Brad: This sounds terrific. I have wrote before that I would like a statewide meeting to we can all exchange ideas and share our problems and solutions with others. We are working on a puzzling cemetery right now, worst I have encountered. But, I imagine we will be done with it by next spring when you would have your meeting. I will keep my eye out for others in Tipton County. Keep up the good work. Joan Wray Tipton County ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Manzenberger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: [INPCRP] certification, other Wow, we have a lot to discuss here. Glad to see it. There have been some really good ideas presented to us, all worthy of discussion. A few comments I have on some of them are... -More workshops and work days: Starting next spring I'd like to begin INPCRP 'sponsored' (I use the term sponsored loosely since we don't have funding, but that's another issue) work days once a month. We should pick a Saturday (the first Saturday of the month or whatever) and plan and promote these days to try to get others not involved with the INPCRP involved. Instead of one location we should have one in each region (regions to be determined) so more people can participate around the state. The cemetery should generally (but not always) fit into the basics of the guidelines listed on the website and one that could generate more community and media interest would be a plus. -Need for more structure than we currently have: First, I want to divide the state into regions and create regional directors. They would help find county coordinators, help promote the cause to the community through the local media and other sources, choose cemeteries for monthly work days and... Second, we need someone to head the education/outreach 'branch' of the INPCRP. The school projects going on are great and we need to encourage more of this. But we also need to show them the proper way to do it. Not only schools, but the Scouts, church groups and others as has been mentioned before. Third, we need someone to head the legislation 'branch' to help steer us through the maze that is our General Assembly. -Certified Restorationist's: I like the idea of this in general but I think it needs much discussion first. The first thing I'll say about this is KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT! If you want something to fail... I think INPCRP is quite capable of setting standards and what-not to establish a certification for restorationist's. I'd suggest that maybe there be two levels of certification to account for those who do this full time and those who are volunteers, as Larry pointed out. -Funding: I fully understand the opposition to raising money. In fact, I hate fund raising, period. But I think it's necessary to really achieve our goals. I would never make participation in the INPCRP contingent upon a financial contribution. As has always been stated on the website, "participation is voluntary, and it is our desire that nobody feels obligated to volunteer." That's it for now. Brad ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > http://www.inpcrp.org

Hello everyone: This is a subject that I have been rolling around in my head for some time. This is our third year of doing cemetery restoration. We work volunteer and ask for no funding unless it is for supplies. We have received some donations but we also have paid for much of the supplies (especially the first year). This is not the point that I want to make. The point that I want to bring up is that I feel that some of the cemeteries will not be maintained very well and will just fall back like they were when we did the restoration. I was wondering if anyone else has came across this problem and what did you do. Have a good day everyone, Joan Wray Tipton County

Wow, we have a lot to discuss here. Glad to see it. There have been some really good ideas presented to us, all worthy of discussion. A few comments I have on some of them are... -More workshops and work days: Starting next spring I'd like to begin INPCRP 'sponsored' (I use the term sponsored loosely since we don't have funding, but that's another issue) work days once a month. We should pick a Saturday (the first Saturday of the month or whatever) and plan and promote these days to try to get others not involved with the INPCRP involved. Instead of one location we should have one in each region (regions to be determined) so more people can participate around the state. The cemetery should generally (but not always) fit into the basics of the guidelines listed on the website and one that could generate more community and media interest would be a plus. -Need for more structure than we currently have: First, I want to divide the state into regions and create regional directors. They would help find county coordinators, help promote the cause to the community through the local media and other sources, choose cemeteries for monthly work days and... Second, we need someone to head the education/outreach 'branch' of the INPCRP. The school projects going on are great and we need to encourage more of this. But we also need to show them the proper way to do it. Not only schools, but the Scouts, church groups and others as has been mentioned before. Third, we need someone to head the legislation 'branch' to help steer us through the maze that is our General Assembly. -Certified Restorationist's: I like the idea of this in general but I think it needs much discussion first. The first thing I'll say about this is KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT! If you want something to fail... I think INPCRP is quite capable of setting standards and what-not to establish a certification for restorationist's. I'd suggest that maybe there be two levels of certification to account for those who do this full time and those who are volunteers, as Larry pointed out. -Funding: I fully understand the opposition to raising money. In fact, I hate fund raising, period. But I think it's necessary to really achieve our goals. I would never make participation in the INPCRP contingent upon a financial contribution. As has always been stated on the website, "participation is voluntary, and it is our desire that nobody feels obligated to volunteer." That's it for now. Brad

