To borrow a saying that was at the end of one of Andi MacDonald's emails: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead Me thinks we need to write a sample email message asking that disturbance of graves, cemeteries and Native burial grounds be halted completely, and start having everyone send it around to their local, state and federal legislators. Once they get thousands of emails, perhaps they will learn to spell "constituency." Sue Silver CA ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jb502000@aol.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Archeologists and cemetery preservation > In a message dated 2/17/02 6:44:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > sshowell@indy.net writes: > > > > There is an opportunity for us to educate > > the next generation of archaeologists, if we only knew how to go about it. > > > > > Sharon, > Like anything, eventually there's change. We the People, and the > Archeologists must learn to adapt to change, Their studies must be brought > into the modern world and stop acting like we are living in Egypt at the turn > of the Century. Archeologist are complaining about not making money. The > opportunity is out there in a slightly different way then looking in, and at > Native American Sites. There is a need, as we all can see to become better > educated in modern methods. With property disappearing at a fast clip, they > will become more in demand, and with demand comes money. > Jack Briles Sr > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > >

In a message dated 2/17/02 6:44:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time, sshowell@indy.net writes: > There is an opportunity for us to educate > the next generation of archaeologists, if we only knew how to go about it. > > Sharon, Like anything, eventually there's change. We the People, and the Archeologists must learn to adapt to change, Their studies must be brought into the modern world and stop acting like we are living in Egypt at the turn of the Century. Archeologist are complaining about not making money. The opportunity is out there in a slightly different way then looking in, and at Native American Sites. There is a need, as we all can see to become better educated in modern methods. With property disappearing at a fast clip, they will become more in demand, and with demand comes money. Jack Briles Sr

In a message dated 2/17/02 12:40:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time, ssilver1951@jps.net writes: > Perhaps we should all ask our legislatures to write > "Eternal Rest" or "Rest in Peace" on the blackboard until their stubby > little fingers fall off. Then we can bury them in the middle of the next > major intersection being constructed. > > Sue Silver > Fed up in CA > Way to go Sue. My feelings exactly. Jack Briles

In a message dated 2/17/02 11:40:18 AM US Eastern Standard Time, andimac@oz.net writes: > > It is my opinion that archeologists are interested in burials in a > historical sense but are not interested in current cemetery preservation. > One is in the past, the other is current. I might call an archeologist if > I > needed to know if there is a historical Native American burial, but I would > not call an archeologist to conserve a stone. > > -------------- > Andrea D. MacDonald "Andi" > andimac@oz.net > > Andi, you said exactly what I feel about the Ancient Native Americans and what I call modern man, from the last 200 odd years. My question is WHY are they different. And If you can't disturb a "Modern Burial " site, how can you dig up a Native American and Cart them off for studies. Study WHAT. They died and were buried. No one should be able to remove anything buried in a grave site, just to find out WHAT ? When a Burial Site is Discovered, LET IT BE. For 68 years I have heard that a Burial Site is Hallowed Ground. Why can't people honor that and work around them. I;m sorry I won't be around when these Large Beautiful cemeteries run out of money, or ground and Grow up with Brush. It will happen, not today, not tomorrow but maybe a Hundred years from now just like the small ones we worry about now. They never dreamed anything would happen to them either. My wife and I are going to be Creamated. No one will ever have to worry about us. And $5,000 dollar stones wont have to be bulldozed when the area we will be scattered at is graded off. And they can put in a Airport, Factory, House, etc, etc. WE WONT CARE. Thanks for the story Andi, I for one understand that you make sense Jack E. Briles Sr. jb502000@aol.com

