Only if they discover oil on it... -----Original Message----- From: Sue Silver [mailto:ssilver1951@jps.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:20 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INPCRP] preservation Another thing... Find out if Kentucky has a law similar to California's Government Code section 182. That says that where title fails for lack of a legal heir or next of kin, it reverts to the public. If Kentucky has such a statute, perhaps it can be used to ask the local area government to step in to help protect and preserve it. (Yikes! Did I say that?? The government??? <grin>) Sue Silver ----- Original Message ----- From: ScotStout@aol.com To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: [INPCRP] preservation hello. i joined this list about a week ago looking for some guidance. i have a lucky but unique situation. my distant cousins and i have just begun in the last few days to correspond with each other concerning our ancestors' cemetery in kentucky. short history: the earliest known burial was 1826. the cemetery contains soldiers from the civil war, and at least one from the revolutionary war. there was a church that owned the cemetery, but the church closed in 1868. the cemetery has been overgrown at least since 1950. the public valuation office says nobody owns the land. it is also not located in a town. other than tombstones being knocked over, no vandalism has occurred to my knowledge. the cemetery is hidden in trees, surrounded by tobacco fields. the farmer who owns the surrounding land has piled brush in front of the entrance to keep ATVs out of it, so at least he respects it. my #1 question is, how do my cousins and i go about preserving this cemetery if there is no owner, and no one can buy it? i have looked at a few web sites, including savinggraves.com and have found some valuable information, but nothing pertaining to a cemetery that is without an owner. we're starting completely from scratch here, so any suggestions are most welcome. sincerely, scot stout ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

Well said, Angela. I also have great respect for the rules you cite. Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: Angela To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: RE: [INPCRP] Clarification! Hello everyone, I have kept quiet for a long time because I am frankly tired of all the fighting and lack of respect for one another that takes place frequently on this list. But, in this case, I have to stand by Mark. Any one who knows cemetery restoration knows using concrete is a no-no. No excuses. I recently toured another cemetery where the township trustee was wanting to do a "good thing" and laid the stones on their backs in concrete. He did the absolute worst thing you can do. I wanted to cry. I believe if you don't know what you are doing, wait for someone to do it who does. What are the rules of cemetery restoration? 1) Do no harm 2) If in doubt, consult an expert. I understand Madison Co's frustration. Bless your hearts, but please research before proceeding. Don't think of now, but what the repairs will do to the stones in 10, 20, 50 years. Respectfully, Angela Tielking -----Original Message----- From: Tom Hull [mailto:thull@iquest.net] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 9:01 AM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [INPCRP] Clarification! As to the purpose of the Indiana Pioneer Cemetery Restoration Project, is it not to support the preservation of pioneer cemeteries or does it only foster one method of restoration--that endorsed by Mark Davis? Is this a broad spectrum, politically pro-active coalition or is it a myopic "my-way-or-no-way" social club? Somebody clarify this issue for me. Melody Madison County ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project only. Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. Thank you. ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project only. Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. Thank you.

On another note, maybe the recent tax assessor's haven't taken the time to locate any original deed from the wayback-past. I tend to find a lot of laziness in government. They somehow find it easier to say something doesn't exist than to go look for it. In California, nonprofit cemeteries are exempt from taxation. Kentucky may have something like this or not so that it may not seem important to the assessor. On the other hand, if a Church owned it and left town, so to speak, there yet could be a deed on it. If you found the deed and you have a way to locate a synod or main group that Church was organized under, perhaps they would step in as successor trustees for the cemetery and sign it over to the county so that it could receive some care over the years. Especially after all the descendants of your family are gone. Sue Silver ----- Original Message ----- From: KidClerk@aol.com To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] preservation Scot: It sounds like you have many obstacles to overcome on this and please keep the list updated as to your progress. But keep in mind this... I would think if you really wanted to do work in that cemetery, it would be hard for anyone to keep you from doing it. I mean, who's gonna press trespassing charges against you? :) kyle, that's what i thought, too. then i found out that it was owned by a church that closed in 1868. the church was not sold, and eventually it collapsed and someone (maybe farmers?) cleared the rubble. the courthouse says that there is no deed to the land, no record of ownership, and no taxes paid on it. i would think the land would automatically revert to either the state or county, but every state is different. i'm still trying to find out if that's true for kentucky or not. ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: "Show me the manner in which a nation or community cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender mercies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty to high ideals."