Not too long ago there was some discussion of creating some sort of certification for cemetery restorationists. This idea, however, didn't seem to really catch on. I would like to bring this issue back into play. There are several professional who are essentially operating as a full time business. These individuals refer to themselves as professional cemetery restorationists, or something similar. On the whole, they are performing an excellent service and should be commended for their efforts. These individuals have every right to refer to themselves as professional cemetery restorations. This title, if you will, indicates that these individuals have attained a certain level of proficiency in restoring cemeteries and carries significant weight in their interaction with township trustees and other cemetery owners. But what about the rest of us? I have been to a number of workshops now and my personal observation is there are many dedicated individuals performing cemetery restoration using the proper restoration methods, but who are not compensated other than occasional donations from the trustees, family members, etc., to help defray their costs. I personally fall into this group. I have a full-time job but I am doing a lot of restoration and am quite proud of my efforts, and always strive to follow the generally accepted methods and techniques. I have not attained the level of proficiency as some of the professionals, and as such would not attempt the very difficult restorations. When I discuss restoring a cemetery with a trustee or other cemetery owner, I describe previous restoration efforts to assure them that the cemetery will be properly restored. But I don't feel it is proper to refer to myself as a professional cemetery restorationists for several reasons. Since I am doing restoration work to honor the memory of our pioneers and not really doing this for a living, I don't feel it would be proper to refer to myself as a professional. And it would not be fair to the true professional restorationists to imply that I have attained their level of proficiency. But I would still like to be able to have some sort of title or uniformly recognized designation to indicate to the trustee or other cemetery owner that I do in fact possess the requisite proficiency to perform the restoration work being considered. Not for my own ego mind you, but for the piece of mind of the cemetery owner. I would therefore ask that we pick up the discussion of developing some sort of certification. I realize that the professionals and others performing cemetery restoration are a diverse group. But I think that we can really pull this off. I am a certified public accountant during the day and perform cemetery restoration during the weekend and other odd times. As such, I have experience in what it takes to create a universally recognized certification. I would like to propose the following ideas as possible steps in creating a cemetery restoration certification. These are merely ideas, so don't anybody yell at me. But I think by putting these ideas on the table we might be able to collectively generate viable ideas as to how to pull this off. The first step would be to select a method of organization and elect or have a respected group appoint a "governing body." I am using the term governing body loosely for lack of a better term. So don't get hung up on terminology. We would need a group of respected restorationists that could enact standards that everyone as a whole could accept. This group could be an independent body selected by the restorationists through some sort of election process. Or this group could be chartered under the auspices of the state in some manner or another, possibly even established by statute as a subdivision of DNR or the Indiana Historical Society with an appointed governing body. The governing body itself would ideally consist of three or five individuals. We wouldn't want so few that one or two individuals could unduly influence the body as a whole, but we wouldn't want so many that nothing could ever be accomplished. I can tell you from experience that governing by committee rarely works. The individuals selected as members of the governing body would have to be respected by the restoration community as a whole. It would probably work best if the governing body consists of several professional restorationists as well as member of the restoration community who, while they may not be performing restoration on a full-time basis, have demonstrated a high level of proficiency and knowledge in proper restoration techniques. A methodology would also be needed for a plan of succession of the members of the governing body. It would be ideal if their terms were staggered so there would always be experience on the board, but new members would be coming on periodically so they could bring new ideas while learning the workings of the board by the experienced members. The next step would be to determine what type of certification we would want to have. The certification would need to indicate to the public that the holder of the certification has in fact achieved a certain level of proficiency and that every effort would be made to perform the cemetery restoration by following the proper techniques and methodologies generally accepted by the restoration community as a whole. I'm not sure what a proper title would be. Something like "certified cemetery restorationists" perhaps? Or "certified by the _____" with the blank being the name of the governing body mentioned earlier. To mean anything the holder of the certification would need to demonstrate that he or she has in fact met or exceeded the requisite standards set by the governing body to earn the title "certified cemetery restorationist" or whatever. So once the governing body, with the input of the restoration community as a whole, has determined the title, the governing body would need to determine what standards one must meet or exceed in order to earn that title. It would need to be decided how high to raise the bar in relation to earning the certification. The standards shouldn't be so high that only the true professionals could attain the certification. What would be the point in that? We might as well leave the professionals to call themselves that and let the rest of us remain out of the loop. But of course, we would not want to set the standards so low that the certification could be attained by those individuals not possessing the skills needed to be able to restore a cemetery in a manner that restorations as a group would deem proper. I would thus propose that the governing body determine certain standards one must achieve in order to earn the certification. We all agree that there are certain do's and don'ts. For instance, everybody should know that it is never acceptable to place a tablet stone in wet cement, support a stone with metal, etc. The governing body would need to prepare written standards which collectively encompass the acceptable standards a "certified cemetery restorationist" would follow in restoring a cemetery. The ideal, in my opinion, would be for the governing body to prepare a working list of these standards and to expose them to the restoration community as a whole for public comment. After a reasonable deadline, probably three months or so, the board would gather up all the public comments and after careful consideration and deliberation develop the standards. The concept of "generally accepted" standards comes into play here. Not everyone will agree with all the standards, but we would all have to accept them if we wish to attain the certification. And again, the standards could not be so high that few could follow them, but not so low that the certification would result in certified individuals who are not really capable of performing proper cemetery restoration. The Graveyard Preservation Primer by Lynette Strangstad and other generally recognized restoration publications would probably be a good starting point in the development of these standards. There would also have to be a process for amending the standards from time to time. As we all are aware, the generally accepted best practices for cemetery restoration evolves over time. What may have been acceptable by many restorationists years ago might not be considered acceptable today. Next, the governing body would need to determine the process to certify how an individual has in fact met the requirements to earn the certification. For instance, the governing body might require some sort of written exam, workshop attendance, documentation through photos and written narratives of prior restoration efforts, a hands-on examination, or a combination of these or other methods that would satisfy the governing body that an applicant does in fact possess the necessary requisite knowledge and ability to earn the certification. I would also like to suggest some sort of on-going continuing education requirement. For instance, as a CPA, I am required to attend 40 hours each year of continuing education, usually in the form of classroom training, in order to retain my certification. This is an excellent way to see to it that a CPA keeps informed and abreast of the current best practices. I would like to see some sort of one-day workshop concept or something similar where a certified cemetery restorationist could keep abreast of best practices. A hands-on workshop at a cemetery would probably be more useful than a classroom setting. But a combination of the two might not be a bad idea. A round table discussion of newly discovered best practices or other sharing of information could only serve to help all restorationists. In addition to the standards developed by the governing body, it might be a good idea if certain recommended practices could be issued. These recommended practices would not be a part of the absolute do and don't standards, but rather, would be more in the form of suggestions, recommendations, etc., to assist a cemetery restorationist. I'm thinking here perhaps the recommended slot mix formulas, recommend types of epoxies, etc. And I think developing a written code of ethics would be a good idea. The code of ethics, if nothing else, should be made a part of the certification in such a way that an individual who holds the certification would pledge to follow the code of ethics and lose their certification if they don't I would also like to see some sort of outreach or education program developed. Remember not too long ago where a group of boy scouts performed some restoration work in a cemetery. It is always great when volunteers step forward to help restore a cemetery, but we were all horrified to learn they were cleaning stones with a power washer. This is of course one of the absolute don'ts. Maybe in addition to the recommended practice for cemetery restorationists, there could also be a list of recommendations developed for volunteer groups that want to do some basic restoration, but don't know how or don't know what jobs they are capable of performing and which ones should be left to a certified restorationists. Possibly a brochure, info published on various websites, etc? It would also be a good idea if all the county historical societies, libraries, etc., were made aware of the existence of the cemetery restoration governing body and its recommended practices. It might even be a good idea to publish a list of the certified cemetery restorationists so that a boy scout group or other volunteers could seek advise from a nearby certified restorationist before they attempt restoration efforts. And on a delicate subject, there would need to be some sort of fee structure. I would envision that an individual would need to submit a fee to the governing body when then apply to be certified. The organization, particularly if the organization is independent and not affiliated directly with the state, would need to have some funds to cover its basic expenses. What do you all think? I think something like this would provide the tools for those involved in cemetery restoration to improve their efforts. Keep your eye on the big picture. We need to stay focused on the actual results achieved. Will this help achieve a high standard of quality in the restoration of the cemeteries? I believe strongly that it would. Larry Tippin Putnam County Coordinator ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Manzenberger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 8:04 AM Subject: RE: [INPCRP] A novel way to raise money for a cemetery > Lots of great ideas Theresa! > > As far as breaking down the state coordinator, I have no problem with the > site, list admin and being the contact point for the media, etc. I think it > would be better if someone else coordinated legislative and educational > aspects of it. I can help, but I don't have the time to head them up. > > I am going to add the Hall of Fame to the site. Walt suggested it recently > and it is a very good idea. We need to show the positive side of this so > people in our communities can see that these places can be fixed. Hopefully > that will generate more interest. There is not a main Hall of Fame main page > yet- please stand by. > > I have placed one cemetery in the Hall of Fame- Spring Friends Cemetery in > Hendricks Co. This is the cemetery Jessica Felix has her students working > in. It can be accessed at > http://www.inpcrp.org/HallofFame/hendricks_spring_friends.html. > > I have also added a page for Tipton Co. which can be accessed through the > county coordinators page. Joan has sent me some more pictures and info that > I will get posted soon. > > If you have any candidates for the Hall of Fame please send them to me, but > be patient about getting them posted. I've had some free time and am taking > advantage of the great weather to get some restoration work done in > Franklin. > > Thanks, > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: Theresa Berghoff [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 4:06 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] A novel way to raise money for a cemetery > > > I'm glad this calendar/ fund raising discussion has come round to the > structure of the INPCRP. Some of us have been talking about this recently. > While it would be nice to have money for cemetery projects, the structure > needed for a 501c3 organization could be a burden and go against the grain > of some of us independent minded preservationist. > > I do think that we need more structure than we have. We have made great > strides this summer. Having Brad come on as webmaster & update the website > has made a world of difference. When Lois resigned, she broke down the State > Coordinators job description into 3 parts-webmaster- spokes person to do PR > & work with the Legislature - list monitor. We need to think about where we > want to go & what positions we need to get there > > .We have 2 new County coordinators, but most of the 92 counties are not > covered. > We need more visibility, that's what the t-shirts and requests for letters > to legislators,and county prosecutors is about. Most of the state doesn't > know we exist. Having some organization is helpful when we go to the > Legislature. > > Education is needed in these areas: > 1 cemetery care, maintenance, & repair guidelines for Township Trustees, > Cemetery > Associations & the people they hire. > 2 preservation project guidelines for Boy Scout & Girl Scout Councils, > schools ect. > 3 cemetery visitation guides for libraries, & genealogy societies. > 4 recording methods for County Recorders . > 5 cemetery law for the general public > Maybe we could joint venture some education material with the IN Township > Association, IN Historical Society, Historic Landmarks Foundation, or > DNR-DHPA. > > Other ideas I have heard: > more workshops & work days > more school projects like Rhonda Stoffer & Jessica Felix are doing > work with the Ball State Landscape Architecture & Historic > Preservation program > meet with IN Prosecutors group > create a Hall of Fame for restored cemeteries > vandalism response info for cemeteries > reunion for workshop people > Scott talked about doing a book of restored cemeteries > > So what about any of this? > Theresa > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- > "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families > are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is > undisguised. This is a cemetery. > "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, > historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. > "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved > in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - > not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family > memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. > "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of > yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery > exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." > --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA >

