From: Nancy Trice <trice@vci.net> To: STATE-COORD-L@rootsweb.com <STATE-COORD-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 11:34 PM Subject: [STATE-COORD-L] Stoopid GC Questions and venting >At 03:05 PM 2/20/1999 -0500, Ellen Pack wrote: >>> it was said by a GC staffer that the queries, obits etc.. >>>belong to the submitter and NOT to USGW, XXGW or anyone else. > > That is absolutely correct. The data posted to a GenConnect board belongs >to the person that posted it. It does not belong to the county CC and it >does not belong to GenConnect, and it says so on the bottom of every board! >"Contents of any and all messages posted on this Forum remain the sole >property of the poster." > > >>That's been the MS and I'm sure USGW policy since day one. The info >>belongs to the submitters who uploaded (or think they uploaded) to a >>particular county. That being the case, there probably would be no problem >>with copying the submissions and uploading to the specific USGW county in >>the event a board went on the auction block. Still, I would like >>confirmation from either NT or Pam..... > > Ellen is right on this too... it has always been assumed that the queries >posted to a county should stay with the county if a CC left. Of course, if >they leave in a huff and remove their pages, the query and data is lost >isn't it? What is USGW gonna do about it? NOTHING! Nothing USGW can do >about it. Find a new CC and let them start over. That's happened to >everyone of us in the past 3 years I'm sure. > > The admin page on the boards include a batch print function where you can >copy/print any of the messages that you want. This makes it easy for you >to do a backup of all queries/data and put in the archives or on your own >page, or print them out and share with your genealogical society or >whatever. In addition, the CCH-format admin notices include the entire >message preformatted to be easily inserted into CCHelper for those who are >using it. GenConnect has tried to make your job easy and these >functions/options were added at the request of some of the CCs early last >year. By all means take advantage of them... that's what they are there >for. > > Just don't delete the queries or data from the boards. That isn't fair to >your/our visitors. They posted a query or data on a GC board. They expect >to be able to return later to see their query or data. They expect to one >day receive an answer to the query on the board if they are lucky. Visitors >exchange data on the boards and expect to be able to return to it later if >they want to share new finds with others. If someone decides they don't >want to use GC anymore, for whatever reason, by all means put the >information on your county pages... but the data posted to GenConnect will >also stay on the GC board where it was posted by the visitor for their >benefit unless they personally ask for it to be removed. To do otherwise >is not fair to the visitor that shared it in the first place. And believe >it or not it's safer on a GC board than on a disgruntled CCs page if they >up and leave in a huff! Ask Susan... ask me... we've both had a CC leave >this past week and take everything down... including wiping their GC >boards. And yes, if you are interested, we restored them. > > There is another very good reason as well. Let me explain something else >that I don't think that many of the CCs and SCs have grasped yet. Remember >that blurb that most of us have put on our pages explaining when and why >this whole thing started. > > In March and April, 1996, a group of genealogists organized > the Kentucky Comprehensive Genealogy Database Project. The > idea was to provide a single entry point for all counties > in Kentucky, where collected databases would be stored. In > addition, the databases would be indexed and cross-linked, so > that even if an individual were found in more than one county, > they could be located in the index. > > Read that last sentence again. > > GenConnect has provided the means for all the data to be cross-linked and >indexed... not just within a state but internationally, and without having >to visit a hundred different sites and use a hundred different search >engines. What would any one of you give to sit down at your computer >tonight and using the GC global search engine request a search for your >illusive ancestor and find the following: > > 1. His bio on a Ky bio board, where he lived for awhile, linked to > 2. His obit on a Tn obit board, where his married dau lived, linked to > 3. His death certificate entered on a Tx board where he died while >visiting his son, linked to > 4. His will and burial information posted to a Va will board because >that's where he lived, linked to > 5. His birth record posted to one of the England boards, linked to > 6. The family bible proving his ancestry, linked to > 7. A surname board giving all those links, including a link to > 8. His marriage recorded in the North Carolina USGW archives and maybe >even a file giving you his mothers ancestry for 3 or 4 generations and who >knows what else? > > Wasn't this cross-linking and making the data easily available what first >KyGenWeb then USGenWeb was all about? Isn't that why every one of us >joined this project in the first place? > > GenConnect has made all of this possible if you and your visitors will >take advantage of it. Your visitors probably don't take the time to read >the hints and tips explaining how this is all possible, and I'm sure that >at least 95% of the CCs haven't bothered to read it either. In fact, I'll >bet that most of them think of GC as just a simple way of handling their >queries so they don't have to be bothered with them. But if the CCs using >GC would begin cross-linking their data on their boards to other boards and >the archives, and setting an example, it wouldn't take the visitors long to >get the idea and begin doing it too. > > A few visitors and CCs are already doing it. This is one of the reasons >that GenConnect will not allow a board to be wiped out. You remove just >one bio [obit/will etc] or query that has been linked and you have >potentially broken hundreds of links within the GenConnect system... links >made by the visitors... links that could be making the connection that you >yourself have been looking for for the past 25 years. > > Ellen... I hope that helps to answer your question? