I think one of the reasons you don't see much mentioned about Dec 7th is all the Nissan's and Toyota's, etc. running around on our streets. Time seems to dull the general populace into complacency. I totally agree with you about keeping the memories of those days before the public. History tends to repeat itself if we just leave it alone. I've recently even seen articles of Ted Turner running for President! Not that in itself isn't so bad; I just don't want Hanoi Jane as first lady. I remember very well what we all felt when her picture was broadcast all over the place. We couldn't believe we could have men dying around us and there she was smiling and making it seem like it was all a waste of time. Harold -----Original Message----- From: Donald & Sally Nichols <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 1:26 PM Subject: [INKOSCIU-L] Pearl Harbor Day >To Linda Allred Cooper - I remember Howard Hoppus and remember him being in >the Marines. On the afternoon, Sunday, December 7, 1941 I and my parents >were spending a lazy afternoon around our house. My sister was in nursing >training in So. Bend, In. at that time and I believe Howard had been in her >class at school. We had the radio on and the news came over in the early >afternoon hours, I do not remember the correct time. As I recall it was a >sunny day in Warsaw. As everyone had been listening to their radio's and >reading the newspapers it was not too much of a suprise. I was a junior in >high school at that time so I was not too concerned as our family consisted >of myself, my sister and parents, no boys in our household. Later, my >sister joined the Army Nurse's Corps and I joined the WAVES as we felt it >our duty to do so. > >I was very disappointed yesterday that only a few mention's of December 7, >1941 were made on the radio and TV and in our local newspaper. We should >NEVER forget what happened in WW 11 and should educate anyone and everyone >of the events that took place during the next 5 years, ending on Sept. 2, >1945. > >Thanks Linda for your comments of yesterday. > >Sally M. Nichols >204 Ra Mar Ave. >Warsaw, IN 46580 >email [email protected] > > >==== INKOSCIU Mailing List ==== >To UNSUBSCRIBE, address your email to [email protected] (or [email protected] if you receive the digest) > > > > > > >

Cheryl, I know that there was a munitions warehouse in South Bend during W.W.II. Sharon Mishawaka, IN

To Linda Allred Cooper - I remember Howard Hoppus and remember him being in the Marines. On the afternoon, Sunday, December 7, 1941 I and my parents were spending a lazy afternoon around our house. My sister was in nursing training in So. Bend, In. at that time and I believe Howard had been in her class at school. We had the radio on and the news came over in the early afternoon hours, I do not remember the correct time. As I recall it was a sunny day in Warsaw. As everyone had been listening to their radio's and reading the newspapers it was not too much of a suprise. I was a junior in high school at that time so I was not too concerned as our family consisted of myself, my sister and parents, no boys in our household. Later, my sister joined the Army Nurse's Corps and I joined the WAVES as we felt it our duty to do so. I was very disappointed yesterday that only a few mention's of December 7, 1941 were made on the radio and TV and in our local newspaper. We should NEVER forget what happened in WW 11 and should educate anyone and everyone of the events that took place during the next 5 years, ending on Sept. 2, 1945. Thanks Linda for your comments of yesterday. Sally M. Nichols 204 Ra Mar Ave. Warsaw, IN 46580 email [email protected]

Hi everyone, Does anyone know if there were any military facilities in South Bend, IN in WWII? Thanks!! Cheryl

Thanks. He must be a very popular person. EVERYONE had it but me. I had a hard drive crash in June and lost just a few items. I only had his old adddress. Thanks for the thoughts. June

My Uncle Charles Howard Hoppus, who was born, raised and buried in Warsaw, Kosciusko County, IN, was in Pearl Harbor this day 57 years ago. He was in the Marines, a young man in his early 20's, enjoying his assignment in a tropical paradise. He later said he had just sat down for breakfast and was taking his first bite when the bombs started exploding around him. Let's take a moment to remember him and all the rest who suffered through that awful day................................ Linda Allred Cooper