Hi Jessica, Tremendous! What a terrific project and some great publicity, too. Like the others, I'd be interested in the details of the program fi you have a chance to pass them along. It was a pleasure to meet you at the IHS Cemetery workshop a few weeks ago - hope to see you again, soon! Kind regards, Corrie Corrie E. Cook Assistant, Local History Services Indiana Historical Society 450 West Ohio Street Indianapolis, IN 46202 317-233-8913 [email protected] www.indianahistory.org -----Original Message----- From: Jessica Felix [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 4:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [INPCRP] School Cemetery Project For everyone who gave suggestions for my school cemetery project, here's the update! Our first major field trip was Monday. The kids really loved it, mostly because of the research they did prior. It was neat to hear them find stones for the family they researched and get so excited! They then got to go through the whole restoration process on a couple of the family stones. Letting them see their progress from start to finish really made a difference. They were so proud of their work! We're planning another trip for a new batch of kids at the start of November, plus another around April. The community has really gotten into this and wants to keep it going. You can read the article the small town newspaper published. PLEASE--take it with a grain of salt....the reporter really took things I said liberally. I just kept shaking my head as I read it. Not quite an accurate picture...but the community won't know the difference. I'm just glad we're getting some publicity! http://www.flyergroup.com/story.asp?id=3394 _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

