Hello everyone! I thought you all would like to know that in the Greenfield Daily Reporter for Hancock Co., Ind., all the news coverage on Gard cemetery and the formation of a cemetery commission board made the top 10 list for top local stories of 2001. It ranked fourth out of 10 stories. The editorial staff of the Daily Reporter voted on the top local stories. I think this is wonderful that it made the top ten list of important issues! Angela Tielking p.s. The reporter, Janet Helms, who wrote all the cemetery articles for the Daily Reporter won an award recently for her coverage on the issues.

On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Sue Silver wrote: > 27 years of working at Folsom Prison gives one a whole new sense of how > criminals become criminals. And if you're already a criminal at 15, the > likelihood is that you will remain a criminal. Whether your level of crimes > escalate is entirely random. The Juv court judge came and spoke with our class. The return rate of the kids they deal with is only 15%. You are right that most have proboly done it already. Usually it all comes down to the parents. If Jimmy gets busted, the parents should take his car. I see more and more of this NOT happening.

On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, William Spurlock wrote: > In a radius of 12 miles there are 3 Wal Marts, 5 Targets, 15 Kroger's, 13 > Publix Grocery stores, 8 Home Depots, and 3 Lowes. That I am aware of, there > were no less than 12 cemeteries lost to this "needed" development. With a radius of 12 miles, we have the same here in Indy. We are somewhat lucky due to the fact that busing to the Indy township schools pushed people from building in the rural area of Marion Co. (Indianapolis). However, those rural/suburban counties gained rapid development over the last 20 years. I know that some cemeteries were proboly found and kept hush hush. However, I grew up driving by old cemeteries that have never been disturbed and there has never been an issue about building these areas.

In a message dated 1/4/02 2:24:31 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rvkeller@iupui.edu writes: > What is this about? > > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Jb502000@aol.com wrote: > > > Just checking to see if Rich Green is Back. I would like to discuss H.B. > 1758 > It's a cemetery Law now in effect in Indiana ! Jack

In a message dated 1/4/02 2:04:31 PM US Eastern Standard Time, rvkeller@iupui.edu writes: > True, but I was meaning that this once private land was legally allowed to > be land locked. From what the paper said there are many homes around it. > I am not sure if the city want's to look like big bad government due to > forcing the selling of a few homes on the south side. > > > That's different Ryan, if this were a cemetery they certainly wouldn't do it. Jack

We have zoning laws here. They are enforced by a County Planning Commission. Who, if you pay them enough are more than happy to bend those laws to meet your needs. Let me give you this example. I live roughly 10 miles from a major shopping mall, Gwinnett Place Mall. Surrounding it are all the strip malls, fast food, ect you would expect to find near a mall. With the exception of a large cemetery located at right next to I-85. the other sides are bordered by a 6 lane road, a 4 lane road and a office park. On the other side of the smaller road was a large church. It was torn down so a restraunt could be built on the location. Developers are going nuts trying to get that land to build on. So far, it's been saved. But the way things are around here, it's only a matter of time. One of the things built on land near the mall that contained a small cemetery was a 16 screen theater. It just closed last year. So several years ago, the company that owns the first mall decided that the best spot in all of Atlanta to build a huge new mall, largest in the southeast was 8 miles down the expressway. On a very nice piece of land that contained several small cemeteries. The mall was built, and along came all the same strip malls, etc that were around the mall 8 miles down the road. Then someone came up with the bright idea of placing a large mall on the same expressway, right between the two. Never mind the small Church and cemetery that were located on part of that property. Want to guess what's being built around that new mall? The exact same strip malls, etc. In a radius of 12 miles there are 3 Wal Marts, 5 Targets, 15 Kroger's, 13 Publix Grocery stores, 8 Home Depots, and 3 Lowes. That I am aware of, there were no less than 12 cemeteries lost to this "needed" development. William Spurlock Saving Graves http://www.savinggraves.com -----Original Message----- From: rvkeller@iupui.edu [mailto:rvkeller@iupui.edu] Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 3:15 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [INPCRP] Cemetery Laws On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, William Spurlock wrote: > I think that it's not a matter of people not caring, but something much > more. Sue was right, it's a serious lack of respect. Here where I am in the > east suburbs of Atlanta, we have developers clearing every bit of land that > they can find. They don't care what may be there, gotta build on it. We > really need that Target three miles down the road from the next one. We > really need three grocery stores at every intersection. We really need the > new 1200 unit apartment complex that is being built at a time when people > are moving out of Atlanta and there are more vacant apartments that there > has been in the past 10 years. That land needs to be developed. Gotta make > that money. What's funny is that if the demand wasn't there, it wouldn't be built. Lucky for us, Target took a bankrupt department stores place in the mall. The mall was one of the worse ones in town. Now that Target is there, many name brand stores are coming in and it's turning around. I think there is a total lack of brain power when it comes to this sort of thing. A professor of mine had a group of grad students who went to this county just west of Indianapolis. This was about 8-10 years ago I believe. The county board was having trouble keep plants and industrial parks away from homes. The reason: They didn't have ANY zoning laws at all. When the board had these grad students come up with an idea, they said 'you need a zoning board'. The farming community went crazy. I see both sides, one you have a farmer with some debt, may need to sell off some land. One the other hand you have people who buy a house thinking in 5 years it will be all homes. Then comes some industrial park. The main battle we face is that of _private_ property. Also, we can also blame the population in general. There has been a rush to cities and their surrounding counties. Rural suburbs are now both suburban and rural. Head 10 miles in a certain direction, your in a corn fields.

