Mark Davis do you have a new address trying to e-mail you and it flys back at me . Contact me personal when every your avaible.. Mae Garrett

Great job, Jack! Thanks!! Brad -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [INPCRP] Another Cemetery Survived in Floyd Co. Jeannie, I attended the planning comm. meeting last night. I spoke for 10 minutes. After the meeting the developer wanted your phone number so he can adhere to the Present Laws. He and I spoke after the meeting and he is preserving the cemetery. There will be access, as well as a fence. The access will be on the wastewater treatment rd, with a walking path that will conform to the Americans With Disabilities Act. In my talk, I suggested a couple of parking places for visitors, since parking in the tract will be off rd. and they have set aside appx. 2 acres for waste and the cemetery area. I suggested they had room. I came away satisfied. Don Thineman, The Developer will call you, he wants to know if they have to file a plan before any dirt is turned, or wait untill they get to the treatment plant, which will be 75 feet from the cemetery. I did not know the answer last night. Thanks for your quick response to my E-mail Sunday night. I appreciate having someone respond quickly when it is needed. Thanks again, ONE MORE CEMETERY SURVIVED!! [email protected] Jack E. Briles Sr. Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812)282-6585 ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > http://www.inpcrp.org

Jeannie, I attended the planning comm. meeting last night. I spoke for 10 minutes. After the meeting the developer wanted your phone number so he can adhere to the Present Laws. He and I spoke after the meeting and he is preserving the cemetery. There will be access, as well as a fence. The access will be on the wastewater treatment rd, with a walking path that will conform to the Americans With Disabilities Act. In my talk, I suggested a couple of parking places for visitors, since parking in the tract will be off rd. and they have set aside appx. 2 acres for waste and the cemetery area. I suggested they had room. I came away satisfied. Don Thineman, The Developer will call you, he wants to know if they have to file a plan before any dirt is turned, or wait untill they get to the treatment plant, which will be 75 feet from the cemetery. I did not know the answer last night. Thanks for your quick response to my E-mail Sunday night. I appreciate having someone respond quickly when it is needed. Thanks again, ONE MORE CEMETERY SURVIVED!! [email protected] Jack E. Briles Sr. Po Box 444 New Albany, In. 47151-0444 (812)282-6585

Great leadership, Jack! Maybe you can talk the developer into doing a really nice sign for the cemetery and include mention of the "good folks with the INPCRP"! Sue Silver CA ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:13 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Another Cemetery Survived in Floyd Co. > > Jeannie, > I attended the planning comm. meeting last night. I spoke for 10 minutes. > After the meeting the developer wanted your phone number so he can adhere to > the Present Laws. He and I spoke after the meeting and he is preserving the > cemetery. There will be access, as well as a fence. The access will be on the > wastewater treatment rd, with a walking path that will conform to the Americans > With Disabilities Act. In my talk, I suggested a couple of parking places for > visitors, since parking in the tract will be off rd. and they have set aside > appx. 2 acres for waste and the cemetery area. I suggested they had room. > I came away satisfied. Don Thineman, The Developer will call you, he > wants to know if they have to file a plan before any dirt is turned, or wait > untill they get to the treatment plant, which will be 75 feet from the > cemetery. I did not know the answer last night. Thanks for your quick response to my > E-mail Sunday night. I appreciate having someone respond quickly when it is > needed. Thanks again, ONE MORE CEMETERY SURVIVED!! > > [email protected] > Jack E. Briles Sr. > Po Box 444 > New Albany, In. 47151-0444 > (812)282-6585 > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > http://www.inpcrp.org >

Hi J, I am Tom Cannon the trustee in New Albany Township Floyd County. We have a company logging next to a grave yard with approximently 300 graves on four acres. The County approved the logging and I submitted the survey to show the lines and it was all approved. Now, however the bulldozers have begun widening the wagon road threw the woods boardering one side of the 4 acres. We know some buriels occurred outside the survey lines on another side of the property but not where tyhe road is being widened. I would like a conservation officer to accompany me out there to observe the action now in progress. Can you please advise. 812-948-5498 Tom

Jack, I have a logging company right next to the Colored Peoples Cemetery widening the little road that runs by there. What is the procedure for halting this temporarily? We could use this to test the law and educate the judges if you want give me a call. I do not think the ground is in danger but it is within one hundred foot of the 300 graves up there..If you got time give me a call. Tom