Hello friends, I got to stop by Van Sickle very briefly last Saturday between work engagements. It was great to see good friends again! And how inspiring to see even more progress in the cemetery after an already amazing start during our recent IHS Cemetery workshop. Great job, all! Keep me in the loop for future returns to Van Sickle - I'd love to help out if I can. Thanks and kind regards, Corrie Corrie E. Cook Assistant, Local History Services Indiana Historical Society 450 West Ohio Street Indianapolis, IN 46202 317-233-8913 [email protected] www.indianahistory.org -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Berghoff [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 1:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [INPCRP] Van Sickle Project Some of us worked at Van Sickle in Warren Township, Marion Co. last Saturday. Most everything that needed to be upright is. The bases and granite for the new markers for the 5 Civil War Veterans are in place. Walt put a new face on one of the soldiers in relief on one of the original obelisks.There are 3 more to be repaired. There are lots of repairs, mortaring, & cleaning yet to do.There is still a large pile of pieces without homes. Keith Rott ordered a new piece of stone to repair the White Baby monument and some dyes for other monuments from a stone mason in southern Indiana. There will be more workdays as weather permits in late October or into November. The plan is to stick to this one till it's done. Brad will notify the list when we plan to work. Any one can come help. It's not limited to people from the workshop. Theresa --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > is the INPCRP State Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or comments you may have about the INPCRP.

