Angela, were you able to bring up the story UEB said was in the Times the 24th., It wouldn'ty come up for me. Is that the right url ? Jack E. Briles, Sr. Floyd County PCRP Coordinator PO Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585
Dear MaryAlice: County Coordinators and INPCRP county pages are covered in the "INPCRP Coordinators' Page" at http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/pcrpcoordinators.html Let me know if you have further questions. Lois ----- Original Message ----- From: "MaryAlice Parks" <maryalicepa@earthlink.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Restoration of Grayson-Long Cemetery in Clark Co., IN nearly completion > Briefly, what would be involved in maintaining a county web page? > > Happy Holidays > MaryAlice Parks