While we are on this subject, and it looks like I'm about the only one who is, one other note about government headstones is that I did not know or realize until recently that if a veteran was proven to be buried in a mass grave and the body was not reinterred to another burial place the Federal Government will provide a memorial stone (not a monument) which is identical to the other to be placed in a National Cemetery. So, remember when you're out there paying respects to your great-grandfather who was killed in the Civil War, etc. His stone might be in St. Louis, but his remains are still in Tennessee. Only the records can tell you for sure if he is actually buried there. And of course, some can't. I just always assumed they went together, for some reason. Jon _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Ernie, I understand. And essentially what you told me is what the V.A. in short told me. Lie! Maybe not lie, just don't tell the whole story and play like you don't have anything out there to mount it to when you know wholeheartedly that you are going to turn right around and mount it to his private headstone. The rules that you quote also say that anyone who died before Jan 1 with a private headstone is not eligible for a government stone. I don't think it would do much good to reapply. After several years of letter witing, they have quite a hefty file on me or at least on his grave. They know he has a stone. The fact is, exactly what you just suggested that is done (ordering the plaque first, knowing you are going to order a private stone) was done all over the country for many years and in my opinion it was wrong. I mean if you want to be honest about it. Kind of like claiming a dependent on your taxes for a kid that's not born yet, but we're really thinking about having one so we'll answer the question like we already do and by the time the audit comes around he'll be here anyway. I am sure that the IRS would go for that. Jon >From: Ernie & Connie Lasley <elasley@sigecom.net> >Reply-To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Government stones >Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:29:30 -0600 > >Jon, > >Most of the bronze markers in this area are ordered BEFORE the private >marker is in place. You must have something to mount the bronze marker >to, so they order the granite (or other) stone to mount it to, then have >the other side engraved. The rules read: > >"Arrangements for setting a Government-furnished headstone or marker in a >private cemetery are the applicant's responsibility and all placement costs >are at private expense." > >Since the placement cost is at private expense, what you have on the OTHER >side if the stone you purchased to mount it to is up to you. You may >wish to try to order it again. You can find the information here: > > http://www.cem.va.gov/hm.htm > >Ernie > >At 07:32 PM 03/24/2002 -0500, you wrote: >>Several years ago I tried to get a bronze plaque for my Grandfather's >>grave from the Veteran's Administration showing his service in the Navy >>during World War I. In short, I was refused because I told the truth about >>him already having a private stone which only shows his name and years of >>birth and death. Now, I know that their policy was only to give out stones >>to veterans who would go unmarked and I support that, but if you stand at >>his grave and look in any direction you can see tens if not hundreds of >>bronze plaques mounted on, near or close to their private headstones. My >>question was at the time, how did they do this and why can't I. I am sure >>that not all of the veterans here and millions more across the country did >>not have a private stone when they ordered their veterans stone or plaque. >>In fact, some of them had to be there because they are even glued to the >>back of private stones. >>Now, how do you do this? Well, you lie and you say that you don't have a >>stone or easier yet you get the undertaker to lie for you, (they do that >>you know), because at the time you are probably grieving and he is >>handling it all for a fee including the payment from the County Auditor to >>set the government stone or plaque. Or if you want to be really good, you >>order the government stone first and then you don't have to lie when it >>asks you if you already have a private stone and then of course the >>private stone gets there first because it takes forever to get one from >>the government. >>Anyway, my point is that it is done everywhere, all across this nation. >>Just count the number of bronze plaques alongside private stones that are >>placed in your city cemetery next Memorial Day. All illegally provided at >>taxpayer's expense. They have a wonderful business going on somewhere, >>from the monument company contracted with the government to the >>undertakers, all the way down to the County Auditor who passes out the >>money for setting the stone. And don't get me wrong, I think that any >>veteran is entitled to one, if not two, but after many years of letter >>writing back and forth to the Veteran's Administration about this, which >>also included a letter to Sen. Dick Lugar, who by the way was a close and >>personal friend of my grandfather's, I finally got an answer from the >>Veteran's Administration on how to obtain a government plaque, which for >>all practical purposes says, YOU LIE!! At one point, I even corresponded >>with a TV news magazine about the problem, wanting to bust the whole thing >>open, but there is no one that is going to take on the veterans of this >>country and I don't blame them. >>But, in the meantime, because I am honest my grandfather's grave does not >>have a bronze plaque. O.K., I was satisfied with that until now. >>Effective January 1, 2002 for all new burials of veterans with a private >>stone, a government stone or plaque will also be provided. Yea! See the >>Veterans Administration website. I can only think that I had something to >>do with that. Yeah, right. But, what about the veterans that died prior to >>this that did not get a government stone? Are they entitled to less? What >>they did was cover their own tracks because they knew for years that what >>was going on was illegal, but they hated to lose that stone business so >>they made it legal. And, of course, at taxpayer's expense. >>Well, unless I have my grandfather reinterred somewhere, steal his stone >>or become really dishonest and lie to the Veteran's Administration my >>grandfather will not have a bronze plaque like everyone else to denote his >>military service. I just thought it would kind of be nice. Bureaucracy at >>its finest! >>Jon Andrews >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. >> >> >>==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >>To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of >>"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com >> or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version) >> > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >Please do not send queries through this list. > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Several years ago I tried to get a bronze plaque for my Grandfather's grave from the Veteran's Administration showing his service in the Navy during World War I. In short, I was refused because I told the truth about him already having a private stone which only shows his name and years of birth and death. Now, I know that their policy was only to give out stones to veterans who would go unmarked and I support that, but if you stand at his grave and look in any direction you can see tens if not hundreds of bronze plaques mounted on, near or close to their