Well, Kyle, I started this mess by naively thinking that members of a pioneer cemetery restoration list would enjoying seeing that we'd saved the Cottrell from extinction. Since we'd been asked to move to a different topic, I wanted to finish what I started. I thought I'd bring the subject "full circle" as we say in the literary world. Your negative, critical comments as to the timeliness of the closure gives me the opportunity to add that the Cottrell Cemetery is preserved and those stones in cement will be standing for a good long time just like their predecessors in other Madison County cemeteries. That is what cemetery restoration is about and that is the bottom line, so to speak. Melody At 10:39 AM 9/9/2005, you wrote: >Melody: > >The whole point to all of this discussion has been regarding your methods, >not your intentions. I congratulate you on all of your hard work and >dedication...it's just that many on here believe there to be more >effective and proper >ways that would look even better than what you can accomplish. I would guess >that many of those you cite who are pleased with your work base that on the >condition before your work and after. That's not to say they understand >what you >are doing or how you are doing it...and quite possibly don't care as long as >you are doing something. But if the facts were known to all of them, and >they >saw what other options were available and what other end results could be >had, then maybe they would agree that there are better ways. It is >unfortunate >that from everything I have read from the Madison Co posts on this list that >these same people may never be exposed to these techniques unless they travel >outside of your county to compare the other options that have been proposed. >And while I will agree your Green Twp. trustee has expressed his >appreciation, >he is also on record as saying that you may not be doing the work exactly >correct. The fact that he is OK with that is as troubling to me as the >work being >done. Again, I think this topic is at an impasse with regards to Madison >County, so the best we can hope for is to have others that read these >posts do >their diligent research before undertaking any work. > >Kyle D. Conrad > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of >"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)

Melody: The whole point to all of this discussion has been regarding your methods, not your intentions. I congratulate you on all of your hard work and dedication...it's just that many on here believe there to be more effective and proper ways that would look even better than what you can accomplish. I would guess that many of those you cite who are pleased with your work base that on the condition before your work and after. That's not to say they understand what you are doing or how you are doing it...and quite possibly don't care as long as you are doing something. But if the facts were known to all of them, and they saw what other options were available and what other end results could be had, then maybe they would agree that there are better ways. It is unfortunate that from everything I have read from the Madison Co posts on this list that these same people may never be exposed to these techniques unless they travel outside of your county to compare the other options that have been proposed. And while I will agree your Green Twp. trustee has expressed his appreciation, he is also on record as saying that you may not be doing the work exactly correct. The fact that he is OK with that is as troubling to me as the work being done. Again, I think this topic is at an impasse with regards to Madison County, so the best we can hope for is to have others that read these posts do their diligent research before undertaking any work. Kyle D. Conrad

Mr. Conrad, In response to your statement, "...it is your group that has to answer for what you are doing and how you are doing it. If you can look at your end result and not be bothered with what you have done, then more power to you," I answer that yes, we can live with the end results and so can everyone else involved with the Cottrell Cemetery. To summarize: 1. Our Madison County Board of Commissioners, who funds our restorations, will be very satisfied that we finished the entire work well under the projected price or just repairing the erosion problems--$75,000. 2. The Green Township Trustee Greg Valentine has already expressed his appreciation of and support for our efforts. 3. The residents living on property surrounding this burial ground are very happy now with this visually attractive memorial. 4. Most importantly, the descendents of those buried at this location are extremely pleased with the outcome--the individual graves and the entire site. Melody MCCC

Diane asked in a previous post: "I'm wondering why you as the "person in charge" (so to speak) don't require the contractors you hire to do a job properly? " You've identified a misunderstanding that perhaps others on this list also have. The Madison County Cemeterty Commission is not in charge of hiring the the mowers for the cemeteries. That is the function of the individual township trustees working on various degrees of limited budgets. We restore a pioneer cemetery, and when completed, we turn it over to the trustee for maintenance. That is the method of operation here in Madison County. Next question? Melody

