Concrete gets harder and harder over time, but (usually) it will have 90% of its ultimate strength after 30 days. So, the sooner you start chipping away at it the easier it will be. Theresa Berghoff wrote: >I just recieved an e-mail from a relative that a tombstone of our ancestor was found newly set in concrete in Bethel Cemetery, Wayne Twsp.(?), Hamilton Co. Does anyone know how long it takes the concrete to set. Could the stone still be removed without harming it if the concrete is still wet tomorrow? > >With the Boy Scout thing, the condition of Mt. Pleasant Cemetery in Jackson Twsp. and now this I am NOT happy with what is going on in Hamilton Co.I'm ready to go on the warpath with cemetery education. > Theresa > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- > "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families >are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is >undisguised. This is a cemetery. > "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, >historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. > "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved >in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - >not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family >memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. > "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of >yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery >exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." > --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA > > > -- John Bower The Healthy House Institute is at http://www.hhinst.com/ John's photography is at http://www.studioindiana.com/

A photo of the marker of Eli Coverdale now set in cement is on the web site at http://www.inpcrp.org/how_not_to.html Brad -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Berghoff [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 12:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INPCRP] screaming WOW! I don't have a saw & have to be to work in Indy at 12:30, so I really hope it's just wet. I would love to see you work sometime though. Thanks for the great ideas. Theresa Lee <[email protected]> wrote: Even if its not, you can cut diagonally from the corners to the stone, with a standard power saw using a masonary blade, for whatever reason the four pieces will give way. You could also rent one of the huge masonary cutters and get close, then, slowly but surely chisel away the remainder. If its a floating slab square form above ground, its going to be easier. If its been post hole dug, plunked in, then of course you have your work cut out for you. I don't claim to be an authority on anything, but I have done this within recent weeks, for someone else, and it went terribly slow but turned out fine. Probably a yard of concrete, involved 50 years old. You can do it ! Lee Creed ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: "Show me the manner in which a nation or community cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender mercies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty to high ideals." --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is undisguised. This is a cemetery. "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA

I understand your points completely. My question as to WHO authorized the repair was because I understood it may have been a scout project. If the repair was done with authorization by another family member, that would be different. If not, and if Theresa would have to incur expense to correct this problem, then why shouldn't she have the right to ask the person who authorized the incorrect setting/repair to reimburse her? I agree with you strongly, though, that where there is no descendant family identified to provide permission, how would that affect the good work that you all do? It's a tough question. Because these markers are usually of the historic era, would we be allowed to automatically assume that what we do to assist the preservation of these stones is for the public good and, by benefit of that fact, the need to obtain permission from the "owners" of the stones is unnecessary under certain circumstances? Or, if the cemetery is under the authority of the township trustees, would they be allowed to determine it is in the public good and be within their right to authorize such things? Finally, there was some discussion a year or so ago about getting some regulation deeming the stones to be historic artifacts. In that case one might wonder if repair or restoration would ever be approved in that most artifacts are required to be left in the condition that they are found. Again, I don't know about Indiana law on this subject, only what I've written about California statutes. Unfortunately in California, the private operators are stripping these stones out of the cemeteries as a rapid pace. I would want to see that happen in Indiana where your pioneers have rested far longer than ours! Sue Silver ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] screaming > In a message dated 10/10/2004 7:33:30 AM Central Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > So if the stones remain personal property of the family do we have to get > > permission from the trustees, or owner to repair a family headstone? Does > > this only apply to direct ancestors or do third cousins seven times removed > > count? > > > > Brad > > > > This group has always advocated getting a permission slip from the township > trustee or cemetery board before beginning any work in these pioneer > cemeteries. Many times there are no family members left to give this permission and > since the trustee is responsible for maintaining public cemeteries, that's where > the permission is obtained from. I only wanted to make the case that IF they > did have this type of permission, which this group strongly supports, we > should tread carefully in condemning them for messing with someone's ancestor's > grave stone. The members of this list are continuously working on someone's > ancestor's grave stones and have as much or little right to do so as anyone else. > Obviously, the case against their technique is a whole separate issue. > > Kyle > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > http://www.inpcrp.org > >