Hi...... I have used this line of defense in maintaining access to my mother's real estate. Just a brief warning........my case has been in court for 2-1/2 years and is going for bench trial next month !! I'm sure that it depends on the location,defendants, judge, etc. as far as the expediency of such an effort, but it definitely would seem to be an impossible (and costly) line of defense for access to a cemetery here in Lawrence county !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "tielking" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > Teresa, > I brought this particular item up in I think in March on this list. I read > about this "easement by necessity" in a real estate class. It says that "an > easement by necessity is created by court order based on the principle that > owners have the right to enter and exit their land (the right of ingress and > egress) - they should not be landlocked." > I guess it is how you view this type of easement. Can an easement by > necessity be something we can use to gain access to landlocked cemeteries? > Is it necessary to cross private property to visit ancestors? Is it > necessary to maintain the cemetery? How will the courts view this? We need a > law that addresses the right of ingress and egress when it comes to > cemeteries - plain and simply. I don't see it happening anytime soon, but I > think it will happen. > If anyone has used this line of defense to gain access to a landlocked > cemetery, please respond. > Angela > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Rahn Teresa" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > > > > I have been informed that in regard to cemeteries that are totally > landlocked on private property, access may be gained by a law that refers to > "easement by necessity". > > Does anyone know more about this law? Our family is in a situation with a > cemetery est in 1825 that is totally overgrown and is landlocked within a > wooded isle that sits smack dab in the middle of planted fields. Any help > is appreciated. Thanx. > > > > Teresa > > > > tielking <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Larry, > > > > Checking my e-mail late (again).... > > Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no > > right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom > > Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to > > Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau > > would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that > have > > cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind > > to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the > > West Virginia law. > > We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana > > Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time > > constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev > > Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the > > Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The > > Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House. > > If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15 > > addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified > > cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and > > descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all > > fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery > > classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it > > surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across > > their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap. > > > > > > Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation. > IC > > 35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly, > or > > intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument, > > artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or > Class > > D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are > out > > in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e. > rubbing > > against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I > > personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with > > plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it > > anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly. > > > > The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable > > manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the > earth > > for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is > provided > > in IC 14-21-1-24." > > It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know > > others think differently. > > > > I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth. > > Angela > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stephens, Larry V" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM > > Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > > > > > > > For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from > > reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries: > > > > > > I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on > > private land. > > > > > > > > I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g., > > fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a > > "public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one > > that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that > is > > on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading, > > "public" and does not have to be protected. > > > > > > > > > > > > If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry V. Stephens > > > Office of Risk Management > > > 812-855-9758 > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > > > http://www.inpcrp.org > > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you > have." > > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > Visit the INPCRP on the web at http://www.inpcrp.org > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals." > >

Jack, I want to wish you the best of luck with this. Keep the list informed as to what happens. Sincerely, Angela ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:05 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Thineman Bldrs. - Pioneer Cemetery, Floyd co. > > Jeanie, > Sorry to have to bother you. > We have a Subdivision coming up for vote by the Floyd Co. Zoning Board Monday > night at 6 PM EDT. (Tonight) The lady who is trying to find out something > about the "Girdner' Pioneer cemetery, Dolly Jenkins contacted me to see if I > could find out if they had approval to build around it, and fence it, from The DNR > and the DHPA. The cemetery dating back to 1864 is included in the Plat of 178 > houses on a little over 100 acres. They have the cemetery on the Map, but > they are building the waste water plant next to the cemetery. > The biggest problem is, Have they applied for permission to put the > plant next to the cemetery, and if they haven't, why not. Does the DNR or the > DHPA care about this cemetery enough to ask for a description of what they have > planned? They just announced they were bringing it up this Monday (Again) > They will have a Treatment building and sewage lines all around the > cemetery. Do they have to file a plan as to what they are planning for the > cemetery, since they definitely will be installing lines well within the 100 ft. > zone? Every one down here in Floyd Co. claim to know nothing about the Law until > I bring it up. > If the DNR and the DHPA don't care, I and others may have Pickets > and the Louisville Ky. TV stations, and the Louisville Courier Newspaper > covering the work when they start the building of any kind when they are within 100 > ft of the cemetery, and especially when they start the waste treatment plant. > Lets see if anyone cares, > or does the Law mean nothing. > > Can you check and tell me before 4:30 EDT if they have filed anything, > or if they need to. This is screwed up bad. One of the zoning board members > owns the ground. > I don't care what they build, nor how many, I WORRY ABOUT THE CEMETERY. It's > not the board members family. I don't ask for much, but this needs attention > bad. Hoping to hear one way or another, > Do I have a Leg to stand on. ??? Thank you for at least reading this, Hope > you can get me an answer today. I appreciate your help, and I understand your > position. > > [email protected] > Jack E. Briles Sr. > Po Box 444 > New Albany, In 47151-0444 > (812)282-6585 > > Jack > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals." >