On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, William Spurlock wrote: > I think that it's not a matter of people not caring, but something much > more. Sue was right, it's a serious lack of respect. Here where I am in the > east suburbs of Atlanta, we have developers clearing every bit of land that > they can find. They don't care what may be there, gotta build on it. We > really need that Target three miles down the road from the next one. We > really need three grocery stores at every intersection. We really need the > new 1200 unit apartment complex that is being built at a time when people > are moving out of Atlanta and there are more vacant apartments that there > has been in the past 10 years. That land needs to be developed. Gotta make > that money. What's funny is that if the demand wasn't there, it wouldn't be built. Lucky for us, Target took a bankrupt department stores place in the mall. The mall was one of the worse ones in town. Now that Target is there, many name brand stores are coming in and it's turning around. I think there is a total lack of brain power when it comes to this sort of thing. A professor of mine had a group of grad students who went to this county just west of Indianapolis. This was about 8-10 years ago I believe. The county board was having trouble keep plants and industrial parks away from homes. The reason: They didn't have ANY zoning laws at all. When the board had these grad students come up with an idea, they said 'you need a zoning board'. The farming community went crazy. I see both sides, one you have a farmer with some debt, may need to sell off some land. One the other hand you have people who buy a house thinking in 5 years it will be all homes. Then comes some industrial park. The main battle we face is that of _private_ property. Also, we can also blame the population in general. There has been a rush to cities and their surrounding counties. Rural suburbs are now both suburban and rural. Head 10 miles in a certain direction, your in a corn fields. > > William Spurlock > Saving Graves > http://www.savinggraves.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: rvkeller@iupui.edu [mailto:rvkeller@iupui.edu] > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:56 PM > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cemetery Laws > > > > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Sue Silver wrote: > > > > > You know, in the past, people would never have considered building their > house or a barn on a cemetery. It just wasn't done. > > They had respect. What happened? > > I think many people just don't care. Think about it, how do a lot of us > know our homes are not build over Indian graves? The whole fact of the > spirit lives on just means a body is a body. I know that the IU med > school gets their fair share of bodies donated to medical science. I > never really thought much about it, but that is a total 180 from the norm. > I think it's more of a thought pattern that life is from brith till death, > then after that who cares. > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version) > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals." > >