The follow was posted on "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter", Vol. 7 No. 7 - February 18, 2002, sponsored by Ancestry.com, copyright 2002, by Richard W. Eastman. It is re-published herewith the permission of Richard W. Eastman < richard@eastman.net >. ============================================================== - You Can Restore Cemeteries I received a fascinating e-mail this week from William Meacham. I will publish it here in its entirety: Dear Richard, Your readers might be interested to know that small family cemetery restoration is not terribly expensive or difficult to organize, if they know how to go about it, and most importantly, if they can find a good gravestone restorer. A few days after my father died in 1999 I went to Hopkinsville, KY (his hometown) to arrange for his burial. I also drove out to the northern part of the county to try to find two early Meacham family cemeteries. I was shocked by their condition -- most of the gravestones had fallen down, many were broken in half, and everything was covered in a thick tangle of vegetation. I was especially moved when I brushed away the soil and vines that were covering the beautifully carved but broken gravestone of my 4th great- grandmother. It was an emotional moment, and I vowed then and there to restore the two cemeteries. In the words of a civil war veteran who put up a monument to his unknown comrades buried in Hopkinsville: "There are hours in everyone's life when the spirit of the past rises from its tomb, and will not depart until it is appeased with sacrifice." A long series of inquiries led me finally to John Walters of Connersville, IN, highly recommended but 6 hours away by car. Eventually I arranged for him and his wife to come down to Hopkinsville, met them there, put them up for 3 nights in a motel, and we finished both cemeteries in 14 hours of field work. Total cost, including some preparation and tree-cutting before he arrived, was about $600 per cemetery. The process and the results can be seen in the relevant article on my website: "Early Virginia and Kentucky Meachams" http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wmeacham/ There might be a lot of people out there who feel more daunted than I was, as an archaeologist, at the prospect of organizing cemetery restoration work. But anyone willing to spend a little time and money to do it right can accomplish wonderful things. The reaction of the cemetery specialist at the Kentucky Historical Society to the photos up on my website was simply "Wow!" If you don't want to plug John Walters directly, please feel free to mention the article on my website and invite anyone who is interested in doing something similar to contact me. Sincerely, William Meacham You may contact William Meacham at: wmeacham@hkusua.hku.hk

My daughter was an archaeology major at IUPUI for three years before changing her major to art. This was about four years ago. There is an opportunity for us to educate the next generation of archaeologists, if we only knew how to go about it. I asked her: When you were taking archaeology classes, did they ever talk about finding old cemeteries, or how to figure out how big a cemetery was, or anything about cemeteries? Did they talk about Native American burial site? What about early pioneer sites? She answered: Not much. With the classes I took, NA burial sites were talked about more than pioneer sites and the like but I don't remember anything about how to find them. Except that they're usually hills or earthworks. I do remember that there were info packets about pioneer cemeteries who wanted a student to do research there for their practicum. Sharon Howell

Well said, Andi. We found out in California that while we were all thinking the Native American sites were protected, they aren't really. They can be "capped" with gunnite or, IF someone can prove descendancy, the remains are given to them for reburial. In our county, that means cremated remains because that was the prehistoric and historic (to about 1865) method of burial for the Native Americans in this neck of the woods. We've had one former county supervisor who hauled in 20 yards of fill dirt to spread over a Native burial site so no one would discover it when he decides to subdivide. We've had surveyors stop a road job and relocate the road, only to have the property owner go back in and push the cemetery over the embankment it's near. And CalTrans, our favorite preserver of nothing, bulldozed U.S. Highway 50 through a pre-historic burial site upon which a "white" cemetery had also been established, but left the "white" cemetery alone. I must say that we are all becoming victims of indifference when it comes to our burial places. Perhaps we should all ask our legislatures to write "Eternal Rest" or "Rest in Peace" on the blackboard until their stubby little fingers fall off. Then we can bury them in the middle of the next major intersection being constructed. Sue Silver Fed up in CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andi MacDonald" <andimac@oz.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:36 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Archeologists and cemetery preservation > Hello all, > > I've just read through the majority of the 'archeologist' emails. I've got > to put my two cents worth in here. I try to lay low and only respond > occasionally, this is one of those times. > >