Better check with Hamilton Co Cemetery Commission. I can take you to a couple of cemeteries under their care and show you rivers of concrete that have been poured. Mark Davis Original Message: ----------------- From: Theresa Berghoff [email protected] Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 19:44:18 -0700 (PDT) To: [email protected] Subject: [INPCRP] screaming I just recieved an e-mail from a relative that a tombstone of our ancestor was found newly set in concrete in Bethel Cemetery, Wayne Twsp.(?), Hamilton Co. Does anyone know how long it takes the concrete to set. Could the stone still be removed without harming it if the concrete is still wet tomorrow? With the Boy Scout thing, the condition of Mt. Pleasant Cemetery in Jackson Twsp. and now this I am NOT happy with what is going on in Hamilton Co.I'm ready to go on the warpath with cemetery education. Theresa --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is undisguised. This is a cemetery. "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

So if the stones remain personal property of the family do we have to get permission from the trustees, or owner to repair a family headstone? Does this only apply to direct ancestors or do third cousins seven times removed count? Brad -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:40 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INPCRP] screaming In a message dated 10/9/2004 9:16:32 PM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > It is my understanding that the gravestones in cemeteries are PERSONAL > property, not the property of the cemetery operators/owners. WHO authorized > this "repair" of your family member's stone? One must be careful with this issue, because if they did have permission from the cemetery board or trustee, then they went through the same proper channels that this group advocates and it would be counterproductive to be critical of that. If it was another relative, then they probably have as much right to as any other relative and just need to be informed of their improper method. Please don't think I'm defending them in any way, but I don't think it's fair for this group to be critical until we know more about the situation, which I'm sure Theresa will keep us posted on. Kyle ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: "Show me the manner in which a nation or community cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender mercies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty to high ideals."

Oh boy. I really shouldn't answer anything the morning. I meant Jeannie. DID see our point. See I need more coffee. LA ----- Original Message ----- From: "L.A. CLUGH" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP]"Certified Cemetery Restorationist". > Good morning all, > I'm with you Ernie, If I remember right, INPCRP folks > talked about this whole thing with Jeannie/DHPA a couple > of years ago. And she didn't see our point. But there is > a big line we cross with what were doing by resetting > these old monuments. Sooner of later we all have to > disturb the ground somewhat to reset or find the > missing pieces. The very thing that law protects. > Something I guess the DHPA or probably any other > Historical Society won't want to govern for a Certificate. > It could become a legal issue when things go wrong. > So who really should be the one handing out these > Certifications? Who can/should step up to that challenge? > > My question is why dose anyone need this now? I was > asking for this 4 years ago. I guess as long as > I'm working under a trustee's permission I'm doing exactly > what I wanted to do anyway. Repair these wonderful > old family monuments and restore the cemeteries in my county. > So I guess I don't need a certificate to do this. > And most of us on this list are doing this as a hobby > to save our history anyway. I'm hearing that there are > several out there for big money. Maybe they need this. > Credibility is something we all earn in our communities. > And that is better that an certificate anyway. > > Shoo, I better go get more coffee. > Lots of good discussion going this week. > > Happy Sunday. > > L.A. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernie & Connie Lasley" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:53 PM > Subject: Re: [INPCRP]"Certified Cemetery Restorationist". > > > > Larry, > > > > You have put a lot of thought into this, and I also would like to see > > the > > certification idea revived. I had shared some Ideas with Katherine Dill > > back in November 2002, and we discussed the idea briefly on this list in > > February 2003. You have taken the idea a little further with your idea > > of > > the "governing body" to determine the "standards", "performance > > objectives" and "testing" required to be a "Certified Cemetery > > Restorationist". > > > > One thing I did not see in your ideas (unless I missed it) is > > determining > > who will be the "qualified instructors" to teach this certification > > program, something else the governing body will need to determine > > standards > > for. I have been involved in Fire Service Education and Certification > > for > > quite a few years now, and have some ideas on the education end of the > > certification process that I think will help, and would very much like > > to > > be involved in this again if you get enough interest from the group to > > make > > this a reality. I have done presentations on a small scale locally with > > a > > powerpoint presentation on local cemeteries showing various groups some > > of > > the "do's and don'ts" of cemetery cleanup and restoration. I would > > love > > to be more involved on the teaching part of cemetery restoration. > > > > Ernie > > > > (I also changed the "Subject:" line of this topic, since we have drifted > > from "A novel way to raise money for a cemetery" to "Certified Cemetery > > Restorationist") > > > > > > > > At 10:15 PM 10/08/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > >Not too long ago there was some discussion of creating some sort of > > >certification for cemetery restorationists. This idea, however, didn't > > >seem > > >to really catch on. I would like to bring this issue back into play. > > > > > > > > >What do you all think? I think something like this would provide the > > >tools > > >for those involved in cemetery restoration to improve their efforts. > > >Keep > > >your eye on the big picture. We need to stay focused on the actual > > >results > > >achieved. Will this help achieve a high standard of quality in the > > >restoration of the cemeteries? I believe strongly that it would. > > > > > >Larry Tippin > > >Putnam County Coordinator > > > > > >-- > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > > http://www.inpcrp.org > > > > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > http://www.inpcrp.org > >

