I am sorry but maybe have not made myself clear. Austin Rider was born in 1785 and died in 1835 shortly after arriving in IT. He never made it onto any roles because he died before the the 1851 Drennen Role. I think that he was white. His wife was Mary Jane Starr [she had Cherokee blood] and their Daughter Nancy Rider married David Thompson. Thompson was white. He went west in 1834 but his wife and three of his six children died shortly after they arrived in IT. In about 1837 he and the 3 remaining children returned east and moved to Ga where he died and I am told married the second time. I am interested in finding out if Austin is white because it changes the blood degree of his children and grandchildren and ect. He was born in VA so David Keith Hamptons book says. I have The Starr book History of the Cherokee Indians and Hamptoms boon on the Des of Nancy Ward. I thought that maybe someone might know about a book on these two families before the move west. There is Riders on the 1787 tax roll of VA but they but there is very little infro there. The Nail search did not give me much because it is all on men who were on the later rolls. These two men married Indian ladies and think that they were the first whites these lines to marry indians. David Thompson was originaly fron North Carolina. His son Caleb Starr Thompson did not go to IT till 1881. Thanks to all who tried to help me. It is the real early history of these men that I am interested in. I have a lot of later information on the families. Thanks. Glee

Willora Glee Krapf wrote: <snip>"-- I am interested in finding out if Austin (Rider) is white because it changes the blood degree of his children and grandchildren and etc. " George Morrison Bell spent many years in Cherokee research and took the history of some of these families a step further than Starr did in "History of the Cherokee Indians". Bell authored "Genealogy of Old and New Cherokee Indian Families", but it is now a rare book and hard to find. On page 340 he lists Austin Rider as being "of English and Scotch Irish descent", so I will agree with Mr. Hampton's assessment that he was "white". Since Mary Pauline Starr was only a quarter-blood, that would make their children 1/8th Cherokee. Bell lists eleven children for them- including four; Ezekiel, Bluford West, William and Ellis, who died before adulthood. The only information that he had listed for Nannie was that she had married David Thompson. Regards jc