Feel lucky folks!!! In Nebraska it is $9.00 for some of the records at the bureau of Vital Statistics and $10 for others! Brenda Daniel Marjorie Priser wrote: > Thanks Karen for the web site regarding vital records - > where to obtain and how much the cost is... which brings me to a > point... > I see that on the state page...Indiana death records are now > $6.00 compared to $4.00 last time I checked... > I suppose that to some people getting a death record for > $6.00 might seem cheap... it would depend on what you were > comparing it to... but I wonder how far up the ladder "copy > cost" is going to climb. Our tax money pays for the government > offices and machines and salaries for people to run the offices > and machines. WHY is there an additional charge... for copies... > and where is it going to end... $20.00 each record?.... $20.00 > each copy?? Is there anyone else out there who thinks this is > getting out of hand? Is this a topic to be discussed, and if > so, who do we need to contact to see how many we had better get > at $6.00 each... before the price goes up to $10.00 each? Do > we, as mere taxpayers have a any "say" in the matter. > Question respectfully submitted, marge priser > > ==== INKOSCIU Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, address your email to [email protected] (or [email protected] if you receive the digest)

June and Karen Here are two address for Phil, the last one used in July. I have nothing newer from him.... Vic Philip Ritter <[email protected]> philip ritter <[email protected]>

Hi, June I need to find his address too and just haven't taken the time. He should be one of the volunteers listed on the K. Co. web page. Karen ---------- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [INKOSCIU-L] Philip Ritter > Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 10:25 AM > > I have lost Philip's Email address and need to correspond with him on Cole > Hammon descendents. > > June Byrne > [email protected] > > > ==== INKOSCIU Mailing List ==== > Kosciusko Co, IN USGenWeb site http://user.ctlnet.com/gan155/kosco.htm > > > >

UNSUBSCRIBE!!!!!!!!!

Dear Kosciusko County Digest, One very compelling reason for states'/counties' increased charges for vital records copies is the "explosion" in the numbers of researchers who are requesting these copies. Justifiably or not, records offices are taking advantage of this situation as most businesses would: by charging what the traffic will bear. As long as this demand exists, state/county record offices, and most other record/copy sources such as archives and libraries, will set their prices accordingly. Are the high document/copy charges legitimate in the face of increased demand? Many clerks in various records offices will say "yes"; they have to stop their "regular duties" and take varying amounts of time to locate, copy and send a record (and a bill), and their offices and work routine are interrupted when researchers arrive in person at the "office" and want access to material (an option available less and less often), often located in boxes in back rooms or basements. Many clerks also do not feel that assisting family history researchers is part of their job description in any way, and that researchers should be willing to pay $10.00 - $15.00 for the "extras" of records searching and/or copying. My on-site research in many states and counties has shown that while some of these concerns are often legitimate, depending on the amount of "search traffic" the office gets, fee structures are often designed more to discourage requests for records than to reflect actual costs involved in searching, copying or sending a document. On several on-site research trips, I have heard clerks admit just this point, often apologizing for what they (and I )considered an inflated document fee. The temptation to try to legislate fee controls at the federal, state and county levels is strong, but I feel that genealogists take the risk of "shooting themselves in the foot" unless a fee-control campaign is thoroughly planned, tightly organized, and fast-moving. Records resources are so vast and varied and genealogists (even when banded into "societies") so many, scattered, and personal-agenda driven as to make any coordinated attempt to control fees horrendously difficult, to say the least. Additionally, records offices of all types could quite easily respond to a perceived threat to cut their revenues by making fewer and fewer records available to the reseacher; restricted or non-existent records availability is increasingly common, and "stonewalling" has been elevated to an art form in all levels of "government" offices. Unfortunately, genealogists need access to records, and the "record keepers" are well aware of this; why else have a gold-sealed, multi-colored, "official" vital record copy (at a premium price) as the only option? Or, like some county court houses I have visited, have one charge to see if the record is available at all, and then an additional one to copy it? Or, having no access to copying machines in at least two state archives I visited; one could sign up, leave material, and wait for an one -two hours while clerks did the copying for 50 cents a page! My personal response to increasing charges has been to draw a line between "curiosity" and "necessity" when requesting vital records or copying documents, and using published compilations as much as possible to discover and/or verify material. Some very expensive requests, including two to the very pricey and extremely inefficient (death certificates for two people who did not remotely resemble the information in my request) "black hole" of Washington state's public records office, have reinforced the wisdom of this course. Being "choosy" often makes my information-gathering more difficult, but at least I'm still solvent. Realistically, the only motivator (barring a massive rebellion of furious family historians) to drive down prices is competition, and as long as the government resources are "the only game in town" for certain kinds of records, there isn't any. Joan C. Taylor (researching JONES in K county) I