Well, then, isn't this just the type of thing that started all the other problems in the past when the List Administrator had to monitor the exchanges? It is this type of sniping that hurts everyone. But more than any living person, it hurts the dead in the cemeteries you're all trying to help. Please don't do this to them. Sue Silver CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Hull To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:00 AM Subject: [INPCRP] Clarification! As to the purpose of the Indiana Pioneer Cemetery Restoration Project, is it not to support the preservation of pioneer cemeteries or does it only foster one method of restoration--that endorsed by Mark Davis? Is this a broad spectrum, politically pro-active coalition or is it a myopic "my-way-or-no-way" social club? Somebody clarify this issue for me. Melody Madison County ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project only. Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. Thank you.

The email list or message board as it is referred to is a wonderful tool. But the webpage/website that INPCRP provided the "group" with a mechanism to really promote the methodologies and information you've developed and acquired over the years. It also provided the group with an appearance of being a force to be reconned with in terms of seeking legislative change and in fighting "city hall." It is a shame if the site is gone. I know that it was extremely helpful to me. It also inspired me to start the El Dorado County (CA) Pioneer Cemeteries Commission website to get the word out about the problems and efforts. I hope you can resurrect the INPCRP webpage/site. Sue Silver ----- Original Message ----- From: Rich Green To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Message Board? Hello Listers: I guess I didn't understand the implication that this is now somehow just a "Message Board"? What else was it supposed to be? I don't know about anyone else, but in my mind this always has been a Message Board. Message boards are an extremely efficient and cost effective way to share announcements, thoughts, ideas, techniques and suggestions across a fairly wide and open audience. With regard to the INPCRP web pages, it looks as though the last web site manager removed the pages and or left the host site in some sort of disarray, and that no one else in the group has been authorized to go repair and maintain it. This is unfortunate. The INPCRP web presence is probably an important draw, an Internet billboard of sorts, but the recent web site downtime has little effect on the important work of restoring cemeteries that has most certainly continued regardless of whether there is a web site or not. To put this in perspective, consider just how long the web pages have probably been absent, and that only just recently is someone writing the list to ask why? The INPCRP message board, on the other hand, seems to be stable even if it doesn't include any graphics or links to other informative sites. There are no leaders, no followers...just a diverse group of folks getting together to share information or to ask for assistance. This has always been a place where ideas are freely exchanged. If you don't like or agree with a particular topic, you are free to disagree or simply delete the post or thread. And perhaps more importantly, the Message Board won't be turned off when any part of the group decides to take their HTML marbles and go home. I suspect that some folks on the list were offended by the argumentative nature of discussions this Spring, but that for the most part this hasn't changed anything. The INPCRP Message Board does seem a bit light in terms of total posts here of late, but I imagine that many people are out there taking advantage of the summer season and working hard in their respective areas of the state. I know we've had a busy summer up until just recently with little time to write. Long live the Message Board! Rich Green Historic Archaeological Research 4338 Hadley Court West Lafayette, IN 47906 Office: (765) 464-8735 Mobile: (765) 427-4082 www.har-indy.com ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)

California law states that all land in the state is owned. It is privately owned or publicly owned. That is why the Govt Code Sec 182 provided legislatively that where title to property fails it reverts to the public. That would, of course, be the natural regression of things since all land was in the public domain, except those lands confirmed under agreements with other governments. ----- Original Message ----- From: KidClerk@aol.com To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 3:29 AM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] preservation In a message dated 8/31/2005 7:03:59 PM Central Standard Time, ScotStout@aol.com writes: > the public valuation office says nobody owns > the land. it is also not located in a town. I realize I'm not familiar with Kentucky customs, traditions, and laws being from Indiana....but I just don't see how there can be land that 'nobody' owns. I thought all of the US had been claimed, oh....over 100 years ago. Now, maybe no one is paying taxes on it....but someone has to own it, don't they? Kyle D. Conrad ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