private headstones. My question was at the time, how did they do this and why can't I. I am sure that not all of the veterans here and millions more across the country did not have a private stone when they ordered their veterans stone or plaque. In fact, some of them had to be there because they are even glued to the back of private stones. Now, how do you do this? Well, you lie and you say that you don't have a stone or easier yet you get the undertaker to lie for you, (they do that you know), because at the time you are probably grieving and he is handling it all for a fee including the payment from the County Auditor to set the government stone or plaque. Or if you want to be really good, you order the government stone first and then you don't have to lie when it asks you if you already have a private stone and then of course the private stone gets there first because it takes forever to get one from the government. Anyway, my point is that it is done everywhere, all across this nation. Just count the number of bronze plaques alongside private stones that are placed in your city cemetery next Memorial Day. All illegally provided at taxpayer's expense. They have a wonderful business going on somewhere, from the monument company contracted with the government to the undertakers, all the way down to the County Auditor who passes out the money for setting the stone. And don't get me wrong, I think that any veteran is entitled to one, if not two, but after many years of letter writing back and forth to the Veteran's Administration about this, which also included a letter to Sen. Dick Lugar, who by the way was a close and personal friend of my grandfather's, I finally got an answer from the Veteran's Administration on how to obtain a government plaque, which for all practical purposes says, YOU LIE!! At one point, I even corresponded with a TV news magazine about the problem, wanting to bust the whole thing open, but there is no one that is going to take on the veterans of this country and I don't blame them. But, in the meantime, because I am honest my grandfather's grave does not have a bronze plaque. O.K., I was satisfied with that until now. Effective January 1, 2002 for all new burials of veterans with a private stone, a government stone or plaque will also be provided. Yea! See the Veterans Administration website. I can only think that I had something to do with that. Yeah, right. But, what about the veterans that died prior to this that did not get a government stone? Are they entitled to less? What they did was cover their own tracks because they knew for years that what was going on was illegal, but they hated to lose that stone business so they made it legal. And, of course, at taxpayer's expense. Well, unless I have my grandfather reinterred somewhere, steal his stone or become really dishonest and lie to the Veteran's Administration my grandfather will not have a bronze plaque like everyone else to denote his military service. I just thought it would kind of be nice. Bureaucracy at its finest! Jon Andrews _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Jon, Most of the bronze markers in this area are ordered BEFORE the private marker is in place. You must have something to mount the bronze marker to, so they order the granite (or other) stone to mount it to, then have the other side engraved. The rules read: "Arrangements for setting a Government-furnished headstone or marker in a private cemetery are the applicant's responsibility and all placement costs are at private expense." Since the placement cost is at private expense, what you have on the OTHER side if the stone you purchased to mount it to is up to you. You may wish to try to order it again. You can find the information here: http://www.cem.va.gov/hm.htm Ernie At 07:32 PM 03/24/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Several years ago I tried to get a bronze plaque for my Grandfather's >grave from the Veteran's Administration showing his service in the Navy >during World War I. In short, I was refused because I told the truth about >him already having a private stone which only shows his name and years of >birth and death. Now, I know that their policy was only to give out stones >to veterans who would go unmarked and I support that, but if you stand at >his grave and look in any direction you can see tens if not hundreds of >bronze plaques mounted on, near or close to their private headstones. My >question was at the time, how did they do this and why can't I. I am sure >that not all of the veterans here and millions more across the country did >not have a private stone when they ordered their veterans stone or plaque. >In fact, some of them had to be there because they are even glued to the >back of private stones. >Now, how do you do this? Well, you lie and you say that you don't have a >stone or easier yet you get the undertaker to lie for you, (they do that >you know), because at the time you are probably grieving and he is >handling it all for a fee including the payment from the County Auditor to >set the government stone or plaque. Or if you want to be really good, you >order the government stone first and then you don't have to lie when it >asks you if you already have a private stone and then of course the >private stone gets there first because it takes forever to get one from >the government. >Anyway, my point is that it is done everywhere, all across this nation. >Just count the number of bronze plaques alongside private stones that are >placed in your city cemetery next Memorial Day. All illegally provided at >taxpayer's expense. They have a wonderful business going on somewhere, >from the monument company contracted with the government to the >undertakers, all the way down to the County Auditor who passes out the >money for setting the stone. And don't get me wrong, I think that any >veteran is entitled to one, if not two, but after many years of letter >writing back and forth to the Veteran's Administration about this, which >also included a letter to Sen. Dick Lugar, who by the way was a close and >personal friend of my grandfather's, I finally got an answer from the >Veteran's Administration on how to obtain a government plaque, which for >all practical purposes says, YOU LIE!! At one point, I even corresponded >with a TV news magazine about the problem, wanting to bust the whole thing >open, but there is no one that is going to take on the veterans of this >country and I don't blame them. >But, in the meantime, because I am honest my grandfather's grave does not >have a bronze plaque. O.K., I was satisfied with that until now. >Effective January 1, 2002 for all new burials of veterans with a private >stone, a government stone or plaque will also be provided. Yea! See the >Veterans Administration website. I can only think that I had something to >do with that. Yeah, right. But, what about the veterans that died prior to >this that did not get a government stone? Are they entitled to less? What >they did was cover their own tracks because they knew for years that what >was going on was illegal, but they hated to lose that stone business so >they made it legal. And, of course, at taxpayer's expense. >Well, unless I have my grandfather reinterred somewhere, steal his stone >or become really dishonest and lie to the Veteran's Administration my >grandfather will not have a bronze plaque like everyone else to denote his >military service. I just thought it would kind of be nice. Bureaucracy at >its finest! >Jon Andrews > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of >"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version) >