One of the things that I try to teach is that under any circumstances you should never, ever leave anything on a stone for the next rain to wash off. -----Original Message----- From: scotstout@aol.com [mailto:scotstout@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:55 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INPCRP] stone rubbing thanks sharon and others. that's very helpful and informative. regarding reading difficult tombstones, i have tried two solutions that work well for me. 1. i use photoshop to increase the contrast of the photographic image -- that usually works unless the stone has a lot of stains. 2. when at the cemetery, rather than use the big-no-no-shaving-cream, my cousins brought white corn meal & rubbed it gently over the stone. of course, it went into the depressions and made the stone very easy to read as well as photograph. and the rain washes it out and it decomposes, being 100% organic. (please tell me that was ok to do.) scot -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Howell <sshowell@indy.net> To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:36:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [INPCRP] stone rubbing Lightweight Pellon or similar non-woven interfacing from a fabric store is best to use. Sheets of plain newsprint have also been used, but they can tear easily. Use a wax made for cemetery rubbings or a fat crayon held with it's long side against the stone. Chalk can be used, but it will rub off. I'd take preservative spray or hair spray to spray the paper done with chalk, after removing it from the stone, but before rolling it up to put in the car. The best way to attach the paper to the stone is to have the paper big enough wrap all the way around the stone -- tape the paper to itself. A second way is to have one person hold and another person rub. Anytime anything is taped to the stone, it had the potential of damaging the stone when removed. Therefore, I would only use low-tack painter's tape (the blue stuff) and CAREFULLY take it off as soon as the rubbing is done. I used the rubbing I did as a background to a display case for Halloween. I have photos of all my ancestors' stones. Easier to store, and sometimes easier to read, especially if there are lichens on the stone. Sharon Howell ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project only. Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. Thank you. ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

Hello the list, This discussion seems to have reached an impasse and has become more argumentative than mutually beneficial or informative. It is unfortunate that this much bandwidth gets wasted on such an important topic with so little anticipation of understanding or compromise. Why don't we see if we can condense and recap what has been said before going any further? Firstly, I'm sure that everyone will agree that both parties to this argument are on the same page when it comes to saving abandoned, neglected and or vandalized cemeteries. I don't think that either side questions the other's motives in this regard. I think it's important to understand that the folks on this list are interested in and actively promoting 'restoration' of pioneer cemeteries...thus the name Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project. The restoration process necessarily involves an effort to restore broken and damaged monuments, as closely as is possible, to their original state. Mr. Hains rightly argues the case for proactive protection of cemetery features, and in particular the need to understand the problems inherent to perpetual cemetery maintenance. Obviously, the potential for damage by careless mowing and maintenance isn't just a Madison County issue. This is a valid topic for in-depth discussion by cemetery restorationists. But, this is where the two sides part ways. The repairs that are being made using methods intentionally designed to prevent further damage during mowing and routine maintenance are not only contrary to restoration processes recognized by the INPCRP, but very probably prohibit any future restoration of these monuments. This argument then is really about the differences between monument 'repair' and monument 'restoration'. It occurs to me that we could get a lot closer on repair vs. restoration methods if the problem of damage caused during ongoing cemetery maintenance can somehow be satisfactorily resolved, or at the very least minimized. Maybe someone should start a new thread that addresses the maintenance and mowing issues? In the meanwhile, I think it's adversarial and impolite to continue this discussion with 'Madison County' as the subject. This is not just a Madison County issue. I hope that the next poster will continue this discussion in the spirit of compromise. Best Regards, Rich Green Historic Archaeological Research 4338 Hadley Court West Lafayette, IN 47906 Office: (765) 464-8735 Mobile: (765) 427-4082 www.har-indy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Usa10sfgaa@aol.com To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Re: Madison County In a message dated 9/8/2005 10:03:54 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, jlfelix24@yahoo.com writes: I sit back and just watch this list a lot, but I decided to chime in this time--about Madison county. You know what? Based on the posts I have read on this board, I have gotten the impression that most of you here live in counties that have governments that have NOTHING to do with maintaining and MOWING the cemeteries, let alone restoring them. The impression I am getting from a fair number of folks here is that private individuals put in their money and time to "save" this or that cemetery and then they find some loving and caring individual to maintain it and mow it in perpetuity. That very few of your counties have any funded governmental system, volunteer or otherwise to identify and restore, much less maintain the old cemeteries. Thus in many counties, people like you whom I am responding to, fix up whole cemeteries, including research, clearing of vegetation, landscaping, fencing, etc, to as near original as humanly possible with donations from private concerns or individuals or out of your own pocket and then pay someone out of your own pockets or are lucky enough to have some very caring and careful volunteers, who mow and maintain the cemeteries you restore to a higher standard than we individuals here in Madison county are able to do. You don't have to worry about private contractors working for the local government, being paid by the job, and driving Zero-turn radius Xmart, or Skagg mowers that cut grass at 10 mph, and have a mower deck made from 1/4" thick steel, running into any, let alone some number of headstones and damaging them. That's great. But at the same time the same individuals are concerned that there are many cemeteries they can't fix or maintain. They see cemetereis that are decaying and they know they can't get to them. Here is our list of cemeteries _Cemetery List_ (http://www.cemeteries-madison-co-in.com/list.htm) . The vast majority of those listed that are not designated as "destroyed" have been restored and are maintained by the county using paid contractors. And the list is complete for the whole county based on the information we have now, though as happens at times, we are just now finding out about another one that may eventually be added to the list. But then again, the list in my old reference from the early days of the MCC has the Cottrell cemetery listed as "destroyed". Who are the great people that maintain the cemeteries you restore? People that do it out of love and not money for decades and take such great care with the work you have done? Rob Hains ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of "UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST@rootsweb.com or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST@rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)