Teresa, I brought this particular item up in I think in March on this list. I read about this "easement by necessity" in a real estate class. It says that "an easement by necessity is created by court order based on the principle that owners have the right to enter and exit their land (the right of ingress and egress) - they should not be landlocked." I guess it is how you view this type of easement. Can an easement by necessity be something we can use to gain access to landlocked cemeteries? Is it necessary to cross private property to visit ancestors? Is it necessary to maintain the cemetery? How will the courts view this? We need a law that addresses the right of ingress and egress when it comes to cemeteries - plain and simply. I don't see it happening anytime soon, but I think it will happen. If anyone has used this line of defense to gain access to a landlocked cemetery, please respond. Angela ---- Original Message ----- From: "Rahn Teresa" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > I have been informed that in regard to cemeteries that are totally landlocked on private property, access may be gained by a law that refers to "easement by necessity". > Does anyone know more about this law? Our family is in a situation with a cemetery est in 1825 that is totally overgrown and is landlocked within a wooded isle that sits smack dab in the middle of planted fields. Any help is appreciated. Thanx. > > Teresa > > tielking <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Larry, > > Checking my e-mail late (again).... > Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no > right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom > Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to > Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau > would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that have > cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind > to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the > West Virginia law. > We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana > Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time > constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev > Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the > Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The > Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House. > If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15 > addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified > cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and > descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all > fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery > classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it > surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across > their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap. > > > Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation. IC > 35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly, or > intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument, > artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or Class > D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are out > in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e. rubbing > against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I > personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with > plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it > anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly. > > The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable > manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the earth > for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is provided > in IC 14-21-1-24." > It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know > others think differently. > > I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth. > Angela > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephens, Larry V" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM > Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > > > > For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from > reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries: > > > > I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on > private land. > > > > > I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g., > fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a > "public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one > that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that is > on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading, > "public" and does not have to be protected. > > > > > > > > If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Larry V. Stephens > > Office of Risk Management > > 812-855-9758 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > > http://www.inpcrp.org > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Visit the INPCRP on the web at http://www.inpcrp.org >