Donna Can I post you Cemetery workshop notice to the Rush Co. list? or I can froward the one to INPCRP list. There might be some one on the list that does not get the INPCRP list mailings Thanks Diana in Rush Co.

Cemetery News Release The newly formed Henry County Cemetery Commission has planned to conduct a Cemetery Preservation Workshop, funded by the town of Dunrieth, to be held Saturday May 11th beginning at 9 am. until about 4 p.m. Cemetery Restorationist John Walters of Fayette County will conduct the workshop. Walters was hired as the state's only cemetery restoration specialist in August 1996 and his work has yielded impressive results. Walters will be demonstrating restoration techniques with a hands-on workshop located in the Dunreith Cemetery and the Dunreith Community Building. Volunteers urged to attend the workshop, then assist in an all day effort to restore stones in this cemetery. (The Dunrieth Volunteer Fire Department will be hosting a free will offering lunch, which will be hamburgers and hot dogs, with proceeds of lunch going toward their fundraising efforts to obtain a new fire truck for the Town of Dunrieth.) The Dunreith Cemetery is located adjacent to the Penn-Central Railroad tracks and US 40 (Old National Road) on the southwest edge of the town of Dunreith on section 32 of Spiceland Township, Henry County. The town was originally known as Crum’s Spring, then as Coffin’ Station. The name was changed to Dunreith in 1866 in honor of Emory Dunreith Coffin (1824-1863), a pioneer merchant of the community. The Cemetery is immediately north of a grove of trees where the old Buck Creek Christian Church once stood. The church was founded in 1838 and occupied the site until the present church (renamed Dunreith Church) was erected in 1909. Many of the individuals buried in the Dunreith Cemetery were members of the old Buck Creek Church. The Friends also had a meetinghouse in Dunreith from1867 until 1932 and no doubt several members of the old meeting are buried in the Cemetery. Since Dunreith is located along the National Road, a number of burials are of non-local origin. The first burial took place in 1834 and the last marked burial in 1939 and the last unmarked burial in about 1962. The church that is located there now is the Liberty Baptist Church. The cemetery is now in fairly good condition as it is maintained by the town, but in need of some restoration due to the deterioration of the stones. Several stones were extensively damaged January 1, 1968, at the time of the costly train wreck, explosion and fire in Dunreith. A total of 172 burials were recorded in the Dunreith Cemetery, 80 of which died before reached the age of 28. Joseph W. Abrams, Pendleton Bullen, J.A. Crickmore, Thomas J. Johnson, Dallas Lawson, and C.H.G. Moore, all veterans of the Civil War, are also buried in the Cemetery. The cemetery commission has been developed similar to those of other counties in Indiana. Donations for this cemetery, as well as others in Henry County may be made to the Henry County Auditor, Pioneer Cemetery Fund. Please specify if you wish the money to go toward a certain cemetery. At this time, all preservation projects rely on donations, and are also tax deductible. Other cemeteries that the Commission plans to focus on restoration project this year include Wisehart Cemetery and Messick Cemetery. The restoration project is part of statewide efforts to form such commissions, The Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project (INPCRP) and the DNR efforts to locate and restore such sites. Ulysses (Bud) Bush and Donna Tauber recently succeeded in gaining national recognition for the new commission when they were featured in a news article for the need for these cemetery restorations in The New York Times on December 24th of last year.