I may have misspoken on the matter of ownership of the gravestones. My experience is, of course, in California and under California law. In California, if the stones or other cemetery ornamentation become a public health hazard, then the operators may remove them from the cemetery or arrange "repair" (which generally results in their being laid flat in CONCRETE...). Indiana law may be different. Sue Silver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Manzenberger" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 AM Subject: RE: [INPCRP] screaming > So if the stones remain personal property of the family do we have to get > permission from the trustees, or owner to repair a family headstone? Does > this only apply to direct ancestors or do third cousins seven times removed > count? > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:40 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] screaming > > > In a message dated 10/9/2004 9:16:32 PM Central Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > > It is my understanding that the gravestones in cemeteries are PERSONAL > > property, not the property of the cemetery operators/owners. WHO > authorized > > this "repair" of your family member's stone? > > One must be careful with this issue, because if they did have permission > from > the cemetery board or trustee, then they went through the same proper > channels that this group advocates and it would be counterproductive to be > critical > of that. If it was another relative, then they probably have as much right > to > as any other relative and just need to be informed of their improper method. > Please don't think I'm defending them in any way, but I don't think it's > fair > for this group to be critical until we know more about the situation, which > I'm sure Theresa will keep us posted on. > > Kyle > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of > England > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals." > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Visit the INPCRP on the web at http://www.inpcrp.org > >