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BREAK <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > The rest of this email is ME venting... as a SC, CC, GC sysadmin and an >individual in this project and is strictly my own opinion... read at your >own risk or delete now... because I am definately going to say some things >that just might p*ss some of you off and I really don't care. > ><start venting> > > Folks, maybe I'm stupid... or naive... or whatever any of you want to call >me. At this point I really don't care. Almost 3 years ago a group of us >saw the vision and had the dream and we did something about it... we >started the KyGenWeb. Others saw the vision and joined us and still others >saw what we saw and helped start USGenWeb. But guess what... 2 years later >the dream still wasn't fulfilled... sure, the data was going up and folks >were posting queries and making connections, but it is still not >cross-linked... it is mainly just linked within a county, or buried in the >archives with no link to it from the county, and it still has to be >searched for, one file at a time. Even today, some of the counties are >almost bare of data. A person decides they want to handle the county page, >they put up a simple page and then forget it... and their attitude is "but >that's MY county and I'll do what I want to with it", and as SCs we don't >know what to do with them. > > Somewhere along the way, the dream and the vision died. USGW has some >very narrow-minded and selfish people with narrow-minded and selfish >attitudes. I'm not talking of or to any specific person here so don't >bother to flame me for it... I'll just delete it... BUT... if the shoe >fits, wear it! > > That's MY county... I don't want to take the time to add anything to the >pages, but... it's MINE... you can't have it... and no one else can have ir >or the GenConnect boards either... it's MINE MINE MINE!!! > That's MY county... that's MY data because the visitors gave it to ME... >those are MY queries... it's MINE MINE MINE!!! > > This one hates RootsWeb and Brian and Karen... save your data and USGW... >get it off RW before someone sells it... > That one hates usroots/rootsquest and the Dills... save your data and >USGW... get it off there before someone sells it... > Someone else hates GenConnect... save your data and USGW... get it off >there before they take it away from you or someone sells it... > ... it's MINE MINE MINE AND YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!!! > This is the attitude of children... 4 year olds who haven't learned any >better yet! > > Pam and I saw what our little query system was capable of doing... >fulfilling KyGenWeb's dream of cross-linking the data. We have shared it >with the rest of USGW as well as other projects. We never forced anyone to >use GenConnect... we offered it to the CCs to use if they wish. We are >constantly working to improve the system for the CCs. We work our butts >off hour after hour every day supporting the CCs and trying to give them >what they want to make their counties better and their jobs easier and it >doesn't cost them a single red penny. > > OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!! They won't let me wipe out a board... I don't >want it but I don't want anyone else to have it either... > ... it's MINE MINE MINE!!! > > Well IMHO the data and queries are not yours and they are not mine. They >belong to the genealogical community, and we... all of us... regardless of >who we are or where we live or what color we are or what religion we are >[or aren't], or what political party we belong to or which project we >belong to, are only the keepers of the gate. Our goal as members of USGW >is to make the data available, free of charge, or did that change somewhere >along the way during the past 3 years? > > The original dream and vision was to link everything together. For the >last 3 years we've seen most people in the project quietly putting up >data... the marriage lists, the tax lists, entire census transcriptions or >just extracts, birth and death records and more. Now, GenConnect has >provided the means to begin linking that data together. > > If you don't want to use GenConnect that's fine... but don't bitch when >someone else does. Maybe they still have the dream and vision that you >lost somewhere along the way in the last 2-3 years, or maybe they are a >loyal visitor to your county page that sees the vision and wants to help. >Quit trying to tarnish or destroy what might be the best thing to happen >for the USGW project and the genealogical community just because you happen >to not like it or me or RootsWeb. Besides... who appointed you guardian >and saviour of USGW? > > Am I disgusted? You bet I am. > > I'm disgusted by all the petty politics that rules this project. > I'm disgusted and sad when a few try to tear down [all in the name of what >*they* think is best for USGW] what so many have tried to build and the >majority sits still and lets them do it because if they open their mouth >and say anything they know what to expect from seeing what happened to >someone else. > I'm disappointed that so many either don't have, never had, or have lost, >the vision of what this project was meant to be and could still be if >everyone would stop their damn petty jealousies and bickering and try to >work together instead of constantly trying to belittle and destroy. > > If you're unhappy with USGW then go start your own project, but quit >trying to destroy this one! If you don't like RootsWeb or RootsQuest or >any other server, don't use it... but quit badmouthing those servers and >the people who so graciously give of their own time and money to make it >available for all of us. > > If you are one of those selfish people that thinks the data is yours, >transcribe all the stuff yourself, slap your copyright on it and put it on >your own site and start your own project! I'm sure that USGW will be glad >to link to it anyway... unless of course it pertains to a county 'owned' by >someone that has the MINE MINE MINE attitude like you have, and then you >both loose. Even worse, the visitors to both of your sites loose. > > If you don't want to use GenConnect then don't, but quit trying to make us >out as the bad guys. Our goals and contribution to the USGW project are >just as important as yours. Of course, I'm sure there are some who will >question that, but that doesn't bother me... those are the people I've been >talking about and I'll just consider the source and go on. > ></venting> > > If you want to fwd this to your state list feel free... but ONLY if you >include the entire message. > >nt > > > > > > >