To unsubscribe send a message with unsubscribe in the subject line to mailto:[email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca A. [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 8:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [INPCRP] Unsubscribe I think I'm recieving this at three email addresses now and I'm not really using this one anymore. Do I need to go to the website to unsubscribe? I can't recall. Thanks Rebecca Akens _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project only. Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. Thank you.

Lots of great ideas Theresa! As far as breaking down the state coordinator, I have no problem with the site, list admin and being the contact point for the media, etc. I think it would be better if someone else coordinated legislative and educational aspects of it. I can help, but I don't have the time to head them up. I am going to add the Hall of Fame to the site. Walt suggested it recently and it is a very good idea. We need to show the positive side of this so people in our communities can see that these places can be fixed. Hopefully that will generate more interest. There is not a main Hall of Fame main page yet- please stand by. I have placed one cemetery in the Hall of Fame- Spring Friends Cemetery in Hendricks Co. This is the cemetery Jessica Felix has her students working in. It can be accessed at http://www.inpcrp.org/HallofFame/hendricks_spring_friends.html. I have also added a page for Tipton Co. which can be accessed through the county coordinators page. Joan has sent me some more pictures and info that I will get posted soon. If you have any candidates for the Hall of Fame please send them to me, but be patient about getting them posted. I've had some free time and am taking advantage of the great weather to get some restoration work done in Franklin. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Berghoff [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 4:06 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INPCRP] A novel way to raise money for a cemetery I'm glad this calendar/ fund raising discussion has come round to the structure of the INPCRP. Some of us have been talking about this recently. While it would be nice to have money for cemetery projects, the structure needed for a 501c3 organization could be a burden and go against the grain of some of us independent minded preservationist. I do think that we need more structure than we have. We have made great strides this summer. Having Brad come on as webmaster & update the website has made a world of difference. When Lois resigned, she broke down the State Coordinators job description into 3 parts-webmaster- spokes person to do PR & work with the Legislature - list monitor. We need to think about where we want to go & what positions we need to get there .We have 2 new County coordinators, but most of the 92 counties are not covered. We need more visibility, that's what the t-shirts and requests for letters to legislators,and county prosecutors is about. Most of the state doesn't know we exist. Having some organization is helpful when we go to the Legislature. Education is needed in these areas: 1 cemetery care, maintenance, & repair guidelines for Township Trustees, Cemetery Associations & the people they hire. 2 preservation project guidelines for Boy Scout & Girl Scout Councils, schools ect. 3 cemetery visitation guides for libraries, & genealogy societies. 4 recording methods for County Recorders . 5 cemetery law for the general public Maybe we could joint venture some education material with the IN Township Association, IN Historical Society, Historic Landmarks Foundation, or DNR-DHPA. Other ideas I have heard: more workshops & work days more school projects like Rhonda Stoffer & Jessica Felix are doing work with the Ball State Landscape Architecture & Historic Preservation program meet with IN Prosecutors group create a Hall of Fame for restored cemeteries vandalism response info for cemeteries reunion for workshop people Scott talked about doing a book of restored cemeteries So what about any of this? Theresa