Good morning all, I'm with you Ernie, If I remember right, INPCRP folks talked about this whole thing with Jeannie/DHPA a couple of years ago. And she didn't see our point. But there is a big line we cross with what were doing by resetting these old monuments. Sooner of later we all have to disturb the ground somewhat to reset or find the missing pieces. The very thing that law protects. Something I guess the DHPA or probably any other Historical Society won't want to govern for a Certificate. It could become a legal issue when things go wrong. So who really should be the one handing out these Certifications? Who can/should step up to that challenge? My question is why dose anyone need this now? I was asking for this 4 years ago. I guess as long as I'm working under a trustee's permission I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do anyway. Repair these wonderful old family monuments and restore the cemeteries in my county. So I guess I don't need a certificate to do this. And most of us on this list are doing this as a hobby to save our history anyway. I'm hearing that there are several out there for big money. Maybe they need this. Credibility is something we all earn in our communities. And that is better that an certificate anyway. Shoo, I better go get more coffee. Lots of good discussion going this week. Happy Sunday. L.A. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie & Connie Lasley" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP]"Certified Cemetery Restorationist". > Larry, > > You have put a lot of thought into this, and I also would like to see the > certification idea revived. I had shared some Ideas with Katherine Dill > back in November 2002, and we discussed the idea briefly on this list in > February 2003. You have taken the idea a little further with your idea > of > the "governing body" to determine the "standards", "performance > objectives" and "testing" required to be a "Certified Cemetery > Restorationist". > > One thing I did not see in your ideas (unless I missed it) is determining > who will be the "qualified instructors" to teach this certification > program, something else the governing body will need to determine > standards > for. I have been involved in Fire Service Education and Certification > for > quite a few years now, and have some ideas on the education end of the > certification process that I think will help, and would very much like to > be involved in this again if you get enough interest from the group to > make > this a reality. I have done presentations on a small scale locally with a > powerpoint presentation on local cemeteries showing various groups some of > the "do's and don'ts" of cemetery cleanup and restoration. I would love > to be more involved on the teaching part of cemetery restoration. > > Ernie > > (I also changed the "Subject:" line of this topic, since we have drifted > from "A novel way to raise money for a cemetery" to "Certified Cemetery > Restorationist") > > > > At 10:15 PM 10/08/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >Not too long ago there was some discussion of creating some sort of > >certification for cemetery restorationists. This idea, however, didn't > >seem > >to really catch on. I would like to bring this issue back into play. > > > > > >What do you all think? I think something like this would provide the > >tools > >for those involved in cemetery restoration to improve their efforts. Keep > >your eye on the big picture. We need to stay focused on the actual > >results > >achieved. Will this help achieve a high standard of quality in the > >restoration of the cemeteries? I believe strongly that it would. > > > >Larry Tippin > >Putnam County Coordinator > > > >-- > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > > http://www.inpcrp.org > >

In a message dated 10/9/2004 9:16:32 PM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > It is my understanding that the gravestones in cemeteries are PERSONAL > property, not the property of the cemetery operators/owners. WHO authorized > this "repair" of your family member's stone? One must be careful with this issue, because if they did have permission from the cemetery board or trustee, then they went through the same proper channels that this group advocates and it would be counterproductive to be critical of that. If it was another relative, then they probably have as much right to as any other relative and just need to be informed of their improper method. Please don't think I'm defending them in any way, but I don't think it's fair for this group to be critical until we know more about the situation, which I'm sure Theresa will keep us posted on. Kyle

Even if its not, you can cut diagonally from the corners to the stone, with a standard power saw using a masonary blade, for whatever reason the four pieces will give way. You could also rent one of the huge masonary cutters and get close, then, slowly but surely chisel away the remainder. If its a floating slab square form above ground, its going to be easier. If its been post hole dug, plunked in, then of course you have your work cut out for you. I don't claim to be an authority on anything, but I have done this within recent weeks, for someone else, and it went terribly slow but turned out fine. Probably a yard of concrete, involved 50 years old. You can do it ! Lee Creed

Theresa, The concrete should not be set that hard by tomorrow, you should be able to break or chip it away gently. I would not wait long! Ernie At 07:44 PM 10/09/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I just recieved an e-mail from a relative that a tombstone of our ancestor >was found newly set in concrete in Bethel Cemetery, Wayne Twsp.(?), >Hamilton Co. Does anyone know how long it takes the concrete to set. Could >the stone still be removed without harming it if the concrete is still wet >tomorrow? > >With the Boy Scout thing, the condition of Mt. Pleasant Cemetery in >Jackson Twsp. and now this I am NOT happy with what is going on in >Hamilton Co.I'm ready to go on the warpath with cemetery education. > Theresa