Hello all, I've just read through the majority of the 'archeologist' emails. I've got to put my two cents worth in here. I try to lay low and only respond occasionally, this is one of those times. Here in Washington state we have an altogether different scenario, yet very similar. Similar in that we have "trouble" with archeologists and different in that archeologists know a lot about the ancient burial sites. Let me explain. We have a tremendous number of Native American burial sites here in Washington. We also have a tremendous amount of archeologists who are self-acclaimed experts of Native American burial sites. Quite often archy's (much less typing with this nickname) are called in by the state or local government when a burial is discovered on property being graded. Work absolutely STOPS until an archy decides whether or not it is a historical burial (the local coroner is called in also to claim whether or not a homicide). If the archy claims it is a historical burial, they can take--yes, take-- the remains and send them to a university of their choice for further study. If they turn out to be Native American, they are supposed be returned to the tribe claiming them for reburial. All an archy has to do to claim everything in the burial site is remove it and send it somewhere. Recently, it was found that an archy put in charge of a burial site in a small town north of Seattle had removed many remains and all that was buried with them and sent them to a university in another state. However, it was found that the man had stolen items for his own use. Selling some and storing other stuff at his home. Bones had been found in a box in the back of his truck, everything was not tagged, photographed, recorded, etc., as an archy is supposed to do. The man was too common for this area. Tribes have been claiming for years that this is happening, and complaining in their quiet way, with no results. And, the worst part is that government agencies hiring them have claimed they have no further responsibility to the remains--they just want to be rid of the burial site so they can build, or whatever. (BTW, I am neither NA nor an archy) In the City of Snohomish, the Snohomish Cemetery was said to have no burials (people actually think that if the remains are 100 years old or thereabouts, they have disappeared and this means the cemetery is no longer a cemetery). A senior center was moved onto the property (an old house), and a parking lot was paved. Descendants (archeologists, I might add) filed a lawsuit to stop the desecrations. The City claimed there were no remains and wanted the dedication removed so they could also build a teen center next door. The descendants (one family) spent over $100,000 to stop the madness. The judge ordered an archeologist come in to determine whether or not there were burials. They graded a portion of the property to expose unworked soil, the archeologist located some graves (disturbed dirt compared to undisturbed dirt). They dug into a couple of graves and behold! they found remains. I'm not sure of the final disposition of the case. The archeologist did their job to that point. The problem? The descendant who is an archeologist is married to an archeologist working on the Kennewick man. The husband working on the Kennewick man (remember the remains that had been rebuilt by a sculptor that looked like Jon Luc Picard of Star Trek?) did not want to release the remains of the Kennewick man back to the tribe from whose land the remains had been taken. So, when it was their own family--they wanted it to be left alone, but when it suited their research, they wanted to claim the remains and remove them to a university. Quite a juxtiposition! Moral to my email--an archeologist is just like everyone else and some are trustworthy and others are not. They each must be treated to their lowest common denominator--which means archys must be monitored and accountable. Sad, but necessary, here anyway. It is my opinion that archeologists are interested in burials in a historical sense but are not interested in current cemetery preservation. One is in the past, the other is current. I might call an archeologist if I needed to know if there is a historical Native American burial, but I would not call an archeologist to conserve a stone. -------------- Andrea D. MacDonald "Andi" andimac@oz.net Washington State Cemetery Association http://www.rootsweb.com/~wapsgs/ "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

Holly: Found your story at: http://www.heraldargus.com/content/story.php?storyid=428 Lois

In a message dated 2/16/02 9:53:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time, hollyjen@csinet.net writes: > WE WON THE FIRST BATTLE > > Congratulations Holly, I'm always glad to see a winning Idea succeed, Good Luck on the Rest. Jack

Lois just checking out the new email address WE WON THE FIRST BATTLE more than 500 signatures were gathered at the county complex and around the county, some are going to mail them in our county is putting up a new jail addition and the area is tore up, they have to park blocks away, and they streamed in Friday for our petition thru the dreaded parking situation Our story appeared on the front page of the paper but not posted as of Friday night what a wonderful story and first step for us we have really got the community awareness look tomorrow and see if the story is posted. http://www.heraldargus.com/ Holly Jenks LaPorte ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@insightbb.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 4:01 PM Subject: [INPCRP] E-mail Address Change for Lois Mauk > It's official. With the demise of @home cable internet, our local cable ISP > has stepped up to the plate and we are "back in business", but our e-mail > addresses have been changed. > > Please update your records to reflect that, effective 2/16/2002, my new > e-mail address is: > LoisMauk@InsightBB.com > > If you should ever experience difficulty reaching me, I do have an > alternate, but PERMANENT e-mail forwarding address at LoisMauk@usa.net that > you can use to get in touch with me. > > Best regards, > Lois Mauk > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Please do not send queries through this list.

Any of you who might be Catholic and receive "The Criterion" can read about the recovery of a tombstone and mystery solved regarding the grave of Brother Ansellm in the Springdale Cemetery (City of Madison). Four other brothers went north to found Notre Dame, but his wearabouts had remained a mystery. The stone had been buried underground for at least sixty years, thought to have been washed away in the 1937 flood. Ellyn Kern

The online link to the Springdale Cemetery story is http://www.archindy.org/Criterion.html The Old Public Ground section of this cemetery- a large section in itself- appears at first glance to be devoid of stones. Apparently they were all laid flat at some point in the past and are now almost completely sodded over. With luck they will be uncovered someday; I suspect a number of my ancestors are buried there.