> On 8/31/05, Adhough1@aol.com <Adhough1@aol.com> wrote: > > So, the choice is, you either restore with some not > > so great techniques, or you just ignore it and let the cemetery stay in > > disarray until it's finally gone all together. and as for lack of reaction from > > this group, it may be because it was decided awhile ago that this was just a > > message board, so many people arn't really getting involved in it anymore. > > > > Amy Terry > > Madison County > > Good morning everyone, Amy, we have not reduced ourselfs to a message boards here. This is an email list where people can participate with questions and dicussions asking for guidance. Many of us on the email list have worked hard in our Counties to learn and promote correct restoration. This is a pretty big job to take on by anyone, and there are more pieces and part to learn that I ever dreamed. That is why I continue to promote the workshop held each year Spring and Fall. These workshops are teaching proper techniques and it give folks the opportunity to come and learn some of different aspects of cemetery restoration. We have seen people from many states all around Indiana. Learning cemetery restoration should be an ongoing effort. I certainly learn something new each year. And hope I continue to see some of you again, one workshop is not enough. As far as the INPCRP WebPages, this is a real frustration. We have no controls over this problem right now. They were great pages with good information that answered questions. We all miss the reference links they had. I believe they will return sometime soon. I can't give you an exact day right now. We have plenty of intelligent folks here with good guidance, some I really look forward to sitting down with in the future. So please hang on and continue sharing questions. Peace L.A. ~Tippecanoe County Indiana Saturday, September 17th. "Assembling the Pieces of History" Advanced Hands-On Cemetery Restoration Workshop 8:30 a.m.-5:00 p.m Contact Corrie E. Cook or for a brochure file in pdf, click here Sept. 17, 2005 http://www.indianahistory.org/lhs/Advanced%20Cemetery%202005.pdf For more information contact her at 317-233-8913 ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project only. Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. Thank you.

In a message dated 8/31/2005 7:03:59 PM Central Standard Time, ScotStout@aol.com writes: > the public valuation office says nobody owns > the land. it is also not located in a town. I realize I'm not familiar with Kentucky customs, traditions, and laws being from Indiana....but I just don't see how there can be land that 'nobody' owns. I thought all of the US had been claimed, oh....over 100 years ago. Now, maybe no one is paying taxes on it....but someone has to own it, don't they? Kyle D. Conrad

In a message dated 8/31/2005 8:45:50 PM Central Standard Time, Adhough1@aol.com writes: > and as for lack of reaction from this > group, it may be because it was decided awhile ago that this was just a > message board, so many people arn't really getting involved in it anymore Not sure whether to take that as a slam or not...but it also could be that as a message board, we have cussed and discussed this topic on several occasions over the past seven or eight years and aside from recognizing that these techniques aren't the most acceptable method, there isn't much more to add. It's much more enjoyable to tout one's positives than to dwell on the negatives. This message board has been doing a great job of that lately, wouldn't you say? Kyle D. Conrad

Lou, <www.cemeteries-madison-co-in.com/CottrellRestoration.htm>. In addition to comments made by Mark Davis about setting stones in cement they also are epoxying stacked monuments. I'm not sure what they are doing the aluminum, but it looks like they are epoxying it to backs of marble stones. Sorry, but I believe we have the responsibility to at least read A Graveyard Preservation Primer. Using epoxy to stack the parts of a monument is harder and far more expensive than doing it the right way & making up a batch of stack mix. They have put those markers at risk by using epoxy in that manner. I personally would hate for any one to look at that message and think that it's the way to do those repairs. Cindy -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/05

First of all, I think you are missing the point. Yes, unfortunatly, they have been restoring using concrete. We all know it's not a good thing, but who are we to judge them when they have spent 6 years restoring a huge mess. This is a cemetery that was bulldozed and pushed into a ditch, bodies and all, by some idiot who lived near there.. .. The Madison Co. Cemetery Commission has spent all these years working to restore it, after what was done to it, and they have certainly researched it to full extent. They are very proud of what they have accomplished and I think you should be a little more understanding of the situation before assuming that they are just out there throwing stones here and there. I know we all wish that every person out there is restoring the cemeterys up to this group's standards, but let's face it, there are hundreds of cemeterys needing restoration, and only a few people out there actually doing the hard part. So, the choice is, you either restore with some not so great techniques, or you just ignore it and let the cemetery stay in disarray until it's finally gone all together. and as for lack of reaction from this group, it may be because it was decided awhile ago that this was just a message board, so many people arn't really getting involved in it anymore. Amy Terry Madison County