We have to assume that the developer that built the house had enough ethics and respect that if there were any indications of a burial found that they would have done the right thing. Of course we all know that most developers are only interested in one thing, making as much money as possible. I think that it's not a matter of people not caring, but something much more. Sue was right, it's a serious lack of respect. Here where I am in the east suburbs of Atlanta, we have developers clearing every bit of land that they can find. They don't care what may be there, gotta build on it. We really need that Target three miles down the road from the next one. We really need three grocery stores at every intersection. We really need the new 1200 unit apartment complex that is being built at a time when people are moving out of Atlanta and there are more vacant apartments that there has been in the past 10 years. That land needs to be developed. Gotta make that money. William Spurlock Saving Graves http://www.savinggraves.com -----Original Message----- From: rvkeller@iupui.edu [mailto:rvkeller@iupui.edu] Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:56 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cemetery Laws On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Sue Silver wrote: > > You know, in the past, people would never have considered building their house or a barn on a cemetery. It just wasn't done. > They had respect. What happened? I think many people just don't care. Think about it, how do a lot of us know our homes are not build over Indian graves? The whole fact of the spirit lives on just means a body is a body. I know that the IU med school gets their fair share of bodies donated to medical science. I never really thought much about it, but that is a total 180 from the norm. I think it's more of a thought pattern that life is from brith till death, then after that who cares. ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)

What is this about? On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Jb502000@aol.com wrote: > Just checking to see if Rich Green is Back. I would like to discuss H.B. 1758 > > Jack E. Briles Sr. > jb502000@aol.com > Floyd County INPCRP Coordinator > PO Box 444 > New Albany, In. 47151-0444 > (812) 282-6585 > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living? > >

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Jb502000@aol.com wrote: > When you think you've heard and seen it all something like this > happens. There should be no Plea bargain if these persons are caught, and Yes > there are more than one, with one it's no fun. They should receive Jail time > with full restitution for every cent of damage. If the crucifix can even be > repaired. You could put up a new one, but you can't replace the 50 years it > was there. It sounds like the judge may lean toward the tolerant side. I hope > there is enough community pressure to prevent that. The only way to stop > these repeated acts of vandalism is to severely punish those that should be > caught and convicted. If we jailed everyone for every crime of vandalism, we would need to build even more prisons than ever concieved. Plus, I believe much of this is teenage vandalism. When a 15 year old does a year in jail, the stats show he will end up being nothing when he grows up. Most do attend 'school' while in detention, but never attend real 'school' once they are out. A massive fine PLUS cost of repair nailed to THE PARENTS is what is needed.

If this is an on-going problem...it may be worth it to sit out and film the perps. It all depends if people want to take the time out of their lives. On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Lois Mauk wrote: > The St. John Kanty Catholic Cemetery in LaPorte County has again suffered > substantial vandalism. See: > http://www.heraldargus.com/content/story.php?storyid=206 > for the full story. > > Lois > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals." > >

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Steve Frevert wrote: A lot of things are different in other countries. I don't know what we would do here if we just didn't have the land. Well, I take that back. Suburban areas have shown us what will happen when suburban flight takes place...we will do the same as they do in Germany.

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Sue Silver wrote: > It's a cemetery. People's loved ones are buried there. It was there first. > Leave it alone. The problem here and the response your going to get is: "Why then did the family sell it." I forget what the law says on old cemeteries on private land, but I know I see many small ones in the middle of farms. I have no idea if the original family still owns the land, but many of them look to be taken care of. When you get someone who purchased land back in the 60s up until now, it should be disclosed and known that family may want to visit. It seems more and more people are into looking at their families past. I for one could careless if I end up buying some land with a cemetery. Depending on how it is, I would do some yard work. At least in most counties, county law says you have to mow your yard at least once during the spring summer seasons. If someone is taking a tax break, the least they could do is allow family to visit and keep the area clean. > Simple....common sense. Give it to a legislator and it comes out sounding > like Martian gibberish. Law enforcement has enough on it's hands with > crimes against the living. Crimes against the defenseless dead just aren't > priorities, even if there are three-fold the victims because of the living > descendants of those dead. THe war on drugs has caused this 'we are too busy' attitude. I don't want to go in on the whole drug debate, but so many departments are taking officers off the street and putting them in school DARE programs. I don't view victimless crime as that important. Getting people for property crime and violent crime should be the priority. NOT giving 5th graders T-shirts and making them Narcs.