I have lost Philip's Email address and need to correspond with him on Cole Hammon descendents. June Byrne [email protected]

Hi everyone! Here is a current listing of the Kosciusko County Biographies that are listed on the biographies site. There are many more names than just those listed here. These are the main subjects of the biographies: ALEXANDER, Frank ALLISON, Randolph B. BEGHTEL, Jesse BEYER, John Frederick BIDDLE, Hiram F. CHIPMAN, Silas W. CLEMANS, Commodore CLINE, J. D. Lee CRITES, Claude CRITES, Gertrude Elizabeth CRITES, John Franklin DANIELS, Samuel DEATON, John E. EGGLESTON, Dr. W.H. FASHBAUGH, Jacob FITTON, John W. FRENCH, Ezekiel D. HAMMAN, David HAMMAN, Peter Rev. HARLAN, Elijah HARTLINE, Frederick & SMITH, Peter HEAGY, T. J. HIRE, Isaac B. KIRKENDALL, Isaac MERIDETH, Harvey MILLER, Hiram D. MOCK, Rose PAULUS, Monroe PLACE, Francis A. POWELL, Isaac M. POWELL, John SMALE, Abraham SUMMY, Frederick Sr. TINKEY, Jonathan ULSH, Irvin H. Cheryl Hawley ============================================== http://www.webbergroup.com http://www.echoesarchive.com http://www.chrislist.com Senior GIS Technician Microsoft NT LAN Administrator Webmaster, Snohomish Pilchuck Cemetery Project Webmaster, Mantrackers & Search Dogs, Inc. St. Coordinator, CT/IN/NY/OH/VA Tombstone Projects St. Coordinator, Ohio & Virginia Biographies Projects Co. Coordinator, Champaign/Erie/Huron/Logan Co., Ohio Biog.Projects Co. Coordinator, Patrick County, Virginia Biographies Project Co. Coordinator, Kosciusko County, Indiana Biographies Project Co. Coordinator, Kitsap County, Washington GenWeb Page Contributing Writer/Webmaster, Country Gazette Newspaper, Orting, WA Newsletter Editor, Washington State Genealogical Society President, Echoes of the Past Archive Founder & Co-Owner, New Life Enterprises Chief Operational Officer (COO) The Webber Group "Glad to spend the rest of my life Climbing Trees!!!"

Hi Iva, I remember hearing that there was going to be some sort of investigation or study done, but I never heard a report or an outcome. Glad to see that you are "with us" on this list... please keep me posted if you see any further reports. marge -----Original Message----- From: Dick & Iva Nelson <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [INKOSCIU-L] Vital Records cost |Marge, Hi: Iva Nelson here. | I don't know if you remember the publicity way back last spring when a |random audit was done through the state on availability of "open" records |to the public, and what it brought out in the report back to the State was |that there was much 'backing off' by different offices in different ways, |even. This was in the news, then died down, and later I see it rear its |ugly head with the comment that the legislature would |probably faced with a decision about offices holding public records, making |them |available upon request, according to our State laws. I've seen a report |that in some circles the mention of this is brings a yawn, then others may |be interested in seeing the law followed. I have read about all the |problems in Ohio, with OGS representa- |tives even going to the legislature to 'fight for the rights' of the |people. I think this is something we need to keep our eyes open, and keep |apprised on, as it, if it goes to the legislature may even be something |that the historical and genealogical societies on the state level may need |to'go to bat' for us. in the same news releases I think it was mentioned |that some offices had been found to be charging $5.00 when according to the |state law, the copies should only have been $1.00. | If the "reader" here runs into anything more, I'll try to keep you |apprised. |Iva Nelson | |