As the president of a newly formed Cemetery Commission here in Indiana, I have recently completed our necessary by-laws. Does anyone have suggestions for a brief 'mission statement?' Has there been yet a 'support group' or an Alliance yet formed for the Indiana Cemetery Commissions to work together and share ideas? Donna Tauber

Jane, Thanks for the information, it is appreciated. -----Original Message----- From: Misyjane15@aol.com To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:12 EST Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Re: Patrick Logan > A reply for the location of Little Flatrock Cemetery. My Rush County > road map > shows a Little Flatrock Cemetery in Noble Township, Section 13 just > south of > the Little Flatrock River. Looks like it is on the West side of County > Road > 450 E, about half way between County Roads 200 S and 300 S. My map > indicates > there is a church there also. The map shows three other unnamed > cemeteries in > the same area. My 2000 plat books shows the land owned by Cecil and > Mary > Spilman. Hope this helps find Patrick Logan. > Jane Kesslar > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Please do not send queries through this list. > >

A reply for the location of Little Flatrock Cemetery. My Rush County road map shows a Little Flatrock Cemetery in Noble Township, Section 13 just south of the Little Flatrock River. Looks like it is on the West side of County Road 450 E, about half way between County Roads 200 S and 300 S. My map indicates there is a church there also. The map shows three other unnamed cemeteries in the same area. My 2000 plat books shows the land owned by Cecil and Mary Spilman. Hope this helps find Patrick Logan. Jane Kesslar

See if this works, I think it should allow you to see the article. Cris Restoring cemeteries Web Posted Wednesday, March 20, 2002 HTTP://www.therepublic.com/main.asp?SectionID=11&SubSectionID=83&ArticleID=34943

Very nice, Cris. Hope you get lots of response - help and otherwise. Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine West" <cherokee@shelbynet.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:03 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Columbus Article > See if this works, I think it should allow you to see the article. > > Cris > > Restoring cemeteries > > Web Posted Wednesday, March 20, 2002 > HTTP://www.therepublic.com/main.asp?SectionID=11&SubSectionID=83&ArticleID=3 4943 > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- > "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families > are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is > undisguised. This is a cemetery. > "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, > historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. > "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved > in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - > not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family > memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. > "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of > yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery > exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." > --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA > >

Local news articles on the incident: http://www.wpta.com/morenews/#2 http://www.msnbc.com/local/wkjg/M161070.asp http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/news/local/2891907.htm http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/news/2891010.htm -----Original Message----- From: Brad Renno [mailto:papabear@fwi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:42 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism Yes, the monument of two veterans was toppled in one blow because my uncle Don Renno, U.S. Army Company E, 333d Infantry, 84th Infantry Division who was killed 9 Apr 1945 (Germany surrendered less that a month later on 7 May 1945) in Weetzen, Germany while advancing on Hanover, and his younger brother, my uncle Glenn, S1 U.S. Navy, are buried at the same monument. At least one other stone of a veteran was knocked over as I have a photo of it: http://www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/Vandalism /DSCN1062.JPG I believe I saw a couple more with military markings that I did not photograph. I will be stopping back to check on repair progress tomorrow and will find out more of what the New Haven P.D. said they were going to do and then visit the police station to let them know (politely of course) that somebody is following the investigation. It should be an interesting trip as I have dealt with them on a hit and run to my vehicle in their jurisdiction some fifteen years back, but that would be really getting off topic! Brad Renno -----Original Message----- From: Sue Silver [mailto:ssilver1951@jps.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:11 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism Were there any veterans monuments vandalized? You said your uncle died in World War II, and his stone was toppled/damaged? Why don't you get together with the trustees and the local veterans organizations and put out a reward for this [I can't print it]'s? Why did the police refuse to dust the stone for fingerprints? It's an ideal material, especially if there were any polished faces on the stones. I don't get it. WHY won't the POLICE pursue these acts for the abhorrent deeds they are?? Sue Silver California ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Renno" <papabear@fwi.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the > paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the > cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this message > from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was > informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under the > email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate > message when it arrives, opps. > > Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the righting of > the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to school > with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was upended, > said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds and > one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the police if > they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would not. > > I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least two > people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big one > I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row. There > were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I volunteered > to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down as > they were worried about liability. > > Brad Renno > > -----Original Message----- > From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery > Vandalism > > > One hundred sixty stones? > That's not a prank. That's a crime. > It is a crime, isn't it? > > One hundred sixty stones? > That was a huge task. > How long does that take? > How many breaks did they need? > Do they work that hard at their day jobs? > Or in school? > > One hundred sixty stones? > The enormity stuns me. > How many people does that take? > No footprints? > No fingerprints? > No witnesses? > No injuries? > > One hundred sixty stones? > I don't understand. > Where is the guidance? > The sense of right or wrong? > Are they troubled? > Or are they stupid? > > Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals? > What - EXACTLY - is the cost? > When - EXACTLY - will it end? > Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors? > > One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get themselves > seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear the > cries of the parents now..... > "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!" > > One hundred sixty stones. > I don't understand. > > Debra Dougherty > Martinsville, IN > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@insightbb.com> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM > Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not > > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help > > subscribing, just let me know. > > Lois > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brad Renno" <brad@renno.org> > > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM > > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County, > > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones > were > > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and > found > > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees > > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of > those > > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and little > > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to > > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they > had > > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse. > I > > > posted photos of the damage at > > > www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm. > > If > > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to > type > > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org. > > > > > > Brad Renno > > > brad@renno.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite. > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.