Whoa! Thank you for taking so much time to write all this out. Your advice is sound and noted. Teresa "Paul J. Smith" <[email protected]> wrote: "Easement by necessity" is an old concept in Indiana property law. Unfortunately, to determine whether it applies in your case you will need to consult an attorney who is familiar with the legal concept and probably need title searches. The concept arose to deal with the situation of a landowner who conveyed away part of his property that was landlocked by other property that he retained. The courts implied an easement somewhere across the remainder of his property so the new owner could have access to a road. It had to be a real necessity, not just a convenience. So if one side of the sold property had access to a road, but the side of the sold property that had the barn did not have such access without crossing the property of the previous landowner, too bad. Also, the concept requires that conveyed away land once to have been owned by the same owner of the land across which an easement is sought. That's why a title search will be necessary. The easement, if any, arose out of necessity when the land was sold. So if things changed in the intervening years, too bad, and if the land with the cemetery never had a common owner with the land across which the easement was sought, also too bad. It is said that an easement of "necessity cannot arise against the lands of a stranger." In other words, if an easement of necessity exists, it exists only because of conditions at the time the land was divided for sale and only if the landlocked land and the land across which the easement is sought had common ownership. If the landlocked cemetery is cut off from road access by land that was never owned somewhere up the line by the same person that owned the cemetery land, probably too bad. You'll only figure out who owned what and when by analyzing title searches. To make this even more complicated, easement by necessity cases usually involve disputes between landowners. Presumably the persons seeking access to the landlocked cemeteries are not the owners of the cemetery but rather descendants or relatives or just interested persons concerned about the cemetery. Whether the concept of "easement by necessity" grants them access is far from clear. So, to figure this out you'll need an attorney and title information. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahn Teresa" To: Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > I have been informed that in regard to cemeteries that are totally landlocked on private property, access may be gained by a law that refers to "easement by necessity". > Does anyone know more about this law? Our family is in a situation with a cemetery est in 1825 that is totally overgrown and is landlocked within a wooded isle that sits smack dab in the middle of planted fields. Any help is appreciated. Thanx. > > Teresa > > tielking wrote: > Hi Larry, > > Checking my e-mail late (again).... > Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no > right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom > Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to > Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau > would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that have > cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind > to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the > West Virginia law. > We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana > Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time > constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev > Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the > Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The > Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House. > If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15 > addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified > cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and > descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all > fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery > classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it > surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across > their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap. > > > Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation. IC > 35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly, or > intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument, > artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or Class > D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are out > in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e. rubbing > against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I > personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with > plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it > anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly. > > The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable > manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the earth > for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is provided > in IC 14-21-1-24." > It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know > others think differently. > > I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth. > Angela > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephens, Larry V" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM > Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > > > > For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from > reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries: > > > > I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on > private land. > > > > > I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g., > fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a > "public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one > that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that is > on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading, > "public" and does not have to be protected. > > > > > > > > If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Larry V. Stephens > > Office of Risk Management > > 812-855-9758 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected]rthlink.net > > > http://www.inpcrp.org > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Visit the INPCRP on the web at http://www.inpcrp.org > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: "Show me the manner in which a nation or community cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender mercies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty to high ideals."

In a message dated 8/16/04 11:23:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > The DNR/DHPA is concerned about this, and all cemeteries. As of August 16, > 2004, we do not have a development plan for anything in Floyd County. I > will call this morning the Plan Commission for Floyd County and inform them of > the law and that before this development within 100 feet may occur, they must > have a development plan approved through our office. > > Jeanie, I forgot last night to give you what info I have on the Section and Township. It is Part of Section 4-TWP. 2s - R-5E. Greenville Twp. According to the plat map 2 acres have been set aside for the sewage treatment plant and the cemetery. The cemetery deed dated 1866 defines the cemetery as 1560 sq. feet. This 2 acres comes out of approximately 90 Acres, with 206 houses planned. The last I heard this morning was that the Sewage Treatment Plant was to be Appx. 75 feet from the Cemetery. Jeanie, i appreciate your quick response. I hope cooler heads prevail and no damage is done to this final resting place of some of Floyd Co's True Pioneers. Projects like this will soon absorb all of Little Floyd Co. Thanks Again, Have a nice day, sorry to have to bring it up, but time IS important. [email protected] Jack E. Briles Sr. Po Box 444 New Albany, In 47151-0444 (812)282-6585

