----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Cloke" <gjcloke@msn.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com>what part of Oklahoma Indian territory do you live. I am a native born MuskoMiami,ok (Oklahoma Territory" cora miller gee Oklahoman but am now living in Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Black Dutch > Hi, I am new to the list. I find this discussion fascinating. I live in > Oklahoma in the part that was Indian Territory and have been interested in > the history of the Native American tribes that were moved to this area for > a long time. I have done some research, but still don't feel I have even a > rudimentary understanding. Some of you seem to have more knowledge about > this. > > As mentioned, some families said they were Black Dutch in order to hide > their Indian heritage. My family was one of them. My paternal grandmother > told us we were Black Dutch. She even had a wooden shoe that someone had > bought as a souvenir somewhere, so I was totally sure we had Dutch > ancestors until the late 1980's. I had already started doing some research > and couldn't find anything about what part of Holland the Black Dutch were > from. I had the opportunity to met a Dutch missionary who visited our > church and asked him. He had no idea what I was talking about and told me > there was no such thing as Black Dutch. After more research I found out > that it was a cover for being Indian. We had also been told we had some > Indian, probably Cherokee. It seems that as it became less taboo to be > Indian, the family finally began admitting it, but later generations knew > so little that the tribal affiliation had been lost during the years they > were trying to keep it a secret. So now I'm tr! > ying to figure out what tribe or tribes and have had no luck on the rolls. > > This discussion on where tribes were during what period is helpful. My > ancestors that supposedly married into Indian tribes were from Germany > originally. The Dibler's came through Pennsylvania (1700's- Abt. 1855), > Ohio (Abt. 1859-1866), Indiana (1867-1870's), Arkansas (1880-1896/7), and > Oklahoma/Indian Territory (1897/8-present). > > My other branch, the Sigman's immigrated from Germany in 1738 to > Pennsylvania, by the early 1790's they were in Lincoln Co., NC. They moved > around some in NC, then to Rockcastle Co., KY (1840's-50's), Linn Co., KS > (1850's-1870), Benton Co., AR (1870's-present) where Rhoda Ann Sigman > married William Geo. Dibler in 1884. They came to Oklahoma in about 1902. > Some of the Dibler's were already here at that time. > > Anyone have any ideas about what tribes they might be based on the area's > where they lived? Pictures & history of both branches from my grandmother > indicates the intermarriage was long before they got to Oklahoma/Indian > Territory. I have considered Cherokee, Choctaw, and Seminole, but open to > ideas. > > Have a good day, > Jean > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com> > To: > indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:01 AM > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone > > > What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they > WERE > part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would > guess...this > was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee > withdrew > from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. > So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that > time. Fron > what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur > trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the > area where the > Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, > married > into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. > > I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to > the > intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is > "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." > > One other point I'd like to make...which I am willing to hear other > perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred > to as the > Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that > (Cherokee, > Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to > not admit > native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black > dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of > native. > This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that > this > removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern > Cherokee > Nations that depict this removal. > > Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women > and > Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in > what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction > by their > Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with > others, > non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my > Mitchell > family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the > Chattanooga > area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their > children. > There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their > background. From there they traveled to AR. > > So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, > in > areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived > (as > a tribe). > > These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were > cited > to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that > could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an > area.....but the > native blood would still have been present, even if there was > intermarriage. > > jes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 > >