Yes, the monument of two veterans was toppled in one blow because my uncle Don Renno, U.S. Army Company E, 333d Infantry, 84th Infantry Division who was killed 9 Apr 1945 (Germany surrendered less that a month later on 7 May 1945) in Weetzen, Germany while advancing on Hanover, and his younger brother, my uncle Glenn, S1 U.S. Navy, are buried at the same monument. At least one other stone of a veteran was knocked over as I have a photo of it: http://www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/Vandalism /DSCN1062.JPG I believe I saw a couple more with military markings that I did not photograph. I will be stopping back to check on repair progress tomorrow and will find out more of what the New Haven P.D. said they were going to do and then visit the police station to let them know (politely of course) that somebody is following the investigation. It should be an interesting trip as I have dealt with them on a hit and run to my vehicle in their jurisdiction some fifteen years back, but that would be really getting off topic! Brad Renno -----Original Message----- From: Sue Silver [mailto:ssilver1951@jps.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:11 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism Were there any veterans monuments vandalized? You said your uncle died in World War II, and his stone was toppled/damaged? Why don't you get together with the trustees and the local veterans organizations and put out a reward for this [I can't print it]'s? Why did the police refuse to dust the stone for fingerprints? It's an ideal material, especially if there were any polished faces on the stones. I don't get it. WHY won't the POLICE pursue these acts for the abhorrent deeds they are?? Sue Silver California ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Renno" <papabear@fwi.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the > paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the > cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this message > from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was > informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under the > email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate > message when it arrives, opps. > > Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the righting of > the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to school > with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was upended, > said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds and > one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the police if > they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would not. > > I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least two > people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big one > I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row. There > were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I volunteered > to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down as > they were worried about liability. > > Brad Renno > > -----Original Message----- > From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery > Vandalism > > > One hundred sixty stones? > That's not a prank. That's a crime. > It is a crime, isn't it? > > One hundred sixty stones? > That was a huge task. > How long does that take? > How many breaks did they need? > Do they work that hard at their day jobs? > Or in school? > > One hundred sixty stones? > The enormity stuns me. > How many people does that take? > No footprints? > No fingerprints? > No witnesses? > No injuries? > > One hundred sixty stones? > I don't understand. > Where is the guidance? > The sense of right or wrong? > Are they troubled? > Or are they stupid? > > Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals? > What - EXACTLY - is the cost? > When - EXACTLY - will it end? > Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors? > > One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get themselves > seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear the > cries of the parents now..... > "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!" > > One hundred sixty stones. > I don't understand. > > Debra Dougherty > Martinsville, IN > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@insightbb.com> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM > Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not > > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help > > subscribing, just let me know. > > Lois > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brad Renno" <brad@renno.org> > > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM > > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County, > > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones > were > > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and > found > > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees > > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of > those > > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and little > > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to > > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they > had > > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse. > I > > > posted photos of the damage at > > > www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm. > > If > > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to > type > > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org. > > > > > > Brad Renno > > > brad@renno.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite. > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net.