Mr. Hains, You wrote: You don't have to worry about private contractors working for the local government, being paid by the job, and driving Zero-turn radius Xmart, or Skagg mowers that cut grass at 10 mph, and have a mower deck made from 1/4" thick steel, running into any, let alone some number of headstones and damaging them. As an individual and a business owner who hires private contractors for different purposes, I'm wondering why you as the "person in charge" (so to speak) don't require the contractors you hire to do a job properly? When I hire a contractor to do a job, the job is either done right - to the specifications or requirements I set out in the beginning - or the contractor isn't paid until it *is* done right. If the contractor causes damage, I expect the CONTRACTOR to be responsible for the repairs done correctly. As "local government" can you not set out your expectations and require that the mowing contractors do their job properly and not destructively? Could you set aside a little of that budget you have to contract out specialized trimming around the stones? You also wrote: You know what? Based on the posts I have read on this board, I have gotten the impression that most of you here live in counties that have governments that have NOTHING to do with maintaining and MOWING the cemeteries, let alone restoring them. Maybe some of the cemeteries are better off when government isn't involved. Doing the job improperly is not only, in the long-term, causing more harm but if the job has to be done again in the future, it costs even more. It sounds to me like you are trying to justify your methods because of the inablity to hire decent contractors to do the mowing. Diana Craig Busche --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

In a message dated 9/8/2005 10:03:54 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, jlfelix24@yahoo.com writes: I sit back and just watch this list a lot, but I decided to chime in this time--about Madison county. You know what? Based on the posts I have read on this board, I have gotten the impression that most of you here live in counties that have governments that have NOTHING to do with maintaining and MOWING the cemeteries, let alone restoring them. The impression I am getting from a fair number of folks here is that private individuals put in their money and time to "save" this or that cemetery and then they find some loving and caring individual to maintain it and mow it in perpetuity. That very few of your counties have any funded governmental system, volunteer or otherwise to identify and restore, much less maintain the old cemeteries. Thus in many counties, people like you whom I am responding to, fix up whole cemeteries, including research, clearing of vegetation, landscaping, fencing, etc, to as near original as humanly possible with donations from private concerns or individuals or out of your own pocket and then pay someone out of your own pockets or are lucky enough to have some very caring and careful volunteers, who mow and maintain the cemeteries you restore to a higher standard than we individuals here in Madison county are able to do. You don't have to worry about private contractors working for the local government, being paid by the job, and driving Zero-turn radius Xmart, or Skagg mowers that cut grass at 10 mph, and have a mower deck made from 1/4" thick steel, running into any, let alone some number of headstones and damaging them. That's great. But at the same time the same individuals are concerned that there are many cemeteries they can't fix or maintain. They see cemetereis that are decaying and they know they can't get to them. Here is our list of cemeteries _Cemetery List_ (http://www.cemeteries-madison-co-in.com/list.htm) . The vast majority of those listed that are not designated as "destroyed" have been restored and are maintained by the county using paid contractors. And the list is complete for the whole county based on the information we have now, though as happens at times, we are just now finding out about another one that may eventually be added to the list. But then again, the list in my old reference from the early days of the MCC has the Cottrell cemetery listed as "destroyed". Who are the great people that maintain the cemeteries you restore? People that do it out of love and not money for decades and take such great care with the work you have done? Rob Hains