If you could share the information with all of us it could help those interested in approaching their schools with this idea. How did you present it to your principal? Was the grant money enough to cover everything? Brad -----Original Message----- From: Greg Tielking [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:05 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INPCRP] School Cemetery Project Do you have a lesson plan that you follow? I am very curious about this. In Henry Co., the Cemetery Advisory Board was working on a cemetery education program. It has pretty much been put on hold due to legistative issues we were working on among other things. If you wouldn't mind, would you mind telling me more about your cemetery education program? You can respond to me personally if you would like. Thank you so much!! Angela Tielking [email protected]

I think I'm recieving this at three email addresses now and I'm not really using this one anymore. Do I need to go to the website to unsubscribe? I can't recall. Thanks Rebecca Akens _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com

Excellent comments. I agree. Teresa Rahn Sharon Howell <[email protected]> wrote: However, we do not have any > legal tax status and would have to pay taxes on anything we raised. I have > discussed this with a couple of people and our options if we want to raise > funds are to get our own 501c(3) tax status which could take a year or > more > (it has taken that long for some other non-profit's, it could be less), or > find a historical society or other existing non-profit to take us under > their umbrella for the purpose of raising money only. Being a treasurer for a state-wide 501c(3) organization, I can tell you that exacting records need to be kept. There also needs to be a formal, structured board of directors, etc. Even another organization would require that there be at least a formal committee to run INPCRP. Raising money to pay for the supplies used would be great. But the one thing that has made INPCRP work so far, it that it is a loose group of people with no formal structure. Each individual is able to join in for what time, or experiences, they want. And if someone wants to drop out, there are no consequences. While structure has its place, I would hate to see the good feelings and volunteerism of this group be dropped because of having to have officers and other formal goings-on. I wonder if any of the $40,000 that the man will have to pay for vandalizing the Greenlawn Cemetery in Franklin will be used to reimburse those of you who supplied the materials to fix the stones? Maybe if we continue to volunteer our labor, but bill the city or county or whomever for the materials, then more judges would fine offenders. Sharon Howell ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of "UNSUBSCRIBE" to [email protected] or to [email protected] (for DIGEST version)

I'm glad this calendar/ fund raising discussion has come round to the structure of the INPCRP. Some of us have been talking about this recently. While it would be nice to have money for cemetery projects, the structure needed for a 501c3 organization could be a burden and go against the grain of some of us independent minded preservationist. I do think that we need more structure than we have. We have made great strides this summer. Having Brad come on as webmaster & update the website has made a world of difference. When Lois resigned, she broke down the State Coordinators job description into 3 parts-webmaster- spokes person to do PR & work with the Legislature - list monitor. We need to think about where we want to go & what positions we need to get there .We have 2 new County coordinators, but most of the 92 counties are not covered. We need more visibility, that's what the t-shirts and requests for letters to legislators,and county prosecutors is about. Most of the state doesn't know we exist. Having some organization is helpful when we go to the Legislature. Education is needed in these areas: 1 cemetery care, maintenance, & repair guidelines for Township Trustees, Cemetery Associations & the people they hire. 2 preservation project guidelines for Boy Scout & Girl Scout Councils, schools ect. 3 cemetery visitation guides for libraries, & genealogy societies. 4 recording methods for County Recorders . 5 cemetery law for the general public Maybe we could joint venture some education material with the IN Township Association, IN Historical Society, Historic Landmarks Foundation, or DNR-DHPA. Other ideas I have heard: more workshops & work days more school projects like Rhonda Stoffer & Jessica Felix are doing work with the Ball State Landscape Architecture & Historic Preservation program meet with IN Prosecutors group create a Hall of Fame for restored cemeteries vandalism response info for cemeteries reunion for workshop people Scott talked about doing a book of restored cemeteries So what about any of this? Theresa [email protected] wrote: As one who has been a member of this list for longer than I care to remember, I can add a little insight into some of this discussion. No...not about the nude illusions, but about the fundraising. Quite frankly, as a cemetery board member myself, I think it would be a hoot, but not very profitable! And please don't think I'm disrespectful...all of my ancestors are dead and I have a great deal of respect for them. I also believe that those people whom I had fun with in life I can still have fun with in death...especially when I recall those fun times as I drive or walk through my cemetery on my regular visits and as I talk to them along the way. In fact, the Newton Co. Historical Society is planning their first ever cemetery walk in my cemetery...Riverside Cemetery here in Brook, Indiana on Oct. 23rd. I will be the tour guide while portraying our community's first undertaker. I plan on having plenty of tasteful fun playing that role! But that's not my point here. Many times over the course of the last six or so years that I've been here, this idea of fundraising or formalizing our organization comes up and is discussed. As Jack and Lois will probably recall, we always come back to the notion that staying 'informal' offers the best opportunity for us to remain successful without too many other requirements placed on the volunteers. The expense of the not for profit paperwork and the subsequent requirements always seem to make it less worthwhile. The second thing is what are we going to raise money for? We obviously couldn't raise money to restore cemeteries as the need is too great throughout the state. Maybe bringing awareness about our plight? But aren't we making pretty good headway in that regard as well without expending much money? Then there's electing officers, holding meetings, blah blah blah...and I'm sure everyone else on here is an officer in too many organizations now and sure doesn't need any more meetings. So I guess what I'm saying is fairly simple. This is a great list...there's a bunch of great people on here....these people do a great job of working to protect our pioneer cemeteries in Indiana...and we're making progress albeit slow at times... so why ruin a good thing? Let's just continue sharing ideas, tips, hints, and success stories so that we can all keep making progress in our own communities one tombstone at a time. And a little fun along the way isn't disrespectful...unless that's me on that 2005 calendar! Kyle D. Conrad, Secretary Riverside Cemetery Association ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is undisguised. This is a cemetery. "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.