Not disagreeing, but just thought I would add my personal experience. Several years back a homeless man broke in our Florida vacation house and set up shop, living there for several days. He was later arrested on another crime and tied to my house and convicted of burglary from his fingerprint which was lifted from a Kool-aid package that he had used from my kitchen cabinet. The Kool-aid package was pulled from my garbage and was pretty nasty, I do say. The process that was used is as old as the hills in criminology. They placed the package containing the print in a bell jar and injected the fumes from a substance similar to super-glue which enhances the print off of the package. Just like on TV. Results were, without a doubt, his print. His defense was of course that he might have touched that Kool-aid in the local grocery and then I, by chance, bought it and carried it into my house. The only problem was that the Kool-aid was bought in Indiana, which blew their case right out of the water. My point, which I agree has nothing much to do with cemeteries, is law enforcement can, if they are willing and smart enough (and I stress smart enough), to find the culprit in most any crime. But first, they have to be interested enough to go look and then go to any extreme to find enough evidence to convict them. In this case, I will admit we were lucky to have experienced investigators. But, you wonder how many cases go untouched, because of the old line, "We probably won't find them anyway" or "they won't do anything to them if they catch them." It has become an excepted way of life. My favorite is, "I don't get paid enough for this." ---THEN GET ANOTHER JOB AND LET SOMEBODY ELSE DO IT! Back to cemeteries..... We had a very similar case not long ago in Vincennes City Cemetery where at least 60 + stones were vandalized. In the end, the girl and two male friends responsible were turned in to authorities by her own mother after somebody talked to much around the dinner table. Let's hear it for Mom! Chances are that somebody will let it slip about this incident. Jon Andrews >From: Geography Department <geogdept@iupui.edu> >Reply-To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery >Vandalism >Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:21:23 -0500 > >It's possible that the stones would not take a fingerprint. The surface has >to be >fairly smooth with no dust or other smudges on it to get a good print. I >know on TV >and in the movies it seems like they can fingerprint anything (and in some >cases >they MIGHT be able to lift prints from some pretty exotic places) but the >equipment >that would be needed would be fairly expensive and most local police >departments >wouldn't have access to that sort of thing. Even the FBI might not be able >to do. >A week or so ago on The District they talked about lifting a really good >print off >of a ball point pen that had been thrown into the trash and then into a >dumpster >that was full of really yucky garbage. The response to that should be >"Yeah, >right." When my garage was broken into, the police officer that came to >take the >report said that they wouldn't be able to get prints if even a little bit >of dust >was present. >Joyce Haibe > >Brad Renno wrote: > > > I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the > > paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the > > cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this >message > > from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was > > informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under >the > > email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate > > message when it arrives, opps. > > > > Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the >righting of > > the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to >school > > with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was >upended, > > said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds >and > > one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the >police if > > they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would >not. > > > > I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least >two > > people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big >one > > I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row. >There > > were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I >volunteered > > to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down >as > > they were worried about liability. > > > > Brad Renno > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM > > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery > > Vandalism > > > > One hundred sixty stones? > > That's not a prank. That's a crime. > > It is a crime, isn't it? > > > > One hundred sixty stones? > > That was a huge task. > > How long does that take? > > How many breaks did they need? > > Do they work that hard at their day jobs? > > Or in school? > > > > One hundred sixty stones? > > The enormity stuns me. > > How many people does that take? > > No footprints? > > No fingerprints? > > No witnesses? > > No injuries? > > > > One hundred sixty stones? > > I don't understand. > > Where is the guidance? > > The sense of right or wrong? > > Are they troubled? > > Or are they stupid? > > > > Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals? > > What - EXACTLY - is the cost? > > When - EXACTLY - will it end? > > Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors? > > > > One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get >themselves > > seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear >the > > cries of the parents now..... > > "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!" > > > > One hundred sixty stones. > > I don't understand. > > > > Debra Dougherty > > Martinsville, IN > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@insightbb.com> > > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM > > Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery >Vandalism > > > > > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is >not > > > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help > > > subscribing, just let me know. > > > Lois > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Brad Renno" <brad@renno.org> > > > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM > > > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen >County, > > > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones > > were > > > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and > > found > > > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees > > > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of > > those > > > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and >little > > > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to > > > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If >they > > had > > > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much >worse. > > I > > > > posted photos of the damage at > > > > >www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm. > > > If > > > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have >to > > type > > > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org. > > > > > > > > Brad Renno > > > > brad@renno.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > > > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite. > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to >LoisMauk@usa.net. > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