Scott, I have ordered this kit from AGS if you looking at teaching. http://www.gravestonestudies.org/store/field_guides.htm Here is the site I have linked on my page. Set your bifocals up ;-) Small print. http://www.ctgravestones.com/Conservation/cleaning.htm I have not heard of using corn meal. I believe the photo flo cleaner you were using is recommended. I will work on the toolbox page soon. L.A. ----- Original Message ----- From: <scotstout@aol.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] stone rubbing > thanks sharon and others. that's very helpful and informative. > > regarding reading difficult tombstones, i have tried two solutions that work well for me. 1. i use photoshop to increase the contrast of the photographic image -- that usually works unless the stone has a lot of stains. 2. when at the cemetery, rather than use the big-no-no-shaving-cream, my cousins brought white corn meal & rubbed it gently over the stone. of course, it went into the depressions and made the stone very easy to read as well as photograph. and the rain washes it out and it decomposes, being 100% organic. (please tell me that was ok to do.) > > scot > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Howell <sshowell@indy.net> > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:36:48 -0500 > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] stone rubbing > > > Lightweight Pellon or similar non-woven interfacing from a fabric store is best to use. Sheets of plain newsprint have also been used, but they can tear easily. > > Use a wax made for cemetery rubbings or a fat crayon held with it's long side against the stone. Chalk can be used, but it will rub off. I'd take preservative spray or hair spray to spray the paper done with chalk, after removing it from the stone, but before rolling it up to put in the car. > > The best way to attach the paper to the stone is to have the paper big enough wrap all the way around the stone -- tape the paper to itself. A second way is to have one person hold and another person rub. Anytime anything is taped to the stone, it had the potential of damaging the stone when removed. Therefore, I would only use low-tack painter's tape (the blue stuff) and CAREFULLY take it off as soon as the rubbing is done. > > I used the rubbing I did as a background to a display case for Halloween. I have photos of all my ancestors' stones. Easier to store, and sometimes easier to read, especially if there are lichens on the stone. > > Sharon Howell > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. > Thank you. > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > >

Corrects were made for LaPorte Co. See below. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela" <atielking@insightbb.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:15 PM Subject: RE: [INPCRP] County cemetery commission contacts > > Cindy, > > I was going through my e-mails and found yours from Aug. 5 about county > cemetery commissions. I apologize for missing it. The list is down below. > This would be a good time as any for the rest of the INPCRP list to look > over the county cemetery commission contacts and see if any changes/updates > are needed. > Thank you. > Angela Tielking > atielking@insightbb.com > > County Cemetery Commissions for the State of Indiana > > > > 1) Clark County: Inactive and not funded. > Contact: Lois Mauk > loismauk@insightbb.com > > 2) Dearborn County: Not funded. > Contact: Chris McHenry > 14684 Wilson Creek Rd. > Lawrenceburg, IN. 47025 > (812) 926-2006 > cmchenry@seidata.com > > 3) Fayette County: Active and funded > Contact: John "Walt" Walters > 4521 South Co. Rd. 375 West > Connersville, IN. 47331 > (765) 825-7313 > graveyardgroomer@skyenet.net > > 4) Franklin County: Active, but not funded. > Contacts: Patricia Smith Edward Baker > P.O. Box 209 11112 James Rd. > Brookville, IN. 47012 Brookville, IN. 47012 > brookgen@juno.com > > 5) Hamilton County: Active > Contact: Joe Burgess > 384 North 11th St. > Noblesville, IN. 46060-2146 > > 6) Hancock County: Active and funded. > Contact: Judy Davis-Fuller > 123 Shade Tree Court > Greenfield, IN. 46140 > > > 7) Henry County: Active, but not funded > Contact: Donna Tauber > P. O. Box 106 > Spiceland, IN. 47385 > dtauber@kiva.net > > 8) Jay County: Active > Contact: Paul Pinkerton > 5341 W. 400 N. > Portland, IN. 47371 > > 9) Jefferson County: Active and funded > Contact: Jefferson County Cemetery Board > 300 E. Main St. > Room 103 > Madison, IN. 47250 > (812) 265-8944 > > 10) Knox County: Active and funded > Contact: Jon Andrews > P.O. Box 295 > Vincennes, IN. 47591 > sianoil@hotmail.com > > 11) La Porte County: Active and funded > Contacts: Kenneth Baker Patricia Harris > 504 GreenwoodAve. > Michigan City, IN. 46360-5426 > Ken1077@attbi.com wpharris@netnitco.net > > 12) Madison County: Active and funded > Contact: Melody Hull > 110 E. 700 N. > Alexandria, IN. 46001 > thull@iquest.net > > 13) Monroe County: Newly created > Contact: Larry V. Stephens > stephenL@indiana.edu > > > 14) Newton County: Created in 2001, but cemetery commission members > were never appointed by County Commissioners- inactive. > Contact: Kyle Conrad > KidClerk@aol.com > > 15) Ohio County: Active and funded > Contact: Don Curry > 5196 SR 56 W > Rising Sun, IN. > > 16) Parke County: Active and funded > Contact: Jim Wilcox > P.O. Box 291 > Rockville, IN. 47872 > (765) 569-2843 > pacer73z@joink.com > > 17) Randolph County: Created Dec. 2004 > No contact info yet. > > 18) Scott County: Active and funded > Contact: John Robbins, Jr. > 1903 S. Finely Firehouse Rd. > Scottsburg, IN. 47170 > > 19) Sullivan County: Active and funded > Contact: Harry Carpenter > Hymera, IN. > (812) 383-4921 > > 20) Switzerland County: Inactive > Contact: Bill Olds > 68 Tardy Ford Rd. > Vevay, IN. 47043 > (812) 427-3356 > > > > 21) Washington County: Active > Contact: Richard Dixon > rdixon@wcrtc.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cklyons [mailto:cklyons@comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 7:35 PM > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [INPCRP] Web pages > > I've been working on a booklet for our Township Trustees. I've been > checking URLs to make sure my references are all working. I can't access > the INPCRP site. I know there was a change when Brad resigned, but didn't > that get corrected? Do I have an old link or what? > > I am also looking for links for any workshops this fall; I'll include in > booklet if whoever is sponsoring has no objection. The book is going to all > Trustees & the 2-3 person Governing Board of townships in Delaware County. > > Does anyone know the approximate # of Counties that have Cemetery > Commissions? I thought that info was somewhere in the archived messages, > but I can't find it. > > > Cindy W > > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/05 > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer > Cemeteries Restoration Project only. > Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. > Thank you. >