In a message dated 10/7/2004 4:28:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: http://www.flyergroup.com/story.asp?id=3394 Good job Jessica! That is really neat and something to be proud of. Amy

Jessica, This project is so wonderful. I can't thank you enough for your dedication to the kids and pioneer cemeteries. Theresa Jessica Felix <[email protected]> wrote: For everyone who gave suggestions for my school cemetery project, here's the update! Our first major field trip was Monday. The kids really loved it, mostly because of the research they did prior. It was neat to hear them find stones for the family they researched and get so excited! They then got to go through the whole restoration process on a couple of the family stones. Letting them see their progress from start to finish really made a difference. They were so proud of their work! We're planning another trip for a new batch of kids at the start of November, plus another around April. The community has really gotten into this and wants to keep it going. You can read the article the small town newspaper published. PLEASE--take it with a grain of salt....the reporter really took things I said liberally. I just kept shaking my head as I read it. Not quite an accurate picture...but the community won't know the difference. I'm just glad we're getting some publicity! http://www.flyergroup.com/story.asp?id=3394 _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

Some of us worked at Van Sickle in Warren Township, Marion Co. last Saturday. Most everything that needed to be upright is. The bases and granite for the new markers for the 5 Civil War Veterans are in place. Walt put a new face on one of the soldiers in relief on one of the original obelisks.There are 3 more to be repaired. There are lots of repairs, mortaring, & cleaning yet to do.There is still a large pile of pieces without homes. Keith Rott ordered a new piece of stone to repair the White Baby monument and some dyes for other monuments from a stone mason in southern Indiana. There will be more workdays as weather permits in late October or into November. The plan is to stick to this one till it's done. Brad will notify the list when we plan to work. Any one can come help. It's not limited to people from the workshop. Theresa --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

As one who has been a member of this list for longer than I care to remember, I can add a little insight into some of this discussion. No...not about the nude illusions, but about the fundraising. Quite frankly, as a cemetery board member myself, I think it would be a hoot, but not very profitable! And please don't think I'm disrespectful...all of my ancestors are dead and I have a great deal of respect for them. I also believe that those people whom I had fun with in life I can still have fun with in death...especially when I recall those fun times as I drive or walk through my cemetery on my regular visits and as I talk to them along the way. In fact, the Newton Co. Historical Society is planning their first ever cemetery walk in my cemetery...Riverside Cemetery here in Brook, Indiana on Oct. 23rd. I will be the tour guide while portraying our community's first undertaker. I plan on having plenty of tasteful fun playing that role! But that's not my point here. Many times over the course of the last six or so years that I've been here, this idea of fundraising or formalizing our organization comes up and is discussed. As Jack and Lois will probably recall, we always come back to the notion that staying 'informal' offers the best opportunity for us to remain successful without too many other requirements placed on the volunteers. The expense of the not for profit paperwork and the subsequent requirements always seem to make it less worthwhile. The second thing is what are we going to raise money for? We obviously couldn't raise money to restore cemeteries as the need is too great throughout the state. Maybe bringing awareness about our plight? But aren't we making pretty good headway in that regard as well without expending much money? Then there's electing officers, holding meetings, blah blah blah...and I'm sure everyone else on here is an officer in too many organizations now and sure doesn't need any more meetings. So I guess what I'm saying is fairly simple. This is a great list...there's a bunch of great people on here....these people do a great job of working to protect our pioneer cemeteries in Indiana...and we're making progress albeit slow at times... so why ruin a good thing? Let's just continue sharing ideas, tips, hints, and success stories so that we can all keep making progress in our own communities one tombstone at a time. And a little fun along the way isn't disrespectful...unless that's me on that 2005 calendar! Kyle D. Conrad, Secretary Riverside Cemetery Association