hello. i joined this list about a week ago looking for some guidance. i have a lucky but unique situation. my distant cousins and i have just begun in the last few days to correspond with each other concerning our ancestors' cemetery in kentucky. short history: the earliest known burial was 1826. the cemetery contains soldiers from the civil war, and at least one from the revolutionary war. there was a church that owned the cemetery, but the church closed in 1868. the cemetery has been overgrown at least since 1950. the public valuation office says nobody owns the land. it is also not located in a town. other than tombstones being knocked over, no vandalism has occurred to my knowledge. the cemetery is hidden in trees, surrounded by tobacco fields. the farmer who owns the surrounding land has piled brush in front of the entrance to keep ATVs out of it, so at least he respects it. my #1 question is, how do my cousins and i go about preserving this cemetery if there is no owner, and no one can buy it? i have looked at a few web sites, including savinggraves.com and have found some valuable information, but nothing pertaining to a cemetery that is without an owner. we're starting completely from scratch here, so any suggestions are most welcome. sincerely, scot stout

Well I couldn't access these photo's from anywhere, so I haven't a clue. Lee Creed

Cindy, You have to know this bunch to understand what happened at Cottrell cemetery, especially papaw. If you have information, comments, or questions about Madison County cemeteries, please contact any one of the members of the 2005 Madison County Cemetery Commission: Ranny Simmons, chairperson -- Ranny@indy.net John Brundage, -- papawB@aol.com UEB Henry Co., IN INPCRP ----- Original Message ----- From: "cklyons" <cklyons@comcast.net> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:43 PM Subject: [INPCRP] Madison Ctny > Mark, > > I'm glad someone at least commented on those pictures. Has this list > degenerated to the point that we don't even promote correct repairs > anymore? > I am as grossed out by the lack of reaction within the group as I am by > the > vandalism done to that cemetery by folks who call themselves > restorationists. To me, anyone who starts 'repairing' stones without > doing > a lick of research or training is vandalizing the graveyard. There's just > not a polite way to say it. > > If that mess doesn't convince anyone that this group or someone needs to > step up and take control, I don't know what will. > Cindy W > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/05 > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of > England > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals." > >

Another thing... Find out if Kentucky has a law similar to California's Government Code section 182. That says that where title fails for lack of a legal heir or next of kin, it reverts to the public. If Kentucky has such a statute, perhaps it can be used to ask the local area government to step in to help protect and preserve it. (Yikes! Did I say that?? The government??? <grin>) Sue Silver ----- Original Message ----- From: ScotStout@aol.com To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: [INPCRP] preservation hello. i joined this list about a week ago looking for some guidance. i have a lucky but unique situation. my distant cousins and i have just begun in the last few days to correspond with each other concerning our ancestors' cemetery in kentucky. short history: the earliest known burial was 1826. the cemetery contains soldiers from the civil war, and at least one from the revolutionary war. there was a church that owned the cemetery, but the church closed in 1868. the cemetery has been overgrown at least since 1950. the public valuation office says nobody owns the land. it is also not located in a town. other than tombstones being knocked over, no vandalism has occurred to my knowledge. the cemetery is hidden in trees, surrounded by tobacco fields. the farmer who owns the surrounding land has piled brush in front of the entrance to keep ATVs out of it, so at least he respects it. my #1 question is, how do my cousins and i go about preserving this cemetery if there is no owner, and no one can buy it? i have looked at a few web sites, including savinggraves.com and have found some valuable information, but nothing pertaining to a cemetery that is without an owner. we're starting completely from scratch here, so any suggestions are most welcome. sincerely, scot stout ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

I believe a few years back the Kentucky Attorney General created a program for such cemeteries. Check the AG's website in Kentucky and see if you can't find info there. If not, does someone on INPCRP remember that activity around 2000-2001? Bill Spurlock - do you recall it? Sue Silver CA Saving Graves ----- Original Message ----- From: ScotStout@aol.com To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: [INPCRP] preservation hello. i joined this list about a week ago looking for some guidance. i have a lucky but unique situation. my distant cousins and i have just begun in the last few days to correspond with each other concerning our ancestors' cemetery in kentucky. short history: the earliest known burial was 1826. the cemetery contains soldiers from the civil war, and at least one from the revolutionary war. there was a church that owned the cemetery, but the church closed in 1868. the cemetery has been overgrown at least since 1950. the public valuation office says nobody owns the land. it is also not located in a town. other than tombstones being knocked over, no vandalism has occurred to my knowledge. the cemetery is hidden in trees, surrounded by tobacco fields. the farmer who owns the surrounding land has piled brush in front of the entrance to keep ATVs out of it, so at least he respects it. my #1 question is, how do my cousins and i go about preserving this cemetery if there is no owner, and no one can buy it? i have looked at a few web sites, including savinggraves.com and have found some valuable information, but nothing pertaining to a cemetery that is without an owner. we're starting completely from scratch here, so any suggestions are most welcome. sincerely, scot stout ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