Cindy, I was going through my e-mails and found yours from Aug. 5 about county cemetery commissions. I apologize for missing it. The list is down below. This would be a good time as any for the rest of the INPCRP list to look over the county cemetery commission contacts and see if any changes/updates are needed. Thank you. Angela Tielking atielking@insightbb.com County Cemetery Commissions for the State of Indiana 1) Clark County: Inactive and not funded. Contact: Lois Mauk loismauk@insightbb.com 2) Dearborn County: Not funded. Contact: Chris McHenry 14684 Wilson Creek Rd. Lawrenceburg, IN. 47025 (812) 926-2006 cmchenry@seidata.com 3) Fayette County: Active and funded Contact: John "Walt" Walters 4521 South Co. Rd. 375 West Connersville, IN. 47331 (765) 825-7313 graveyardgroomer@skyenet.net 4) Franklin County: Active, but not funded. Contacts: Patricia Smith Edward Baker P.O. Box 209 11112 James Rd. Brookville, IN. 47012 Brookville, IN. 47012 brookgen@juno.com 5) Hamilton County: Active Contact: Joe Burgess 384 North 11th St. Noblesville, IN. 46060-2146 6) Hancock County: Active and funded. Contact: Judy Davis-Fuller 123 Shade Tree Court Greenfield, IN. 46140 7) Henry County: Active, but not funded Contact: Donna Tauber P. O. Box 106 Spiceland, IN. 47385 dtauber@kiva.net 8) Jay County: Active Contact: Paul Pinkerton 5341 W. 400 N. Portland, IN. 47371 9) Jefferson County: Active and funded Contact: Jefferson County Cemetery Board 300 E. Main St. Room 103 Madison, IN. 47250 (812) 265-8944 10) Knox County: Active and funded Contact: Jon Andrews P.O. Box 295 Vincennes, IN. 47591 sianoil@hotmail.com 11) La Porte County: Active Contacts: Kenneth Baker Patricia Harris 504 Greenwood Ave. Michigan City, IN. 46360-5426 Ken1077@attbi.com wpharris@netnitco.net 12) Madison County: Active and funded Contact: Melody Hull 110 E. 700 N. Alexandria, IN. 46001 thull@iquest.net 13) Monroe County: Newly created Contact: Larry V. Stephens stephenL@indiana.edu 14) Newton County: Created in 2001, but cemetery commission members were never appointed by County Commissioners- inactive. Contact: Kyle Conrad KidClerk@aol.com 15) Ohio County: Active and funded Contact: Don Curry 5196 SR 56 W Rising Sun, IN. 16) Parke County: Active and funded Contact: Jim Wilcox P.O. Box 291 Rockville, IN. 47872 (765) 569-2843 pacer73z@joink.com 17) Randolph County: Created Dec. 2004 No contact info yet. 18) Scott County: Active and funded Contact: John Robbins, Jr. 1903 S. Finely Firehouse Rd. Scottsburg, IN. 47170 19) Sullivan County: Active and funded Contact: Harry Carpenter Hymera, IN. (812) 383-4921 20) Switzerland County: Inactive Contact: Bill Olds 68 Tardy Ford Rd. Vevay, IN. 47043 (812) 427-3356 21) Washington County: Active Contact: Richard Dixon rdixon@wcrtc.net -----Original Message----- From: cklyons [mailto:cklyons@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 7:35 PM To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [INPCRP] Web pages I've been working on a booklet for our Township Trustees. I've been checking URLs to make sure my references are all working. I can't access the INPCRP site. I know there was a change when Brad resigned, but didn't that get corrected? Do I have an old link or what? I am also looking for links for any workshops this fall; I'll include in booklet if whoever is sponsoring has no objection. The book is going to all Trustees & the 2-3 person Governing Board of townships in Delaware County. Does anyone know the approximate # of Counties that have Cemetery Commissions? I thought that info was somewhere in the archived messages, but I can't find it. Cindy W -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/05 ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

I sit back and just watch this list a lot, but I decided to chime in this time--about Madison county. My philosophy is that I will do as much as I can do...but do it the best way possible. If you don't know me, I'm a junior high art teacher. I have a two-year-old daughter and am currently getting my masters in education degree. I have very little free time. I do what I can do. I am the only person working on cemeteries in Hendricks County. I work for free. No budget, no trustee money, nothing. My own supplies, my own time, my own sweat. And I know most of us on this list are the same way. We do what we do because it is important, and put so much time and energy into it without being compensated. I feel sick when I see all of the cemeteries in my county that are in danger of disappearing. However, I feel worse when I see a bad repair job. And I know that the Madison County folks disagree about what is bad, but after going to 110 cemeteries in my county this summer, I firmly believe that sticking stones in wet concrete is bad. I know that I learned that in workshops. But truly, I'm basing that decision on what I've seen. We really have seen the stones breaking at the concrete level! No, it doesn't happen on every stone, but there is a definite, undeniable trend. I'm not saying that what was done in Madison county was all bad; in fact, from what I hear, most of it was good. Lots of caring and saving of cemeteries. In my mind, though, anything worth doing is worth doing right. If that means spending extra hours and more of my own money, that's what I do. If it means not getting to as many cemeteries in a year, that's how it has to be. If it means doing the mowing and trimming myself to ensure the safety of stones I have restored, that's what I'll do. On those cemeteries that are really in danger, couldn't an option be to go find all the stones, but leave the stones unset until there is time and money to do it correctly? I do this in the cemeteries I use for field trips. I go in and find everything and then place the stones face down in their places until the kids come to repair and reset them. Sometimes it's a couple months. I talk to the mowers and tell them what's going on. I've never had any problems with them being hit. Also, to me, pouring a new slotted base for a broken one is not that time-consuming, especially once you're on a roll! And 20 years down the road, if we find out that that's not the best method, I'd much rather go pull it out of the mortar than try to chip off the concrete without harming the stone. Reversablity seems like it should be the primary concern. I usually shake my head and almost laugh when I read all of the arguments on this list. It's obvious that everyone is so passionate about what they do that we get carried away easily. I do think that most members of this list have been balancing their praise of Madison County with the urge to look into other methods. I just hope they can see that we respect their efforts and only mean to educate, not attack. ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/