How about a before/after of Pioneer Cemeteries around the state? Or maybe some 'in progress'/after shots of the same stone? Those would show some of the equipment needed and reinforce the idea that it takes $ to do all of this. Maybe the month page should primarily be a restored cemetery or stone, with just a small inset of the 'before'. I don't think folks would want to buy/hang/look at pictures of desolation & disrepair. Cindy Welch --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 10/5/04

Congratulations Jessica! What you have done is wonderful and positive. The age of your students is crucial, and to see they are receiving education at this age to respect our cemeteries is so important. Do you have a lesson plan that you follow? I am very curious about this. In Henry Co., the Cemetery Advisory Board was working on a cemetery education program. It has pretty much been put on hold due to legistative issues we were working on among other things. If you wouldn't mind, would you mind telling me more about your cemetery education program? You can respond to me personally if you would like. Thank you so much!! Angela Tielking [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica Felix" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 4:27 PM Subject: [INPCRP] School Cemetery Project > For everyone who gave suggestions for my school > cemetery project, here's the update! > Our first major field trip was Monday. The kids > really loved it, mostly because of the research they > did prior. It was neat to hear them find stones for > the family they researched and get so excited! They > then got to go through the whole restoration process > on a couple of the family stones. Letting them see > their progress from start to finish really made a > difference. They were so proud of their work! We're > planning another trip for a new batch of kids at the > start of November, plus another around April. The > community has really gotten into this and wants to > keep it going. > You can read the article the small town newspaper > published. PLEASE--take it with a grain of > salt....the reporter really took things I said > liberally. I just kept shaking my head as I read it. > Not quite an accurate picture...but the community > won't know the difference. I'm just glad we're > getting some publicity! > > http://www.flyergroup.com/story.asp?id=3394 > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. >

I just bought a new 2005 Calendar from the Association of Gravestone Studies. Belive it cost me $5.00. It is wonderful history to look at. It's an outdoor museum of art. This is all about the beauty from these wonderful stone carvers of the past. Come on you guys. L.A. So dose anyone know if they finished Van Sickle last Saturday? > The idea is great. But frankly, I find the calendar offensive. And I agree > with what several others have said about it possibly sending the wrong > message. But it is a good idea to discuss fundraising activities. While we > have this topic on the table, what other fundraising ideas have been > successful?

In a message dated 10/7/04 10:49:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > They have used their cemetery in a way they would not want anyone else to > use it. It is like prostituting the place for a quick fix giving no > forethought to how the calendar might be perceived by others and using humor > in an inappropriate manner. > > I can envision that some errant teen will see these calendars and think this > is a cool thing to go do. Oh, yes, and let's bring some friends and some > beer (or worse) and have a party doing it. > > To me, this type of project is a recipe for promoting vandalism. > > Sue Silver > California > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rhonda Stoffer" <[email protected]> > Sue, I have decided not to say much about anything, but there is no humor in our forgotten cemeteries. It is ok, as you said if the Calendars are in good taste, but to use them in this manner makes me shudder. I have fought for years to save them, I have yet to see much humor in the year and a half I spent hunting down and recording the cemeteries in Floyd Co. The Calendars done in a "Tasteful Manner" is OK. I'm for it, but lets leave the type of pictures planned out of them. Like Sue says Honor the Dead, Please don't make fun of them even if it is light hearted. [email protected] Jack E Briles Sr Floyd Co. Coordinator INPCRP New Albany, In. (812)282-6585