Marge, Hi: Iva Nelson here. I don't know if you remember the publicity way back last spring when a random audit was done through the state on availability of "open" records to the public, and what it brought out in the report back to the State was that there was much 'backing off' by different offices in different ways, even. This was in the news, then died down, and later I see it rear its ugly head with the comment that the legislature would probably faced with a decision about offices holding public records, making them available upon request, according to our State laws. I've seen a report that in some circles the mention of this is brings a yawn, then others may be interested in seeing the law followed. I have read about all the problems in Ohio, with OGS representa- tives even going to the legislature to 'fight for the rights' of the people. I think this is something we need to keep our eyes open, and keep apprised on, as it, if it goes to the legislature may even be something that the historical and genealogical societies on the state level may need to'go to bat' for us. in the same news releases I think it was mentioned that some offices had been found to be charging $5.00 when according to the state law, the copies should only have been $1.00. If the "reader" here runs into anything more, I'll try to keep you apprised. Iva Nelson ---------- > From: Marjorie Priser <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [INKOSCIU-L] Vital Records cost > Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 10:45 PM > > Hi Cheryl, > What I want to know is whether or not we stand idly by and watch > it go up with no recourse... or can we protest and keep it from > escalating as fast?? > marge > Would an avalanche of letters to our congressmen help or at least > start some sort of dialogue?? > > > ==== INKOSCIU Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE, address your email to [email protected] (or [email protected] if you receive the digest) > > > > >

Thanks for your comments Sherry. I wouldn't mind your getting the record for a nominal fee.(same as I would pay) .. that covered the cost of paper & postage.. provided that when I wrote to YOUR state or another state in the US, I got the same courtesy. Like you, I look at the difference in cost between states or agencies as interesting. Guess we can all hope for Ohio relatives! From what Cheryl says, we had better hope we don't have anyone who moved to the state of Washington! And thanks Cheryl for sort of explaining why the cost is going up... even tho I don't understand what "fraudulent use of vital records for personal gain" means... (I'm one of those "honest" (or naive people) Do you mean - like taking on another identity?? marge

SORRY... there may be three copies of a message regarding the two new links on the web page. I sent that message this morning... twice and then this evening again, because it had not appeared yet.. now I think it is going to come through all three times... s-o-r-r-y!! please just delete the duplicate & triplicate. marge p.

Hi Cheryl, What I want to know is whether or not we stand idly by and watch it go up with no recourse... or can we protest and keep it from escalating as fast?? marge Would an avalanche of letters to our congressmen help or at least start some sort of dialogue??

Was on the Kosciusko County web page last night and found two new additions -Gene has added a link to June Byrne's web page on the CLOVER families that features CLOVER entries from the 1790-1820 censuses. June will be adding more to the page on a regular basis, I'll bet. And a link has been added to a database of newspaper information. CompuGen Systems in Fort Wayne IN has compiled over 3.5 million entries of vital statistics (births, deaths, marriages, etc., etc.) from newspapers all over the state of Indiana. There is a Fee for this service, however, to give you a clue as to the amount of entries for a particular surname, you can check on the web page to see a count of entries by surname. Entries for Kosciusko County are especially heavy, in that at least three people in this county have, over a period of time contributed to the database. The report is an index. You can e-mail CompuGen (Stuart Harter) from the page with any further questions. marge priser |

Thanks Karen for the web site regarding vital records - where to obtain and how much the cost is... which brings me to a point... I see that on the state page...Indiana death records are now $6.00 compared to $4.00 last time I checked... I suppose that to some people getting a death record for $6.00 might seem cheap... it would depend on what you were comparing it to... but I wonder how far up the ladder "copy cost" is going to climb. Our tax money pays for the government offices and machines and salaries for people to run the offices and machines. WHY is there an additional charge... for copies... and where is it going to end... $20.00 each record?.... $20.00 each copy?? Is there anyone else out there who thinks this is getting out of hand? Is this a topic to be discussed, and if so, who do we need to contact to see how many we had better get at $6.00 each... before the price goes up to $10.00 each? Do we, as mere taxpayers have a any "say" in the matter. Question respectfully submitted, marge priser