thanks sharon and others. that's very helpful and informative. regarding reading difficult tombstones, i have tried two solutions that work well for me. 1. i use photoshop to increase the contrast of the photographic image -- that usually works unless the stone has a lot of stains. 2. when at the cemetery, rather than use the big-no-no-shaving-cream, my cousins brought white corn meal & rubbed it gently over the stone. of course, it went into the depressions and made the stone very easy to read as well as photograph. and the rain washes it out and it decomposes, being 100% organic. (please tell me that was ok to do.) scot -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Howell <sshowell@indy.net> To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:36:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [INPCRP] stone rubbing Lightweight Pellon or similar non-woven interfacing from a fabric store is best to use. Sheets of plain newsprint have also been used, but they can tear easily. Use a wax made for cemetery rubbings or a fat crayon held with it's long side against the stone. Chalk can be used, but it will rub off. I'd take preservative spray or hair spray to spray the paper done with chalk, after removing it from the stone, but before rolling it up to put in the car. The best way to attach the paper to the stone is to have the paper big enough wrap all the way around the stone -- tape the paper to itself. A second way is to have one person hold and another person rub. Anytime anything is taped to the stone, it had the potential of damaging the stone when removed. Therefore, I would only use low-tack painter's tape (the blue stuff) and CAREFULLY take it off as soon as the rubbing is done. I used the rubbing I did as a background to a display case for Halloween. I have photos of all my ancestors' stones. Easier to store, and sometimes easier to read, especially if there are lichens on the stone. Sharon Howell ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project only. Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at http://lists.rootsweb.com are a better venue. Thank you.

In a message dated 9/8/2005 5:16:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, scotstout@aol.com writes: can someone tell me what a gravestone rubbing is? what's the purpose of making a rubbing? how does one properly do it? i've only heard about this, but never seen it done. when i was in england in 2001 i saw numerous signs in every cathedral prohibiting rubbings without permission, but i never saw anyone doing it. scot Hi Scot, Here is a site to help with your questions. Tomb With A View Scroll down to "How to do Gravestone Rubbings." If you any further questions, please feel free to email me. I have been teaching safe methods to read gravestones for years. It is very true that many cemeteries do not permit rubbings because too many people using improper materials or procedures have actually done permanent damage to some beautiful, fragile markers. Good luck. Katie

Scot, Sharon Howell's posted method is the one we use. You can use sidewalk chalk and newsprint paper. Just make sure the stones are on a solid foundation and not ready to fall on someone. The only thing that touches the stone should be the paper. Just be careful and leave the cemetery cleaner than you found it. UEB Henry Co., IN INPCRP ----- Original Message ----- From: <scotstout@aol.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [INPCRP] stone rubbing > thanks. now i have more questions... what type of paper are they using? > how is it affixed to the stones? what type of markers are they using? > > what materials have people used that would be hazardous to the stone, and > thus cause cemetery personnel to be unhappy? > > i assume people do this to frame and hang later as a work of art, correct? > > -----Original Message----- > From: uebush@sbcglobal.net > To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:02:50 -0500 > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] stone rubbing > > > Scot, > > Go to this link and see it in action. http://hcgs.net/hccc/ymca2005.html > > UEB > Henry Co., IN > INPCRP > ----- Original Message ----- From: <scotstout@aol.com> > To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:14 PM > Subject: [INPCRP] stone rubbing > >> can someone tell me what a gravestone rubbing is? what's the purpose of > >> making a rubbing? how does one properly do it? >> >> i've only heard about this, but never seen it done. when i was in england >> > in 2001 i saw numerous signs in every cathedral prohibiting rubbings > >> without permission, but i never saw anyone doing it. >> >> scot >> >> >> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >> "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you > >> have." >> Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) >> >> > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of > England and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli: > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty > to high ideals." > >