Larry, You have put a lot of thought into this, and I also would like to see the certification idea revived. I had shared some Ideas with Katherine Dill back in November 2002, and we discussed the idea briefly on this list in February 2003. You have taken the idea a little further with your idea of the "governing body" to determine the "standards", "performance objectives" and "testing" required to be a "Certified Cemetery Restorationist". One thing I did not see in your ideas (unless I missed it) is determining who will be the "qualified instructors" to teach this certification program, something else the governing body will need to determine standards for. I have been involved in Fire Service Education and Certification for quite a few years now, and have some ideas on the education end of the certification process that I think will help, and would very much like to be involved in this again if you get enough interest from the group to make this a reality. I have done presentations on a small scale locally with a powerpoint presentation on local cemeteries showing various groups some of the "do's and don'ts" of cemetery cleanup and restoration. I would love to be more involved on the teaching part of cemetery restoration. Ernie (I also changed the "Subject:" line of this topic, since we have drifted from "A novel way to raise money for a cemetery" to "Certified Cemetery Restorationist") At 10:15 PM 10/08/2004 -0500, you wrote: >Not too long ago there was some discussion of creating some sort of >certification for cemetery restorationists. This idea, however, didn't seem >to really catch on. I would like to bring this issue back into play. > > >What do you all think? I think something like this would provide the tools >for those involved in cemetery restoration to improve their efforts. Keep >your eye on the big picture. We need to stay focused on the actual results >achieved. Will this help achieve a high standard of quality in the >restoration of the cemeteries? I believe strongly that it would. > >Larry Tippin >Putnam County Coordinator > >--

Concrete cures from the outside inwards, use a square trowel, keep the concrete wet, and pick and slice at it. Use a four inch paintbrush to slather water on as you go. If its alot of concrete and away from the stone, you could pound it off until you get close to the stone. The further you get inwards on the concrete the softer it will be. Lee Creed

WOW! I don't have a saw & have to be to work in Indy at 12:30, so I really hope it's just wet. I would love to see you work sometime though. Thanks for the great ideas. Theresa Lee <[email protected]> wrote: Even if its not, you can cut diagonally from the corners to the stone, with a standard power saw using a masonary blade, for whatever reason the four pieces will give way. You could also rent one of the huge masonary cutters and get close, then, slowly but surely chisel away the remainder. If its a floating slab square form above ground, its going to be easier. If its been post hole dug, plunked in, then of course you have your work cut out for you. I don't claim to be an authority on anything, but I have done this within recent weeks, for someone else, and it went terribly slow but turned out fine. Probably a yard of concrete, involved 50 years old. You can do it ! Lee Creed ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: "Show me the manner in which a nation or community cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender mercies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty to high ideals." --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

Thanks guys. I'm waiting to hear from my distant cousin if the concrete is still wet. I'll run up there tomorrow morning if it is. Theresa Ernie & Connie Lasley <[email protected]> wrote: Theresa, The concrete should not be set that hard by tomorrow, you should be able to break or chip it away gently. I would not wait long! Ernie At 07:44 PM 10/09/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I just recieved an e-mail from a relative that a tombstone of our ancestor >was found newly set in concrete in Bethel Cemetery, Wayne Twsp.(?), >Hamilton Co. Does anyone know how long it takes the concrete to set. Could >the stone still be removed without harming it if the concrete is still wet >tomorrow? > >With the Boy Scout thing, the condition of Mt. Pleasant Cemetery in >Jackson Twsp. and now this I am NOT happy with what is going on in >Hamilton Co.I'm ready to go on the warpath with cemetery education. > Theresa ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Brad Manzenberger < [email protected] > is the INPCRP State Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or comments you may have about the INPCRP. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