It's official. With the demise of @home cable internet, our local cable ISP has stepped up to the plate and we are "back in business", but our e-mail addresses have been changed. Please update your records to reflect that, effective 2/16/2002, my new e-mail address is: LoisMauk@InsightBB.com If you should ever experience difficulty reaching me, I do have an alternate, but PERMANENT e-mail forwarding address at LoisMauk@usa.net that you can use to get in touch with me. Best regards, Lois Mauk

In a message dated 2/15/02 2:23:21 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rhapke@adsnet.com writes: > How deep were the markers buried? Were the soils mottled, disturbed around > the stones and how 'fresh' was the mottling? Did the soil get a chance to > start forming again before the commencement of construction? Some soil > establishment, even within an inch would indicate the stones were down for > awhile, while mottling all the way to the surface would indicate much more > recent removal or disturbance. HOw much was stripped off by machinery? > > Iv'e been in Construction 48 years, and after the area has been graded like it has, and moved around, I can't answer anything except one or two were deep and undisturbed according to the earlier pictures. (See E-mail sent to John Walters.) I spent an hour and a half there and still can't come up with answers. And I am familliar with Alluvium Deposits in Alluvial soil. Iv'e worked in 18 states. But once the ground has been disturbed as much as this, unless I saw it in it's native state, I can't answer your questions with any degree o. And I won't speculate.

In a message dated 2/12/02 7:20:21 AM US Eastern Standard Time, graveyardgroomer@skyenet.net writes: > Cris, > I looked at the photo's and I know that I can save them, I have photo,s of > stones in a lot worst shape than those and proud to say they are > respectfully standing now. So many times people look at broken and > weathered stones as unsalvageable,many of us on the list do not look at > them that way.To me it is still pieces of History and worthy of saving John, I was at Columbus Friday afternoon and saw the Excavation where they dug down in an Archeological dig. But it is so low that all rain water settles in there. All I could see was the Red flags marking where the stones should be. As you noticed in the pictures the stones were lying flat and some appeared to be deep compared to the ground around them. In my opinion holes were dug where the stones were located, and then buried and farmed over. It may have been farmed around, its' hard to tell now. They weren't moved, if they had been they would have been in one hole close together, and theyre not.. From the pictures Cris took, I can see that they can be repaired. The only problem was I never saw a base, at least that I could recognize. The ground where they are located was on about the highest point in the fairly level field. Grading has changed the Topography. But from that Area the ground at one time drained away from that spot. The other one in Cross Creek is in as bad a shape as they get. Absoutely no maintenance has been done since the Subdivison was built in the Mid to late 90s. Crossmans's record is not spotless. I believe they were buried exactly where they were found, and then farmed over. I used a hand held sight level and it hit about 8 feet up on the new houses. I'm 5 ft 7 1/2 so that means from my eye level the ground where I stood was Higher then the surrounding area. I don't think this is going to work out to well. It's a case of wait and see. 2 of the breaks were new, the rest were old and the stones were lying flat. The new breaks looked like they broke in the moving. It'll take a Pro to put them back right. Keep that in mind. It's definitely a different situation than Fowler/Mundy in Perry Twp., Marion Co. This one is going to be on Lot # 157 between lots. Backing up against the lot behind it. Fowler/ Mundy was separated. But there is no Brush, or even Grass. Jack Briles jb502000@aol.com

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 Pride1jw@aol.com wrote: > HOW TRUE!!! AND THIS SHOWS HOW BI-POLAR WE ARE IN THIS CULTURE AT THIS > TIME ;(with no intent to show disrespect to the victims of the terrible > tragedy of Sept. 11,2001,) We are in this country at the present > time,,,dozing out burial sites big time for such as shopping centers, > vandalizing them,and at the same time in New York,working around the clock to > find even the smallest piece of tissue to be buried/cremated to bring relief > to the families of those lost...so what will happen to these remains in 100 > yrs.....Ruth Pride RN Wheatland,Knox Co. > I disagree. For one we are not trying to find the smallest piece of tissue. I have heard reports via law enforcement officers that there are 'pieces' everywhere and that the body dogs hit on EVERYTHING when they were first using them. The fact remains that the WTC has to be cleaned up. It may be nice to think we are doing it to salvage bodies, but that is just really feel good thinking and talking. Overall I believe the reason no one cares about cemetaries after a certain time is that because so many people believe in heaven and hell they all believe that everyone is in heaven and the spirit is gone. I think most people get upset over current family gravesites, because it's _current_ AND it cost some much $$$$ today than just burying someone in the middle of backyards in a homemade pine box. I think to some it's a 'time to move on deal' with our pioneer cemeteries. I am big mostly on just preserving nature more so than a cemetery. I agree with cemetery preservation, usually because that can mean preserving a small size of nature along with it. Problems arise when people want things done. Right now we don't have it bad in Indianapolis cause even though we are growing, we have enough people following the laws. If Crossman wanted to use $$ to 'take care' of the cemetery problem it proboly already could have. Either under the table (moved the stones to the place they are supposed to be according to the deed) or just went ahead and filed court papers to declare the deeds null and void due to them being incorrect. Our state needs money, more jobs, etc.. If we leave it to the courts to decide these things, they may start ruling that the need to get people here is more important than a cemetery. I for one would think an old cemetery would be neat in a neighborhood, but there are other people who would not dare move into that neighborhood. The Crossman thing will be a test case as central Indiana grews and more pioneer cemeteries are found and uncovered. > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- > "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families > are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is > undisguised. This is a cemetery. > "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, > historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. > "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved > in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - > not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family > memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. > "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of > yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery > exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." > --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA > > >

