Jean One of the ways to learn which tribe was to look at the tribes in the area at the time you are speaking of. The Removal took all tribes east of the Mississippi. But there IS such a thing as Black Dutch aka the Melungeons. There is still some controversy as to whether (or not) the Native Americans of the area consisting of southwest Virginia, north west North Carolina, northeast Tennessee and southeast Kentucky were genetically involved with the Melungeons...DNA studies are still inconclusive. There are plenty of places to learn of these. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Cloke" <gjcloke@msn.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Black Dutch > Hi, I am new to the list. I find this discussion fascinating. I live in > Oklahoma in the part that was Indian Territory and have been interested in > the history of the Native American tribes that were moved to this area for > a long time. I have done some research, but still don't feel I have even a > rudimentary understanding. Some of you seem to have more knowledge about > this. > > As mentioned, some families said they were Black Dutch in order to hide > their Indian heritage. My family was one of them. My paternal grandmother > told us we were Black Dutch. She even had a wooden shoe that someone had > bought as a souvenir somewhere, so I was totally sure we had Dutch > ancestors until the late 1980's. I had already started doing some research > and couldn't find anything about what part of Holland the Black Dutch were > from. I had the opportunity to met a Dutch missionary who visited our > church and asked him. He had no idea what I was talking about and told me > there was no such thing as Black Dutch. After more research I found out > that it was a cover for being Indian. We had also been told we had some > Indian, probably Cherokee. It seems that as it became less taboo to be > Indian, the family finally began admitting it, but later generations knew > so little that the tribal affiliation had been lost during the years they > were trying to keep it a secret. So now I'm tr! > ying to figure out what tribe or tribes and have had no luck on the rolls. > > This discussion on where tribes were during what period is helpful. My > ancestors that supposedly married into Indian tribes were from Germany > originally. The Dibler's came through Pennsylvania (1700's- Abt. 1855), > Ohio (Abt. 1859-1866), Indiana (1867-1870's), Arkansas (1880-1896/7), and > Oklahoma/Indian Territory (1897/8-present). > > My other branch, the Sigman's immigrated from Germany in 1738 to > Pennsylvania, by the early 1790's they were in Lincoln Co., NC. They moved > around some in NC, then to Rockcastle Co., KY (1840's-50's), Linn Co., KS > (1850's-1870), Benton Co., AR (1870's-present) where Rhoda Ann Sigman > married William Geo. Dibler in 1884. They came to Oklahoma in about 1902. > Some of the Dibler's were already here at that time. > > Anyone have any ideas about what tribes they might be based on the area's > where they lived? Pictures & history of both branches from my grandmother > indicates the intermarriage was long before they got to Oklahoma/Indian > Territory. I have considered Cherokee, Choctaw, and Seminole, but open to > ideas. > > Have a good day, > Jean > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com> > To: > indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:01 AM > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone > > > What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they > WERE > part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would > guess...this > was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee > withdrew > from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. > So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that > time. Fron > what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur > trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the > area where the > Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, > married > into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. > > I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to > the > intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is > "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." > > One other point I'd like to make...which I am willing to hear other > perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred > to as the > Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that > (Cherokee, > Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to > not admit > native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black > dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of > native. > This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that > this > removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern > Cherokee > Nations that depict this removal. > > Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women > and > Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in > what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction > by their > Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with > others, > non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my > Mitchell > family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the > Chattanooga > area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their > children. > There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their > background. From there they traveled to AR. > > So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, > in > areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived > (as > a tribe). > > These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were > cited > to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that > could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an > area.....but the > native blood would still have been present, even if there was > intermarriage. > > jes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 > >