Sue, I am trying to find out who is responsible for the cemetery and for setting the stone in concrete. It may have been another misguided relative who did it, with, or without permission. The stone is well over a 100 yrs old & if the concrete is set it's too late. I will contact the township trustee & the Co. cemetery commission Monday morning. I have been talking about the need for pamphlets for trustees, cemetery associations , Boy Scout Councils, schools, libraries,ect. We have to find a way to do this. Educating the general public about what not to do is as important as doing workshops.I am going ahead with my INPCRP business card idea. Theresa Sue Silver <[email protected]> wrote: It is my understanding that the gravestones in cemeteries are PERSONAL property, not the property of the cemetery operators/owners. WHO authorized this "repair" of your family member's stone? That would be my first question. The second question will be do they have insurance and, if not, how are they going to pay for repairing the damage they authorized to be done??? Everywhere I've gone in CA that they have someone in charge, they have always required that we have the permission of descendant family in order to repair stones. Maybe it's time for INPCRP to being to mail out info sheets to the Boy Scout Council's in the counties where the scouts work in cemeteries. There's enough published info out there that you could even ask the local libraries to place in their reference libraries. Maybe someone will find it and learn before they do... Sue Silver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Theresa Berghoff" To: Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 7:44 PM Subject: [INPCRP] screaming > I just recieved an e-mail from a relative that a tombstone of our ancestor was found newly set in concrete in Bethel Cemetery, Wayne Twsp.(?), Hamilton Co. Does anyone know how long it takes the concrete to set. Could the stone still be removed without harming it if the concrete is still wet tomorrow? > > With the Boy Scout thing, the condition of Mt. Pleasant Cemetery in Jackson Twsp. and now this I am NOT happy with what is going on in Hamilton Co.I'm ready to go on the warpath with cemetery education. > Theresa > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- > "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families > are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is > undisguised. This is a cemetery. > "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, > historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. > "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved > in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - > not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family > memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. > "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of > yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery > exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." > --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

It is my understanding that the gravestones in cemeteries are PERSONAL property, not the property of the cemetery operators/owners. WHO authorized this "repair" of your family member's stone? That would be my first question. The second question will be do they have insurance and, if not, how are they going to pay for repairing the damage they authorized to be done??? Everywhere I've gone in CA that they have someone in charge, they have always required that we have the permission of descendant family in order to repair stones. Maybe it's time for INPCRP to being to mail out info sheets to the Boy Scout Council's in the counties where the scouts work in cemeteries. There's enough published info out there that you could even ask the local libraries to place in their reference libraries. Maybe someone will find it and learn before they do... Sue Silver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Theresa Berghoff" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 7:44 PM Subject: [INPCRP] screaming > I just recieved an e-mail from a relative that a tombstone of our ancestor was found newly set in concrete in Bethel Cemetery, Wayne Twsp.(?), Hamilton Co. Does anyone know how long it takes the concrete to set. Could the stone still be removed without harming it if the concrete is still wet tomorrow? > > With the Boy Scout thing, the condition of Mt. Pleasant Cemetery in Jackson Twsp. and now this I am NOT happy with what is going on in Hamilton Co.I'm ready to go on the warpath with cemetery education. > Theresa > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- > "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families > are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is > undisguised. This is a cemetery. > "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, > historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. > "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved > in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - > not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family > memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. > "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of > yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery > exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." > --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA > >

I think it would be a great idea to have workshops in each region. I have had to miss workshops, because they are either far away, or I work so many saturdays, it's hard to coordinate a time to go. Amy

I just recieved an e-mail from a relative that a tombstone of our ancestor was found newly set in concrete in Bethel Cemetery, Wayne Twsp.(?), Hamilton Co. Does anyone know how long it takes the concrete to set. Could the stone still be removed without harming it if the concrete is still wet tomorrow? With the Boy Scout thing, the condition of Mt. Pleasant Cemetery in Jackson Twsp. and now this I am NOT happy with what is going on in Hamilton Co.I'm ready to go on the warpath with cemetery education. Theresa --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.