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Christine West wrote: > What do you think? An odd situation. If they don't give it to Crossman, then I believe Crossman has been mislead. I wonder just how 'vague' the deed is. I wonder if this was done on purpose? Either way Crossman may get to sue someone. Crossman is definatly thinking about $$$ issues as they should, otherwise the paper wouldn't have pointed out the fact that Crossman paid taxes on that land. The one thing is that if Crossman gets screwed, then the Indiana Supreme Court could ruin the whole thing...if the paper was right and 'vague' deeds are usually ruled null and void. I would do this before anything else: Check to see if Crossman (or their new parent company) has ever done anything like this before. That is have these companies found gravesites and did they really take care of them? The thing is Crossman (or the new company) may have a great history of grave up-keep, whereas if the township of that area may see this as a burden. I think what it will come down to is if Crossman doesn't have it their way they are going to either 1: Sue the family that sold them the land claming they were lied to or 2: Take the deed issue to the Indiana Supreme Court.

Holly Jenks <hollyjen@csinet.net> has asked me to post this to the INPCRP list. > This news release is being sent to all the persons with cemetery > interests...We would appreciate your support via email, stop by the > LaPorte County complex this Friday 1-4 to get details, or appear > at the commissioners meeting next tues at 6 to show your support. =============== Cemetery friends and Families LaPorte Co Pioneer Cemetery Commission would like to announcement that we are collecting signatures for our LaPorte Co Commissioners to adopt a county ordinance on Cemetery restitution. We have a petition on going. You can sign up at the courthouse this Friday 1-4pm in the County Complex meeting room #3. We will present our petition at the Co commissioners meeting on Tuesday Feb 19th at 6 if anyone wants to join us there. --------------------------------------- PETITION We, the undersigned, petition the La Porte County Commissioners to pass the following proposed ordinance for the protection of all the cemeteries of La Porte county from acts of vandalism and the prosecution of the violators thereof. The proposed, Cemetery vandalism and the prosecution of the violators ordinance, will include: Dusk to Dawn curfew with signage, vandalism will be defined as any disturbance of a graveyard including the damage, defacing or theft of grave stones, monuments, mausoleums, fences, signage, urns, markers, flags, the destruction of the cemetery grounds and other acts of vandalism. The proposed county ordinance will make violators responsible for restitution and in the case of a violator that is underage, the parents, and or guardian will make restitution. The violators will be prosecuted according to the state laws citing cemetery mischief as a Class A misdemeanor and any loss determined by the cemetery to be at least $2500.00 as a Class D felony. --------------------------------------- The petition signing ends Friday, Feb 15th -------------------------------------------------- We had community service persons helping clean up the cemeteries through the probation department during this past year. This has been a great program, they pay back to the community. We want the county residents to know we won't stand for this kind of vandalism. We want to help in anyway possible to make these persons responsible for desecration of our county burial grounds. Some of our 80+ cemeteries in the county began as family burial grounds before 1832 when the county was formed. We must help preserve these final resting places of our families, Native Americans and of the veterans of all wars. We know the ordinance isn't the answer but it is a start to get the awareness of cemetery destruction in the public eye. One LaPorte County cemetery has been hit 10 times this past year. HOLLY JENKS, President LAPORTE CO PIONEER CEMETERY COMMISSION Visit our web page designed by Deanna West of Michigan City http://www.rootsweb.com/~inlpccem/cems.htm