"Easement by necessity" is an old concept in Indiana property law. Unfortunately, to determine whether it applies in your case you will need to consult an attorney who is familiar with the legal concept and probably need title searches. The concept arose to deal with the situation of a landowner who conveyed away part of his property that was landlocked by other property that he retained. The courts implied an easement somewhere across the remainder of his property so the new owner could have access to a road. It had to be a real necessity, not just a convenience. So if one side of the sold property had access to a road, but the side of the sold property that had the barn did not have such access without crossing the property of the previous landowner, too bad. Also, the concept requires that conveyed away land once to have been owned by the same owner of the land across which an easement is sought. That's why a title search will be necessary. The easement, if any, arose out of necessity when the land was sold. So if things changed in the intervening years, too bad, and if the land with the cemetery never had a common owner with the land across which the easement was sought, also too bad. It is said that an easement of "necessity cannot arise against the lands of a stranger." In other words, if an easement of necessity exists, it exists only because of conditions at the time the land was divided for sale and only if the landlocked land and the land across which the easement is sought had common ownership. If the landlocked cemetery is cut off from road access by land that was never owned somewhere up the line by the same person that owned the cemetery land, probably too bad. You'll only figure out who owned what and when by analyzing title searches. To make this even more complicated, easement by necessity cases usually involve disputes between landowners. Presumably the persons seeking access to the landlocked cemeteries are not the owners of the cemetery but rather descendants or relatives or just interested persons concerned about the cemetery. Whether the concept of "easement by necessity" grants them access is far from clear. So, to figure this out you'll need an attorney and title information. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahn Teresa" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > I have been informed that in regard to cemeteries that are totally landlocked on private property, access may be gained by a law that refers to "easement by necessity". > Does anyone know more about this law? Our family is in a situation with a cemetery est in 1825 that is totally overgrown and is landlocked within a wooded isle that sits smack dab in the middle of planted fields. Any help is appreciated. Thanx. > > Teresa > > tielking <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Larry, > > Checking my e-mail late (again).... > Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no > right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom > Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to > Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau > would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that have > cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind > to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the > West Virginia law. > We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana > Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time > constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev > Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the > Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The > Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House. > If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15 > addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified > cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and > descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all > fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery > classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it > surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across > their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap. > > > Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation. IC > 35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly, or > intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument, > artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or Class > D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are out > in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e. rubbing > against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I > personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with > plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it > anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly. > > The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable > manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the earth > for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is provided > in IC 14-21-1-24." > It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know > others think differently. > > I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth. > Angela > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephens, Larry V" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM > Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > > > > For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from > reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries: > > > > I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on > private land. > > > > > I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g., > fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a > "public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one > that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that is > on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading, > "public" and does not have to be protected. > > > > > > > > If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Larry V. Stephens > > Office of Risk Management > > 812-855-9758 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > > http://www.inpcrp.org > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Visit the INPCRP on the web at http://www.inpcrp.org > > >

I have been informed that in regard to cemeteries that are totally landlocked on private property, access may be gained by a law that refers to "easement by necessity". Does anyone know more about this law? Our family is in a situation with a cemetery est in 1825 that is totally overgrown and is landlocked within a wooded isle that sits smack dab in the middle of planted fields. Any help is appreciated. Thanx. Teresa tielking <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Larry, Checking my e-mail late (again).... Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that have cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the West Virginia law. We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House. If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15 addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap. Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation. IC 35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument, artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or Class D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are out in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e. rubbing against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly. The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the earth for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is provided in IC 14-21-1-24." It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know others think differently. I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth. Angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephens, Larry V" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries: > > I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on private land. > > I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g., fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a "public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that is on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading, "public" and does not have to be protected. > > > > If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do. > > Thanks. > > > > > Larry V. Stephens > Office of Risk Management > 812-855-9758 > [email protected] > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > http://www.inpcrp.org > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

Thanks. There's so much that needs to be done... -----Original Message----- From: tielking [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 10:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law Hi Larry, Checking my e-mail late (again).... Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that have cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the West Virginia law. We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House. If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15 addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap. Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation. IC 35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument, artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or Class D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are out in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e. rubbing against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly. The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the earth for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is provided in IC 14-21-1-24." It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know others think differently. I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth. Angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephens, Larry V" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries: > > I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on private land. > > I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g., fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a "public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that is on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading, "public" and does not have to be protected. > > > > If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do. > > Thanks. > > > > > Larry V. Stephens > Office of Risk Management > 812-855-9758 > [email protected] > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > http://www.inpcrp.org > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