Mark, I'm glad someone at least commented on those pictures. Has this list degenerated to the point that we don't even promote correct repairs anymore? I am as grossed out by the lack of reaction within the group as I am by the vandalism done to that cemetery by folks who call themselves restorationists. To me, anyone who starts 'repairing' stones without doing a lick of research or training is vandalizing the graveyard. There's just not a polite way to say it. If that mess doesn't convince anyone that this group or someone needs to step up and take control, I don't know what will. Cindy W -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/05

Thanks for passing along the word! We're excited about the workshop and looking forward to seeing Walt, Micki, L.A., and all old and new friends. Kind regards, Corrie Corrie E. Cook Assistant, Local History Services Indiana Historical Society 450 West Ohio Street Indianapolis, IN 46202 317.233.8913 317.234.0427 fax ccook@indianahistory.org www.indianahistory.org -----Original Message----- From: Sam Cline [mailto:scline@hoosierweb.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:09 AM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [INPCRP] Cemetery Restoration Workshop I received the following information yesterday from the Indiana Historical Society. Thought I would pass it on in case any of you might be interested. Sam Cline Assembling the Pieces of History: Advanced Hands-On Cemetery Restoration Workshop Saturday, September 17, 8:30 a.m.-5:00 p.m. Location: Friendship Cemetery, Johnson County This full-day workshop will focus on advanced cemetery restoration techniques. Topics covered will include fixing simple breaks, resetting obelisks, determining the original location of a stone once it's been moved, and how to mix stone dust to fill in cracks. Most of the workshop will be spent in the cemetery, where participants will gain valuable hands-on experience repairing stones. Participants must have attended one of the Indiana Historical Society's Basic Cemetery Preservation workshops or have prior cemetery preservation experience. Registration deadline: September 10 but registrations will be accepted until the workshop is full Visit http://www.indianahistory.org/lhs/workshops.html for more information and to register or call 317.233.8913. Corrie E. Cook Assistant, Local History Services Indiana Historical Society 450 West Ohio Street Indianapolis, IN 46202 317.233.8913 317.234.0427 fax ccook@indianahistory.org www.indianahistory.org ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project only. Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. Thank you.

Yeah, I know the guy that runs Saving Graves real well... I've not had any emails pointing out these problems; I'm not sure who you were contacting. Normally this type of email comes directly either myself or the US Coordinator and we try to jump right on them and make the corrections If you can give me some specific pages that have broken links I'll see to it that they are fixed. I'll look at the contact form and see what going on there. State pages are all listed at the following URL: http://www.savinggraves-us.org/states.htm Where we have county pages those would be linked directly off the specific state pages. However only the states that have coordinators will have County pages and then only when there are county coordinators. I've been involved with a number of other major projects and will be the first one to admit that I've been somewhat "lax' with Saving Graves but I'm trying to get back to working on the site on a daily basis. Sometimes this works, sometimes not. William Spurlock Saving Graves -----Original Message----- From: scotstout@aol.com [mailto:scotstout@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:54 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [INPCRP] savinggraves.com does anyone on this list have any connection with savinggraves.com? i have been having trouble with that web site. there are lots of broken links, and even though there are pages describing the need for state and county web page volunteers, i can't find any link to a list of the state and county web pages. there is a form to use to contact, but the form doesn't work. i am unable to to get any response from any of the e-mail addresses that do work. has anyone else experienced these problems? scot ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

does anyone on this list have any connection with savinggraves.com? i have been having trouble with that web site. there are lots of broken links, and even though there are pages describing the need for state and county web page volunteers, i can't find any link to a list of the state and county web pages. there is a form to use to contact, but the form doesn't work. i am unable to to get any response from any of the e-mail addresses that do work. has anyone else experienced these problems? scot