It's possible that the stones would not take a fingerprint. The surface has to be fairly smooth with no dust or other smudges on it to get a good print. I know on TV and in the movies it seems like they can fingerprint anything (and in some cases they MIGHT be able to lift prints from some pretty exotic places) but the equipment that would be needed would be fairly expensive and most local police departments wouldn't have access to that sort of thing. Even the FBI might not be able to do. A week or so ago on The District they talked about lifting a really good print off of a ball point pen that had been thrown into the trash and then into a dumpster that was full of really yucky garbage. The response to that should be "Yeah, right." When my garage was broken into, the police officer that came to take the report said that they wouldn't be able to get prints if even a little bit of dust was present. Joyce Haibe Brad Renno wrote: > I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the > paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the > cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this message > from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was > informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under the > email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate > message when it arrives, opps. > > Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the righting of > the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to school > with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was upended, > said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds and > one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the police if > they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would not. > > I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least two > people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big one > I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row. There > were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I volunteered > to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down as > they were worried about liability. > > Brad Renno > > -----Original Message----- > From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery > Vandalism > > One hundred sixty stones? > That's not a prank. That's a crime. > It is a crime, isn't it? > > One hundred sixty stones? > That was a huge task. > How long does that take? > How many breaks did they need? > Do they work that hard at their day jobs? > Or in school? > > One hundred sixty stones? > The enormity stuns me. > How many people does that take? > No footprints? > No fingerprints? > No witnesses? > No injuries? > > One hundred sixty stones? > I don't understand. > Where is the guidance? > The sense of right or wrong? > Are they troubled? > Or are they stupid? > > Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals? > What - EXACTLY - is the cost? > When - EXACTLY - will it end? > Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors? > > One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get themselves > seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear the > cries of the parents now..... > "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!" > > One hundred sixty stones. > I don't understand. > > Debra Dougherty > Martinsville, IN > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@insightbb.com> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM > Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not > > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help > > subscribing, just let me know. > > Lois > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brad Renno" <brad@renno.org> > > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM > > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County, > > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones > were > > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and > found > > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees > > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of > those > > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and little > > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to > > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they > had > > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse. > I > > > posted photos of the damage at > > > www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm. > > If > > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to > type > > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org. > > > > > > Brad Renno > > > brad@renno.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite. > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net.

I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this message from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under the email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate message when it arrives, opps. Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the righting of the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to school with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was upended, said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds and one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the police if they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would not. I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least two people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big one I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row. There were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I volunteered to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down as they were worried about liability. Brad Renno -----Original Message----- From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism One hundred sixty stones? That's not a prank. That's a crime. It is a crime, isn't it? One hundred sixty stones? That was a huge task. How long does that take? How many breaks did they need? Do they work that hard at their day jobs? Or in school? One hundred sixty stones? The enormity stuns me. How many people does that take? No footprints? No fingerprints? No witnesses? No injuries? One hundred sixty stones? I don't understand. Where is the guidance? The sense of right or wrong? Are they troubled? Or are they stupid? Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals? What - EXACTLY - is the cost? When - EXACTLY - will it end? Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors? One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get themselves seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear the cries of the parents now..... "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!" One hundred sixty stones. I don't understand. Debra Dougherty Martinsville, IN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@insightbb.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help > subscribing, just let me know. > Lois > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Renno" <brad@renno.org> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > Hi, > > > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County, > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones were > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and found > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of those > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and little > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they had > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse. I > > posted photos of the damage at > > www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm. > If > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to type > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org. > > > > Brad Renno > > brad@renno.org > > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.

Were there any veterans monuments vandalized? You said your uncle died in World War II, and his stone was toppled/damaged? Why don't you get together with the trustees and the local veterans organizations and put out a reward for this [I can't print it]'s? Why did the police refuse to dust the stone for fingerprints? It's an ideal material, especially if there were any polished faces on the stones. I don't get it. WHY won't the POLICE pursue these acts for the abhorrent deeds they are?? Sue Silver California ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Renno" <papabear@fwi.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the > paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the > cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this message > from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was > informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under the > email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate > message when it arrives, opps. > > Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the righting of > the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to school > with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was upended, > said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds and > one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the police if > they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would not. > > I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least two > people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big one > I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row. There > were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I volunteered > to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down as > they were worried about liability. > > Brad Renno > > -----Original Message----- > From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery > Vandalism > > > One hundred sixty stones? > That's not a prank. That's a crime. > It is a crime, isn't it? > > One hundred sixty stones? > That was a huge task. > How long does that take? > How many breaks did they need? > Do they work that hard at their day jobs? > Or in school? > > One hundred sixty stones? > The enormity stuns me. > How many people does that take? > No footprints? > No fingerprints? > No witnesses? > No injuries? > > One hundred sixty stones? > I don't understand. > Where is the guidance? > The sense of right or wrong? > Are they troubled? > Or are they stupid? > > Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals? > What - EXACTLY - is the cost? > When - EXACTLY - will it end? > Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors? > > One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get themselves > seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear the > cries of the parents now..... > "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!" > > One hundred sixty stones. > I don't understand. > > Debra Dougherty > Martinsville, IN > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@insightbb.com> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM > Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not > > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help > > subscribing, just let me know. > > Lois > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brad Renno" <brad@renno.org> > > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM > > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County, > > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones > were > > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and > found > > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees > > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of > those > > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and little > > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to > > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they > had > > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse. > I > > > posted photos of the damage at > > > www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm. > > If > > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to > type > > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org. > > > > > > Brad Renno > > > brad@renno.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite. > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk@usa.net. > >