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Jb502000@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/2/02 2:37:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > rvkeller@iupui.edu writes: > > > > Well if you mean ANY property, no such thing. A family recently gave the > > city of Greenfield a few acres. The city would love to make it into a > > park since there is not much park land on the west area of the city. The > > problem is that it's land locked. So I would assume that over the years > > the property around this area was legally sold to others even though it > > would land lock. > Ryan, > If the city of Greenfield doesn't use the rights of Eminent domain to obtain > a right of way it's only because they don't want a park at this time or don't > have the funds available. they do have the power under the law as follows: > > Information Maintained by the office of Code Revision Indiana Legislature > Service Agency > > Title 32 IC 32-11 Article 11. Eminent Domain > Covered by IC 32-11-1 Thru IC 32-11-12 > IC 32-11-2.1 Contains a UNIFORM LAND or EASEMENT ACQUISITION OFFER FORM That > the Government agency has to use to start proceedings. > > The Law is Long, but it is very specific how the city could obtain a right of > way to the Acreage to make a Park, if they wanted one. The Officials of the > Government Entity wanting a right of way may Legally go on to the Property, > more than once if necessary to be sure they want an access rd. and they > cannot be charged with Trespassing. > I have never agreed with the Law but I guess at times it is necessary. > According to the Law they must give the location that they need on the > property they wish to cross, the width and length. The matter probably would > end up in court, so to be sure of getting what they want, they would pick the > shortest route, and the narrowest road feasible. But they must want to let > the acreage sit to see if they need it later. They can get access anytime. > The above does not cover private property around a cemetery. Although it > might be possible for a Trustee to save a Historic Cemetery. This would be > for the good of the Public. True, but I was meaning that this once private land was legally allowed to be land locked. From what the paper said there are many homes around it. I am not sure if the city want's to look like big bad government due to forcing the selling of a few homes on the south side.

On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Sue Silver wrote: > > You know, in the past, people would never have considered building their house or a barn on a cemetery. It just wasn't done. > They had respect. What happened? I think many people just don't care. Think about it, how do a lot of us know our homes are not build over Indian graves? The whole fact of the spirit lives on just means a body is a body. I know that the IU med school gets their fair share of bodies donated to medical science. I never really thought much about it, but that is a total 180 from the norm. I think it's more of a thought pattern that life is from brith till death, then after that who cares.

If a 15 year-old is destroying private property and violating the law, the chances are that he's been doing this for a while now, he's just never gotten caught. 27 years of working at Folsom Prison gives one a whole new sense of how criminals become criminals. And if you're already a criminal at 15, the likelihood is that you will remain a criminal. Whether your level of crimes escalate is entirely random. Sue Silver ----- Original Message ----- From: <rvkeller@iupui.edu> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Vandalism rears its ugly head again > > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Jb502000@aol.com wrote: > > > When you think you've heard and seen it all something like this > > happens. There should be no Plea bargain if these persons are caught, and Yes > > there are more than one, with one it's no fun. They should receive Jail time > > with full restitution for every cent of damage. If the crucifix can even be > > repaired. You could put up a new one, but you can't replace the 50 years it > > was there. It sounds like the judge may lean toward the tolerant side. I hope > > there is enough community pressure to prevent that. The only way to stop > > these repeated acts of vandalism is to severely punish those that should be > > caught and convicted. > > If we jailed everyone for every crime of vandalism, we would need to build > even more prisons than ever concieved. Plus, I believe much of this is > teenage vandalism. When a 15 year old does a year in jail, the stats show > he will end up being nothing when he grows up. Most do attend 'school' > while in detention, but never attend real 'school' once they are out. A > massive fine PLUS cost of repair nailed to THE PARENTS is what is needed. > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > >

HI-- I live in Steuben Co. I'd be willing to help any way I could--- Jennifer Hocker bobandjenhocker@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "CLUGH_LA" <clugh_la@email.msn.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 8:28 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Northern Council District-BSA > Dear list, Help Northerners! > > I'm looking for anyone that may be willing to share their preservationist > skills with the > Boy Scouts of America, Northern Council for Indiana. > http://www.sagamoresignals.com/council_maps.htm > This Council is looking for a project that will carry them through 15 > counties to complete a > Council merit badge. Many of these guys are older and part of the Order of > the Arrow's. > > I only see county contacts for Cass/Miami, Carroll and Howard. > > I think it would be most helpful it I could give them names and emails to > communicate with if they decide to take on this project. > > I don't see any up coming workshop on the page yet. Is anyone thinking > about this for this year? > > L. A. Clugh > Tippecanoe Co. > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > >

Just checking to see if Rich Green is Back. I would like to discuss H.B. 1758 Jack E. Briles Sr. jb502000@aol.com Floyd County INPCRP Coordinator PO Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812) 282-6585

Dear list, Help Northerners! I'm looking for anyone that may be willing to share their preservationist skills with the Boy Scouts of America, Northern Council for Indiana. http://www.sagamoresignals.com/council_maps.htm This Council is looking for a project that will carry them through 15 counties to complete a Council merit badge. Many of these guys are older and part of the Order of the Arrow's. I only see county contacts for Cass/Miami, Carroll and Howard. I think it would be most helpful it I could give them names and emails to communicate with if they decide to take on this project. I don't see any up coming workshop on the page yet. Is anyone thinking about this for this year? L. A. Clugh Tippecanoe Co.

L A Clugh, and other enterested cemetery researchers, it was in 1866 and the United States was recovering from the long and bloody Civil War. Soldiers, many ampties returning home all had stories to tell. Henry Welles, a drug store owner in Waterloo New York, heard the storiesa and had an idea; on the morning of May fifth, the townspeople placed wreaths and flowers on graves of Northern soldiers. About the same time, Retired Major General Jonathan A. Logan planed another ceremony, this time for the sodiers who survived the war. Logan led them through town to the cemetery to decorate thier comrads graves with flags. It was a happy celebration but a memorial. The townspeople called it " Decoration Day ". In Major General Logans proclomation he declared; ' THE 30TH OF MAY 1868 IS DESIGNATED FOR THE PURPOSE OF DECORATING GRAVES OF COMRADS WHO DIED DEFENDING THEIR COUNTRY AND WHO'S BODIES NOW LIE IN ALMOST EVERY TOWN VILLAGE AND HAMLET CHURCHYARD IN THE LAND. IN THIS OBSERVANCE NO FORMAL CEREMONY IS PROSCRIBED, BUT POST AND COMRADS WILL IN THEIR OWN WAY ARRANGE SUCH FITTING SERVICES AND TESTIMONIALS OF RESPECT AS CIRCUMSTANCES MAY PERMIT. The two ceremonies were joined in 1868 and Northern States commemerated on May 30th. Southern States commemerated on different days. Rifles were shot in the air as a salute to Northern Soldiers who had given their lives to keep the United States together. In 1882 the name was changed to Memorial Day and soldiers who died in previous wars were honered as well. In the Northern United States it was designated a public holiday. In 1971 along with other holidays President Richard M. Nixon declared memorial day a Federal Holiday on the last Monday in May. President Lyndon B. Johnson declared Waterloo the birthplace of Memorial Day in 1966 - one hundred years after the first commemoration. Some Southern States continue to celebrate Memorial Day on various days, I. E. June 3rd in Louisiana and Tennessee called " Confederate Memorial Day " and on May 10th in North and South Carolina's. In Washington D. C. on the Friday before the last Monday soldiers plaxce flags on the thousands of graves in Arlington Cemetery. A special unit is assigned each year to do this declaring as they place each flag... "the dead have done their job now it is time for the living to do theirs ". Thats all I have to say about the origin of Memorial Day.