thanks. now i have more questions... what type of paper are they using? how is it affixed to the stones? what type of markers are they using? what materials have people used that would be hazardous to the stone, and thus cause cemetery personnel to be unhappy? i assume people do this to frame and hang later as a work of art, correct? -----Original Message----- From: uebush@sbcglobal.net To: INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:02:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [INPCRP] stone rubbing Scot, Go to this link and see it in action. http://hcgs.net/hccc/ymca2005.html UEB Henry Co., IN INPCRP ----- Original Message ----- From: <scotstout@aol.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:14 PM Subject: [INPCRP] stone rubbing > can someone tell me what a gravestone rubbing is? what's the purpose of > making a rubbing? how does one properly do it? > > i've only heard about this, but never seen it done. when i was in england > in 2001 i saw numerous signs in every cathedral prohibiting rubbings > without permission, but i never saw anyone doing it. > > scot > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you > have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.

Lightweight Pellon or similar non-woven interfacing from a fabric store is best to use. Sheets of plain newsprint have also been used, but they can tear easily. Use a wax made for cemetery rubbings or a fat crayon held with it's long side against the stone. Chalk can be used, but it will rub off. I'd take preservative spray or hair spray to spray the paper done with chalk, after removing it from the stone, but before rolling it up to put in the car. The best way to attach the paper to the stone is to have the paper big enough wrap all the way around the stone -- tape the paper to itself. A second way is to have one person hold and another person rub. Anytime anything is taped to the stone, it had the potential of damaging the stone when removed. Therefore, I would only use low-tack painter's tape (the blue stuff) and CAREFULLY take it off as soon as the rubbing is done. I used the rubbing I did as a background to a display case for Halloween. I have photos of all my ancestors' stones. Easier to store, and sometimes easier to read, especially if there are lichens on the stone. Sharon Howell

Nice site, Henry County Cemetery Commission. The page linked below was especially attractive. Melody Hull MCCC At 05:02 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Scot, > >Go to this link and see it in action. http://hcgs.net/hccc/ymca2005.html > >UEB >Henry Co., IN >INPCRP >----- Original Message ----- From: <scotstout@aol.com> >To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:14 PM >Subject: [INPCRP] stone rubbing > > >>can someone tell me what a gravestone rubbing is? what's the purpose of >>making a rubbing? how does one properly do it? >> >>i've only heard about this, but never seen it done. when i was in >>england in 2001 i saw numerous signs in every cathedral prohibiting >>rubbings without permission, but i never saw anyone doing it. >> >>scot >> >> >>==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >>"Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have." >> Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) >> > > > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== >Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know. > >

can someone tell me what a gravestone rubbing is? what's the purpose of making a rubbing? how does one properly do it? i've only heard about this, but never seen it done. when i was in england in 2001 i saw numerous signs in every cathedral prohibiting rubbings without permission, but i never saw anyone doing it. scot

Scot, Go to this link and see it in action. http://hcgs.net/hccc/ymca2005.html UEB Henry Co., IN INPCRP ----- Original Message ----- From: <scotstout@aol.com> To: <INPCRP-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:14 PM Subject: [INPCRP] stone rubbing > can someone tell me what a gravestone rubbing is? what's the purpose of > making a rubbing? how does one properly do it? > > i've only heard about this, but never seen it done. when i was in england > in 2001 i saw numerous signs in every cathedral prohibiting rubbings > without permission, but i never saw anyone doing it. > > scot > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ==== > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you > have." > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) > >