One hundred sixty stones? That's not a prank. That's a crime. It is a crime, isn't it? One hundred sixty stones? That was a huge task. How long does that take? How many breaks did they need? Do they work that hard at their day jobs? Or in school? One hundred sixty stones? The enormity stuns me. How many people does that take? No footprints? No fingerprints? No witnesses? No injuries? One hundred sixty stones? I don't understand. Where is the guidance? The sense of right or wrong? Are they troubled? Or are they stupid? Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals? What - EXACTLY - is the cost? When - EXACTLY - will it end? Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors? One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get themselves seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear the cries of the parents now..... "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!" One hundred sixty stones. I don't understand. Debra Dougherty Martinsville, IN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk@insightbb.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help > subscribing, just let me know. > Lois > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Renno" <brad@renno.org> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > > > > Hi, > > > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County, > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones were > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and found > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of those > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and little > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they had > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse. I > > posted photos of the damage at > > www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm. > If > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to type > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org. > > > > Brad Renno > > brad@renno.org > > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > >

Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help subscribing, just let me know. Lois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Renno" <brad@renno.org> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism > Hi, > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County, > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones were > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and found > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of those > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and little > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they had > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse. I > posted photos of the damage at > www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm. If > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to type > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org. > > Brad Renno > brad@renno.org > > > >

I have have this, if you are interested in additional info e-mail me at dtauber@kiva.net History of Rush County Indiana 1888 Brant & Fuller Chicago Thomas Logan is a native of Rush County, Indiana, born May 19, 1827, second child born to James L and Elizabeth (Mann) Logan, natives of Ireland and Ohio. The former died August 13, 1881, and the latter June 13, 1880. The subject of this sketch received a limited education and was raised on the farm. In 1847, he removed to Des Moines County, Iowa, and settled on a farm and here remained seventeen years, when he returned to Rush county, and soon afterward settled on the farm he now owns, and which contains 160 acres of good land. Mr. Logan was married August 30, 1847, to Miss Sarah Lefforge, born in Noble Township, November 22, 1829, daughter of John and Harriet (Herndon) Lefforge natives of New Jersey and Virginia. To this union were born twelve children viz; Elizabeth J, born 1849, John N, born 1850, Harriet A, born 1852, Mary E, born 1855, Emisetta, born, 1856, Charlotta A, born 1858, Laura C, born 1861, Charles B, born 1865, James T, born 1867, Myrtle M, born 1869, Omer D, born 1870 (deceased) and Mattie, born 1873. Politically, he is a Democrat, and he and wife are members of the Baptist Church. Stephen Franklin wrote: > Susan, > > Besides the USGenweb page, is that where you looked for the cemetery? > I'm also fforwarding this email onto the Indiana Cemetery Preservation Project to see if anyone knows of this cemtery > location. I hope they will reply to me as well. > > I check with the findagrave link to locate a cemetery and the only one with that name it picked up in Barthlomew County. > I checked with our SAR CDROM War Graves and it only lists the cemetery but not the township it is in. If someone there in Rush County on the group has a section map it may list the cemetery. > > NAME OF CEMETERY > (LITTLE) FLAT ROCK > > COUNTY OF CEMETERY > RUSH > > LOCATION DESCRIPTION > NOBLE TWP. > > REMARKS > SEE FLAT ROCK > > CALL NUMBER "1" > G 977.201 R952d > > CALL NUMBER "2" > G 977.201 R952i > > > Hope this helps it comes from the Indiana State Genealogical Division: ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED!! > > Stephen D Franklin > South District Director > Indiana Society > Sons of the American Revolution > > http://www.geocities.com/inssar-south > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: SusanALogan@aol.com > To: daniel@iglou.com > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:01 AM > Subject: Patrick Logan > > Patrick Logan was born 6May 1752 in Ireland but came to Penn. and fought in the Rev. War several times from Penn and also from Virginia in Moore's co 4th Batallion Chester county and also in Brandywine. He eventaully came to Indiana and died 17 Jan 1828 and was buried in Flat Rock Church Cemetery in Rushville, > Rush, Indiana. Information has no listing for the cemetery. The public library said it doesnt exist. They gave me supposedly the Flat Rock Christian Church 765-932-4900 but I ended up on someone answering #765-932-5211 and I left a message. > > I was hoping to find some records at the time of death that would give me a clue as to where he was born in Ireland and who his parents may have been. I am new to the search and I know somewhere there must be records but I am a novice as to how to access them. Can you help? > > Thank you > Susan Logan > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)