Jeanie, Sorry to have to bother you. We have a Subdivision coming up for vote by the Floyd Co. Zoning Board Monday night at 6 PM EDT. (Tonight) The lady who is trying to find out something about the "Girdner' Pioneer cemetery, Dolly Jenkins contacted me to see if I could find out if they had approval to build around it, and fence it, from The DNR and the DHPA. The cemetery dating back to 1864 is included in the Plat of 178 houses on a little over 100 acres. They have the cemetery on the Map, but they are building the waste water plant next to the cemetery. The biggest problem is, Have they applied for permission to put the plant next to the cemetery, and if they haven't, why not. Does the DNR or the DHPA care about this cemetery enough to ask for a description of what they have planned? They just announced they were bringing it up this Monday (Again) They will have a Treatment building and sewage lines all around the cemetery. Do they have to file a plan as to what they are planning for the cemetery, since they definitely will be installing lines well within the 100 ft. zone? Every one down here in Floyd Co. claim to know nothing about the Law until I bring it up. If the DNR and the DHPA don't care, I and others may have Pickets and the Louisville Ky. TV stations, and the Louisville Courier Newspaper covering the work when they start the building of any kind when they are within 100 ft of the cemetery, and especially when they start the waste treatment plant. Lets see if anyone cares, or does the Law mean nothing. Can you check and tell me before 4:30 EDT if they have filed anything, or if they need to. This is screwed up bad. One of the zoning board members owns the ground. I don't care what they build, nor how many, I WORRY ABOUT THE CEMETERY. It's not the board members family. I don't ask for much, but this needs attention bad. Hoping to hear one way or another, Do I have a Leg to stand on. ??? Thank you for at least reading this, Hope you can get me an answer today. I appreciate your help, and I understand your position. [email protected] Jack E. Briles Sr. Po Box 444 New Albany, In 47151-0444 (812)282-6585 Jack

Hi Larry, Checking my e-mail late (again).... Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that have cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the West Virginia law. We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House. If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15 addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap. Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation. IC 35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument, artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or Class D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are out in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e. rubbing against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly. The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the earth for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is provided in IC 14-21-1-24." It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know others think differently. I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth. Angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephens, Larry V" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries: > > I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on private land. > > I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g., fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a "public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that is on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading, "public" and does not have to be protected. > > > > If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do. > > Thanks. > > > > > Larry V. Stephens > Office of Risk Management > 812-855-9758 > [email protected] > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > http://www.inpcrp.org >

I received my t-shirts in the mail on Saturday. They look nice. I agree........they do run a little big, but I plan on wearing my a lot and I am sure washing them will shrink them a little. Angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Theresa Berghoff" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: [INPCRP] t-shirt FYI > I just got my INPCRP t-shirts in the mail today.The X sizes seem to run a little big. That's probably adjustable if washed in hot water & dried in the dryer. > > Theresa > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- > "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families > are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is > undisguised. This is a cemetery. > "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, > historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. > "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved > in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - > not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family > memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. > "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of > yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery > exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." > --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA >

I'm not sure who did this. The cemetery is still active and is well kept. I don't know if it's public or private. There is a number on a sign to call for sales but I haven't called it yet. I stopped by this cemetery because it is the final resting place of two Revolutionary War veterans, Edward Hall (whose fairly new military marker has been damaged likely by the lawn mower) and John George who is said to have been the drummer boy for George Washington during the war. There were some other stones that had been repaired in the same manner as those in the pics but that weren't as in as bad of condition as these three. Brad -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Berghoff [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [INPCRP] Unidentified subject! I just checked out the "How NOT to repair a headstone" feature on the INPCRP website. I was shocked by the stones from the Round Hill Cemetery in Perry Twsp., Marion Co. Who made this mess? Thanks Brad for the horrible images. They certainly make a point. Theresa --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

I just got my INPCRP t-shirts in the mail today.The X sizes seem to run a little big. That's probably adjustable if washed in hot water & dried in the dryer. Theresa --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

What it all comes down to is...........MONEY, and lobbyist have plenty of that. Does anyone on this list have that to {donate) to a reelection campaign. Bribery? they say not. UEB Henry Co., IN INPCRP ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:26 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law > In a message dated 8/12/2004 4:01:15 AM Central Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > Do we have any retired lawyers out there who could help up draft something? > > M > > > > The issue isn't getting a lawyer to draft something, it's getting a > legislator to author (sponsor) it and then getting it passed through the 100 member > house and 50 member senate. We have a handful of friendly legislators who can > have it drafted by the Legislative Services Agency in no time. It's the > remaining three months of trying to push it through the session that takes it's > toll.... It now all depends on what happens in this November's election. With > next year being a budget drafting year, that will take priority over everything, > and depending on who is governor and who controls the house, that will decide > how smoothly the whole system works for the next two years. > > Kyle > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of > "UNSUBSCRIBE" to [email protected] > or to [email protected] (for DIGEST version) > >