Brad, I'm glad you are ok with taking care of the website, being list administrator, and media coordinator. You are doing a fantastic job! I just thought we should revisit the recommendations Lois made, so we could cover everything, and not have anyone get overwhelmed & burnt out. I hope Angela Tielking will be the official spokesperson for legislative issues. Angela,if you are out there, please think about it. You have done a great job so far. You have a good grasp of the issues, you are very articulate, and when you speak people can tell your heart is in this work. Larry, Wow . You have put a lot of thought into the idea of certification.I will have to read your e-mail again to absorb it all. We have been down this road before. I remember there were some people who had been doing restoration for a long time who kind of took offense at the idea. In a way I understand that. I also know there are alot of people in this group who are very independent and some days not 3 of us could agree on a thing. You are however right about the need to be recognized as preservationist with some training and experience. And we don't want every Tom, Dick, & Harry out running around claiming to know how to restore tombstones & making a bigger mess. So I guess this needs more discussion. Are there any other states with certification? Does the Association for Gravestone Studies or the National Center for Preservation Technology and Training give anything to their workshop participants? Theresa Berghoff Brad Manzenberger <[email protected]> wrote: Lots of great ideas Theresa! As far as breaking down the state coordinator, I have no problem with the site, list admin and being the contact point for the media, etc. I think it would be better if someone else coordinated legislative and educational aspects of it. I can help, but I don't have the time to head them up. I am going to add the Hall of Fame to the site. Walt suggested it recently and it is a very good idea. We need to show the positive side of this so people in our communities can see that these places can be fixed. Hopefully that will generate more interest. There is not a main Hall of Fame main page yet- please stand by. I have placed one cemetery in the Hall of Fame- Spring Friends Cemetery in Hendricks Co. This is the cemetery Jessica Felix has her students working in. It can be accessed at http://www.inpcrp.org/HallofFame/hendricks_spring_friends.html. I have also added a page for Tipton Co. which can be accessed through the county coordinators page. Joan has sent me some more pictures and info that I will get posted soon. If you have any candidates for the Hall of Fame please send them to me, but be patient about getting them posted. I've had some free time and am taking advantage of the great weather to get some restoration work done in Franklin. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: Theresa Berghoff [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 4:06 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INPCRP] A novel way to raise money for a cemetery I'm glad this calendar/ fund raising discussion has come round to the structure of the INPCRP. Some of us have been talking about this recently. While it would be nice to have money for cemetery projects, the structure needed for a 501c3 organization could be a burden and go against the grain of some of us independent minded preservationist. I do think that we need more structure than we have. We have made great strides this summer. Having Brad come on as webmaster & update the website has made a world of difference. When Lois resigned, she broke down the State Coordinators job description into 3 parts-webmaster- spokes person to do PR & work with the Legislature - list monitor. We need to think about where we want to go & what positions we need to get there .We have 2 new County coordinators, but most of the 92 counties are not covered. We need more visibility, that's what the t-shirts and requests for letters to legislators,and county prosecutors is about. Most of the state doesn't know we exist. Having some organization is helpful when we go to the Legislature. Education is needed in these areas: 1 cemetery care, maintenance, & repair guidelines for Township Trustees, Cemetery Associations & the people they hire. 2 preservation project guidelines for Boy Scout & Girl Scout Councils, schools ect. 3 cemetery visitation guides for libraries, & genealogy societies. 4 recording methods for County Recorders . 5 cemetery law for the general public Maybe we could joint venture some education material with the IN Township Association, IN Historical Society, Historic Landmarks Foundation, or DNR-DHPA. Other ideas I have heard: more workshops & work days more school projects like Rhonda Stoffer & Jessica Felix are doing work with the Ball State Landscape Architecture & Historic Preservation program meet with IN Prosecutors group create a Hall of Fame for restored cemeteries vandalism response info for cemeteries reunion for workshop people Scott talked about doing a book of restored cemeteries So what about any of this? Theresa ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== THIS IS A CEMETERY ----- "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is undisguised. This is a cemetery. "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence, historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched. "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life - not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living. "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always." --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.